[OB] Full Book Reactions / Full Spoilers Thread

[splinters]

I finished OB on Sunday, but it took me a few days before I was able to get here. I'm a periodic lurker and very rarely post, but this book got me pretty excited.

Initial reactions:

Dalinar's backstory leading up to him being confronted by Odium was heart-wrenching. I really thought for a second that Dalinar would become an incredibly powerful and evil Blackthorn--maybe even bond the thrill unmade (don't remember its actual name off the top of my head). I had some serious heart palpitations during this scene, and it didn't help that my son was having a minor surgery at the time. His first battles gave me the chills--especially when he was about to kill Gavilar and when he chased down that archer. When he showed himself to be a horribly neglectful father, it made me sick (especially since I was wondering if that had lead Renarin to bonding an Odium spren). Also, his excommunication scene was pretty powerful to me too.

Teft's story was really heart-wrenching. It is too bad that becoming a KR doesn't help with psychological issues (I wonder why the bond doesn't help? I mean we do know that at least a large portion of psychological issues are heavily related to chemical imbalances in the brain.

Szeth and Nale both are experiencing symptoms that commonly occur to people leaving cults (anyone else here watch the path?). Having grown up in a fairly controlling religion, I totally understand why neither of them trusts their own judgment and why it would be easier to simply obey _____. Nale reason for Odium makes sense with the whole divine mandate from conquest argument, but it is still stupid. And although I understand why Szeth doesn't (thank you Nightblood!), I think the biggest plot hole was why he chose to follow Dalinar, and why nobody seemed to have a problem with the assassin in white as head body guard of Dalinar. The best reason I can think of is because his death seemed so important to Mr. T and because of the way he fought in WoR.

Lift+Szeth+Nightblood=best threesome in any Sanderson book yet.

Does anyone else think it is crazy cool how Lift was able to hack Dalinar's visions and that she was able to make it through the Thrill to Dalinar without any issues? I wonder what her exact relationship with the cognitive/spiritual realm(s) is/are.

I really liked where the plot took Kal. I think it was a big deal for him to learn to be confident in himself. I mean, he was acting like and storming hanging out with lighteyes! That's a big deal! I'm also happy that Brandon didn't push him into swearing his next ideals... I really didn't feel like he was quite ready yet. I also don't think that his 4th ideal is quite as straightforward as "I accept that I can't save everyone, because I'm not a god."

Shallan was wonderful in much of this book. She continues to be one of the most interesting characters to me. I loved her development in the first half of the book and her in the battle scene. I really missed her banter with pattern in the last half of the book though. I am also unsurprised that she decided to go with Adolin. Although, I personally think all three of them should just get together. I mean Shallan could handle it, Adolin seems a bit gay/bi, and Kal could use a little extra love. But I think something like that would be a bit of a stretch for Brandon. Really glad he included a gay couple in this book and that it isn't a big deal (even though it is really sad that one of them dies).

I really didn't see much development from Adolin, other than getting to know just how obsessive he is about his clothing. I mean he is a high prince and he knows how to sew? I was also happy to see his relationship with his shardblade/spren grow. I'm hoping that he becomes a cousin to a KR and not a KR. It would make for a richer world in my opinion.

I loved all of the cosmere stuff. I can't believe that we got to interact with characters from so many worlds and magic systems in one book. And props to hoid for gathering up that cryptic spren. It seems to me that he would fit in the best as a lightweaver as he seems to be very self-aware, and already has abilities very similar to that of light-weaving. It is also the least limiting of the orders (that we know of), and if anyone can figure out how to travel out-of-world with a spren, it would be him. I also liked his interactions with Shallan. It seems to me that if Shallan were millennia old, then she would be like him.

Jasnah-F&ck! She is totally the most badass character in these books. Kal and Dalinar may be warriors, but she just downed so many people without even trying. As a scientifically minded atheist/show me the proof type of person, she really stands out to me and I wish there were more of her in these books.

Some small things that I want to learn a lot more about:

Szeth training with all the surges.

What is Aether, and how did the washer woman get it out of clothing.

