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[OB] Full Book Reactions / Full Spoilers Thread

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43 minutes ago, rjl said:

Started a re-read, noticed something I hadn't before, the "big secret" is on the first page of the book: "She'd always imagined humans - as sung in of in the songs - as dark formless monsters."

I noticed this the first time I read it; but I was under the impression that we, as the reader, already knew who the voidbringers were at this point. It's pretty heavily foreshadowed in the prior books as well that humans are the "bad guys". I was really hoping for a bigger "big secret". I'm still very optimistic there is more to this than meets the eye. I cant wait for the next book.

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Just finished it Sunday night. Thoughts:

- Dalinar's arc is excellent, almost made me cry near the end. (Small nitpick: It bothers me when Dalinar's dialogue sounds like a modern young dude. Like, he should never use "like" like that.)

- Kaladin's inability to say his words was also emotionally powerful. I noticed a few people wanted to know what his words would be: guys, they're the same as Teft's. That's why Syl's like "Oh, Kaladin" when Kaladin says "I am pretty down on myself. Maybe that's the failure that made me unworthy."

- Odium as the humans' original god is interesting, as is an anti-human listener/singer Knight Radiant.

- I agree with a lot of other people that the love triangle was unsatisfying. I'm a big fan of romance plotlines and often like love triangles, so that was disappointing. A lot of the most interesting angles were unexplored, e.g. Kaladin admires Shallan's ability to repress her trauma, but that isn't actually psychologically healthy, but also that's what keeps her from thinking about how he killed her brother. That's interesting! And it's barely touched on! The two of them go flying off on a mission *alone* and we don't even get to see any scenes from it! And they don't talk at the end! Even if it was only Veil who "really" liked him they should still probably talk about it! Brandon's never been a *great* romance writer, frankly.

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1 hour ago, AllTheEarth said:

I agree with a lot of other people that the love triangle was unsatisfying. I'm a big fan of romance plotlines and often like love triangles, so that was disappointing. A lot of the most interesting angles were unexplored, e.g. Kaladin admires Shallan's ability to repress her trauma, but that isn't actually psychologically healthy, but also that's what keeps her from thinking about how he killed her brother. That's interesting! And it's barely touched on! The two of them go flying off on a mission *alone* and we don't even get to see any scenes from it! And they don't talk at the end! Even if it was only Veil who "really" liked him they should still probably talk about it! Brandon's never been a *great* romance writer, frankly.

See, as much as I like love subplots, especially happy love subplots, I dislike love triangles, so I was actually really happy about that. Also, as long as Shallan still hasn't fully learned to be herself, it'll pop up again -- it'll make it extra interesting with the wedding. Maybe Brandon's going for a bit of Camelot stuff?

 

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Just finished literally a few minutes ago, and... wow. Just... wow.

Seeing Jasnah in a proper fight for the first time was AMAZING! She's probably my favorite character at this point. I'm really happy to see her become the Alethi queen, and hope we get more of her in future books.

I had been expecting Dalinar to revert back to the Blackthorne and become Odium's champion since halfway through WoK. Never, in my entire life, have I been so happy to watch a pet theory get shattered before my eyes. The most important step is the next. You cannot have my pain. Chills.

Learning more about spren was really cool. I liked how the 'spren' we see in the physical realm are just little bits of the actual shadesmar entities. Though I'm not sold on Venli as a character, seeing her bond with the captain of the spren ship (whose name I'm forgetting) was quite cool.

Frickin' Kaladin... Poor dude can't catch a break. I mean, yeah, he always recovers by the end of the book, but it feels like the emotional trough he falls into in the middle gets deeper every time. First his curse of survival, then almost killing Syl, now watching Moash and Parshman Bridge 4 kill Elhokar. Geez... 

It was great watching Bridge 4 grow, both with new members, and new proper Radiants. All the members whose names start with 'R' (Rock, Rlain, Renarin), are all going through interesting arcs right now. I also liked the introduction of Tyn (Anyone else feeling KalaTyn?).

