KidWayne Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 @WhiteLeeopard I just had a thought. Every time Odium splinters a shard, it leaves behind traces (spren, aons, ghosts/cognitive shadows, etc.). So maybe we don't want to shatter Odium anywhere near Roshar. Perhaps that was why Honor went with the Oathpact (i.e. prison) instead of execution. If Odium's spren hung around of Roshar (or even Braize) I think the desolations would continue as there wouldn't be anything to prevent the Fused from coming back again and again to start trouble. Even if you dealt with the Fused, you'd still have a lot of problems with Odious spren hanging out on Roshar. Perhaps the best option is to let Odium go, and shatter him while he is on the run (kind of like how he handled Ambition)... It might be better still to kill Rayse "Scadrial style" (as opposed to splintering him) and arrange for some other Shard - who could do so in a beneficial/benevolent way - to take up Odium. I suspect that Wisdom is one of the other Shards, that would be a good candidate for merging with Odium... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemetha Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 My understanding was that the oathpact as a method of binding the voidspren to Braize was made redundant by the everstorm. They don't have to travel back to Braize now, they can go back to the everstorm and find a new host next time it passes over them. If that's the case, I don't really see a lot of value to having heralds at all. I think some heralds will join each of the sides and just be really, really experienced radiants, with some constrained immortality, but no greater role anymore. Odium just wanted him out of the way because he was in the past a strong leader, and he presents the same problem to Odium as the voidspren do to the radiants - killing them is largely redundant. Did I misread that part of the book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypatia Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 Back to Jezrien - his Honorblade should have the power of the Windrunner and more - where? Windrunningpower I see with Szeth but nothing addictional - perhaps because the original owner is still alive ( more or less). Is it important for the plot of Odium to order the same person to kill Jezrien who ends up with his blade? Without Dalinar he lacks a champion and with the acceptance for a duel he needs someone to power up relatively fast. My other question - are all Heralds feeling this death? Is Nale also passing out and is this able to change his pleadging to Odium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmithki Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 1 hour ago, WhiteLeeopard said: (if you think anything good can come of the Diagram you have a lot more faith than me) I've see the Diagram like the Kandra, a secret plan that will backstab Odium at the exact moment he needs them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteLeeopard Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 6 hours ago, Blacksmithki said: I've see the Diagram like the Kandra, a secret plan that will backstab Odium at the exact moment he needs them. Thats possible, but I've always had a deep dislike of the Diagram. Maybe because its completely without hope. Hope is the last thing that should be lost. Thus anything based on the idea that there is no hope is disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 14 hours ago, DroughtBringer said: Also, in the list of the surges it states:Adhesion: The Surge of Pressure and Vacuum I still think this is too superficial. Bondsmiths also use Adhesion and with Dalinar we see it as working with Connection (using foreign languages via Connecting to people, summoning Honor's perpendicularity via Connecting the Realms). The physical aspect of the surge might well be working with pressure und vacuum, but there is more to it. Since the surges work differently for each order, the old list of surges will have to be updated as new features appear in future books, when we see more of known Surges from Orders that have not been an item so far. Kaladin's leadership abilities also could be buffed by Connection with the group of people he leads. We see him connect very quickly with the running parshmen and also the Wall Guards in Kholinar. The last one Kaladin felt was "cheap" compared to the hard work he had to do making Bridge Four follow him. Of course, he could just be more practiced now in making people follow him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteLeeopard Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 20 minutes ago, Pattern said: Kaladin's leadership abilities also could be buffed by Connection with the group of people he leads. We see him connect very quickly with the running parshmen and also the Wall Guards in Kholinar. The last one Kaladin felt was "cheap" compared to the hard work he had to do making Bridge Four follow him. Of course, he could just be more practiced now in making people follow him. Or it could be a level 3 KR is much harder to resist than a proto radiant's spiritual gravitation and adhesion . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScavellTane Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 8 hours ago, aemetha said: My understanding was that the oathpact as a method of binding the voidspren to Braize was made redundant by the everstorm. They don't have to travel back to Braize now, they can go back to the everstorm and find a new host next time it passes over them. If that's the case, I don't really see a lot of value to having heralds at all. I think some heralds will join each of the sides and just be really, really experienced radiants, with some constrained immortality, but no greater role anymore. Odium just wanted him out of the way because he was in the past a strong leader, and he presents the same problem to Odium as the voidspren do to the radiants - killing them is largely redundant. Did I misread that part of the book? The oathpact might not bind the Ancient Singers, it may yet bind Odium. Removing the Heralds allows Odium to say on Roshar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) On 11/18/2017 at 2:19 AM, dendrophobe said: Umm, I think the actual term we used was Odiumium. Do not get me started on why this and "Harmonium" are a problem, lol. I really wish Brandon had went for "Sazedium" for the alloyed god metal for Scadrial... On 11/18/2017 at 2:20 AM, Blacksmithki said: I was mostly referencing the part where you said you needed to be on Scadrial to use hemalurgy because it came from there. Hey, just some clean up to back up your point: Reference for hemalurgy working on planets other than Scadrial:https://wob.coppermind.net/events/90-barnes-noble-b-fest-2016/#e5551https://wob.coppermind.net/events/113-utah-humanities-book-festival/#e2622 Reference (and rough timeframe) for people born on other planets already having used hemalurgy:https://wob.coppermind.net/events/224-words-of-radiance-san-francisco-signing/#e6877 And so I'm not making a huge quote-post, I'll just @KidWayne for the next bit regarding his possibilities: I'm not convinced yet that (B) is necessarily what we're seeing in that spoiler-text you talk about. Remember, the person involved is likely simply