The island of Aimia

Spoiler

No wonder Hoid is so peeved with the survivor for closing the perpendicularity on Scadrial--that is where they get all their food in the cognitive realm ( I don't think anywhere else has canned food do they?).

Perfect gemstones that are common in the cognitive realm.

The fact that rock and Lopen are part parshendi (how does that even work?? They doesn't have gemhearts do they?)

Also I want to hightlight how cool it is that Brandon is so inclusive as a writer and also remarkably progressive. He included: A gay couple, multiple people breaking gender norms, heretics, atheists, Renarin (who is on the spectrum), multiple people without limbs, addiction, paralyzed people, etc. I think these types of things are too commonly overlooked by authors. It really adds to his world building.

 

[Kelsier96]

On 14/11/2017 at 0:08 PM, Leyrann said:

On one hand, I agree that it's nice to have a non-Radiant in there, but on the other hand I want to see him revive Maya, and I don't think that's going to happen without him becoming a Radiant (Edgedancer to be precise).

Why Edgedancer?

[Leyrann]

Just now, Kelsier96 said:

Why Edgedancer?

Because Mayalaran, in the Cognitive Realm, is described the same way a Cultivationspren (like Lift's Wyndle) is described. We also had a WoB for confirmation already, and in the Mayalaran thread (which is somewhere on the first page) it's also been discussed that Adolin has done a few Edgedancer-like things where he focuses on details over the greater picture, which we know by WoB is an Edgedancer thing.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Kelsier96 said:

Why Edgedancer?

Fits his personality and actions, plus his Blade is a mostly-dead Edgedancer spren. Would fit.

[IllNsickly]

Ok... Finished.. Damnation Employment even interfered with the AUDIOBOOK. Storms...

Dalinar is my favorite character. Hands down.

"I shall fear no Evil, for I am the meanest (insert favorite colloquialism here) in the Valley."

Introspection is a Bastard. Though, I dig Cultivation's 'Big Picture' plan; Relieve His Burden for now, allow Him to grow. Then... Reality Hammer, STRAIGHT TO THE FACE. Awesome growth mechanism. I am honestly amazed that it didn't backfire.

'You cannot have my pain.' The Oath that hits me the biggest. There was more stuff said, but my first listen I didn't hear much right after this. Storm me if this wasn't his Oath.

Teft, with his 'Even if the One I Hate is MYSELF' yep big ol feelers.

UNITE THEM. I am a bit torn right now... I am sure it has nothing to do with the Alethi or the Radiants. My suspicions are now either; the Realms (which we saw) or the Races on Roshar (4? Perhaps 5?) Humans, Listeners, Crustaceans and Aimians (both flavours). Not dropping Hybrids in the list because, well, I'm not.

I like Shallans growth here. Later in the book we see her change personas mid sentence (Shallan, Veil, Radiant) almost fluidly. Definitely a start at Merging, says I.

On Bridge 4 producing high proportion of Radiants. When a Broken man inspires a group of Broken men to be Better, you should not be surprised when those men... Glow...

Jasnah is exactly what I expected her to be. This is a Woman who has weathered some serious Storms. Whatever the business was with Amaram, her Father was Storming ASSASSINATED ~40 yds from her, someone has been trying to assassinate her for ?? Years. And then, when she finally accepts a Ward, her trust is betrayed (this is a Principle thing). Oh yeah, Sword through the heart, Shadesmar tribulations... And then plays Professor in the middle of the biggest battle we have seen since A Memory of Light. Jasnah's blood type is (Awesome+). Lift has a few Realms worth of catching up to do.

Highmarshall Azure. We are on book 3 of 5 (10.) I feel like her introduction here is perfect. That is all.

Venli's Redemption Arc. Just like I wanted to see. Gravy, with no lumps.

Moash...... Well, someone had to take Venli's place....

Elhokar. I am sad. I SCREAMED at him in WoK 'YOU ARE BETTER THAN THIS!' The very scene he begins to show it, Exit Stage Left. Sadface.

