[OB] Part 3 Reactions

[Nasicus]

I feel like I'm a bad person.

Why? Because when the street boy died it was the first time since the first book that I was happy with a Shallan chapter.

I just don't like her or didn't (well probably still don't). Everything no matter what she wanted to do alwas succeeded, no matter how stupid, how new the experience (stabbing herself through the hand, arrow in the head, etc etc etc). She could do anything. ANYTHING. Compared to other characters who always have fallbacks (for example: WHY GOD BRANDON WHY MUST KALADIN HAVE ANOTHER BREAKDOWN? HE DOESNT DESERVE IT!). For me it feels like this scene was the firs time she failed. Hopefully now she also gets herself together (well she probably will, thanks to Wit) and becomes a a more likeable character.... I don't know if I will ever grow back to liking her, as I once did somewhere i the first book.

Do you guys like her???

Apart from dead I'm really sad that Elhokar had to die...this will only bring Kaladin even MORE to desperation and grievance  Though I guess he will be the first to swear the fourth ideal since in chapter 86 the record from a gem is: [...]Everyone says I will swear the Fourth Ideal soon, and in so doing, earn my armor. I simply don't think that I can. Am I not supposed to want to help people?[..]. I guess Kaladin will soon be in this "state" because he cannot (could not) decide which people to help.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Nasicus

[Eva]

I was really upset over Sanderson's handling of Elokar's death.  I really felt he betrayed him.  Not one character mourned him.  That was Adolin's king, nothing.  Kadolin sacrificed him, nothing.  Someone mentioned Martin, Sanderson is not Martin.  I had come to empasize with Elokar, due Sanderson's characterization and situations.  Then, kill him, too convienent, all to get someone else on the throne?  When the author betrays one character, who will he betray next.

[VirtuousTraveller]

31 minutes ago, Eva said:

I was really upset over Sanderson's handling of Elokar's death.  I really felt he betrayed him.  Not one character mourned him.  That was Adolin's king, nothing.  Kadolin sacrificed him, nothing.  Someone mentioned Martin, Sanderson is not Martin.  I had come to empasize with Elokar, due Sanderson's characterization and situations.  Then, kill him, too convienent, all to get someone else on the throne?  When the author betrays one character, who will he betray next.

I feel you on this, but I'm giving Brandon some time to make this right in the story.  There wasn't a lot of time for anyone to mourn; they were all thrown into Shadesmar pretty fast after Moash killed him.  There's still two parts of this monster book to get through! =)

[WhiteLeeopard]

5 hours ago, Nasicus said:

I feel like I'm a bad person.

Why? Because when the street boy died it was the first time since the first book that I was happy with a Shallan chapter.

I just don't like her or didn't (well probably still don't). Everything no matter what she wanted to do alwas succeeded, no matter how stupid, how new the experience (stabbing herself through the hand, arrow in the head, etc etc etc). She could do anything. ANYTHING. Compared to other characters who always have fallbacks (for example: WHY GOD BRANDON WHY MUST KALADIN HAVE ANOTHER BREAKDOWN? HE DOESNT DESERVE IT!). For me it feels like this scene was the firs time she failed. Hopefully now she also gets herself together (well she probably will, thanks to Wit) and becomes a a more likeable character.... I don't know if I will ever grow back to liking her, as I once did somewhere i the first book.

Do you guys like her???

I feel you. I didn't go so far as to dislike her, but I was always lukewarm towards her at best. For the reasons you said, always suceeding no matter what with very little experience or knowledge. I'll upvote you once they refresh if I remember.

53 minutes ago, Eva said:

I was really upset over Sanderson's handling of Elokar's death.  I really felt he betrayed him.  Not one character mourned him.  That was Adolin's king, nothing.  Kadolin sacrificed him, nothing.  Someone mentioned Martin, Sanderson is not Martin.  I had come to empasize with Elokar, due Sanderson's characterization and situations.  Then, kill him, too convienent, all to get someone else on the throne?  When the author betrays one character, who will he betray next.

I wasn't upset over that, but that may be because of how I felt towards him. In WoK I mildly disliked Elhokar, on WoR I was neutral towards him. Then on OB he started rising up as a star...to go out with glory trying to save instead of whimpering. I found it sad, but fitting and not a character betrayal. However I can totally feel why some readers would feel betrayed. 

