Leyrann

[OB] Mayalaran

440 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

The issue is that she tells herself that's what should have been if her mother lived. We have seen no reference, ever, to what her life was like before, other than from pattern speaking of her illusions. And in those cases, she went dissociative and blanked out. 

She states certain things about everyone - her father laughing, Helaran never leaving, and then she gets to her mother and says 'mother loves me', which for me indicates she considers that to be untrue in her the real life. No other person of her family is explicitly said to love her, that seems to be the given about anyone, but her mother.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there's evidence it takes a lot less to be broken than we think. First, Teft and his spren have this conversation. 

Quote

“I’m broken.”

“Who isn’t? Life breaks us, Teft. Then we fill the cracks with something stronger.”

Earlier, Renarin showed Adolin an image of himself   

Quote

A pulse of Radiance washed through Adolin, and for an instant he saw himself perfected. A version of himself that was somehow complete and whole, the man he could be.

I think the fact that Adolin isn't this perfect version of himself means he has some spiritweb cracks. 

7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

I think the fact that Adolin isn't this perfect version of himself means he has some spiritweb cracks. 

Could be, could be not. sDNA is still a very mysterious topic. If it happens though, it is a solid piece of foreshadowing.

Edited by SLNC
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nobody in six pages brought up him carrying around his mother's necklace?

Or refusing to name his sword for years because it was not her real name?

"I will remember those who have been forgotten."

He is basically holding a neon "I am an Edgedancer!" sign.

Dalinar even seems to see his very plate on an edgedancer in a vision.

13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Mahoka those points weren't brought up, because many of us have discussed the possibility of Adolin becoming an Edgedancer for months/years. That said, I agree with your point.

On "Adolin's plate" in the Purelake vision, that was a Dustbringer, as shown by the plate color,combined with its use of abrasion to move through the water. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a weird thought today with regard to "accelerating" the obviously developing bond between Adolin and Mayalaran, but it hit a snag because I momentarily forgot that Dalinar doesn't directly have access to Gravitation as a Surge. :P  That said, I wonder if he can do one thing:

Induce Spiritual Gravitation via a Windrunner or Skybreaker.

The italics are the key point here, because I'm wondering if he can accelerate the process, but it requires numerous conditions (and people) in place.  Spiritual Gravitation seems to me a means of inducing Connection between the affected objects/people/spren.  Why not Spiritual Adhesion?  It seems like a forceful method, whereas a Spiritual Lashing could at least allow for some gradation to the attraction between the two.  It still forces the issue, but the pace could be what matters.  A very soft bump rather than a head-on collision, so to speak.

 

Alternatively, he might be able to use Spiritual Tension to sculpt Identity so that Maya and Adolin are compatible, but Tension is still somewhat mysterious, especially with respect to the Spiritual.

Edited by dvoraen
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

During re-read of Adolins battle with the thunderclast aside from the increased bond and perception of Maya, Blade forming in 7 heartbeats ( or less)   there is this mention of sliding. 

Quote

Adolin’s only advantage, other than his Blade, was his ability to react faster than the thing. It swung for the next building beyond him, trying to smash it before he got inside— but he was already doubling back. He ran underneath the monster’s swing, sliding on the chips and dust as the fist passed narrowly overhead.

OB (pp. 1164-1165). Kindle Edition.

@Mahoka, those are good points,  there are also at least 2 times that I have found in previous books where Adolin himself mentions that he listens. 

Edited by FollowYourMuse
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really hope Adolin saves Maya and becomes an Edgedancer. Just imagine the Adolin/Lift training montage.

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate to bring it up, but the only Edgedancer we know has a sword  who doesnt like hurting people. Adolin is a murderer who is glad he killed Sadeas. 