The fabrial stuff has me really intrigued. First off, the airships look awesome. I don't know how they're going to land with those sails at the bottom, but I'm really excited to see them get built and used. Urithiru itself being a fabrial is also intriguing, along with the mystery of why it isn't working. My current theory for that is that they need to trap a powerful spren (my money's on Sja-Anat) in that gem pedestal in the center.

Hoid/Wit got a lot more spotlight in this book than he ever has before. If I'm up to date, he's now a lightweaver, mistborn, and knight radiant (additionally, I'm pretty sure that when he animated that doll in the Epilogue, he was using the magic from warbreaker (can't remember the name of the planet in that one (Triple parentheses, whee!))). In the past, whenever Hoid has used lightweaving to tell a story, it's been important. In this book, he told two. The first (about the girl and the wall), I took as foreshadowing for the 'big secret' that caused the Recreance. The second (about blue skinned human-moon hybrid baby) I think is going to have significance in the future. The story he told Kaladin in WoK (about the ship going to the absolutist theocratic island) I think foreshadows Dalinar's redemption in this book. Maybe the baby story means that Humans and Parshmen (Parshendi? Singers? LIsteners? Rosharans? Not sure what to call them...) will be able to outwit Odium and share Roshar peacefully.

Moash... man, what a downer. I kept expecting him to have a change of heart. I just hope he doesn't become Odium's champion. That would be 2sad4me.

Honestly, I only had two minor complaints with this book, both focusing around Dalinar. First, as several others have pointed out, his dialog as the Blackthorne felt discordant. Second (and I'm fully aware that this is a ludicrous non-complaint to have), is I really wish instead of a bracer/wristwatch, Navani would have given him a fob watch. I can really esily see him pulling a watch on a long golden chain out of his uniform, but him raising his arm to check the time feels... off, somehow. Also, fob watches are cool.

Wooh! Okay, I think that's everything for now. Going to have to reread a few key sections to see what I can get from them. Any news on when the next one will be out? This series is more addictive than firemoss infused with the Thrill.

~PN

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3 hours ago, AllTheEarth said:

Brandon's never been a *great* romance writer, frankly

Brandon has said he likes romance so I see why he includes it but I agree it’s not his strong suit. 

I honestly rate the romance least amongst things I care about in SA. I actually like romance in books but we really don’t see it done in these books very well so I have a hard time caring. Not knocking Brandon he is so great at so many things it would be unfair if he was great at this too. It’s something he may improve on which I would not be surprised at all to see after I’ve seen him grow in so many areas. 

In paticular I wouldn’t believe in any relationship Kaladin is in. He still has to learn to love himself before he could love anyone else. 

Brandon is however  good at showing love between family and especially brothers at arms so I tend to care about that a lot more in the books. 

 

Edited by StormingTexan
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Hi guys. I'm new to the forums here. I'm also farely new to Brandon Sanderson's work. I discovered him through The Wheel of Time. I thought that he did such an excellent job finishing that series that I wanted to look into his stuff, and I'm addicted. The first mistborn series was my favorite of all of his writings (and in 2 years I've bought and read everything) until Oathbringer. I've read what some of you have said about the love triangle, and I agree with that. Also to me the whole Shallan/Veil/Radiant schizophrenia thing I didn't like, but I'm not sure if I was unhappy with the story telling of it, or just that I want to Shallan as whole, and awesome. I love lift, but I'm sorry that she now knows that Wyndle isn't a voidbringer because that was funny as hell (I'm glad I read edgedancer before OB). Overall this book was excellent, and it pushed the Stormlight Archives to the top of my all time favorite series behind only LOTR. 

Edited by Argo
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I loved it, just like the first two.  I loved Shallen's journey, Wit helping her, everything.  