showing a visualization of what is happening, and even if they're not, we have learned in Oathbringer and from WoB that red-coloured magic doesn't necessarily simply represent Odium, but rather a corruption/repurposing of another Shard's power. Edited November 20, 2017 by Ari spoilering text relating to MB universe. Whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 On 11/18/2017 at 1:42 AM, Pattern said: I still think this is too superficial. Bondsmiths also use Adhesion and with Dalinar we see it as working with Connection (using foreign languages via Connecting to people, summoning Honor's perpendicularity via Connecting the Realms). The physical aspect of the surge might well be working with pressure und vacuum, but there is more to it. Since the surges work differently for each order, the old list of surges will have to be updated as new features appear in future books, when we see more of known Surges from Orders that have not been an item so far. Kaladin's leadership abilities also could be buffed by Connection with the group of people he leads. We see him connect very quickly with the running parshmen and also the Wall Guards in Kholinar. The last one Kaladin felt was "cheap" compared to the hard work he had to do making Bridge Four follow him. Of course, he could just be more practiced now in making people follow him. We don't really know that the language thing is a surge. It strikes me more as a resonance. I don't remember him burning stormlight in that scene and what he did with Shallan and the map seems just as related. Also remember that Bondsmiths are more than normal radiants. Their Spren Bonds are more and that implies that they gain more out of the deal(but also less). That doesn't mean that their surges do more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrophobe Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Ari said: Do not get me started on why this and Reveal hidden contents "Harmonium" are a problem, lol. I really wish Brandon had went for Reveal hidden contents "Sazedium" for the alloyed god metal for Scadrial... As for that... Spoiler Sazed didn't like how Sazedium sounds, so he decided to call it Harmonium. So it's less a continuity error, and more because a god said so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, dendrophobe said: As for that... Hide contents Sazed didn't like how Sazedium sounds, so he decided to call it Harmonium. So it's less a continuity error, and more because a god said so. Yeah, I just disagree with Brandon/"Sazed." If you pronounce it "say-ZED-ee-um," (or /seɪˈzɛdiəm/ if you can read IPA transcriptions) it sounds perfectly fine, and IIRC is within reasonable license of how Sazed is pronounced as a name, and most importantly fits the established schema of how you name god metals. (I think if you were being strict about mimicking his name exactly you'd pronounce it something like "SAYS-dee-um," (or /ˈseɪzdiəm/) from what I remember of Brandon's description of his pronunciations of Mistborn names.) This, incidentally, is why I said not to get me started. Edited November 20, 2017 by Ari spoilered the mention of specific MB stuff just to be REALLY careful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Invested Beard Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 I don't think the knife was a hemalurgic spike. From what we know, using a spike requires a superhuman ability/knowledge of the exact spot to strike (within a fraction of a millimeter or less) to pull the exact aspect you want. I don't see Moash having that ability at the point he pulls this off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsier Kenobi Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 11/17/2017 at 9:14 AM, jofwu said: It feels like an assumption to me that Jezrien is DEAD. Ash said that he was, but I felt it was implying that at least part of him was captured in the sapphire, no? I don't believe for one second we're done with Jezrien. As King of the Heralds he's too important to be gone before we even see him in action. I believe his soul has merely been trapped in the gem. He'll get out eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissy Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) That could be likely, but Jezrien still "died". He has died before, but this death is somehow very different. Edited November 25, 2017 by Vissy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormlightning Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 Ash made it pretty clear that Jezrien wasn't just trapped. Either, he died, all the way, every part of him, or the part of him that was made of Honor's Investiture was removed, and his regular spirit was killed, the investiture taken into the gem for future corrupting. Maybe the special knife separates people from their Investiture. Since Brandon has described Heralds as cognitive shadows, I'm inclined to think that if Honor's Investiture were taken from him and his physical body killed, Jezrien would find himself pulled into the Beyond. That's how he dies. Perhaps the Investiture Jezrien held is what was once called a dawnshard. For some reason yet to be determined, dawnshards are super important and now Odium has one to turn to his own purposes. Yay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) On 11/20/2017 at 5:41 AM, Aminar said: We don't really know that the language thing is a surge. It strikes me more as a resonance. I don't remember him burning stormlight in that scene and what he did with Shallan and the map seems just as related. It says outright in the book that this was a spiritual use of the adhesion surge. Edited November 25, 2017 by Calderis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyWordsmith Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 So, everyone is bringing up Hemalurgy. I have a question. Does Rayse even know Hemalurgy? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hemalurgy was specifically invented by Ruin, and Rayse has been stuck on Roshar for a long time. We have no indication that he's been to Scadrial in the past. We know it can be used off world, but you have to know how. Do we have any evidence that Rayse knows how to even use hemalurgy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatsmorn Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, FuzzyWordsmith said: So, everyone is bringing up Hemalurgy. I have a question. Does Rayse even know Hemalurgy? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hemalurgy was specifically invented by Ruin, and Rayse has been stuck on Roshar for a long time. We have no indication that he's been to Scadrial in the past. We know it can be used off world, but you have to know how. Do we have any evidence that Rayse knows how to even use hemalurgy? Probably not, but god is not limited by magic systems in what can he do. I think dagger is made from Odium divine metal and infused with primal Odium magic to his goal. I think his goal was either capturing Jezrien soul or what makes him Herald - thus glow on the gemstone in the hilt in this scene. I think glow wouldn't be shown, if dagger was just about destroying Jezrien soul. We know that Odium communicated with Autonomy and is aware of Harmony, I'm just not sure of the timeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts