Chaos

[OB] Full Book Reactions / Full Spoilers Thread

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Just now, SLNC said:

What do you mean by attuning?

attuning to Rhythms, like the listeners.

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Oh... I think you're reading too much into this. He's just describing his feelings about it.

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Just now, SLNC said:

Oh... I think you're reading too much into this. He's just describing his feelings about it.

Maybe that's because I am not a native English speaker. But I find it strange, I feel sad, but I do not find sadness in me, Does it suppose to make it poetic?

Anyway I have to read the whole series again to see how Kaladin talked about his feelings.

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2 minutes ago, lastofus said:

Anyway I have to read the whole series again to see how Kaladin talked about his feelings.

He always was pretty straightforward with them. In his inner monologue at least.

Edited by SLNC
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38 minutes ago, lastofus said:

 

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He squinted down at Shallan and Adolin, and found that he couldn’t be bitter. He didn’t feel resignation either. Instead he felt … agreement?

 

"Found that he couldn't be bitter" does not at all refer to finding bitterness. It refers to finding out that he couldn't feel bitterness from seeing what he did, in spite of expecting to have felt as such.

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What in the abyss was that gods damned pretzel of a rollercoaster.
It was enough to cease lurking for.

It was all good, but Dalinar and Szeth... Ah hells, I need to reread it.

Well...
It should be interesting to see the aftershocks here. So many theories, casually shattered or confirmed.
What shall be forged from them now.

It'll be one hell of a wait until the next book.

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They're going to lose in the next book. Calling it now. 

You can't keep winning this kind of battle forever. 

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They are already losing... They need a different approach than the Oathpact. I know that it is not dead, but it is no solution - just a band-aid.

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I bet we won't be seeing any actual solutions for a while 

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I got the feeling that theres much more to Dalinar's Unity than being an aspect of Honor. Reading it, I almost felt it was another shard completetly.

Wild caffeine induced speculation: What if the Oathpact is not about locking down Odium, but rather a process of merging the three present shards?

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Well, i need to share my first impressions that possibly arent accurate.

1)Thesis - the book is undercooked. I consider it might be the false feeling because:

a)We wait the book for 3 years!!! discussing the same theories and plot lines over and over again.

b)I read it in merely 2 days!!!

What parts of it gave me that feeling?

-Plot lines that were left in the previous books. While some of them hit hard, other felt like a missed opportunity and underplayed lines. Adolin murdering Sadeas wasnt adressed and explored enough, Helaran death by the hand of Kaladin, Ialai potential plotting, Jasnah journey and return, some potentially interesting scenes like the one when Kaladin and Co flew to Thaylenah were skipped, as well as organizational problems put before Kaladin, even the famous love triangle felt staled. He barely touched some of the themes. And given the cover of OB i really expected 4 and 5 parts to be devoted to Kholinar's siege. But thats me.

-Some characters really didnt get enough love. I missed Adolin, Renarin, sometimes Kaladin that disappeared much enough.

-I expected to see more Jasnah-Everyone dialogues, Dalinar-Kaladin dialogues, Shallan-Everyone dialogues.

As i said before, all of that might be overseen after deep and slow reread. I jumped like crazy swallowing the page after page so might miss many interesting bits that would fix the feeling i got from the book.

2)There are three plot lines i love the most:

-Dalinar.

-Kaladin.

-Elhokar.

I dont want to explain why because its really simple - they hit hard and they are amazing.

Istruggled to like Shallan's line cause it revolves around pretty specific and unique theme of mental disorder and such things dont click well with me, while the scene of Parshendi and Humans killing each other with Kaladin crying in the middle of battle hit so hard our the very basic feelings. Its just made me almost crying myself, as well as Elhokar who spoke the part of First Oath before his son and then got stabbed in the chest and eye.

3)The third and fifth parts are my favourite. Kholinar mini arc reminded me some rpg with our main characters doing quests. Overall main trio and Elhokar have a very good dynamic.

4)About love triangle. Well nothing changed. Shallan and Kaladin have literally the same thoughts about each other and Adolin they had in the end of WoR. But there are two particular scenes that support the same trend. Im pretty sure Brandon wrote them that way absolutely intentionally. That made me exclude trolling on his part. He knows what he is doing:

Shallan's reaction to Adolin:

Quote

 

Adolin glanced at the fluttering pages with the different versions of her. He reached out and hugged her, saying nothing. Which turned out to be the right thing to say.

She leaned into him, listening to his heartbeat, his breathing. She felt his warmth. So warm. Comfortable. And strikingly unfamiliar. What was this peace? This place without fear?

 

Shallan's reaction to Kaladin, couple minutes later:

Quote

 

Just ahead of him, Shallan seemed to change. It was in her bearing, the way she stopped resting lightly on one foot, and stood solidly on two feet instead. The way her posture shifted.

And the way that she seemed to melt upon seeing Kaladin, lips rising to a grin. Blushing, she adopted a fond, even eager expression.