I almost couldn't keep reading after Kaladin froze, all I could think was: Oh no, Poor Kaladin! T_T

And the Kaladin/Shallan pairing has been destroyed.  I can fully admit that that part was my absolute least favorite part of this book.  I actually really loved the idea of these two, and I think Shallan doesn't realize how much Kaladin understands her.  I think he could get her even better than Adolin if she had spent more time with him.  I definitely agree with some of what I read in the earlier posts in this thread, Brandon would not have drawn it out this much to cut it off so sharply.  Despite what Kaladin says to Syl, I think he really liked her.  Granted, the differences in their spren, oaths, and Radiant Orders might have become a problem in the future, Kaladin is bonded to an Honorspren after all, but DARN IT, I liked that pairing.  And while socially, as a ward with Jasnah, it would be easier for Adolin and her to have a relationship, considering Kaladin's position, abilities, and constant time in battle, I just liked how Kaladin and Shallan interacted better.

Not that I don't like Adolin, but I agree with Shallan's thoughts from Words of Radiants, about how he doesn't respond to her quips, intelligence, and teasing like Kaladin and she is kind of disappointed.  There are even a few moments in this book where she is thinking the same thing.  

Ok, done with that rant, sorry.

I was so sad about Elhokar, especially when he was just about to get so much better.  

I'm worried about the secrets Rock from B4 is keeping.  

I know I am in a minority, but the idea that the humans were the invaders actually took me by surprise.  I could honestly see why the Radiants would have had a problem with this, especially considering what their history tells.  The twist that they actually brought Odium with them and not Honor, yet the two shards are on completely different sides now was also very surprising.  I'm sure there is much more to that story, just like there has to be more to why the Radiants abandoned their oaths.

I wonder how the spren would react if they found out that the Radiants were worried about completely destroying the world.  If that would change how some of them felt about what they did.  

Also: Kaladin's Homecoming was perfect.  He honestly could not have wrote that better.  From him seeing his parents, to showing his eye color change, to his big dramatic exit, I completely enjoyed every bit of it.

And some more Warbreaker people!  I was trying to figure out Azure from the first moment we met her, she seemed so out of place somehow.  It was awesome to realize exactly who she was, let alone who the old sword master is.  I have to reread Warbreaker now, I can't remember what those two were doing at the end.  

I loved learning Dalinar's history, it was so interesting to see just how he turned into someone who would give up a shardblade to keep his word from the battle hungry soldier from his youth.  The slaughter of the Rift city part just killed me, he was trying to do the right thing, trying to do what his wife suggested and they turned on him.  It was horrible, but I can understand why he snapped as badly as he did.  I would have been just as angry, but without a lifetime of battle and habit to push me to such extremes.  I'm sure the Thrill didn't help things either.  Yet he tried to get better.  And with help, he did.  

I am horribly glad that Taravangian and his madness keep getting thwarted, that was very nice.  And I have a feeling that he is going to really regret the deal he made with Odium.

I feel like this mostly is a book about the grey areas, how people change, and no one is all good or all bad.  And I love that about Brandon, how he slips those things in there, making the story so much richer.

Anyway, loved it, Words of Radiance is still my favorite, but I still loved this one and I am going to be so glad when the next one comes out!

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I have to confess something: I have major problems with Oathbringer, especially the last couple of chapters ("Ideals" and "Debt Repaid"). Now, don't get me wrong; as a Sharder who loves getting as much info about the cosmere as possible, I am very thankful that Brandon tried to pack in so much in such a short space.

But as a reader... it was all a bit exhausting, to be honest. With all the action going on post-climax, it almost felt like I was reading the start of another story instead of an ending. Despite liking most of the ending scenes over all, by the last dozen pages a sort of fatigue started setting in.

In a way, I understand why Brandon did this. The scene where Dalinar was writing his memoirs is one of the must-haves of the book, which is named after said memoirs. Of course it has to be there. The trouble is that Dalinar would not have had time to work on "Oathbringer, My Glory and My Shame" until more pressing concerns were handled, namely, Taravangian's betrayal, the vacant throne of Alethkar, and his son's marriage. And so Brandon chose to write scenes dealing with those three things first, along with a bunch of other stuff that happened in between. Only then could he end the book with Dalinar writing his memoirs.