Renarin... 'And he nodded.' Dude knows his head and spirit are not jiving. This man is NOT weak. He knows that he is a massive liabilty. He knows his cousin is ready to eliminate the threat he represents and ACCEPTS it. 'Strength before Weakness.' Renarin is Dalinars Son, in Will and Spirit, if not Physically.

Adolin. Steadfast, Solid, Dependable. When he feels inferior or unnecessary, he is contemplative... Unless he sees a need for action. Then he is his Fathers Son. Minus the Thrill. I am in the 'Don't become Radiant' camp with Adolin. I want to see him help Mayalaran (?sp) heal from her Recreance wounds, but not to the point of Nahel Bonding. At least not in Arc 1... I want more internal stuff from Adolin.

Does anyone else hear Balacavalata from Dr. Who saying 'NO!! Mayalaran!!' When Adolin calls his Blade Maya? I know I did..

Mraize is still Demandared in my reckoning. Bit parts, minimal screen time with highly suggestive backdrops... Yep, Demandared.

Szeth is perhaps the most devastatingly Broken character to date on Roshar. We NEED his backstory.

just my pennies on the pile.

I definitely need a solid read through, E-Book style and another Audible go.

I am not talented as an author, so I do not critique, I simply enjoy. 

 

[Khyrindor]

Well, I finished the book. I skipped reactions for part 4, cause I had to keep going. 

Man, was that a journey. Well, done, Mr. Sanderson. I'm going to reread all of  SA soon so I can dig out secrets and determine which book is my favorite. I'm suspecting Oathbringer.

I wasn't able to binge this book, and I didn't snag in a reread of Part One (cause I got Part Two a week early), so I can honestly say this book has been my journey for months, since the beginning. It was an amazing few months, digging through the pre-release chapters with all of you, and then having to avoid spoilers for the last two weeks.

This amazes me above all: Brandon's ability to keep me guessing and keep me wrong. After all these years I thought I knew all his tricks. How naive I was. I let myself think multiple times that I knew what was going to happen. Firstly with Part three when I predicted Kaladin and Shallan were going to activate the Oathgate and bring in Jasnah and the other Radiants to save the day. We know how that ended. A beautifully painful scene that left me truly worried for our cast. I'm impressed with Brandon's ability to make me start to like Elhokar, though I'm quite upset that he was just one word away from being the hero he dreamed of being.

The next bit that surprised me was in the climax. And it was the complete opposite. I was completely sure that Dalinar would painfully let himself be Odium's Champion and figured he thought that Kaladin would be able to defeat him in that. Luckily Brandon pulled the rug out from us, and finally have someone other than Kaladin save the day. This really was Dalinar's book. Having so many Radiant Orders standing United will be a highlight for me, I think. An amazing picture.

Another thing I loved about the book is that each character is fleshed out in unique and interesting ways. Backstories, hopes and dreams, flaws, and strengths. Rock stuck out to me first: I swear he is the only thing that holds Bridge Four together. Then we see his family, heartbreaking and hopeful at the same time. His story culminates in killing Amaram to save Kaladin, sacrificing his own morals for that of his Bridgeleader's. A little theory I concocted is that he may grow to be another Bondsmith, though I'll have to see if this stands up in the reread.

Teft was also amazing to me. It showed us many important things in world, and skills at Brandon's writing. Teft's self-hate and shame controlling him right till he swore the third Oath. His spren was so patient with him. And his chat with Kaladin towards the end: "We lift the bridge together, Teft." So many good quotes in this book.

That's all for tonight. My hard copy should be here within a few days, so I'll write down more cohesive thoughts when I can leaf through to scenes I've doubtless forgotten.

 

 

[Dragonangel]

So, does anyone know why Sadeas started hating Dalinar so far back in the day?  I mean in the first flashback, Sadeas said that he didn't know if a rockslide would kill Dalinar and low and behold, later a rock slide tried to kill him.  Why so much hate when they were working together for the kingdom?