Adolin breathed out slowly. He'd caught those glimpses from her before, and seen the sketches of Kaladin in her book, but looking at her now, he couldn't deny what he was seeing. She was practically leering.

 

Adolin let her be weak. Kaladin makes her strong.

Id actually prefer him to do more subtle but powerfull scenes like this rather than make Shallan repeat "Adolin is warm and has charming smile/Kaladin has passion and dangerous eyes" mantra all the time.

And yes, he made Adolin and Shallan go together like in WoR yet hinted on Kaladin/Shallan probably being the better idea.

Thats just first impressions, after reread i expect my view on things changed in some parts.

Edited by Harbour
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The thing that wasn't explored that I would have liked more of was the Sadeas murder affecting Adolin more- but I think that's still to come. Just because he's ok and Shallan is and Dalinar with it, doesn't mean it won't have consequences when someone finds out.

 

I'm split on the Helarán thing. On the one hand, Shallan getting over it and understanding and still hating Amaran makes complete logical sense from the POV of all involved for numerous reasons. The only slight complication is that Shallan is mentally struggling and I thought that might cause her to be more irrational about it, but in a way it's nice to have a book like this without every possible chance taken for a misunderstanding to occur (something I wish Jordan failed to take the opportunity for a little more often)

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4 hours ago, Matt Snow said:

Really loved the book, one thing I haven't seen mentioned (and maybe I'm just imagining it) is how Danilar resists Odium echos something he said when he was the Blackthorn.

Someone acuses him of being a murderer and using god/the Almighty to justify those kills, and the Blackthorn says "Shut up, I earned those kills, and you will not take them from me".

To me that sounds somewhay similar to what he told Odium, even if they're said for completely different reasons.

The way you said that made me think "STOP KILL STEALING" in a video game. Hehe.

Shallan really needs a hug. And the person who gives it to her is... Hoid? I was so confused by that, like I kept texting my friends "HE'S BEIGN NICE? WHY IS HE BEING NICE?" 
Also Cyrptid bounding time! I love that chapter ending. What happened with Hoid and Jasnah's encounter at the end of the last book? We might get deets on that in the future. I love my new baby pattern. And Hoid now being a rosharian lightweaver too? That mgiht be a reason for him spending time around Shallan, to get some info on the order. I loved the other honorspren's reactions to Sylphrena. I just lost it in giggles at the 
"It's me, the Ancient Daughter! Oh, I sure am feeling particularily capricious!" I mean I was just flat out GIGGLING FOR TEN WHOLE MINUTES hahaha.

Jasnah: The only woman with the ability to make a room full of scholars weep at her pure LOGIC BOMB. Like. Can I  get her to write my essays? Also I love the interlude girl with the romance novel. LIFT AND SZETH AND NIGHTBLOOD (Almost said Nighthound. Nighthound being a sword with the command to destroy evil would be... interesting. Not sure how he'd be able to destroy evil when he is evil) LIFT IN GENERAL. SHE HAS A STICK.

EVI. POOR EVI. I LOVE HER. POOR GIRL. Honestly total coincidence my nanowrimo story has a character named Eve and I was like... uh... And I mean DALINAR, DALINAR CALM DOWN. YOU DON'T NEED TO SET IT ON FIRE. I MEAN OKAY I SAY KILL IT WITH FIRE BUT I DON'T REALLY MEAN IT? LIKE? SERIOUSLY? CHILL?

NIGHTWATCHER AND CULTIVATION

(more reactions to come)

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In no particular order:

  • I love Lift
  • Adolin's tailor...that had me laughing so hard I had a violent coughing fit
  • Storming Elhokar
  • Maya
  • Dalinar's past...holy crap. I'd guessed some of it but still.
  • I didn't trust the Diagram from the beginning, even less now
  • Didn't see Sja-anat coming
  • Dalinar really is Odium's champ...until he suddenly isnt!
  • Odium is freaked out by Cultivation or so it seems
  • Renarin man...really do love that kid.
  • Cultivation is the boss, way more so than I thought
  • Moash needs to die and Kaladin needs to be the one who does it.
  • Bridge 4. They just make me happy.
  • And, specifically, Rock.  Dude is a freaking beast.  Strong in all the ways that matter most, strong enough to drop his personal taboo to save a life and end a monstrosity.

and a lot more.  Those are just the ones that are still weighting (that's on purpose, it's a lot more than just weighing) on me at this current moment.  My bullet point list would be around 100 long if I listed ALL of it

Dalinar Ascending just blew me away - at least, Odium seemed to recognize him as such and that's sufficient for me at this point.  I thought someone would reassemble/become Honor but not this soon.  The whole combat sequence at the end was pretty gripping.  Jezrien dying in totality was kinda horrifying.  Odium's hunting the Heralds now; I'd guess trying to end the Oathpact in truth before Dalinar is in full possession of his new strength.  SOMEONE SAVE TALN.  I need to stew on the epigraphs some more. 

Took me around 7 hours.  I've reread some sections already.  I'll probably reread the whole thing 4-5 times before the year is out.  It is that good.  Are there some things that could have done with more screen time or detail? Probably, yeah.  Then we'd have an 1800 page book and that's a little much even for me...I'm content. No, I'm happy. 