The thing is, in my opinion this is one instance where the show, don't tell rule of writing could have been and should have been ignored. Every writing rule has exceptions, and I truly believe a "tell" way of resolving some of the loose threads would have allowed Brandon to write a single, more effective ending chapter instead of the two chapters that we had. In addition, I believe some of the scenes would have been better off being moved to a separate novella published after Oathbringer.

Let me list down all the scenes in the last two chapters, and how I personally would have suggested changing some of them if I were Brandon's editor:

  1. Moash is given an assignment - Keep.
  2. Dalinar asks Navani to teach him how to read - Keep.
  3. Shallan realizes that Adolin knows the real her - Keep.
  4. Venli ponders on her fate - Keep.
  5. Szeth swears the Third Ideal of the Skybreakers - Keep.
     
  6. Shallan and Adolin confess their love for each other - Move to novella.
     
  7. Kaladin ponders on stuff and talks to Teft - Keep.
     
  8. Taravangian confesses to Dalinar - Move to novella.
     
  9. Moash kills Jezrien - Keep. But end the scene with the Fused giving Moash Jezrien's Honorblade and renaming him as Vyre immediately after Jezrien dies, so that we can skip the last Moash scene.
     
  10. Lopen swears the Second Ideal of the Windrunners - Keep. But end it before Lopen talks to Kaladin. And switch with the Ash scene below.
     
  11. Ash feels her father's death - Keep. But switch with Lopen scene above.
     
  12. Kaladin finds Drehy, Skar, and Gavinor - Drop. Instead, replace Teft's final interlude (I-14, which I felt wasn't really needed and didn't even feel like a good interlude) with an interlude from Drehy's POV showing how they managed to send a spanreed message, and perhaps giving details on how they survived the Kholinar disaster. This is the only change I would suggest outside of the last two chapters.
     
  13. Taravangian faces Odium. Move to novella.
     
  14. Adolin confesses to the murder of Sadeas and refuses kingship - Move to novella.
     
  15. Palona reads gossip and Jasnah appears as queen - Drop. Instead, write a scene from the POV of Jochi of Thaylenah, where we get another spanreed conference between him, Ethid, and Jasnah. Jochi talks about how the common Thaylen folk are coping after half their city was destroyed, while Jasnah reports about Elhokar's death and the rescue of Gavinor, the confessions of Taravangian and Adolin, Shallan and Adolin's marriage, and finally (*gasp*) her coronation as queen of Alethkar!
     
  16. Moash receives the Honorblade - Drop. See scene 9 above.
     
  17. Shallan and her brothers reunite, and she receives a new Ghostblood assignment - Move to novella.
     
  18. Dalinar writes Oathbringer - Keep.

 

As you can see, if I had my way there would have been only 11 scenes (10 pre-existing + 1 new scene) in Oathbringer's ending instead of 18, and I think all of that would have fitted a single chapter. The spanreed conversation of the hypothetical Jochi scene is what I meant by breaking the "show, don't tell" rule for the sake of a shorter, better ending over all. I think it would have worked because, after all, we already had a chapter with the three Veristitalians conversing via spanreed earlier in the novel, and I believe Brandon could have pulled off another one. Also, the actual Scene 15 felt lacking to me because we never got to know Jasnah's thoughts about being queen. My alternative scene would have allowed her to express herself a bit.

***

In my alternative timeline, Oathbringer wouldn't have had Shallan and Adolin's passionate kiss except through Kaladin's POV. It also wouldn't have had Taravangian's encounter with Odium. But that's where the novella comes in. In my little fantasy I imagine the hypothetical novella to have two parts:

The first part, called "Hate", has Taravangian's POV of his treacherous acts during the battle of Thaylen City. Then comes his confession to Dalinar (Scene 8) and the Odium encounter (Scene 13), each expanded into their own chapters.

The second part, called "Love", has all the Shallan scenes after Scene 3 expanded into their own chapters. After Scene 14, there is a chapter showing Jasnah's coronation. More importantly, after Scene 17 we actually get to see the marriage ceremony of Shallan and Adolin, which is kind of a big deal if you ask me.