[manugutito]

9 hours ago, Hiadin Haloun said:

All we know is what Mr. T released.  I think the humans came from sel. My reasoning is the shin.  The man who runs the lighthouse is shin by description, but he is korathi by religious affiliation.  The first humans were given shinovar as a haven/settlement.  Odium followed close on their heels, and he has been trapped on Roshar since.  I don't buy that the humans originally worshipped odium.  But the singers thought he was because he came with the humans.  Remember Sanderson wrote Rashik as an evil man for two books straight. We didnt realize the truth till book 3.  The truth you are told early on is not always the truth of the cosmere just someones perceptions.

The lighthouse owner is a good argument. However, I suspect that anyone without an epicanthic fold will look Shin to Alethi people.

Also, since Elantris is post-Splintering of Devotion and Dominion, with (I guess) Odium having already left the Selish system, the timing gets a bit confusing. Not all of Sel's humans leave for Roshar? If Sel is not destroyed (there are people living there after Odium left), why do they say Roshar's humans destroyed their old world?

[Fulminato]

52 minutes ago, manugutito said:

The lighthouse owner is a good argument. However, I suspect that anyone without an epicanthic fold will look Shin to Alethi people.

Also, since Elantris is post-Splintering of Devotion and Dominion, with (I guess) Odium having already left the Selish system, the timing gets a bit confusing. Not all of Sel's humans leave for Roshar? If Sel is not destroyed (there are people living there after Odium left), why do they say Roshar's humans destroyed their old world?

honor, devotion e dominion aren't the only shard odium killed and splitered. there is another shard odium destroyed. perpapsh the original world of rosharan human was the planet that shard inhabitant

[Necessary Eagle]

7 hours ago, splinters said:

Really glad he included a gay couple in this book and that it isn't a big deal (even though it is really sad that one of them dies).

Drehy doesn't die. He shows up at the end with Gavinor.

[manugutito]

1 hour ago, Fulminato said:

honor, devotion e dominion aren't the only shard odium killed and splitered. there is another shard odium destroyed. perpapsh the original world of rosharan human was the planet that shard inhabitant

I argued that posibility before in a previous answer to Hiadin Haloun:

20 hours ago, manugutito said:

They had to get their Surges from somewhere if they were to use them destroy their old planet, I guess. We only know of three Shards that give access to Surges, although that doesn't mean there can't (couldn't) be others. I think we only know of four Shards killed by Odium, however (Ambition, Devotion, Dominion and Honor). Sel is not destroyed, so that one is discarded (or maybe Elantris happens before SA?). Or maybe Roshar's humans come from Threnody's Fallen World? (Although this is a destroyed continent, not a planet, but again, I can't recall if Shadows... comes before SA or after).

I don't know if there is a fifth Splintered Shard, however. 

[Edgeborn]

On 11/14/2017 at 4:31 AM, Leyrann said:

I know he doesn't have to be (I personally don't really care one way or another; I think both make for a good story), but the best fighter + the best combat Surge would allow for even more awesome fighting, no matter how you put it.

 

On 11/14/2017 at 4:32 AM, SLNC said:

And would introduce an incredibly overpowered character, who would reduce the suspense in every combat scene he is involved in.

 

I disagree, I think we're going to experience a lot more overpowered characters soon, simply because of how stupidly powerful the Fused are. With the Unmade bonding to men, we could have more monsters like Amaram walking around, and he almost killed Kaladin before even adjusting to his new power. However, there is another possibility that leaves me intruiged: what if Maya returns to sentience WITHOUT bonding directly to Adolin? He could end up wielding a shardblade just as pure as Syl, but without surges. I have no idea what that would mean, or what kind of benefit it would lend him (since the only advantage Syl has outside of surges is her ability to change forms, and Adolin definitely likes Maya as a sword) but it would doubtlessly be an important step towards reconciliation. Also, people keep saying Adolin would have to be broken to become a Radiant but he's got such a perfect life, you completely forget his dad was a raging warlord and alcoholic, and Adolin was stuck seeking his approval for years after his mother died while Dalinar drunk himself almost to death. Adolin may have moved past that now that Dalinar is better, but seeing someone you love destroy themselves will always leave scars, and I'm willing to be Adolin's dedication to dueling and love for the sword (Maya) came out of that desire for Dalinar's approval.

