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[OB] Full Book Reactions / Full Spoilers Thread


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1 hour ago, StormingTexan said:

So I can be a little dense sometimes picking up subtle things but was Ash destroying art depicting her because of her guilt of sending Taln to uphold the Oathpact himself? Like she didn’t want herself to be seen as someone to worship?

Also regarding Taln what was Brandon’s comments about him possible not being the person he claimed to be all about? It seems pretty apparent from Ash that he is Taln... Did I miss something or are we just not know enough about him yet? Btw his one coherent line was amazing. I really want to undestand why he wasn’t supposed to be a Herald.

because some true information need to be obscured to make some other information 'murky'. if we had rafo only for the correct answer it will be spoil all the future book.

25 minutes ago, ericth said:

I suspect part of it is how much stormlight she had access to during the early part of that fight.  With an unlimited power budget I'm sure she's capable of some pretty incredible stuff.

and the three realms are realy close, she can peek on shademar without cross the border of the phisical realm.

“Three worlds,” Ivory said. “Slowly splitting apart again, but for now, three realms are close.” “Then let’s make use of it before it fades, shall we?”

Edited by Fulminato
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12 hours ago, TheLordRuler said:

Another point I forgot to mention earlier on is Vasher and his criminal status. Speculation as to what could have caused this? Maybe Vivenna awakened her blade specifically to hunt Vasher? Also, has Vivenna's shapeshifting expanded beyond hair colour? At one point Adolin mentions her scars fading alongside her hair changing colour.

Vasher isn't the criminal. NIGHTBLOOD is. 

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1 hour ago, StormingTexan said:

Also regarding Taln what was Brandon’s comments about him possible not being the person he claimed to be all about? It seems pretty apparent from Ash that he is Taln... Did I miss something or are we just not know enough about him yet? Btw his one coherent line was amazing. I really want to undestand why he wasn’t supposed to be a Herald.

Taln's original storyline in WoK (prime?) was that he wasn't sure who he was and nobody believed him that he was a herald, it's probably related to that.

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This book was awesome! Like most of Sanderson's books, the first two thirds can vacillate between awesome, meh, and even cringeworthy, but then I get to that final third and remember that Brandon is a storming genius. One small complaint I had about the final battle was that some of the jumpcuts seemed a little excessive, almost like the sight gags you see in movies sometimes, like when Lancelot storms the castle in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. But seriously, that finale was insane.

As epic as this story is, though, it's surprising how intimate most of the really powerful scenes are. Teft finally saying his oath, Shallan and Wit trying to put back together the shattered remnants of her soul, Dalinar taking the next step. Dalinar really is that immovable object that meets the unstoppable force and stops it cold. From that first Chasmfiend hunt where he catches and holds the claw, to him holding together the palace in the vision with Venli, to him telling Odium to go to Damnation - you cannot have my pain! Forget shoulder angels/devils, Dalinar's soul has been the staging ground for a decades long turf war of three Gods. Dalinar is probably the only person alive to have personal meetings with Honor, Cultivation, and Odium, and they all thought he was their champion. And that whole "it wasn't you, it was the thrill, it was me" schtick from Odium reminds me a little of Captain America: Civil War when Cap tells Bucky that wasn't you, you were brainwashed, and he says, yeah, But I did it. But that's the whole point of the Cosmere, isn't it? These are broken people, serving broken gods, just trying to take that next step.

I also really loved that Kaladin was saved in the end, not once but several times. I honestly think the fourth Ideal is going to be something like "I will allow others to protect me" or I will allow others to protect themselves" or "I will accept that I cannot protect everyone." It actually kind of reminds me of the Serenity prayer - "God give me the strength to change the things I can change, the courage to accept the things I cannot change, and the wisdom to know the difference." Kaladin's struggle has always been learning to let go of the people he failed, and if you look at his inner monologue when he's about to say the words, he thinks of all the people he's failed to save. Kaladin's journey is refuting the hero complex, and I think by the end he's going to have moved beyond the likes of Rand's mantra of all the deaths he's responsible for in the Wheel of Time.