I don't know what Brandon would have called this hypothetical novella, but I'm thinking that "Passions that Bind" is a nice title.

***

Okay, I'm starting to wonder if maybe my imagination has gone wilder than usual this time. I guess I just felt that Oathbringer could have been a much more awesome book if the ending was handled a bit better. Brandon's writing has improved a lot in some ways, but sadly this is my least-favorite ending in a Sanderson book so far.

But the rest of the book was simply awesome. That is something I agree with almost everyone.

Edited by skaa
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8 hours ago, AllTheEarth said:

- Kaladin's inability to say his words was also emotionally powerful. I noticed a few people wanted to know what his words would be: guys, they're the same as Teft's. That's why Syl's like "Oh, Kaladin" when Kaladin says "I am pretty down on myself. Maybe that's the failure that made me unworthy."

That was Teft's third oath. They don't have to be identical (As we learn from "Journey before Pancakes")

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9 hours ago, AllTheEarth said:

- Kaladin's inability to say his words was also emotionally powerful. I noticed a few people wanted to know what his words would be: guys, they're the same as Teft's. That's why Syl's like "Oh, Kaladin" when Kaladin says "I am pretty down on myself. Maybe that's the failure that made me unworthy."

As @GrooFudge said, that was Teft's third oath, just like Kaladin's third oath was 'I will protect even those I hate, as long as it is right.', the third one is about protecting people regardless of your opinion about them. Kaladin's a bit further ahead than Teft in the Windrunner progression (I wonder when Teft swore his first and second Oaths?). We don't know what the fourth oath is yet, the only hint we've had was from the Windrunner message in the epigraphs:

Quote

My spren claims that this recording will be good for me, so here I go. Everyone says I will swear the Fourth Ideal soon, and in so doing, earn my armor. I simply don’t think that I can. Am I not supposed to want to help people?

It seems to be about not helping everyone all the time, or letting go of your failures, or something else. That's why we're speculating. :)

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I'm a little disappointed in all this anti-love triangle talk. Hasn't anyone here ever been even remotely involved in one? Nobody has experienced not being sure of what you are feeling? Or who around you might be better for your future or your goals? No one has been attracted to two people at the same time for differing reasons? 

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7 hours ago, Paracosmic_nomenclator said:

Hoid/Wit got a lot more spotlight in this book than he ever has before. If I'm up to date, he's now a lightweaver, mistborn, and knight radiant (additionally, I'm pretty sure that when he animated that doll in the Epilogue, he was using the magic from warbreaker (can't remember the name of the planet in that one (Triple parentheses, whee!))).

Hoid has Breath for sure. Remember WoR's scene where he and Kaladin talk in the chasms, and Hoid claims that playing the flute is easier "with perfect pitch"? That means Second Heightening minimum IIRC.

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13 hours ago, rjl said:

Started a re-read, noticed something I hadn't before, the "big secret" is on the first page of the book: "She'd always imagined humans - as sung in of in the songs - as dark formless monsters."

In re reading WoK and WoR in preparation for OB I started thinking that humans were the voidbringers to start with.  When the reveal came I was not surprised at all.  The listener songs talk about the spren betrayal, choosing humans, how they didn't shatter the plains, and a few other hints that could be picked up on.

I don't think, however, that odium really was their god when they showed up. I think he followed them after killing their god, or perhaps both of their gods.  

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18 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

You know what I realized? We never saw Dalinar get Gallant. Darn 

I assumed this was because no Ryshadium would have chosen him until after Cultivation did her thing and he started really growing as a person.

Edited by Mulk
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That was Teft's third oath. They don't have to be identical (As we learn from "Journey before Pancakes")

Oh!

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I believe some of the scenes would have been better off being moved to a separate novella published after Oathbringer

Not everyone is a super-fan who reads all the novellas. Plot-critical things (like Taravangian confessing to Dalinar) have to be included in the main books. It would be just weird if the next book begins with "Dalinar reflected upon how Taravangian had confessed to him, a radical development completely upending his relationship to the man"). Also if the resolution of the romance plot-line got pushed off to a novella it would have had me in a murderous rage.