[Edgeborn]

OK SO THE LETTERS FROM PART TWO. I've seen a lot of speculation on them, and according to the Coppermind and general theory, the second was written by Autonomy  (Or someone representing them) because Brandon has confirmed all the letters are from shards we know, and the third is obviously Sazed, the first probably Endowment. HOWEVER, I think the second letter instead comes from Trell. EVIDENCE: Trell's "faceless immortal" from BoM consistently referred to Trell or the general leaders the Set followed as "us" or "we." The second letter follows this pattern, though it does seem to be penned by something other than the shard, saying "you have spoken to one who cannot respond." This leads into my first theory about Trell. Trell is diametrically opposed to Autonomy, instead being the shard of unity or conformity, making everyone under its power the same, bound in a sort of hive mind. It explains the "faceless immortal," because Trell simply brought the beggar into their fold, making his mind a part of a larger whole. It explains why the one Hoid wrote to "cannot respond," as he wrote to the Shards original holder, but their consciousness has been blended with the minds of everyone under Trell's power. Furthermore, the letter also mentions "our many realms." This supports the idea that Trell is connected with the Scar (red band of stars across the sky in the Cosmere, connected because the threat to Scadrial is shown also as red smoke by Sazed.) The Scar is in reality all of the worlds and systems Trell has conquered. A looser connection, but it makes more sense when you think about it: wouldn't Trell, shard of conformity or unity, want everyone to be under his control, to be the same? Therefore, he/she/they would expand and expand, and now Scadrial is their obstacle. That conquest is also referenced in Obrodai, the world "we have claimed," suggesting a world that fell rather than succeeded. I immediately remembered that Brandon was/is planning a series where the main character is destined to destroy the world, and that seems pretty conveniently paralleled, as Obrodai sounds to be somewhere of great significance that Hoid is being warned away from. The main characters role in destruction there could be giving in to Trell. It all makes sense and fits together, if anyone notices flaws, please let me know so I can try to address them.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Edgeborn
Fixing grammar/improving clarity

[Angsos]

Splinters, there's an unpublished story Aether of Night. Somewhere on the 17th Shard there's a thread or forum about it.

[Blacksmithki]

5 minutes ago, Angsos said:

Splinters, there's an unpublished story Aether of Night. Somewhere on the 17th Shard there's a thread or forum about it.

Also they get used in the unpublished, non-canon (but not to say none of it will get used) "liar of partinel"

[WhiteLeeopard]

10 hours ago, Dragonangel said:

So, does anyone know why Sadeas started hating Dalinar so far back in the day?  I mean in the first flashback, Sadeas said that he didn't know if a rockslide would kill Dalinar and low and behold, later a rock slide tried to kill him.  Why so much hate when they were working together for the kingdom?

I don't think Sadeas hated Dalinar then, its possible he was envious that the Blackthorn was a force to be reckoned with, but I suspect Sadeas mainly admired Dalinar at that point. The rockslide comment was a compliment from Sadeas. In his own way . 

[Khyrindor]

3 hours ago, Edgeborn said:

OK SO THE LETTERS FROM PART TWO. I've seen a lot of speculation on them, and according to the Coppermind and general theory, the second was written by Autonomy  (Or someone representing them) because Brandon has confirmed all the letters are from shards we know, and the third is obviously Sazed, the first probably Endowment. HOWEVER, I think the second letter instead comes from Trell. EVIDENCE: Trell's "faceless immortal" from BoM consistently referred to Trell or the general leaders the Set followed as "us" or "we." The second letter follows this pattern, though it does seem to be penned by something other than the shard, saying "you have spoken to one who cannot respond." This leads into my first theory about Trell. Trell is diametrically opposed to Autonomy, instead being the shard of unity or conformity, making everyone under its power the same, bound in a sort of hive mind. It explains the "faceless immortal," because Trell simply brought the beggar into their fold, making his mind a part of a larger whole. It explains why the one Hoid wrote to "cannot respond," as he wrote to the Shards original holder, but their consciousness has been blended with the minds of everyone under Trell's power. Furthermore, the letter also mentions "our many realms." This supports the idea that Trell is connected with the Scar (red band of stars across the sky in the Cosmere, connected because the threat to Scadrial is shown also as red smoke by Sazed.) The Scar is in reality all of the worlds and systems Trell has conquered. A looser connection, but it makes more sense when you think about it: wouldn't Trell, shard of conformity or unity, want everyone to be under his control, to be the same? Therefore, he/she/they would expand and expand, and now Scadrial is their obstacle. That conquest is also referenced in Obrodai, the world "we have claimed," suggesting a world that fell rather than succeeded. I immediately remembered that Brandon was/is planning a series where the main character is destined to destroy the world, and that seems pretty conveniently paralleled, as Obrodai sounds to be somewhere of great significance that Hoid is being warned away from. The main characters role in destruction there could be giving in to Trell. It all makes sense and fits together, if anyone notices flaws, please let me know so I can try to address them.