I'd however argue its not fair to accuse other characters of not grieving. The amount of things they had on their plate was enormous. Shallan was a hair away from open insanity, Kaladin was semi-catatonic, Adolin was left to pick up the pieces and keep them together, while knowing he failed his king and cousin, lost his city and failed thousands of people in Kholinar.

[Toaster Retribution]

10 hours ago, Nasicus said:

I feel like I'm a bad person.

Why? Because when the street boy died it was the first time since the first book that I was happy with a Shallan chapter.

I just don't like her or didn't (well probably still don't). Everything no matter what she wanted to do alwas succeeded, no matter how stupid, how new the experience (stabbing herself through the hand, arrow in the head, etc etc etc). She could do anything. ANYTHING. Compared to other characters who always have fallbacks (for example: WHY GOD BRANDON WHY MUST KALADIN HAVE ANOTHER BREAKDOWN? HE DOESNT DESERVE IT!). For me it feels like this scene was the firs time she failed. Hopefully now she also gets herself together (well she probably will, thanks to Wit) and becomes a a more likeable character.... I don't know if I will ever grow back to liking her, as I once did somewhere i the first book.

Do you guys like her???

I am a big fan if Shallan, and I think that her character needed a tremendous amount of success work. She has had a very rough childhood (defenitely no easy life), and during the entirety of Oathbringer this far, she has suffered from a mental breakdown. The reason for why she needed her success is that she required a motivation to create a split personality. If Veil hadn't worked, then Shallan wouldn't have kept her. The point of her arc seems to have been to build up great success by stretching Shallan thin mentally, and then have everything come crashing down upon her. 

[IndigoAjah]

11 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

The thing is, Kaladin was necessary to get them there, and to bring power in form of the squires (Skar and Drehy were obviously useful). 

And as for Shallan, she is very good at hiding her feelings and problems. We really can't blame Dalinar for not knowing. In fact, based on the knowledge he has of her, bringing her to Kholinar is a good decision.

It is strange that they didn't bring Jasnah though. She probably wanted to research Urithiru.

Or he feared putting of his eggs in one basket - if he lost his 3  experienced loyal Radiants all at once, it would be a huge blow, ditto losing his Commander of the Guard/a major leader (esp one with a growing Radiant squad), his heir, the King AND his best scholar and next in line to the throne after Adolin, Renarin and a child they were aiming to save. And if they were attacked at base, having Jasnah as a Radiant to fight at home would be key

[IndigoAjah]

6 hours ago, Eva said:

I was really upset over Sanderson's handling of Elokar's death.  I really felt he betrayed him.  Not one character mourned him.  That was Adolin's king, nothing.  Kadolin sacrificed him, nothing.  Someone mentioned Martin, Sanderson is not Martin.  I had come to empasize with Elokar, due Sanderson's characterization and situations.  Then, kill him, too convienent, all to get someone else on the throne?  When the author betrays one character, who will he betray next.

This is a fair criticism. Surely we will see more mourning next book? 

[Varion]

21 hours ago, Eva said:

I was really upset over Sanderson's handling of Elokar's death.  I really felt he betrayed him.  Not one character mourned him.  That was Adolin's king, nothing.  Kadolin sacrificed him, nothing.  Someone mentioned Martin, Sanderson is not Martin.  I had come to empasize with Elokar, due Sanderson's characterization and situations.  Then, kill him, too convienent, all to get someone else on the throne?  When the author betrays one character, who will he betray next.

I see this much more as a success by Sanderson. He was able to build a highly complex character, who readers came to empathise with and cheer for, despite all of his failings, and who was tragically killed at his moment of redemption. The very fact that you feel so betrayed proves what a success it was for Sanderson: his job to make you feel a wide range of emotions, including betrayal and grief at the lives lost. You grieved for Elhokar for the unfairness of his death, and in your grief you expressed a sense of betrayal. This is exactly how many people respond to grief in their own lives, by looking for someone, or something to blame. Death is not always meaningful, death is not always deserved, or honorable, or redemptive, and we rebel at that truth.

