[OB] New oaths/ideals (I asked for them) + pics

[lonelymagician]

So, just got back from the release! So hype! But, to the point. I got two books, one for me and one for a friend, and I asked for new oaths we haven't heard yet.

"My Glory and my Shame" - this one seems strange, could just be a nice quote.

"You cannot have my pain" - possibly seems more legit. 

There was a ton of people, and it was late, so maybe these aren't what I asked for, but maybe. just something cool I guess.

 

Edited November 14, 2017 by lonelymagician
picture rotation

[Leyrann]

Isn't "You cannot have my pain" from the end of Oathbringer though?

[Kari]

The second sounds like one that has the regrowth surge IMO.

[lonelymagician]

well, I haven't finished, I literally just got back. so.........by "we don't know yet" he probably inferred "we don't know right now when we start oathbringer."

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

Isn't "You cannot have my pain" from the end of Oathbringer though?

As is My Glory and My Shame, which is the subtitle of Oathbringer (the in-world book)

[Pattern]

1 hour ago, Leyrann said:

Isn't "You cannot have my pain" from the end of Oathbringer though?

Spoiler tags for @lonelymagician.

Spoiler

This is Dalinar denying Odium.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2017 by Pattern

[Subvisual Haze]

Very cool, I think they're both variants on the same oath - accepting the failures of your past and using them to improve.

[SOM1else]

I also asked for Oaths/Ideals and he said say that as a rule he doesn’t put them in the books. I asked him to spoil the ending for me instead and he wrote this 

Spoiler

“You cannot have my pain” -Dalinar

I think it must only be a spoiler in context of the ending of the book. Or that the spoiler is who the quote is attributed to

 

 

Edited November 14, 2017 by SOM1else

[Salkara]

50 minutes ago, SOM1else said:

I also asked for Oaths/Ideals and he said say that as a rule he doesn’t put them in the books. I asked him to spoil the ending for me instead and he wrote this 

  Hide contents

“You cannot have my pain” -Dalinar

I think it must only be a spoiler in context of the ending of the book. Or that the spoiler is who the quote is attributed to

 

 

If you don't know what that's in reference to, you probably don't want to be reading the all-spoilers-allowed forum until you're done with Oathbringer.

[SOM1else]

I like to live on the edge

[Leyrann]

1 hour ago, SOM1else said:

I also asked for Oaths/Ideals and he said say that as a rule he doesn’t put them in the books. I asked him to spoil the ending for me instead and he wrote this 

  Reveal hidden contents

“You cannot have my pain” -Dalinar

I think it must only be a spoiler in context of the ending of the book. Or that the spoiler is who the quote is attributed to

In my opinion, that is the most beautiful sentence of the book.

Edit: After "No mating!"

Edited November 14, 2017 by Leyrann

[Edvarin]

I asked for an oath from the book, preferably Bondsmith or Windrunner. He gave me the actual oath, probably because I was vague. It had me guessing whos oath it would be the whole book! It actually lined up with not only Dalinars storyline, but Kaladins and Shallans too. By giving it to me, he threw me a real curveball lol.

 

[Salkara]

15 minutes ago, Edvarin said:

I asked for an oath from the book, preferably Bondsmith or Windrunner. He gave me the actual oath, probably because I was vague. It had me guessing whos oath it would be the whole book! It actually lined up with not only Dalinars storyline, but Kaladins and Shallans too. By giving it to me, he threw me a real curveball lol.

 

And yet, that's only half the oath, unless Dalinar spoke two Ideals at once.

[Edvarin]

I'm pretty sure that he added his own commentary after speaking the oath, clarifying it for himself.

[Willow]

On 22-11-2017 at 1:29 AM, Edvarin said:

I'm pretty sure that he added his own commentary after speaking the oath, clarifying it for himself.

I think we can say with relative certainty, based on the part 1 epigraphs of Oathbringer, that Dalinar can be a bit long-winded in his explanations.

[Awesomness]

So he did say 3 in a row!!

[lastofus]

I suspected that Dalinar at least swore 2 oaths at the same time. But now, there's a chance that he spoke 3. Depending on the number of oaths needed to speak, he may have done all of them. He actually ascended, and Stormfather was so surprised. What's more? Getting out of the mortal body? I don't think so.

 

[Calderis]

I don't think that these are oaths... 

At the Portland signing, Brandon said that if you wanted a personalization, and weren't sure what you wanted, he was going to write the subtitle to the in world Oathbringer. 

"My Glory, My Shame" is the standard signing thing he's writing for this tour much as he did "Hands all red" for one of the Era 2 Mistborn books. 

And "You cannot have my pain" doesn't make sense as an oath. It wasn’t spoken as an oath, it was a rejection directed at Odium. 

These don't make sense as Bondsmith oaths. 

[Windrunner]

I tend to agree with Calderis as well. I don't wish to put anyone down or anything, but I think it's highly unlikely that these are oaths, aside from "I will take responsibility for what I have done." Brandon has really ratcheted down on giving out oaths lately, wishing to save them for the books themselves. "You cannot have my pain" and "My Glory and my Shame" are both really significant lines in the book, which are things Brandon tends to use as personalizations by default. They don't read like Ideals in my opinion. Still very cool though, congratulations on getting to meet him!

[lastofus]

22 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I don't think that these are oaths... 

At the Portland signing, Brandon said that if you wanted a personalization, and weren't sure what you wanted, he was going to write the subtitle to the in world Oathbringer. 

"My Glory, My Shame" is the standard signing thing he's writing for this tour much as he did "Hands all red" for one of the Era 2 Mistborn books. 

And "You cannot have my pain" doesn't make sense as an oath. It wasn’t spoken as an oath, it was a rejection directed at Odium. 

These don't make sense as Bondsmith oaths. 

Hmm, you're probably right, but I still think these are Oaths. He, at least, swore 2 Oaths.

1. You cannot have my pain. I will take responsibility for what I have done.
2. If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man.
3. I am Unity.

Number 2 is probably to supplement the first one, so it probably isn't an Oath.

But from everything we saw before, (from the windsprens circling around Kaladin whenever he was on the verge of swearing the Fourth Ideal), you can show off something (like thrusting his arms ... ) before saying the words. So I think being Unity is an Oath.

Edited November 25, 2017 by lastofus

[Michael Portz]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

I don't think that these are oaths... 

[...]

"My Glory, My Shame" is the standard signing thing he's writing for this tour much as he did "Hands all red" for one of the Era 2 Mistborn books. 

And "You cannot have my pain" doesn't make sense as an oath. It wasn’t spoken as an oath, it was a rejection directed at Odium. 

These don't make sense as Bondsmith oaths. 

I am with @lastofus here, at least partially:

1 hour ago, lastofus said:

Hmm, you're probably right, but I still think these are Oaths. He, at least, swore 2 Oaths.

1. You cannot have my pain. I will take responsibility for what I have done.
2. If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man.
3. I am Unity.

Number 2 is probably to supplement the first one, so it probably isn't an Oath.

As I understand it, "You cannot have my pain." ist just a personalized, by chance directed-at-odium version of "I will take responsibility for what I have done.", so the former just might BE an oath; contrary to what @Calderis assumes.

I have BIG trouble seeing anything oath-y in 2 and 3, though, until somebody further enlightens me ;-)

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Michael Portz
odium-directed

[Beatsmorn]

I wonder if becoming Unity is 5th Oath to Bondmiths like becoming Law is 5th Oath of Skybreakers?

This book changed what I thought about Oaths. I thought one becomes a KR at Oath 3 and full Radiant at Oath 5 originally, but it looks for me more like this for this moment:
- 1st Oath - fortifies bond with spren, one begin becoming Knight Radiant
- 2nd Oath - you're not yet Radiant, but already Surgebinder fully bonded to spren
- 3nd Oath - you become KR, you receive your Shardblade for most Orders
- 4th Oath - that's where most KR end their progress, you possible receive Shardplate and increase in powers on that level
- 5th Oath - ultimate Oath, only few KR reaches this Oath, it's about becoming one with what your Order represents

[Darvys]

@Beatsmorn For the 4th and 5th you can't take the Skybreakers as an example, as their mad Herald patron is preaching that you can't trust your own mind and judgement which goes completely opposite to what their 5th ideal demands. I can't say if in the past all Radiants got there eventually, but i'm sure it wasn't nearly as rare an event as the Masters made it sound.

[lastofus]

3 hours ago, Michael Portz said:

As I understand it, "You cannot have my pain." ist just a personalized, by chance directed-at-odium version of "I will take responsibility for what I have done.", so the former just might BE an oath; contrary to what @Calderis assumes.

I have BIG trouble seeing anything oath-y in 2 and 3, though, until somebody further enlightens me ;-)

 

@Michael Portz

I have some trouble finding the proper words as English isn't my native tongue, so I probably would do a bad job. Let's see if I can show my reasons.

Dalinar had a vision about Nohadon in which Nohadon was a surgebinder and actually talked to Dalinar in the end.