Trell is almost certainly related to (or an aspect of) Autonomy, at this point.

[splinters]

@Angsos and @Blacksmithki, thanks! I’ll have to read that. 

[Edgeborn]

1 hour ago, Rider of Storms said:

Trell is almost certainly related to (or an aspect of) Autonomy, at this point.

Why do you say that? Everything I've seen has led me to believe Trell is more the opposite of Autonomy. Plus, I thought Autonomy was chilling as the sun in the Taldain system?

[Steeldancer]

Damnation. I'm re reading this right now, and I don't get the complaints about how the love triangle was handled. 

Yes, we didn't get Kaladin Shallan making out. If that's what you were looking for, well, im sorry. 

But gosh... it's a constant undertext. When Shallan faces Kaladin... Kaladin isn't what she needs. she struggles with her psyche through this entire book. Her decision goes all the way back to part 3. Adolin, every time he is there for her, helps to keep her together. Kaladin.... just doesn't. The end isnt an arbitrary decision. Brandon did not ignore this plot point. Kaladin even realized what he saw in Shallan was how she is like Tien, something I suspect all Lightweavers are able to do. 

And finally, Kaladin doesnt need a relationship. I almost feel... like if he is forced into a relationship, it would be bad for him. Storms, reading this book again there is so much more under the surface. I love it. 

So yeah. I don't think Kaladin will be in any relationships soon. He needs to make more growth. 

[Edgeborn]

4 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

Damnation. I'm re reading this right now, and I don't get the complaints about how the love triangle was handled. 

Yes, we didn't get Kaladin Shallan making out. If that's what you were looking for, well, im sorry. 

YES I'VE BEEN READING ALL THESE POSTS AND I JUST DON'T GET IT. 

People complain that Shallan and Adolin being so happy together with "true love doesnt happen like that." First of all, that's how all good relationships begin, head over heels for each other. Brandon isn't saying they're perfectly in love, but that kind of happy flirting and sappy romance always happens once you get comfortable with someone.

Furthermore, Kaladin and Shallan REALLY ARE BAD FOR EACH OTHER. Kaladin admires her for how she surpresses her emotions and she only likes him when her manufactured thief and underworld personality is showing through. Normally, two people with dark pasts would be able to support each other, but in this case they have much the same problems, and Adolins teddy bear kindness is what she needs more than a spearman with the emotional intelligence of a rock.

Also, to all the Adolin haters, he isn't just a daddy's money pretty boy. His mom died when he was young, and for a lot of the time his dad was a neglectfully abusive alcoholic. At the same time, he poured himself into dueling to get his father's approval, and we see with Shallan's POVs of him interacting that even though he's a flirt that gets girls easily, he still has trouble with everyone else playing the games of the political world, and has relatively few friends. 

Also, as far as "ew Brandon wrote a love triangle," it MAKES SENSE. Kaladin really would admire and find himself attracted to Shallan's repression of her emotions, because his own depression is unavoidable. Shallan would like him back because he provides safety from what she fears: her own emotions. He's someone that would understand her suffering and understand it for his own. But THAT ISN'T WHAT SHE NEEDS. She needs to open herself up, not find company in closure. Adolin is such a genuine and well-meaning person, and what he wants is for Shallan to be herself. I love to death the scene where Shallan's personalities are flickering through, and Adolin recognizes the real one, and his love for her shows through in his stupidly misguided attempt to release their engagement so she can pursue Kaladin. He really wants her to be happy.

