[OB] Hoid does it again

[Calderis]

On 11/16/2017 at 9:51 AM, LiquidBlue said:

I must have missed something here. I know that cognitive shadows, even ones attached to the physical realm, find world hopping difficult or impossible, but I hadn't heard the same of a nahel bond.

It wouldn't keep Hoid from leaving, but the Spren is bound to Roshar by the mechanism you know. And the bond requires a certain level of proximity, or the bond will degrade. So he'll need to figure out how to get the Spren off world. 

Even then, he'll need another hack to make surgebinding work, as Stormlight isn't available elsewhere. 

[Alvron]

1 hour ago, shawnhargreaves said:

Hoid does crazy dangerous things all the time.  It's not every day that you get a chance to pick up a spren of one of the higher types, which has already transitioned into the physical realm, then been weakened by death of its Radient, so you can swan in and grab it without having to actually be on the regular path toward establishing a bond yourself.  I think he was just using a shortcut hack to collect a new magic (as per usual).

True but do you really see Hoid tying himself to another being even if it gives him a slight power boost?  And it will only be slight as he already has several abilities from other magic systems.  Given that it seems the bond is limited to Roshar, although I personally haven't seen anything confirming or denying it, going off world for any length of time will cause harm to the Spren and Hoid is unable to do that in most cases.  No, Hoid has a plan for that spren but it doesn't involve him bonding it.  At least that's my opinion.

[Unhinged]

20 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Even then, he'll need another hack to make surgebinding work, as Stormlight isn't available elsewhere. 

He does have Feruchemy so Nicrosil metalminds? not a perfect solution since the supply is limited but he could store a lot of stormlight for latter use and he would only have to return to Roshar once in a while to refuel.

[shawnhargreaves]

16 minutes ago, Alvron said:

if it gives him a slight power boost?  And it will only be slight as he already has several abilities from other magic systems.

We don't know what or why Hoid is up to, but collecting magic from different systems is the main thing we've seen him doing across multiple books.  I suspect that is important in ways much deeper than just a slight power boost.

 

16 minutes ago, Alvron said:

going off world for any length of time will cause harm to the Spren

Do you have a source for this?

[Alvron]

 

3 minutes ago, shawnhargreaves said:

Do you have a source for this?

No.  As I said, I haven't read or seen anything to confirm or deny it.  It does however seem to be a common belief/theme in this and other threads so there might be a source.  I just don't know of it.

[The One Who Connects]

26 minutes ago, Alvron said:

Given that it seems the bond is limited to Roshar, although I personally haven't seen anything confirming or denying it,

Make what you will of this:

Quote

Thadamin

Is this kind of bond relatively common or is what seons, spren, and night blood do little more rare among splinters. I'm specifically talking about the act of making bonds not a giving of magic powers really, that appearing to be function of Roshar.

Brandon Sanderson

The bonding is basically the same mechanic, regardless of the world, just with different flavoring. Roshar isn't the only place where the bond gives powers; it's a matter of what's stuffed into the soul, and how.

I swear there was a WoB to the effect that the bond wouldn't lose/change functionality on another world, but I can't find it at the moment. (Edit: the one I'm thinking of was about Shardblades..)

26 minutes ago, Alvron said:

going off world for any length of time will cause harm to the Spren

I'll echo Shawn's statement that you need a source for this. Edit: you replied already. To avoid double-posting:

2 minutes ago, Alvron said:

It does however seem to be a common belief/theme in this and other threads

First I've heard talk like this is you right here. Mind pointing me towards other times this has been talked about?

---

9 minutes ago, Unhinged said:

He does have Feruchemy

We don't actually know that. That WoB became outdated in light of this one.

Quote

Xyrd (paraphrased)

You've mentioned before that Hoid ends up where he needs to be.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, and usually without knowing why.

Xyrd (paraphrased)

Is chromium involved in that?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes. Well, he's not necessarily using chromium, but the underlying mechanic, yes.

We know that Hoid has access to unkeyed metalminds, so he could probably do some clever things with those.

Edited November 22, 2017 by The One Who Connects

[Rainier]

On 11/14/2017 at 10:23 PM, Bridge Boy said:

Is it just the intrigue of trying to piece together the puzzle of what his character is doing? 

Yes, it's this. What is he doing? Why is he doing it? How does he advance his goals in the few times we see him? What is he doing when he leaves?

[Subvisual Haze]

Hoid exists entirely to give this forum and people like us something to endlessly speculate about.  At the same time it's actually kind of pointless to do so because Brandon will be incredibly careful to never reveal actual critical information about him, because then the function of Hoid in the story would be ruined.

[teknopathetic]

On 2017-11-15 at 7:01 AM, lookingglass said:

Was that Elohkar's spren that he found and bonded?

My thought too.