I'm not saying there isn't some possibility of edgedancery-ness going on but given the way Wyndle acts I'd be surprised if a cultivationspren would be comfortable bonding someone who feels no remorse for killing someone. I mean, it doesn't rule it out if Adolin does end up regretting his actions but is it not likely that he would need to do so before Maya can bond him? 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, PhineasGage said:

I hate to bring it up, but the only Edgedancer we know has a sword  who doesnt like hurting people. Adolin is a murderer who is glad he killed Sadeas. 

I'm not saying there isn't some possibility of edgedancery-ness going on but given the way Wyndle acts I'd be surprised if a cultivationspren would be comfortable bonding someone who feels no remorse for killing someone. I mean, it doesn't rule it out if Adolin does end up regretting his actions but is it not likely that he would need to do so before Maya can bond him? 

All Spren are different. Cultivation is not always non-violent. Farming is among the most violent acts mankind perpetrates. It causes massive amounts of damage to the environment. We've cultivated entire ecosystems out of existence to make more food land where we cultivate crops we've engineered over centuries to be nothing like what it was. And nature in and of itself is cultivated by violence. Plants and animals both. 

Some cultivation Spren are going to be more ok with violence than others. (Beyond that Adolin does feel bad about what he did, but he knows it was necessary and justified. Sadeas murdered his friends. Tried to kill him and his father. And admitted he would do so again. And again. And again. So he knows that what he did was right. He acted to give voice to the soldiers Dalinar's honor wouldn't give voice to. The dead who had been betrayed.)

And Wyndle wants to be a shardblade. He was whining to tell Lyft what to do without breaking the rules. But Lyft is hard to influence. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adolin prefers dueling instead of outright combat, and he has really only killed one 'man'.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, PhineasGage said:

Adolin is a murderer who is glad he killed Sadeas.

He might be glad Sadeas is gone, but he is not glad he killed him. It solves a lot of problems, and that's what he's glad about, but he clearly feels guilty about it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was asked, and the answer was that the Edgedancer would be okay with what Adolin did.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/17/2017 at 11:25 AM, Vianki said:

Folks are saying this possibility is too complicated. Occam's razor and whatnot. But is it?

Possible Theories

1. Maya's Radiant is a Herald - This would mean that individual is still alive and on the physical plane. This makes it much less complicated for Adolin to find them and reconnect.
2. Adolin has to find Maya's original wielder in the spiritual realm to re-forge the connection (I need to fine the WoB for this...)
3. /hand waves/ Dalinar magically connects them (seems cheap to me)
4. Adolin somehow says his Words exactly the same as the original wielder, ala -  "there was also a WoB that said he'd have to say the exact same words as Maya's original wielder." - but I'd need to fine the WoB on that as well. 

Of those options, 1 actually seems like the least complicated to me. Then again, this is a very long series and 2. could make for a great story-arc with room for lots of exposition. 

(apologies if I did quoting and spoilers wrong. This is my first complicated post. ) 

As to (1), you don't need to find the original owner of the blade to revive a deadeyes-spren, iirc. It's just that the easiest way of reviving a deadeyes is for a radiant to progress to their next Ideal within their order. (I have no idea if any fifth-level radiants who "kill" their Spren this way have an easy shot at reviving them. I would assume not, and that once you're at the fifth level you need to be very careful about staying someone who can keep your spren alive)
 

This is the most relevant WoB: (And because it's a perennial curiosity at signings, there are also: one involving a cut off guess about the spiritual realm, which might be trying to find the ghost of their previous Knight, and somehow taking custody of their oaths for them? And this one that swearing another oath is "the traditional way" to revive a dead-eyes spren, and one suggesting that deadblades and zombie elantrians are similar magical situations)

Quote

Kaladin al'Thor

I noticed my last time reading Words of Radiance that there were several times-- vines that were on Adolin's shardblade as he summoned it. So I was wondering if maybe the Radiant who used it had was an Edgedancer?

Brandon Sanderson

You are right.

Kaladin al'Thor

You mentioned before that it would be possible to revive a dead shard[blade], but it would be very difficult--

Brandon Sanderson

Very difficult.

Kaladin al'Thor

Like I think what you said is that it would have to be the same person that broke the bond?

