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[OB] Full Book Reactions / Full Spoilers Thread

827 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

Considering he's doing exactly what Dalinar rejected, that was my interpretation. 

At the very least he's being set up as Kaladin's nemesis especially with Amaram and Sadeas out of the way (and Roshone being kinda forgiven). 

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28 minutes ago, SLNC said:

No one forces you to read them.

All I can read here is "Stop liking what I don't like".

Shouldn't we be allowed to express our malcontent and confusion about the whole topic? Why should we not be allowed to discuss it?

Maybe I'm overreacting, but trying to silence a certain discussion is shameful. And something I react allergic to.

Live and let live.

:) I was wondering if I would have to come back and explain why I'm so tired of the love triangle shipping threads. Should have just explained originally and not left it for later. Its really simple, I loved the dynamic between the three of them, the friendship, the having their backs and all the non-romantic parts. Unfortunately I am incapable of speaking of this in the shard because as soon as I bring up the topic its taken over by shipping. I am indeed not reading the shipping threads and I don't mind if people talk about them. However I am not allowed to talk of the topic from the angle I am interested in as the discussion is always twisted very fast. This has made me slightly bitter of the love triangle discussion. Maybe I can make a non-romance thread about the three of them later on. And pray the thread isn't "corrupted" :P.

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9 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I loved the dynamic between the three of them, the friendship, the having their backs and all the non-romantic parts.

I agree. Brandon should have never even started the romantic tension, yet he did and it is completely normal, that those implications are being added to the discussion of how the three might interact in the future, because, quite frankly, even though Kaladin felt acceptance afterwards, he very much respects Adolin and I can't help but feeling like the now fully manifested romantic relationship between Adolin and Shallan will have ramifications for how Kaladin will act towards Shallan. More reserved and professional, instead of personal. Like how he already did whenever Adolin was around. That is just the nature of romantic relationships in close-knit friendships in a trio. Someone will always get third wheeled.

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1 minute ago, SLNC said:

I agree. Brandon should have never even started the romantic tension, yet he did and it is completely normal, that those implications are being added to the discussion of how the three might interact in the future, because, quite frankly, even though Kaladin felt acceptance afterwards, he very much respects Adolin and I can't help but feeling like the now fully manifested romantic relationship between Adolin and Shallan will have ramifications for how Kaladin will act towards Shallan. More reserved and professional, instead of personal. Like how he already did whenever Adolin was around. That is just the nature of romantic relationships in close-knit friendships between multiple persons. Someone will always get third wheeled.

Thats quite likely, although this whole book Shallan was a mess. I think even in OB the glue of the relationship between the 3 was Adolin, and I really really hope he and Kaladin keep on been best friends as it was really beautiful. I think Shallan and Kaladin may eventually be alright, if a bit more distant once Shallan figures out her personas. The good thing of going forward is that Adolin has zero jalaeusy or self-pity despite having plenty of chances to do so. Even when he thought he would have to step aside he didn't blame anyone, not Kaladin, not Shallan, not himself. Since he may treat things normally in the future its likely Kaladin and Shallan will eventually relax around each other. And hopefully the three can return to the perfect synergy they had in this book.

And thank you for giving me the chance to talk of this :D. I've realized I really wanted to speak of this since I finished OB but didn't have the chance ^^.

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One of the things I was really looking forward to in this book was Kaladin's return to Hearthstone ,but it turned out to be extremely unsatisfactory.

I had hoped it would at least take up part one of the book but it barely lasted more than a single chapter and seemed primarily focused on quickly (and disappointingly ) tying up the minor plot threads of Kal's relationship with Roshone, Laral and his parents.

I had hoped that he'd at least return at some point , especially considering his vow to protect his baby brother ( and I did not see that coming wow) but he never seems to think about Oroden after that chapter and only once even thinks of Hearthstone after that. 

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42 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Alright. Finally finished. 

There's just so much. 

Mayalaran! Blade awakening is totally I'm the works. 

DALINAR MADE A STORMING PERPENDICULARITY AND PARTIALLY ASCENDED! 

Amaram... 

Taravangian... Pretty sure at this point my long running Bondsmith theory is dead at the bottom of the sea of beads. 

Azure... Hi Vivenna, nice to see your not actually a black hole. And cool to see your sentient blade only makes people drab instead of vaporizing everything it touches. (So uh... This raises even more questions on what exactly happened with Nightblood to make him so ridiculously powerful) 

Renarin... Oh man... I wanted Glys to just be normal. But considering Sja-anat, this could still not suck for you. 

Moash... Vyre.... Whatever you are now. What the hell snapped in tour brain man. You're so much worse than I thought you could possibly be. 

Wit. So you saved Elhokar's trapped an lonely spren. Good on you. 

Finally Calderis :). I was wondering when you would appear, and I'm kind of surprised your post was so short. Wondering how far along Extesian is. Also, is it weird one of the things I'm looking most forward to of the next few weeks is Maxal's 10,000 word analysis of Adolin in OB? ^^

I told you T was not going the bondsmith way, as best he is an unwitting tool of Cultivation. Moash is like I said a few times the past year the biggest traitor all around. He tried to killed Kaladin on WoR! There is NOTHING worse than betraying your friends. After that redemption was maybe possible but very, very slim. But there he happily went down the abyss into evilness. You left out your reaction to Amaram to finish the trio;). I'm a bit sad we got no new Gavilar information, as he was another possibly very dark character.

 

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What worries me most about Moash is that the one thing that would cement him on Odium's side would be the murder of a fellow bridgeman, and i don't think i can take that. So if he could just trip into a pyre offscreen and the first Venli pov is the parshmen mourning around his ashes, i wouldn't blame you Brandon.

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2 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I'm a bit sad we got no new Gavilar information, as he was another possibly very dark character.

 

Other than that Eshonai prologue , which was imo completely useless since it only told us what we already knew.

And since we've already seen Dalinar's backstory and the only part of Eshonai's that might have involved Gavilar , the only way we're gonna get more info on Gavilar is through a Jasnah or possibly a Navani (probably not) backstory.

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2 minutes ago, Darvys said:

What worries me most about Moash is that the one thing that would cement him on Odium's side would be the murder of a fellow bridgeman, and i don't think i can take that. So if he could just trip into a pyre offscreen and the first Venli pov is the parshmen mourning around his ashes, i wouldn't blame you Brandon.

That would be nice. I've said since the end of WoR that the death Moash needed was to trip from his horse and break his neck. Sadly I doubt he can die that easily now.

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1 minute ago, Darvys said:

What worries me most about Moash is that the one thing that would cement him on Odium's side would be the murder of a fellow bridgeman, and i don't think i can take that. So if he could just trip into a pyre offscreen and the first Venli pov is the parshmen mourning around his ashes, i wouldn't blame you Brandon.

Ah I wish.

Besides Moash is now Vyre , god killer and Windrunner ,I doubt he's gonna have an insignificant role to play (in the next book at least)

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1 hour ago, HarryKal said:

After so much wait...finally finished the book. Need to do a reread slowly to find what I missed the first time. 

Things I liked in the same order

1. Dalinar...wow just wow.. he is broken in so many ways but still the way held himself against Odium. 

2. Kaladin..i too liked that he didn't said the next ideal and saved everything all by himself. The scene where he froze in the middle of battle unable to decide what is right is really heartening 

3. Adolin...he proves to everyone that you can be a hero without being radiant. Also I think he will bring back his Spren alive.. already got the name.. 

4. Jasnah...both brainy and really can kick bad guys with style.. I really thought there will be something between her and Kal.. still not discarded that theory

5. Bridge 4... together they are good and can face anything with joking around

6. All conversation between the sword nimi and Lift or szeth

Things I have complaint about

1. Shallan..even though she is one of the main character there are lots of chapters with same kind of internal discussion between different avatars of her... also I felt like always she is able to achieve her goals without much difficulty 

2.  Moash...why do we need this??? It's similar to kaladin chapters from book 1.

3. Very less Kaladin POV.. many people are seeing kal as main protagonist of SA series...but in book 3 his POV is less

4. Many people from bridge 4 becoming radiant is too convenient

I am doing a re-read (first-listen?) with the audio book. It helps with most of the names that I couldn't pronounce, as I have read so fast that I just had the shape of them in mind. 

I have no comment on your likes, I agree with everything you said.

I absolutely hated Moash's chapters. But I don't think he'll be Odium's champion. I am with you on this, It's like Kaladin but from the other direction. Can he see what is wrong with his ideas or not, I don't know.

For number 4, It says that each order would see a surge in their numbers on desolations. Plus it's a lot easier now that they know what to look for. Kaladin had to figure it out all by himself, but Lopen told them to the the-one-handed-wanna-be-radiant Taylen right away.

 

Anyway did you guys see that the Skybreakers gave a shardblade to Heralan? He had became a squire of Skybreakers according to Mraize's letter, and he wasn't in any other secret order. So the only one who could have given the shards to Heralan were the Skybreakers. They think the same as Pattern. Syl hates everyone with shards, but Pattern and Skybreakers don't think so. 

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27 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I think even in OB the glue of the relationship between the 3 was Adolin, and I really really hope he and Kaladin keep on been best friends as it was really beautiful.

I don't doubt that they will. I really liked that part too. I don't see Adolin as the glue though. I more have seen him as a wall between Kaladin and Shallan. I don't want to diminish his role. He certainly brought a lot to the table during their whole adventure through Kholinar and Shadesmar and was important in cheering Kaladin up, but regarding how Shallan and Kaladin worked together? I actually saw him as a wall.

27 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I think Shallan and Kaladin may eventually be alright, if a bit more distant once Shallan figures out her personas.

That is what I am afraid of. Their dialogue and their relationship in general is something, that I think is some of the best and most emotionally moving stuff Brandon has ever written. I would be very disappointed, if we instead get some cheesy romance between Shallan and Adolin as a replacement.

39 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

The good thing of going forward is that Adolin has zero jalaeusy or self-pity despite having plenty of chances to do so. Even when he thought he would have to step aside he didn't blame anyone, not Kaladin, not Shallan, not himself. Since he may treat things normally in the future its likely Kaladin and Shallan will eventually relax around each other. And hopefully the three can return to the perfect synergy they had in this book.

That is true. Adolin really deserves credit for that. Though I don't know if that might change after him realizing that a significant part of Shallan (Veil, which has been established as being a part of her and not something different), doesn't love him.

They had synergy in this book, but I'd rate it as far from perfect. It might become better, but I am not that optimistic about it. But I am a pessimist by nature.

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Guys any idea on siblings of storm father? He mentioned that there are two more who can bond with bondsmith

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13 minutes ago, HarryKal said:

Guys any idea on siblings of storm father? He mentioned that there are two more who can bond with bondsmith

The second one is almost certainly the Nightwatcher. No clue on the third.

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Moash is gonna be Venom to Kaladin's Spider-Man. Im calling it.

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Rereading this something occurred to me that I don’t think has been brought up. Everyone assumes that Urithiru is of the KR but Shallan talks about the red strata pattern that runs through the tower.  Maybe this is of Odium and would explain way they can’t infuse the cord. It might take the dark light to infuse which Renarin might be able to do.

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@Devisor We shouldn't think Odium every time we see red, Urithiru has been pure for millenia, i doubt Re-Shefir had the ability or the intellect to corrupt it in any way and Odium himself has only recently started taking a hand in events, and only indirectly from fear of Cultivation.

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I'd like to know what happens next.... That said I thought part 5 was very good, I like that several open threads were closed but at the same time plently left open/new ones opened.

At the end of part 4 I made some comments about what I wanted/thought going into part 5 (quoted form the part 4 reactions topic):

Quote

So just through part 4, quick fire thoughts:

  1. A lot of lore and worldbuilding
  2. It seemed a little slow in places, I know it gave the characters more depth/time to develop but at the same time felt like some things could happen faster
  3. I was really hoping to see more of Adolin trying to talk to his dead spren (Adolin reviving his sword is one of my favourite theories)
  4. I really really hope that somehow the coalition that's just fallen apart can be fixed or at least partly fixed in part 5.
  5. I'd really like Mr T to die or at least be discredited this book
  6. I hope the return of Kaladin, Shallan and Adolin will a. happen early in part V and b. fix some things somehow
  7. We still haven't had the scene from the front of the book
  8. When did Odium get connected to the Parshmen - was he their divinity before the ancient humans arrived? Or is his involvement more recent?

So to points 1 & 2 part 5 gave us a pretty amazing increase in pace.

To point 3 the scene with the sword telling Adolin it's name was great - I'd like to see him become an Edgedancer but I do so other's people's points about it being good to have some un-powered perspectives AND he really doesn't seem very broken.

To point 4 we did seem to get a partial fixing, no magic quick fix but steps in the right direction :)

Point 5, Mr T... Having seen Szeth's return he obviously had no choice but to either come clean on part of what he'd done or somehow make Dalinar irrelevant/dead - and he didn't seem able to take the second option; I'm glad Dalinar doesn't fully trust him anymore but I'm worried by what he's going to do next - I think his intention is what we heard - to save only his city as he thinks it's all he can do. I like the theory that there's some kind of other result unknown to him embedded into the diagram by Cultivation but I just don't know. I was disappointed that Dalinar thought of the idea that Mr T could be behind the attack on Urithiru but then dismissed it, I wanted him to get that right...

Point 6 - happened pretty nicely.

Point 7 - the scene came and it was great.

Point 8  - the theory I came to early in Part 5 was that Honor and Cultivation had been the Parshmen divinities and the bulk of humans had arrived with Odium; though I think the Heralds came from somewhere else. Then somehow in time the two sides swapped Parshmen turned to Odium and humans turned to Honor.

Other thoughts

  • I now think that the "them" that Dalinar is meant to unite is Humans and Parshmen - I'm hoping that Venli is going to lead a breakway group of Singers/Listeners that then side with Dalinar
  • I understand Nin's choice - BUT I don't understand how a large number of Highspren would go along with it - some yes but surely not the Highspren of all those Skybreakers
  • Is Nin going to get himself killed by Moash when he goes to offer his services to Odium?
  • Taln and Shallash appeared at the avengers assemble moment but then we didn't seem to see them do anything in the actual fight - what's next for them?
  • Shallan and the ghostbloods, where is this going - also what are the Ghostbloods planning, I don't think they're on Odium's side (at least not intentionally) but I don't think they're for Honor or Cultivation (or Dalinar's cause) specifically either. Also in this space - what caused Jasnah and the Ghostbloods to become enemies?
  • Who else genuinely thought that Dalinar was going to be turned? (and then was so glad when it didn't happen)
  • What limits will be placed on Dalinar's ability to summon the perpendicularity? - if he can do that any time he wants to it seems like far too powerful an ability unless perhaps the "limit" will be the existence of stormlight using surgebinders on the other side meaning it's a two edged sword.
  • Is surgebinding originally of Odium or of Honor? It seems strange that the powers of the fused (provided by Odium or at least that is what we assume) appear to be the same abilities as the powers provided by Honor/Cultivation -> though if the human divinity was orriginally Odium and they'd destroyed their previous world with Surgebinding perhaps Surgebinding is Odium's invention and Honor copied it somehow?
  • Who is Odium's champion going to be, Moash? Nin? what about Mr T? Could Cultivation's plan be to ensure that Odium ends up with a champion (Mr T) who will fail at the right time?

I'd like to do a much much much slower re-read.

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16 hours ago, WalksIntoMordor said:

I had actually before this book had a theory that the Death Rattles were associated with Voidbinding in some way - the fact that they were capitalized was a weird clue.  Finding out how much of the stuff that had been taken for granted, though (Death Rattles, the Thrill) were more than we thought... that was amazingly well-written, I think.

You know what else is capitalized? The Weeping. Could an unmade be associated with the Weeping? I know Kaladin has seasonal affective disorder which causes him to to be depressed during the Weeping, but could his illness be triggered or caused by him sensing something of an unmade?

 

12 hours ago, Fulminato said:

1) odium in the dialogue whit Mr T. is amaze of the diagram (“You did this without access to Fortune, or the Spiritual Realm? Truly incredible.”) , and azure "I realize you’re all eager to return to your lands. I can even believe that—through some tide of Fortune—Kaladin Stormblessed has foreseen some danger.”

the sphere can foretell the future, at on extend. but need someone invested to works properly

2) in warbreaker the people think the returned can see the future in the painting, i suppose, like the sphere, a sufficient invested person can make this work.

I've had a couple of additional thoughts on the orb and painting. I think it's confirmed in the text that the orb is from a different world. Note this conversation: “The lighthouse keeper wanted the Stormlight,” Kaladin said. “He kept it in some kind of globe.” Captain Ico grunted. “Foreign technology,” he said. “Dangerous. Draws the wrong spren.” He shook his head. “At Celebrant, the moneychangers have perfect gemstones that can hold the light indefinitely. Similar.”

Someone also mentioned its similarity to the Elantrian orb in Secret History. It's been a while since I read that, but my guess is that the orb is from Sel. Also the lighthouse keeper seems to be from Sel. I'm not sure how this related to Fortune, or if it is using some Selish magic along with stormlight. 

Regarding the painting, I think it could be Lightsong's red painting. He notices that he can see a scene within it, even though it appears to be all red random brush strokes.

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4 hours ago, Stromblessed said:

Ikr , I thought we'd seen the end of Moash's errant meddling after he killed Elhokar and finally got some closure (especially since he salutes Kal after killing Elhokar) but then no he has to go and kill storming Jezrien and then become some whole new villain.

 

Speaking of that what are the odds of Moash becoming Odium's Champion ?

He sure seems to be getting a lot of built up seeing as how he has the support of both the Singers and the Fused plus seems to be almost as good as Kaladin in fighting , not to mention the whole killing Jezrien (with some kind of special knife which seems only he can use) and then taking his Honorblade

I suspect that blade was taken from Azure when the ship was overhauled.  If it is a Nightblood-as-it-should-have-been it may be able to kill in two or all three realms and may be a danger to even be handled by at least certain types of invested beings.

The heralds may be like the Fused in that a normal death will cause them to be reborn on Braize but able to come to Roshar.

That blade seems a pretty large Checkov's Gun to me.  I wonder if it could slice a piece off of Odium.

 

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57 minutes ago, Devisor said:

Rereading this something occurred to me that I don’t think has been brought up. Everyone assumes that Urithiru is of the KR but Shallan talks about the red strata pattern that runs through the tower.  Maybe this is of Odium and would explain way they can’t infuse the cord. It might take the dark light to infuse which Renarin might be able to do.

“Though many wished Urithiru to be built in Alethela, it was obvious that it could not be. And so it was that we asked for it to be placed westward, in the place nearest to Honor.”

WotK, Chapter 35 epigraph 

and the epigraphs from the gems-stormlight-powered-library renforce the idea 

I am worried about the tower’s protections failing. If we are not safe from the Unmade here, then where? —From drawer 3-11, garnet

Oathbringer chapter 73 

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Ok, I haven't read much of other reactions, but it seems no-one else is bothered by the fact, that Adolins spren name is Mayalaran and we have May Aladar in the book too. That's just suspiciously similar names :ph34r:

Also, I think I deserve an Honorspren of my own. I promised by fiancee to watch Stranger Things with her and I had to stop reading just at the "I am Unity" line to fulfill my oath... I'm impressed by myself.

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Finished the book last night and felt like I needed to sleep on it before posting my thoughts here. 

Parts 1-4 I absolutely loved. I think it’s some of Brandon’s best writing. This was the first time I really started having an emotional connection to most of the characters. The highlights were the Bridge 4 chapters which were completely unexpected. Rock’s POV was absolutely beautiful. I liked the Kholinar expedition although I felt like it was a little slow up until the ending which very rushed. The Shadesmar adventure was amazing I likes every bit of it. I’m actually glad we saw two deaths of significance. As sad as they were it added some reality of consequences I think were lacking in the first two books. Dalinar. I was actually a little worried other characters would overshadow him after the preview chapters. Not the case at all. His story is by far the most tragic.  

Part 5... I feel like I need to reread this. There seemed to be way too much going on. I guess this is a case of my expectations not being met but being exceeded and maybe a little too much. Going in to this book being the third I thought it would still be setting the stage for a showdown with Odium. Instead we got a full on battle with him and for whatever reason it seemed too soon. I was actually thinking Dalinar would end up being Odiums champion and would have to fight Szeth. It would have been tragic yet I feel like that would have been a viable path. Instead Dalinar Ascends.. I’m probably not expressing this well but the entire battle with Odium corrupting Amaram and his soldiers then Dalinar combining the three realms just felt way too soon. I think a re-read with out all the anticipation of how it will end will help a lot. I did however like several of the character arcs like Kaladin, Szeth and Adolin. 

I liked the book though. I liked it a lot probably more than the first two. We learned a lot more than I would have ever imagined.

Only major thing that bothered me was the lack of any consequence for Adolin murdering Sadeas. I have to give maxal credit for predicting this as I thought it was impossible. I guess since Adolin confesses this to Dalinar at the very end it could come up again in the next book but just feels like by then so much tension would be lost. 

 

The one other thing that was a tiny bit of a let down was the interludes. Venli’s were pretty good but the rest just were not as impactful as the previous books. 

 

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4 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

Only major thing that bothered me was the lack of any consequence for Adolin murdering Sadeas. I have to give maxal credit for predicting this as I thought it was impossible. I guess since Adolin confesses this to Dalinar at the very end it could come up again in the next book but just feels like by then so much tension would be lost. 

I thought this way at first,  until I read a reaction to the book that pointed out that the murder made it so that Amaram and his men were willing to turn.  The murder has not yet had personal ramifications for Adolin, nor political ramifications in the coalition,  which is what everyone expected, but it did have a significant impact to the plot.

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11 hours ago, Tetrisash said:

For some clarification, maybe I'm missing it, but do we have any more light shed on the Sons of Honor and the Ghostbloods? The Sons of Honor, through Amaram, I got the impression their society has the goal of helping the Listeners reclaim their world from the humans. The Diagram, I feel it was Taravangian's plan the whole time to unite all he could and be the human leader under Odium's rule. The Ghostbloods are still ??? to me. Maybe the only secret society that doesn't suck?

I, personally, would like to know what happened to the rest of them. Amaram found out about the Heralds and ragequit Vorinism, but did the others stay true to their task? Did Odium just talk to Amaram, or to the rest of them too?

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