[Toaster Retribution]

22 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

First I've heard talk like this is you right here. Mind pointing me towards other times this has been talked about?

I am pretty sure that @Alvron has gotten some stuff mixed up. We know that it is hard to get a spren off-world, which makes it hard to leave Roshar if you have a Nahel-bond. I think that Alvron might gotten this a bit wrong, which led to the misunderstanding of spren being harmed when their partner is off-world. 

As for the topic at hand, I think Hoid bonded the Cryptic. I hadn't considered the fact that it was Elhokars, but it makes a ton of sense. Given what we know of Hoid, I'd say that it is safe to say that he now is a Lightweaver.

[Watchcry]

On 11/16/2017 at 0:21 PM, kari-no-sugata said:

That was my impression. Nothing else springs to mind that makes sense. To bond a higher spren the spren has to enter the Physical Realm first. So Elhokhar just about to say the words would only have meaning if the spren in question had already entered the Physical Realm. When the bond failed due to Elhokar's death then the Cryptic would have been stuck in the Physical Realm, most likely.

Hoid and Shallan both liked Elhokar and I think it makes sense that he could have bonded a Cryptic. Is that more "birds of a feather flock together" or was there anything supernatural? I'd guess the former but who knows.

Yes it was Elhokar's spren

[emailanimal]

On 11/14/2017 at 8:19 PM, Mondaysjelly said:

I wonder whether Cryptic Lightweaving compounds with Hoid's supposed Yolen version.

Probably gives easy access to the local Investiture.

[Aditu]

Hi

On 22/11/2017 at 1:24 AM, Alvron said:

True but do you really see Hoid tying himself to another being even if it gives him a slight power boost?  And it will only be slight as he already has several abilities from other magic systems.  Given that it seems the bond is limited to Roshar, although I personally haven't seen anything confirming or denying it, going off world for any length of time will cause harm to the Spren and Hoid is unable to do that in most cases.  No, Hoid has a plan for that spren but it doesn't involve him bonding it.  At least that's my opinion.

But he says to the little spren that he has juicy truths to tell... that sounds like bonding a Cryptic, at least to me

By the way, was I the only one with the feeling that they were looking for that spren? They were destroying the wall, and Hoid find it in one the intact patches of the wall.. Maybe destroying the wall has other reason, I don't know.

[The One Who Connects]

On 11/21/2017 at 6:24 PM, Alvron said:

Given that it seems the bond is limited to Roshar, although I personally haven't seen anything confirming or denying it,

I found a WoB that says otherwise.

Quote

mooglefrooglian

You've previously mentioned that someone bonded to a Seon would get some benefits if they went to Roshar , basically that it would be treated sort of like a Nahel bond. This implies to me that something about Roshar likes to give powers from bonds. (Hi there, Honor...)

Should this be taken to mean that spren-bond based Surgebinding won't work off-world, as it's a benefit Roshar gives from having a bond? Or would it be more specific, and mean that some of the passive benefits Radiants get (visions, Windrunner squire strengths) would be lost, but Surgebinding retained?

Brandon Sanderson

Surgebinding will work off-world.

[Alvron]

Ah, it seems I was indeed wrong.    Ah well.  Live and learn.   

[coppercloud]

On 11/21/2017 at 4:49 PM, The One Who Connects said:

We don't actually know that. That WoB became outdated in light of this one.

 

My theory he has has or rather yosish people could use furochemy without metal minds . 

[Head Crabs]

On 11/14/2017 at 11:43 PM, Xenolith said:

What I found interesting is that he got rid of his Breaths. That seems to imply he wants to Nahel bond it, which would prevent him from easily leaving Roshar. So he's planning on staying there for a while.

 

He didnt get rid of his breath. He awakened the doll to lure the little girl out of the rubble, but if you read carefully he leans in close at the end to whisper in her ear that she should take care of them (them being the adoptive prents) at this point brandon makes a point of describing how hoid placed his hand on the doll again. He doesnt use the same line we constantly hear when retrieving breath, but assumedly hoid has a good amount of practice with breath and can reclaim breath non-verbally. 

[AeonaRin]

On 16.11.2017 at 10:58 PM, Alvron said:

If it was just a normal spren, why would Hoid be there given his admission that Odium would wipe out the entire city just for the chance of killing him.  No, there is something special about that spren.

Not necessarily. Venli mentions that if the Fused saw Timbre they would immediately kill her.  And she is just a normal Lightspren. It makes sense that the Fused will go to the great lengths to destroy something that will potentially give their enemy an edge. 

Edited December 24, 2017 by strumienpola

[The One Who Connects]

2 minutes ago, strumienpola said:

And she is just a normal Ashspren.