Brandon Sanderson

That would be the-- Yeah.

Kaladin al'Thor

So if it was an Edgedancer's blade if he made those same oaths could potentially he…

Brandon Sanderson

That would most likely not be enough. Something else would have to happen. Good guess though.

My interpretation, given Kaladin's experience with Syl in WoR, is that the cut off bit, where he says "That would be the-- Yeah." is Brandon stopping himself from revealing too much information/over-complicating the answer by saying that would be the easiest/best-known way.

He doesn't rule out that there's another way for Adolin to revive a dead blade that involves re-swearing the Edgedancer oaths and taking other additional steps. We just don't know for sure yet how that would be possible, and he's said quite clearly that to date, everyone would think it's impossible, so I'd say he's definitely setting Mayalaran up for revival now, but he's also giving this plenty of time so as to continue the arc of Adolin feeling like he doesn't deserve Shallan and doesn't know what to do with himself around so many Radiants.

I think @SLNC's point about Adolin not being mentally broken enough to be a Radiant, yet, as far as we can tell, is probably accurate. This doesn't permanently rule him out though. If the poor guy starts developing a complex about the only one in his family not yet a Radiant, that might even be enough to do it if he takes it badly enough, or he could be tortured by Odium's fanclub, or Shallan could leave him, or all sorts of things. I'd say wait and see where he goes on this one, especially as there are several clues that Brandon is setting up his journey in a way that this will be an option.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was definitely some specific talk about Bondsmiths and their powers over Connection at the end of the book. I believe Dalinar is going to break the Connection the dead spren had to the dead KR and create a new Connection between Adolin and Maya so that Adolin can then say the oaths and revive Maya.

Edited by The Invested Beard
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And don't you guys who keep saying Adolin isn't broken enough. How do you measure that? Do you think someone should be near dysfunctional in order to qualify for radianthood? 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Mahoka said:

Nobody in six pages brought up him carrying around his mother's necklace?

Or refusing to name his sword for years because it was not her real name?

"I will remember those who have been forgotten."

He is basically holding a neon "I am an Edgedancer!" sign.

Dalinar even seems to see his very plate on an edgedancer in a vision.

if you mean the 'purelake' vision, the knight is a dustbringer, the vivid red color of the plate point in that direction (edgedancer had white-pearl color)

and in that regard adolin in a full white plate will be became the ultimate white knight...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, The Invested Beard said:

There was definitely some specific talk about Bondsmiths and their powers over Connection at the end of the book. I believe Dalinar is going to break the Connection the dead spren had to the dead KR and create a new Connection between Adolin and Maya so that Adolin can then say the oaths and revive Maya.

Dalinar may be involved, but it's much too narratively cheap for the answer to simply be "Adolin holds hands with Dalinar who Connects him to his blade, poof of stormlight and done." Adolin needs to have thoroughly earned doing this thing that every Radiant and Spren think is impossible before it happens, IMO, and that means doing it the hard way. All of his treating his blade like a person has only got him 20% of the way there already, and he's long-established that tradition. Dalinar should be little more than a bridge in this process, if he's involved at all- the rest is Adolin's hero's quest.

Also, as the reticence of many Spren to bond new Knights is around their fear of a repeat desolation and their despair at how the humans have killed their relatives, showing that the deadeyes spren can be revived is an important step to convincing the relevant Nahel spren to bond more humans so that Dalinar's faction of radiants can hold off Odium successfully for at least, say, the next two books. I expect Adolin to achieve this in Book 5.

22 minutes ago, Aleksiel said:

And don't you guys who keep saying Adolin isn't broken enough. How do you measure that? Do you think someone should be near dysfunctional in order to qualify for radianthood? 

For a mistborn (era 1) comparison:

 

Elend had to be abused, ie. savagely beaten, at the orders of his father in order to be broken enough to have Snapped. Radiants will need to have experienced some level of psychological trauma, although perhaps not quite as extreme, before being chosen. We didn't find out about it immediately, but when we did, it not only made him a more sympathetic character who seemed less spoiled.

For SA examples, Teft is a drug addict. Lyn's selection as a squire follows her feeling severely oppressed by gender norms and constantly penned in as a scribe. Jasnah has that and there are indicators that she may have suffered some sort of relationship- or sexual- trauma or abuse. Shallan is literally lying to herself about who she is, and Kaladin is a depressive ex-slave with a chip on his shoulder about the entire structural power dynamic of his home country. Dalinar murdered his own wife, was an addict to supernaturally enhanced emotions, and then had his memories edited to forget about both, before almost dooming the entire world because of it. The lowest bar of all of these is Lyn's, and that's a bar Adolin has not been seen on-screen to clear yet. There's hardly even any emotional fallout yet from his murder of Sadeas, not that it might not be coming. (having him be prosecuted for it, or called out and dueled by Ialai's champion, would be a good start to upsetting him enough...)

I'm not saying he isn't already broken enough and we just don't know it. I am saying we don't know him to be broken enough, yet, but that this doesn't permanently rule him out, because he could have simply not thought about his trauma/issues/etc... on camera, like Jasnah normally doesn't, or because they could be yet to come, and make him even more interesting. I am open to Adolin developing in new and exciting ways. :) I've laid out a few of them already. But I challenge you to name something that clearly exceeds Lyn's struggles that Adolin has clearly referred to going through in any of the three books so far. I'll wait for a quote or a tag, but I expect you won't find anything worth replying to me with. (edit: to be clear, I'm perfectly open to it being a different type of trauma than any of these, it just needs to be of comparable emotional import to one of the similar cosmere examples, IMO. Being comparable to a full Knight Radiant is probably best, as it's quite possible the degree to which you need to be "broken" varies by magic system)

Edited by Ari
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Aminar said:

Some cultivation Spren are going to be more ok with violence than others. (Beyond that Adolin does feel bad about what he did, but he knows it was necessary and justified. Sadeas murdered his friends. Tried to kill him and his father. And admitted he would do so again. And again. And again. So he knows that what he did was right. He acted to give voice to the soldiers Dalinar's honor wouldn't give voice to. The dead who had been betrayed.)

Hmm I disagree - Syl, (i believe in tWoK) tells Kaladin that "all spren are basically the same person). They vary a good deal less than humans. Secondly, Adolin is not remorseful he says so directly to Dalinar (I don't have my book on me atm but it is something like "and I'm glad I did"). And I also disagree that killing Sadeas was "right". Kaladin didn't do it - and his sense of right and wrong is probably good deal more acute than Adolin's given his bond to Syl. Dalinar didn't want it done - yes it may have made things easier in the short term but would Amaram have ended up on the field of battle commanding all of Sadeas' troops if Sadeas had been alive? Possibly, though I think it unlikely. That means that Adolin played right into Odium's hand.

Additionally, I would argue that murder is never justified. He was the aggressor here. What he does here is as unforgivable as Amaram killing Kaladin's men, and even Amaram seems to have struggled with guilt over this - which Adolin isn't. The closest he gets to guilt is that he feels he has let his father down. And he has.

I think people are being too lenient on Adolin because he is "the good guy". 

Additonal thoughts:

2 hours ago, ScavellTane said:

Adolin prefers dueling instead of outright combat, and he has really only killed one 'man'.

Erm.... yeah because if its only one murder thats not so bad? And whatever you say about Sadeas, murder really isnt the answer. 

2 hours ago, Leyrann said:

He might be glad Sadeas is gone, but he is not glad he killed him. It solves a lot of problems, and that's what he's glad about, but he clearly feels guilty about it.

Um Here is the quote: "I'm not sorry for what I did - and I'd do it again, right now". That's not remorseful. I don't see guilt about the murder, he only feels bad because he thinks he's let his dad down.

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

This was asked, and the answer was that the Edgedancer would be okay with what Adolin did.