Tl;dr: love triangles don't suck if they actually make sense and don't become the end-all focus of the story.

[Khyrindor]

50 minutes ago, Edgeborn said:

Why do you say that? Everything I've seen has led me to believe Trell is more the opposite of Autonomy. Plus, I thought Autonomy was chilling as the sun in the Taldain system?

In Canon: (Full spoilers for Cosmere)

In spoiler box as it is off topic from the thread for the most part:

Spoiler

• Paalm the Kandra in SoS is obsessed with 'freeing' people from Harmony's oppression.
• Brandon has confirmed that the black and red spike the team recovered is from a Shard we know (this WoB came right after we got confirmation of Autonomy's Intent).
• It has been hinted at that Shard's Intents are very up for interpretation, and depending on the willpower of the Vessel, some can act very differently than we expect.
• In Khriss's essays about Taldain: "Autonomy's policy o isolationism in recent times (in direct contrast to her interference with other planets, I might add) has prevented travel to and from Taldain for many, many years." This makes it sound like Autonomy has a history of interfering with planets, which the second letter in the Part Two epigraphs confirm.
• Brandon has talked about Bavadin being very interesting, creating 'Pantheons' that worship her, where each aspect is actually her as well, and that she has been both male and female over the years. Someone also asked about Trell, and Brandon signed in their book (IIRC) "Trell has been many things over the eons." This is eerily similar.
• The Trelagism religion speaks about the worshippers being from a place with a very odd day/night system, and Taldain is tidally locked.

I also have some further theories that affect the way I think of this. Feel free to inbox me if you're interested.

 

There are also some things that come from Unpublished works that provide further evidence, but I don't think I'm allowed to comment on them out here. Again, I can let you know if you inbox me.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Rider of Storms

[Subvisual Haze]

1 hour ago, Edgeborn said:

Why do you say that? Everything I've seen has led me to believe Trell is more the opposite of Autonomy. Plus, I thought Autonomy was chilling as the sun in the Taldain system?

Brandon also had an amusing quote about Bavadin, the vessel of Autonomy.

Quote

Bavadin has several male personas, and has often appeared as male for one purpose or another, so it's not that much of an issue. She has more female personas, but some of the male ones are quite popular.

This won't be relevant for a long while, but as a service to the community, let me say this: try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned. There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her.

So Bavadin likes messing with mortals.  I think Trellism originally was an anti-Autonomy darkside of Taldain religion, but modern Trellism is just Bavadin ironically co-opting the name of the old religion for her/his own purposes.

[Hiadin Haloun]

1 hour ago, Edgeborn said:

Tl;dr: love triangles don't suck if they actually make sense and don't become the end-all focus of the story.

Thank you!

 

Also, I don't think this can actually be considered a love triangle, except in the forums.  There is no actual interactions of love, or relationship between them.  An inside joke is not the same as dating.  She has emotions yes, but never talks to Kal about these emotions.  She is actively courting Adolin.  For it to be live triangle she would have had to have gone on at least one date with the bridgeboy, which never happened.

[IllNsickly]

1 hour ago, Hiadin Haloun said:

Thank you!

 

Also, I don't think this can actually be considered a love triangle, except in the forums.  There is no actual interactions of love, or relationship between them.  An inside joke is not the same as dating.  She has emotions yes, but never talks to Kal about these emotions.  She is actively courting Adolin.  For it to be live triangle she would have had to have gone on at least one date with the bridgeboy, which never happened.

Well, there was that whole Chasm suvival thing. I'd consider that an EPIC first date. (Tongue in Cheek, here...) 

 

 

While I can see the usefulness of the Love Triangle, especially in Shallan's... Umm... Condition? They are always terribly painful for me to read through. I hope this is the cap that closes this particular Triangle.