Unless Venli is a Dustbringer, she hasn't bonded an Ashspren. Prevailing theory right now is that Willshapers bond Lightspren. Either way, your overall point stands, and I agree. Nahel Spren in general are a threat to the Fused in the same way Voidspren are a threat to the KR: they represent an advantage the enemy can use.

7 hours ago, Head Crabs said:

Presumably Hoid has a good amount of practice with breath and can reclaim breath non-verbally.

Unlikely. Mental Command is granted by the Tenth Heightening, and I don't see Hoid waltzing around with Susebron levels of Breath.

I also believe that you cannot accomplish mental command without it, because I trust Vasher. Warbreaker Spoilers:

Spoiler

As one of the few people to ever reach the tenth heightening, Vasher is partially responsible for why mental command is listed under that heightening.

Vasher mentions that the God King's Priests also know how mental awakening is done, in order to teach the God Kings how to pass on their breath. That information was more than likely given to the priesthood at the end of the Manywar, when the line of God Kings began. This evidence is twofold, as I doubt that none of the priests privy to this knowledge in the past 300 years ever tried to do it themselves, even just to test that their information was accurate.

Secondly, when Vasher lets slip that the priests know how it works, Vasher specifically states that "The Tenth Heightening allows a man to Command mentally, without speaking." You could make an argument that the priests are stronger willed than that, but one of the Five Scholars is absolutely going to try and see if he can bend the rules/hack the system. And if he still says that it's granted by the Heightening, I trust him. Vasher is a pretty authoritative source, after all.

---

16 hours ago, coppercloud said:

My theory is that he, or rather Yolish people, could use Feruchemy without Metalminds. 

I don't see it. What does he store the attribute in without a Metalmind?

 

[TheWarriorPoet]

On 11/16/2017 at 9:04 PM, Blazenella said:

Hoid is a very interesting character. He is a world hopper with unknown origins who appears in nearly every cosmere book and novella. One part that's fun is just trying to find him. He is very comedic, but does it in a way that sets characters on the path to success. He once jumped into the mouth of a chasmfiend just to find out what being digested was like. He's also confirmed to be one of the oldest characters, and was probably at the shattering of Adonalsium, but didn't take a shard (Which would have made him practically a god)

Maybe Hoid is Adonalsium. He was confirmed to be present at the shattering, and since he is the only one without a shard, might mean he was the one who was source of all the shards

[AeonaRin]

13 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

Unless Venli is a Dustbringer, she hasn't bonded an Ashspren. Prevailing theory right now is that Willshapers bond Lightspren.

 

It was a mistake, I managed to see it and change it before your reply  

 

5 hours ago, TheWarriorPoet said:

Maybe Hoid is Adonalsium. He was confirmed to be present at the shattering, and since he is the only one without a shard, might mean he was the one who was source of all the shards

I find it unlikely. Author of second letter from OB states he had the opportunity to become something more and refused. If he was a god before, he would already be something more. 

[digitalbusker]

10 hours ago, TheWarriorPoet said:

Maybe Hoid is Adonalsium. He was confirmed to be present at the shattering, and since he is the only one without a shard, might mean he was the one who was source of all the shards

Tanavast bought Adonalsium a beer once?

[TheWarriorPoet]

2 hours ago, digitalbusker said:

Tanavast bought Adonalsium a beer once?

Yeah sure, why not. Since it is been said that there was a force which was opposing Adonalsium and it caused shattering and we know Hoid was present there, my theory (conspiracy theory) is HOID can either be that opposing force or Adonalsium itself. In both the cases he was more powerful than the people who now hold shards. 

2. Brandon said that hoid is very old, but he hadn't spent all these years awake or alert, is it possible that after shattering he went into some kind of hibernation for a long time and now he is awake and alert and gathering his lost powers back. 

3. He definitely hold a shard, maybe it's shard which tells him future, that's how he knows where he have to be and when. 

All conspiracy theories, so please pardon me if they don't make sense. I think I will re read liar of pertinal and see if there is something there. Though I think it's forbidden to discuss that here 

[Kered]

On 24/11/2017 at 2:10 PM, The One Who Connects said:

I found a WoB that says otherwise.

I can't find the WoB, I'm trying to search. But I'm 99.9% Brandon has said before that in the same way Nightblood can feed off both breaths and stormlight and Vasher substituting stromlight for breath, the same can also be done with the magic systems. IE, surgebinding being fueled by breaths. 

[The One Who Connects]

2 hours ago, Kered said:

I can't find the WoB, I'm trying to search. But I'm 99.9% Brandon has said before that in the same way Nightblood can feed off both breaths and stormlight and Vasher substituting stromlight for breath, the same can also be done with the magic systems. IE, surgebinding being fueled by breaths. 

Most of the magics can be hacked together. You can even put Stormlight into a Metalmind, but I don't see what any of this has to do with the post of mine that you quoted.