I thought Shallan's arc was more about keeping her head above water than actually making huge strides in character development. She does grow in some very important ways, but it's a long tough slog to sanity for her. Also, I feel like her magical persona/split personalites are a theme that keeps coming up for Brandon, most notable with Legion and Emperor's Soul, but even Wayne has some weirdness going on when he goes into his disguises. Also, I thought there was going to be something more to the Shallan/Pattern conflict resolution. I mean, in the beginning he's practically offering to let her kill him, she can't handle it, and then throughout the book, it seems like Pattern is trying to say stuff and she's tuning him out, but then that never really gets confronted, which is either Shallan being Shallan and avoiding the issue, or this story has about thirty-six plot threads too many and some of them get lost in the shuffle.

Also, I kind of missed the Spren in this book. They were great in Part one, but drifted into the background for much of the rest of the book, even when they became corporeal in Shadesmar. I don't know if Shallan had any meaningful interactions with Pattern, and Kaladin and Syl didn't talk that much outside of logistical stuff. Although, my absolute favorite joke in the whole book (not the funniest, just my favorite) is between Adolin and Pattern when Adolin mentions they're an odd bunch, and Pattern says, Yes. Seven people. Odd. It's so great because neither of them get that it's a joke. As a side note, one of the few times Kaladin and Adolin get into a verbal sparring match, Adolin's retort is you talk like a girl - and that was such a recess on the playground - you play ball like a girl - kind of comment.

Jasnah was great. Supercharged elsecallers are no joke, especially with that cascading quartz soulcasting, where the one guy crashes into the next guy and then the next guy. Also, her refusing to kill Renarin seemed very much a journey before destination move. Honestly, this war is going to be won by consistently refuting utilitarian ethics. The ends never justify the means. Also, due props to Elhokar's growth in this book aside, Jasnah is going to make a much better Monarch than her brother. She doesn't take crap from anybody and she loves telling people what to do. Also, the Vorin church has got to be in shambles at this point. The new Queen of Alethkar and the de facto High King of Roshar are officially heretics, and the King of Jah Keved and Kharbranth just made a deal with the actual devil.

Plus, speaking of Taravangian, that guy is Faust on steroids. His soul has got to be more shredded than Voldemort's. Also, I found his bargaining with Odium to be somewhat reminiscent, in a funhouse mirror kind of way, to Abraham dealing with God over the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. Plus, you can really see how justifying your means leaves you with some pretty paltry ends at the and of the day. Sets out trying to save the world, can barely hold on to his own city. Do not try buying a car from Odium.

There were a couple of things that didn't make sense to me. I don't really get how Kaladin "rode the storm" from Urithiru, solidly in the middle of Roshar, to Thaylenah, decidedly on the Eastern edge of Roshar, on a Westbound storm. The only way for me to rationalize this is that the storm spans a good chunk of the continent all at once and he's skimming over the top of the storm as it passes by underneath. Also, the logistics of recharging spheres makes no sense to me. You have to expose the vast majority of the world's currency/lighting/other essential modern conveniences to violent storms once every couple of weeks. How is everyone not robbed blind all the time? Also, the discrediting of Dalinar felt very soap opera-y and weak to me. The whole exposed visions in TWoK had a lot more impact than this did.

I know this post is way too long but I just wanted to end on a couple of idiosyncratic Mormon tidbits. These are a little esoteric but here goes. The civil war in Jah Keved, with thrill-induced wholesale slaughter reminded me a lot of the final chapters of Ether in the Book of Mormon, when the Jaredites self-destruct their whole civilization and kill each other down to the last man. And Cultivation saying that she needs to prune Dalinar to help him grow, reminded me of Elder Hugh B Brown's talk about the currant bush. I'm not trying to preach or anything, just thought I'd point out a couple of things that might have influenced Brandon creatively.