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5 hours ago, Hiadin Haloun said:

In re reading WoK and WoR in preparation for OB I started thinking that humans were the voidbringers to start with.  When the reveal came I was not surprised at all.  The listener songs talk about the spren betrayal, choosing humans, how they didn't shatter the plains, and a few other hints that could be picked up on.

I don't think, however, that odium really was their god when they showed up. I think he followed them after killing their god, or perhaps both of their gods.  

They had to get their Surges from somewhere if they were to use them destroy their old planet, I guess. We only know of three Shards that give access to Surges, although that doesn't mean there can't (couldn't) be others. I think we only know of four Shards killed by Odium, however (Ambition, Devotion, Dominion and Honor). Sel is not destroyed, so that one is discarded (or maybe Elantris happens before SA?). Or maybe Roshar's humans come from Threnody's Fallen World? (Although this is a destroyed continent, not a planet, but again, I can't recall if Shadows... comes before SA or after).

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I wonder if Skar and Drehy have a nahel bond at the end of the book. Here is the quote:

Quote

Kaladin frowned as Drehy returned to the fire and picked up one of the figures there. A child? In rags. Yes, a frightened little boy, maybe three or four years old, lips chapped, eyes haunted.

Elhokar’s son.

“We protect those,” Drehy said, “who cannot protect themselves.” 

Does this mean they swore the second oath? Or do squires automatically uphold their radiant's oaths?

Also, how sad that little Gavinor has haunted eyes. I wonder how much he will retain of what happened at the palace. Perhaps this sufficient trauma for him to attract a spren. ("You get a spren! And you get a spren!...") 

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@Starla Well it is highly implied and I have no idea how else they would have escaped a Kholinar full of listeners and Fused.

Edited by SLNC
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It's also possible that they had some amount of time between Kaladin getting Shadesmar'd and when they lost their powers. It's also also possible that Kaladin being right there—albeit in Shadesmar—was sufficient to count as them being close to him.

Edited by Kurkistan
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@SLNC I thought that at first, but then wondered why they wouldn't lash everyone to the Shattered Plains oathgate if they can surgebind. Kaladin could use gravitation after the second oath, and they've been practicing, so it should be possible if they have stormlight. Maybe there were too many people to carry.

@Kurkistan Interesting theory about keeping a connection to Kaladin when he's in Shadesmar. It's not truly another place. I guess he would have travelled out of range after a few days, but it might have worked for long enough to get them out of Kholinar.

I was also wondering why they travelled down toward the sea in Southern Alethkar. It seems like a random place in the middle of nowhere. 

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9 hours ago, AngelEy3 said:

I'm a little disappointed in all this anti-love triangle talk. Hasn't anyone here ever been even remotely involved in one? Nobody has experienced not being sure of what you are feeling? Or who around you might be better for your future or your goals? No one has been attracted to two people at the same time for differing reasons? 

It's inherently divisive because in the triangle, someone is going to get trod on. In this case it was Kal, and Adolin might be in trouble if he keeps exacerbating Shallan's condition by fraternizing with Veil and accepting her as real. 

It's definitely a real and, to many, relatable phenomenon, but that doesn't make it good or enjoyable.

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4 hours ago, Starla said:

Also, how sad that little Gavinor has haunted eyes. I wonder how much he will retain of what happened at the palace. Perhaps this sufficient trauma for him to attract a spren. ("You get a spren! And you get a spren!...") 

He'll probably remember nearly all of it :(. 3 or 4 years old is enough to remember and to have a huge impact for the rest of his life. I knew a child that had a turbulent childhood until 3 years, then lived with his second aunt's family, who loved him very much and gave him stability. But it still took him at least 5 years to stabilize. Even then it was obvious he was never going to be a "normal" child. 3 years is enough to affect the rest of your life, even if its through memories of memories. 

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8 hours ago, manugutito said:

They had to get their Surges from somewhere if they were to use them destroy their old planet, I guess. We only know of three Shards that give access to Surges, although that doesn't mean there can't (couldn't) be others. I think we only know of four Shards killed by Odium, however (Ambition, Devotion, Dominion and Honor). Sel is not destroyed, so that one is discarded (or maybe Elantris happens before SA?). Or maybe Roshar's humans come from Threnody's Fallen World? (Although this is a destroyed continent, not a planet, but again, I can't recall if Shadows... comes before SA or after).

All we know is what Mr. T released.  I think the humans came from sel. My reasoning is the shin.  The man who runs the lighthouse is shin by description, but he is korathi by religious affiliation.  The first humans were given shinovar as a haven/settlement.  Odium followed close on their heels, and he has been trapped on Roshar since.  I don't buy that the humans originally worshipped odium.  But the singers thought he was because he came with the humans.  Remember Sanderson wrote Rashik as an evil man for two books straight. We didnt realize the truth till book 3.  The truth you are told early on is not always the truth of the cosmere just someones perceptions.

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Finished on Sunday evening, after a couple days to reflect:

Dalinar meeting Odium in the vision, Dalinar meeting Cultivation in the Flash-back. I loved the Cultivation scene. I thought the flashbacks weren't quite as powerful as WoK or WoR but the Cultivation/Nightmother scene where he asks for forgiveness is really powerful. 

Kaladin meets his family, brother, Kaladin arguing with Jasnah, the memory (not flashback) scenes, I did not like his end fight with Super-Amaram. I thought it was a bit too much. I liked all his interactions with Azure

Azure! All the Kholinar stuff was great, including the Hoid story of the Girl with the Scarves. I loved how he turned it around from Shallan's negative telling. It seems to tell of Humanity trapped in Shinovar outside of the Stormlight and going out into the rest of Roshar.

Shallan was tough to read, in a good way, like how Kaladin was tough to read in WoR.  I didn't like the split personality thing, but it works to get her to her end. I did like when she fought the Midnight Mother.

I loved the Jasnah-Renarin confrontation, I loved Szeth and Lift and Nightblood, I loved the Ash-Taln scenes, I loved the Brandon-Avalanche, Unity! also Unity?

I called the Dawnsingers=Listerners/Parsh, and that they were native and at first welcomed humanity before being corrupted by Odium. The humans probably started the war though. I thought the secret behind the recreance was underwhelming (maybe because I guessed it separately, not that that was THE secret though)

Tanavast seems to have been fading into Honor by the end. Rayse seems very much still in control. Those letters from Shards to Hoid were fun. I don't know the first, but the others must have been Autonomy and Harmony.

I loved all of Venli's stuff, I was shocked Eshonai was really dead, but I think it's better because it's Venli. I think Brandon may have intended it to be Eshonai but changed his mind. It's clear Odium doesn't care about the Singers but is just using them as means to an end. The Singers are the true owners of Roshar, but Odium still needs to be stopped and I anticipate the future books involve Dalinar and Venli seeing common ground. Venli is a Willshaper and her spren I would guess is a Lightspren/Reacher. (Exploration, Adventure, Resolve, and building relationships).

I did not like reading Moash chapters but I understand why they're there and we got interesting insights into the Fused. Jesrien! (called it, oh and also Tezim=Ishar [who is up to no good and I think is working for Odium] and that Dova is a herald!) Is Moash going to be the new Champion of Odium? It feels like it. 

I'm not 100% sure what's going on with Malata. I was wrong about the Skybreakers. The Stone Shamanate and the disease on the Purelake got put on the back burner. Some light set-up for future Jasnah book (a mysterious illness, a lonely child-hood) Szeth went Ice-skating, I thought Szeth would reject the Skybreakers and become a different order. Nale is still crazy and broken, just differently. I think Shallash will become a Radiant of a different order (Dustbringer? Malata doesn't seem like a central character), still wondering what's up with Rysn, I still think she becomes a Radiant. 

I did not realize at first the consequences of the end. Odium has chosen the contest of Champions and his trick of turning Dalinar failed. I would guess book 5 ends with the contest of Champions and Odium is rebound. 

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