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Now, Shallan and Adolin was pretty much set in stone untill something will happen in the next books. Yet there are many interesting bits left that make me feel Brandon will continue to explore and develop in the future. Its essential for a top-class writer Sanderson is.

I dont know how much the Shalladin affinity infuences my prism i analyze the scenes through, but i try to avoid it. Reading the last chapters i came to conclusion that:

1)Brandon tried to set that Shallan really loves only Adolin while Veil liked Kaladin. Yet that scene consist of only both Adolin's hesitation and realization of harsh truth and Shallan's rush to feel herself normal and stable. And once again Adolin talks about her as about the prize. And still Shallan has no time to tell him about her past in a 1200 pages story.

2)Kaladin's thoughts and words on the top of roof. Here i finally got the feeling that Kaladin is simply more than the love relationships. He has a Great Deeds to be made in the future. He has such a monumental presence in the last chapters and his heavy thoughfull words clearly gave me the vibe that Kaladin is man who can simply overgrow the love triangles. I really realized i would be fine if he will be alone forever. He fits his role.

There is really much of Shallan-Adolin-Kaladin stuff left untouched and unsolved. One may say that sometimes it doesnt need to be touched and solved, that people sometimes tend to live with unsolved issues happy, and i see where their point come from and accept it. Yet i feel that Brandon intentionally made it absolutely clear that Shallan and Adolin is the real ship and intentionally made it look NOT perfect.

One thing i definitely dont get and dislike is that since when its Veil who like Kaladin but not Shallan? BS so intensively force that idea and that confused me. Shallan seemd Shallany Shallan when she was attracted to Kaladin in the Chasms and after them. And Shallan claiming "its just a Veil" sounded like a lie because of that confusing "out of nowhere" idea. Thats weird.

Well, i guess we need the new thread about these three happy friends.

Edited by Harbour
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What exactly did Dalinar ascend into? Realmatically speaking. 

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@winter devotion, assuming I understand the question properly, he's Honor now.  He was able to force Honor's perpendicularity to manifest at a certain place, able to recharge gems with Stormlight though it is difficult for him...for all intents and purposes he is now Honor.  Or enough of a splinter of Honor to freak out Odium and be able to do some things Tanavast could do while he held the Shard I suppose.  I'd guess that those bits of Honor that suffuse the Stormfather will remain so, and so forth.

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Just now, Mulk said:

@winter devotion, assuming I understand the question properly, he's Honor now.  He was able to force Honor's perpendicularity to manifest at a certain place, able to recharge gems with Stormlight though it is difficult for him...for all intents and purposes he is now Honor.  Or enough of a splinter of Honor to freak out Odium and be able to do some things Tanavast could do while he held the Shard I suppose.  I'd guess that those bits of Honor that suffuse the Stormfather will remain so, and so forth.

Could a bondsmith bond Dalinar now? Hahaha

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Bondsmiths could never bind Honor.

But yeah, he seems to be a small part of Honor now. Nowhere near in power, but it's a start in undoing the Splintering, I would argue.

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14 minutes ago, Harbour said:

Well, i guess we need the new thread about these three happy friends.

Feel free to create one. I will participate. I just don't want to clog this thread with it. I understand that some find it uninteresting.

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2 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

Bondsmiths could never bind Honor.

But yeah, he seems to be a small part of Honor now. Nowhere near in power, but it's a start in undoing the Splintering, I would argue.

Yeah, Bondsmiths can bind cognitive shadows and he's not one of those. (now i'm imagining someone binding kelsier while he's in cognitive shadow form with a manipulation of connection and stuff... that'd be... interesting...)

kelslier sword. 

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I noticed an odd little thing. 'Heart of the Revel' basically means 'Life of the Party', and now I can't think of it any other way.

Also, does anyone know when the full list of epigraphs will be posted on the Coppermind? I want to read through them again without flipping back and forth in the book.

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4 minutes ago, Kalinovsky said:

Also, does anyone know when the full list of epigraphs will be posted on the Coppermind? I want to read through them again without flipping back and forth in the book.

If you want, you can add them yourself. The Coppermind can be edited by everyone.

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@Harbour It seemed pretty clearly implied to me that all three figmented projections of Shallan are pieces of who she really is but not actually her true self and that includes the projection of herself that we are introduced to as she is seeking Jasnah in WoK. 

So to me, as touchy feely as the ending was where Adolin is able to identify Shallan's "true self" it just further emphasizes that he doesn't understand her at.

But in fairness to Adolin, how in damnation could he? Her personal issues are shrouded in more mystery and pattern mmmmmming lies than the secrets of all the mad heralds combined. 

Adolin is a good dude. Quite frankly, he and Kaladin both deserve better than Shallan can offer in her current state.

I'd hate the storyline where one of them saves her from her personal issues. Those are her issues, they cannot have them; she needs to save herself.

@SLNC My bad. I'll look for the new thread.

Edited by Bridge Boy
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