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34 minutes ago, christianlathaire said:

I don't really get how Kaladin "rode the storm" from Urithiru, solidly in the middle of Roshar, to Thaylenah, decidedly on the Eastern edge of Roshar, on a Westbound storm. The only way for me to rationalize this is that the storm spans a good chunk of the continent all at once and he's skimming over the top of the storm as it passes by underneath.

Kaladin and Shallan rode the storm from the Shattered Plains to get to Thaylenah.

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8 minutes ago, What's a Seawolf? said:

And one more thing I forgot to add.

When Dalinar, Adolin and Shallan were discussing who should be king after Adolin's refusal, and the text cut to Palona... I thought FOR SURE they were going to appoint Sebarial.

Which may have been the best thing short of Lift.

Jasnah was the next best choice though.

I think Brandon got everyone on that. I was laughing as it happened then was like oh Jasnah  that makes a lot more sense. 

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Dang I keep forgetting this!
 
So that painting that Kaladin looks at in the spren market...
 

 

Quote

 

And yet, nestled among the paintings for display was a small one painted from thick strokes of oil. White and red, with lines of black. When he looked away, he found himself drawn back toward it, studying the way the highlights played off those dark lines.


 

 


Sure is similar to this one..

 

Quote

 

He gave this last painting the time it deserved. The canvas was thick with paint, every inch colored with large, fat strokes of the brush. The predominant hue was a deep red, almost a crimson, that Lightsong immediately knew was a red–blue mixture with a hint of black in it.

 


Clearly Nightblood stole it and that is why Vivenna is after him :P
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My initial thoughts to "what I missed / was not so happy"?

  • Why couldn't we here the conversation Kaladin had with Rlain when Rlain told him, he will try to tell him how he feels? I would have been very interested in that...
  • Why make Venli the "good guy" and not just make Rlain the Radiant? Or will he maybe somehow become a Windrunner? Find it a little "unfair" since I don't have any pity at all for Venli...and I don't think it's cool that she will be the one who saves the "real parshmens".
  • Shallan get the perfect happy ending (for everything: brothers back, she can keep adolin and even marry him, apparently she has her multiple personalities under control etc.) while other characters don't (primary talkign about Kaladin...ok he at least recovered from his failure a little when failing @ Elhokar but still...)
  • I felt like the victory they achieved against Odium was too big and to easy. They were so few Radiants and it felt like Odium threw A LOT of trumps against them and they just fixed everything... For me it just felt to easy...I wonder what the "increase in difficutly" in the next battle will be? Of course there will be more Fused's .. and probably the Skybreakers...but what other things can they throw at them? In Dalinars vision (when I remember correctly) one of the worst thing he saw were the "Thunderclasts" and the went down pretty easy

BTW: Lift, Lopen & Szeth (or better Nightblood) :wub:

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27 minutes ago, Nasicus said:

.

  • Shallan get the perfect happy ending (for everything: brothers back, she can keep adolin and even marry him, apparently she has her multiple personalities under control etc.) while other characters don't (primary talkign about Kaladin...ok he at least recovered from his failure a little when failing @ Elhokar but still...)

Girl has had a rough road, she deserves a break, although I suspect it is far from over concerning her particular issues. 

Side note: Every time I read the word "thunderclasts", my brain wants to read it as "Thundercats". Makes for some great visuals. :D

Never trust someone who claims to see into the future. (Give me sight, beyond sight!)

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1 hour ago, Nasicus said:

Why couldn't we here the conversation Kaladin had with Rlain when Rlain told him, he will try to tell him how he feels? I would have been very interested in that...

I think it's setting up for the next books. IMO Rlain, Rock and Tefts will all be expanded further down the road.

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27 minutes ago, meanfar said:

I think it's setting up for the next books. IMO Rlain, Rock and Tefts will all be expanded further down the road.