Evidence please? I know it was said that some orders would be ok with this, is it confirmed that the Edgedancers are amongst them?

Edited by PhineasGage
Additional thoughts
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Ari said:

I'll wait for a quote or a tag, but I expect you won't find anything worth replying to me with.

Seems you have made up your mind, this doesn't exactly sound inviting, but I will give you a list of things about Adolin:

  • Was neglected in favor of his brother, which he possibly saw as being unloved, because small children do not have the experience to interpret it accordingly and we know he felt jealous of Renarin
  • Lost his mother young
  • His father hated him for a while
  • He didn’t want to be a soldier
  • The burden of huge responsibility has been on his shoulders since young age
  • He gave up on his passion – dueling – to appease his father
  • Even in battle he seeks something of an equal duel, because slaughter makes him sick
  • He lost thousands of men, some close to him
  • He didn’t have any meaningful relationship with his peers until recently  – no friendships and no romance he could manage to keep, that points towards some serious issues
  • He literally considered his taylor to be the most trustworthy person in Kholinar, comic value aside, that's pretty said if you think about it
9 minutes ago, Ari said:

But I challenge you to name something that clearly exceeds Lyn's struggles

I think a number of the things I listed exceed Lyn's struggles, however you clearly disagree. Adolin has to adhere to social norms, too. Granted those are flashier, it doesn't mean he truly wanted them, he spend his life so far trying to please his father. He's put aside his own desires to be the perfect son, soldier and prince. 

Also, you missed Elhokar in your sort of analysis and his main issue seemed to be that he isn't as good a ruler as his father. 

7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Adolin broken enough? Well, that's been asked and gotten RAFO'd: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/26-lucca-comics-and-games-festival/#e4573

I think it's likely that Adolin is broken enough but we'll have to wait and see. In Ym's POV it seems that the only dark thing in his past is an old murder. If we consider a possible (made up) "brokenness" scale and say that 5-10 is the "Goldilocks zone" where they're broken enough to form a stable Nahel bond but not so broken that they can't cope or not broken enough, then I think the likes of Kaladin, Shallan and Dalinar are around 10 on this scale while Adolin might be around 5 currently. Adolin took enough injuries in OB that he was healed by Renarin 3 times. He's had to deal with his mother being killed, his uncle being assassinated, his father being a drunk, his father possibly going insane.  He was definitely suffering from stress about Sadeas (both before and after Sadeas was killed). He also thinks the worst moment in his life is when Sadeas abandoned the Kholins at the end of tWoK and he suffered from the death of many friends. At the end of OB he sees the devastation of his home and knows that he failed there. We don't really know what he was going through but he was clearly very stressed at the time when Shallan had dropped into the chasms - he felt he had abandoned her (to save Dalinar).

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, PhineasGage said:

I think people are being too lenient on Adolin because he is "the good guy". 

What do you do when your judiciary system lets murderers go free ? When thousands of men die and the one responsible admits he isn't done ? Let him do as he pleases as you begin a discourse hoping to change your society ? Would you have been more confortable if they had gone to war against Sadeas, resulting only in more innocent deaths ? It's easy for us to pat ourselves on the back with our lofty morality because we assume we live in just socities.

11 minutes ago, PhineasGage said:

And I also disagree that killing Sadeas was "right". Kaladin didn't do it - and his sense of right and wrong is probably good deal more acute than Adolin's given his bond to Syl. Dalinar didn't want it done

There's a reason there a multiple orders of knights, Kaladin has a tendency to claim the moral high ground without offering an alternative solution, as evidenced by his exchange with Jasnah (i'm not defending Jasnah's suggestion here).

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Aleksiel said:

Seems you have made up your mind, this doesn't exactly sound inviting, but I will give you a list of things about Adolin:

  • Was neglected in favor of his brother, which he possibly saw as being unloved, because small children do not have the experience to interpret it accordingly and we know he felt jealous of Renarin
  • Lost his mother young
  • His father hated him for a while
  • He didn’t want to be a soldier
  • The burden of huge responsibility has been on his shoulders since young age
  • He gave up on his passion – dueling – to appease his father
  • Even in battle he seeks something of an equal duel, because slaughter makes him sick
  • He lost thousands of men, some close to him
  • He didn’t have any meaningful relationship with his peers until recently  – no friendships and no romance he could manage to keep, that points towards some serious issues
  • He literally considered his taylor to be the most trustworthy person in Kholinar, comic value aside, that's pretty said if you think about it

I think a number of the things I listed exceed Lyn's struggles, however you clearly disagree. Adolin has to adhere to social norms, too. Granted those are flashier, it doesn't mean he truly wanted them, he spend his life so far trying to please his father. He's put aside his own desires to be the perfect son, soldier and prince. 

Also, you missed Elhokar in your sort of analysis and his main issue seemed to be that he isn't as good a ruler as his father. 

The issue is that Adolin has shown no obvious pain, or signs of trying to hide his pain, about any of these things. Compared with my earlier MB example, who had a less severe experience, but clearly suffered by it.

(I'd also say you're stretching on "not wanting to be a soldier," or "giving up dueling." Adolin's preferred the duelist's path, sure, but his father gave him quite a lot of freedom to pursue it, within his responsibilities. This is a superficial problem. And don't talk to me about him trusting his tailor so much, that's just Adolin being obsessed with fashion, lol)

Some of these could absolutely be enough, if he was ever shown to respond emotionally to them- losing his mother, if he felt hated by his father, (his father did hate him, sure, but there's no evidence he bears a grudge or was profoundly hurt by this in any way) or losing so many of his men. (if he took every death personally, like Kaladin does) But he has shown no emotional impact of these struggles on-camera. I know he's a very composed person, but if he is supposed to be struggling to contain pain on one of these, he should have let his guard down to someone on-screen by now, surely? He should have talked to Renarin, or to Shallan, or to his Father, depending on the issue? When has he actually suffered for any of these?

The closest we get is his confession to not feeling like he deserves Shallan, and having murdered Sadeas, but even that confession conveyed no profound remorse or suffering. Those feelings of remorse or unworth might be deeper. But they need to be explored before we can be sure Adolin has enough to qualify, which to me says Brandon is in no hurry to have him qualify as a radiant. (partly because it's useful to have a character like Adolin, with an excuse to be in the action sequences, who truly appreciates how extraordinary what all the Radiants can do really is)

Edited by Ari
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Ari said:

And don't talk to me about him trusting his tailor so much, that's just Adolin being obsessed with fashion, lol)

Some get high on moss, other on alcohol, Adolin - on fashion.

58 minutes ago, Ari said:

if he was ever shown to respond emotionally to them- losing his mother,

He wore her pendant before every duel. Granted he had a number of other, too, so I'll accept if you don't count it.

As for physical trauma causing spirit web to crack we don't know a lot from before (he's surely been through enough battles), but he suffers continuing migraine after being beaten, which points towards concussion. Also, Maya is already attached to him and we've learned nahel bond makes the cracks wider, so it could be possible for deadeyes bond to latch to a crack and slowly widen it over time enough to break it.

58 minutes ago, Ari said:

But he has shown no emotional impact of these struggles on-camera. I know he's a very composed person, but if he is supposed to be struggling to contain pain on one of these, he should have let his guard down to someone on-screen by now, surely? He should have talked to Renarin, or to Shallan, or to his Father, depending on the issue? When has he actually suffered for any of these?

I'd say he works his emotional pain as anger - he is a firecracker and one of the ways people process their sadness and grief is though anger - he has plenty of that. He barely controls his emotional outbursts, so I really wouldn't call him composed. He also shoves down other sources of sorrow like his only supposed friend Jakamav betraying him in the 4vs1. He felt betrayed and never mentioned it anymore. In my view Adolin expresses his suffering though anger outbursts or simply not thinking about it and focusing on other things. He either explodes or takes himself out of the situation hurting him (like when he left the winehouse when he and his 'friends' were still talking to each other).

Edited by Aleksiel
4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Darvys said:

What do you do when your judiciary system lets murderers go free ? When thousands of men die and the one responsible admits he isn't done ? Let him do as he pleases as you begin a discourse hoping to change your society ? Would you have been more confortable if they had gone to war against Sadeas, resulting only in more innocent deaths ? It's easy for us to pat ourselves on the back with our lofty morality because we assume we live in just socities.

There's a reason there a multiple orders of knights, Kaladin has a tendency to claim the moral high ground without offering an alternative solution, as evidenced by his exchange with Jasnah (i'm not defending Jasnah's suggestion here).

1) You don't go and kill him - It makes you exactly the same. Besides which, the Highprinces were (albeit in a flawed way) trying to fulfil the Vengeance Pact. Sades thought he needed to do things the way he did because of Gavilar. His reasoning was flawed but he genuinely seemed to think he would get Adolin on side eventually. They didn't need to go to war - they could have managed it the way Dalinar wanted it handled - by keeping Sadeas where they could see him. Killing him only ended up making things worse - how many men died at Thaylen City because they believed that Dalinar had Sadeas killed? Secondly, I think that declaring Sadeas a murderer is not really clear. He let Dalinar get surrounded, but he didn;t hold the knife himself. He's a scheming oily, conniving bastard, but "murder" has a specific definition. 

2) We also don't know that Kaladin didn't have a sensible alternative to Jasnah because Dalinar cut the argument off. And anyway, anyone with half a brain could see that just killing a herald wouldn't solve the problem - they need to be interrogated and more information gathered before any kind of dramatic act is made.

16 minutes ago, Aleksiel said:

eems you have made up your mind, this doesn't exactly sound inviting, but I will give you a list of things about Adolin:

  • Was neglected in favor of his brother, which he possibly saw as being unloved, because small children do not have the experience to interpret it accordingly and we know he felt jealous of Renarin
  • Lost his mother young
  • His father hated him for a while
  • He didn’t want to be a soldier
  • The burden of huge responsibility has been on his shoulders since young age
  • He gave up on his passion – dueling – to appease his father
  • Even in battle he seeks something of an equal duel, because slaughter makes him sick
  • He lost thousands of men, some close to him
  • He didn’t have any meaningful relationship with his peers until recently  – no friendships and no romance he could manage to keep, that points towards some serious issues
  • He literally considered his taylor to be the most trustworthy person in Kholinar, comic value aside, that's pretty said if you think about it

Point by point:

  • Um false, Evi clearly implies that Dalinar isn't interested in Renarin because he never bothers going to see him. I think Renarin was the more neglected.
  • Yes, but he had other family members supporting him. Losing a parent is traumatic but he seems to manage it well.
  • When? I missed this, I was under the impression that Adolin gloried whenever his father praised him and that they are very close.
  • And? Besides, looking at him as a child, he definitely wanted to emulate his father. He picks up strategic thinking directly from his father.
  • What responsibility? Adolin himself says he likes not having responsibility in tWoK. He ha only just become the Highprince and he still has his dad around to ask for advice.
  • He still got to duel most of the time, he simply couldn't compete the way he wanted to. Given the way the Thrill affects the Alethi, this is probably a good thing.
  • Or he seeks the challenge. He doesnt like killing the singing Parshendi because it is too easy but before that he doesnt seem to mind too much.
  • This is true and is likely the most important thing that might have affected him, although he doesn't dwell on it the way Kaladin does it does seem to be the thing that is most likely to break him.
  • Not necessarily. His brother is his best friend. And he was playing the field. He is young enough that a lack of a long term relationship doesn't point to a problem - particularly when he is now in one anyway! 
  • Or she is the only one he can contact easily without raising suspicion given that the spanreeds to the Light-eyes in the city have gone dark. Perhaps he would have stayed with one of them if he'd been able to contact them?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.