Quote

“You’ve said the oaths,” Nohadon called. “But do you understand the journey? Do you understand what it requires? You’ve forgotten one essential part, one thing that without which there can be no journey.” The monsters slammed fists toward Dalinar, and he shouted. “What is the most important step a man can take?”

It can mean 2 things:

1. Either it's something that all Bondsmiths experience. The thing only related to Bondsmiths that WoR (in-book) referred to. (Probably not. It's too generic).
2. Somehow, Dalinar's troubled mind created that experience (out of the book) to help him understand his path.

I think it's the second one. Which the message is that "if a man fall and don't rise again, his journey is at his end (Oathbringer preface)", which again means that "the most important step in your journey is always the next one", and so the oath, "If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man.", meaning that I swear to continue the journey no matter how many times I fall, the only thing that matters is that I will learn from my mistakes.

Is it not enough for an Oath?

 

36 minutes ago, Beatsmorn said:

I wonder if becoming Unity is 5th Oath to Bondmiths like becoming Law is 5th Oath of Skybreakers?

This book changed what I thought about Oaths. I thought one becomes a KR at Oath 3 and full Radiant at Oath 5 originally, but it looks for me more like this for this moment:
- 1st Oath - fortifies bond with spren, one begin becoming Knight Radiant
- 2nd Oath - you're not yet Radiant, but already Surgebinder fully bonded to spren
- 3nd Oath - you become KR, you receive your Shardblade for most Orders
- 4th Oath - that's where most KR end their progress, you possible receive Shardplate and increase in powers on that level
- 5th Oath - ultimate Oath, only few KR reaches this Oath, it's about becoming one with what your Order represents

I don't know where, but I remember something like "You cannot bypass the Oaths". So like for example, if you're a Windrunner, you have to first swear to protect everyone, then swear that you don't distinguish between who you should be protecting.

So, either Dalinar swore

all the previous Oaths, or the final one cannot be "I am Unity". And of course there's a chance that Bondsmiths only have 3 or 4 Oaths to say. So what do you choose?

As I've said previously, I think Dalinar spoke at least 2 Oaths, possibly 3. 

 

 

22 minutes ago, Darvys said:

@Beatsmorn For the 4th and 5th you can't take the Skybreakers as an example, as their mad Herald patron is preaching that you can't trust your own mind and judgement which goes completely opposite to what their 5th ideal demands. I can't say if in the past all Radiants got there eventually, but i'm sure it wasn't nearly as rare an event as the Masters made it sound.

 That mad Herald is actually swore the 5th himself. Even if he doesn't trust his mind to be the law, he will accept the choice he will eventually make.

Edited November 25, 2017 by lastofus

[Beatsmorn]

4 hours ago, lastofus said:

@Michael Portz

I have some trouble finding the proper words as English isn't my native tongue, so I probably would do a bad job. Let's see if I can show my reasons.

Dalinar had a vision about Nohadon in which Nohadon was a surgebinder and actually talked to Dalinar in the end.

It can mean 2 things:

1. Either it's something that all Bondsmiths experience. The thing only related to Bondsmiths that WoR (in-book) referred to. (Probably not. It's too generic).
2. Somehow, Dalinar's troubled mind created that experience (out of the book) to help him understand his path.

I think it's the second one. Which the message is that "if a man fall and don't rise again, his journey is at his end (Oathbringer preface)", which again means that "the most important step in your journey is always the next one", and so the oath, "If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man.", meaning that I swear to continue the journey no matter how many times I fall, the only thing that matters is that I will learn from my mistakes.

Is it not enough for an Oath?

 

I don't know where, but I remember something like "You cannot bypass the Oaths". So like for example, if you're a Windrunner, you have to first swear to protect everyone, then swear that you don't distinguish between who you should be protecting.

So, either Dalinar swore

all the previous Oaths, or the final one cannot be "I am Unity". And of course there's a chance that Bondsmiths only have 3 or 4 Oaths to say. So what do you choose?

As I've said previously, I think Dalinar spoke at least 2 Oaths, possibly 3. 

 

 

 That mad Herald is actually swore the 5th himself. Even if he doesn't trust his mind to be the law, he will accept the choice he will eventually make.

1st Oath: "Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination." 

2nd Oath: " I will unite instead of divide [...]"

3rd Oath: "I will take responsibility for what I've done" 

4th Oath: "If I am to fall, I will rise each time as a better man" 

5th Oath: "I am Unity" 

How I understood it. 

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Beatsmorn