Sigzil try to kill someone, many time. i want know who and why. he don't seem a person to murder someone for futile motives.

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4 hours ago, Nasicus said:

Shallan get the perfect happy ending (for everything: brothers back, she can keep adolin and even marry him, apparently she has her multiple personalities under control etc.) while other characters don't (primary talkign about Kaladin...ok he at least recovered from his failure a little when failing @ Elhokar but still...)

I don't think Shallan has her personality issues under control at all. I felt like she was the only character to regress in this book, and am highly concerned for her.

@StormingTexan I talked about that Lightsong painting earlier in the thread. I'm pretty sure it's the same one. I love Lightsong so it makes me very happy to see a reference to him here, and that Kaladin was drawn to the same painting.

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10 minutes ago, Starla said:

I don't think Shallan has her personality issues under control at all. I felt like she was the only character to regress in this book, and am highly concerned for her.

Yup. She found some stability in Adolin, but I fear, that she will rely too much on it instead of trying to find inner stability and acceptance of herself.

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28 minutes ago, Starla said:

I talked about that Lightsong painting earlier in the thread. I'm pretty sure it's the same one. I love Lightsong so it makes me very happy to see a reference to him here, and that Kaladin was drawn to the same painting.

Yeah when I read that it made me think of Lightsong's painting and went back to read the description. Both of their experiences viewing the painting are very similar. Oh and then what the shopkeeper says pretty much seals the deal at the very least it is from the court of gods on Nalthis. 

Quote

 

“It’s a unique piece, human,” she said. “From the far-off Court of Gods, a painting intended only for a divinity to see. It is exceptionally rare that one escapes being burned at the court, and makes its way onto the market.”

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 956). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 


 

 

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Wow. Just wow. 

Finished 15 minutes ago and my body is still shaking from adrenaline. That must have been the heaviest Sanderlanche I've ever read. There was so much in that tome to unpack that it's going to be hard to wrap my head around all that I learned, conceived and experienced in this last week since getting the book. Suffice to say, it was such another wonderful adventure and worth the 1351 day wait. Here are some of my reactions to the whole thing:

  • Kal's Story: Though I was excited for him to say it, I'm glad we didn't get to hear Kaladin actually say the 4th Ideal of the Windrunners. Syl makes a good point where Kal can't save everyone, and just once it would be okay for someone to save him. I absolutely LOVED his fight with mecha-Unmade-Amaram and that Amaram's true self really shone through there. I think that by the time book 4 rolls around, Kal's 4th ideal will have a lot to do with not being able to save everyone, and the lessons he learned being with Bridge 4 will help him discover that. I'm upset - being the consummate Shalladin supporter that I am - at Kal and Shallan's fizzled romance. BUT: I get it.
  • Shallan's Story: I can't help but feel that Shallan's Dissociative Identity Disorder story will continue well into book 4 until she can accept that she is all of these people instead of compartmentalizing parts of herself into Veil and Radiant. I think that her brothers and her marriage to Adolin (who I do think is the best fit for her, despite my Shalladin leanings) will play no small part in her finding her next Ideal. I feel like Shallan's story wasn't as rounded or as meaningful as her progression in OB as it was in WoR, but that's kind of to be expected in the wake of WoR being her flashback book. I loved her ending though, she really deserves happiness. Only thing I wanted more of, however was more Ghostbloods! 
  • Dalinar's Story: My god, it was wonderful. I can't believe Brandon's had that one locked and loaded for so long. Everything about Dalinar's progression here from ambitious but uncertain grumpy warlord to multi-dimensional transcendental grumpy warlord was nothing short of spectacular. My singular favourite moment in the entire book (potentially the entire series) was him taking the next step and realizing that the Nightwatcher's Cultivation's boon and curse was really what saved Roshar. Everything from his story was important, insightful and wonderful. I loved his Third Ideal, I loved discovering his powers, I loved that he was Odium's preferred champion.... damnation this book was phenomenal. 

Will probably post more reactions on ALL THE OTHER THINGS when I have time, but my goodness what a wild ride that was. 

And I think I speak for all of us when I say: GIVE ME BOOK FOUR ALREADY! You've had a week, Sanderson!

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On 11/14/2017 at 0:30 AM, Leyrann said:

So much agreed here. Dalinar was absolutely awesome when he denied Odium. Free will > evil gods.

I think he's gonna be a Radiant, actually. Just not yet, though. Sure want to see how this is going to develop in the future!
 

I'm more interested in seeing if he'll be able to revive his swords spren as it is and make a bond out of that.  I mean, he's actually made progress with it. He was told not to pretend that it's his friend, yet he respects it and treats it as an actual entity, she saved him by jumping the fused, she told him her name. That seems to be progression of sorts, i mean with everything else going wacky, who knows.

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I loved reading this book. I broke down in tears when Elhokar died. To see him with his child in one arm, Shallan's photo of the man he could be in the other, speaking the Words...I think that's the toughest scene I've read in the entire series.

Part 5 was full of tons and tons of reveals. Dalinar's Ascension was a highlight of the book. So much Cosmere goodness going on in this one lol. 

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On 14/11/2017 at 8:58 PM, Steeldancer said:

DIE SHALLADIN DIE 

Thank goodness. 

That was... 

Amazing

Wit you bastard. Attracting a cryptic...

Dalinar... Sort of ascended? 

Amaram totally did the double weilding thing. 

2 new Windrunners. Storms I loved Lopens oath. Loved it. So much. That was HILARIOUS. 

And dalinars struggles... Holy cow. I nearly cried.

renarin and a corrupted yet good Spren?

jez was who we thought he was, and FREAKING MOASH KILLED HIM? I AM GOING TO STRANGLE UOU MOASH

Taln. Let it be known. Taln is my man. Insult him at your own risk. 

Szeth. Was awesome.

as was lift. 

Storms this was stuff I didn't expect until book 5! 

Im glad Kaladin failed to find his fourth oath. Would have felt repetitive. I would like to see some more growth there. 

Also, HA to the Shalladin shippers. 

Also, Adolins sword? If he's not going to heal it then I don't know what will. He's awesome with that sword. 

This book was amazing. I need to reread that letter.

im almost underwhelmed by the secret of the Recreance. But at the same time...

also, Taran is going full evil. Fantastic. 

Siblings of the Stormfather? Flying ships? I AM SO EXCITEEEEEEEE I WANT FLYING SHIPS TO BOMBARD ODIUM. 

So many awesome things in this book. 

What broke Jasnah?

shadesmar was awesome. 

Renarin. 

Things. 

Epicness. 

Can I even describe the experience of reading this book? It was so DAMNATION good. 

Yes.

Also:

"DESTROY...

...EVIL"

I always imagine that as Nightblood's voice but suddenly not cheerful and so distorted

Also to everyone's speaking about Shallan:
1. When Shallan lost herself, I originally thought it would be a repeat of Kaladin in WoR and I'm happy it wasn't

2. In my opinion, what she experienced wasn't MPD but a separate thing, a product of her self delusion mixed with her powers.

3. I think her attraction to Kaladin wasn't so much intended to be a genuine option for her. To me it seemed obvious that it would eventually turn to Adolin. I think it was more intended to intensify her conflict with Veil and Radiant -- Adolin being Shallan's own choice. Finally, I though it was to get Kaladin's romantic plot started. I think it's now set up to actually happen in other books.

Things that made me smile:

- Drehy's homosexuality coming to the front and the shattering of the gender roles with woman fighters being accepted and Dalinar learning to write

 

Finally:

YOU. CANNOT. HAVE. MY. PAIN.

Chills. And also the character change is shown so much in that one moment.

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