You say that Kaladin sacrificed him. He did not. He could not save him. To say that it was nothing to him is unfair, as his death at the hands of Moash was clearly one of the major reasons he froze in battle. His death affected him greatly and may cast a very long shadow on Kaladin.

You say that the other characters did not mourn him, but this is also unfair, given that they were on the run and thrust into a completely disorienting and dangerous new realm that they did not understand and could not rest or feel safe in.

Yes, Sanderson could have paused to gives us a scene of grief, but I rather feel that it is truer to Shallan and Adolin's characters that this grief be pushed aside until they are free to examine their feelings more deeply (which may mean, never for Shallan, and for Adolin, once they are back in safety and he does not feel a duty to protect the others). I have not read further, but I daresay Elhokar will be given the farewell he deserves in due time.

People are mentioning G.R.R. Martin because he is famous for killing off major characters, but this is one of the things that makes his books so enthralling -- the stakes are always high because you cannot count on the assumption that the heroes will survive. And more than this, we know as readers that the world and the events are much bigger than any one character. This isn't some cheap writer's trick, designed just for shock value. This is one of the elements that give Martin's (and Sanderson's) books such huge scope, because there are many heroes, many villains, and many characters who are both hero and villain. Yes, we will feel betrayed by the losses of characters we love, but we will also value their lives much higher, and cheer their successes all the more. Sure, Sanderson isn't Martin, but I welcome this aspect of Martin's writing into Sanderson's books, because it makes them all the richer. 

[ScarletSabre]

Just got to Azure fighting with Elhokar and Adolin, and she's wrapped a cloak around her arm, and her sword is cutting through people and making them gray....

CALLING IT NOW, AZURE IS VIVENNA. Or at least using Breath.

[maxal]

Alright I am back. Now is the time for my tremendous review of Part 3 as I am sure many were waiting for if only to flatter my self-inflated ego  So here it is... I entered Part 3 being incredibly hopeful because of two things: 1) @kari-no-sugata told me Adolin actually had POV in it and I was not expecting them in Part 3, I mean the book structure didn't allow them (what happened to the storming thing anyway?) and 2) Adolin's name actually appeared on the Part 3 title page. All good reasons to feel joyful and expectant.

So after reading the After His Father's chapter a few more times , I promptly dig into Part 3. For those who wondered about it, the day was last Saturday morning.

My first pleasant surprise was to find out my previous fear of the Kholinar's story arc to be yet postponed because Shallan needed to fly with Kaladin to Queen Fen did not happen. I smiled at Kaladin being given lands.

The next chapter was Dalinar trecking through temples in Thaylen and I was just as bored as him... I tried to read as quickly as possible through in in order to get to the interesting plot point. His self-stabbing fight was... well... Dalinar-ish. He tries, he really tries, but whatever he does, he remains the Blackthorn up until he listens to stones and merge the building back. I am sure many people will pick up on Bondsmith powers better than I would which is why we'll skip to Kaladin...

Adolin is flight sick. Ah. It was great after seeing everyone being thrilled at flying, being excited over flying, wanting to fly to see Adolin throwing up his lunch, closing his eyes and just hoping it would end. Priceless. My thoughts were here goes many people's hope he'd ever hold this Honorblade and start flying. Nope. Not going to happen, our boy can't keep his dinner down while flying.

Shallan soulcasting our crew was hilarious: Kaladin as the ugly beggar with a purulent face, Adolin as the handsome older man and... Elhokar has a woman. Storms, I have to say Elhokar pretending to be a Highborn woman was amazing, he got on everyone's nerve, including Kaladin. I obviously wondered right here and there where the heck Adolin was dragging them. Uncle Toh? What happened to him anyway? Oh no right. This is Adolin. His tailor. Storming prince.

Then skipping Dalinar spontaneously learning to speak Azish, cute little Lift, essays and some Veil, I really wanted to read Strategist because well huh obvious reasons. Little Adolin again  And this it where I started noticing how Brandon is mixing up the ages and the years.. 23 years ago Adolin was born. 18 and a half years ago, he was a 4 and a half years old boy while Renarin was about one, but eleven years ago Adolin is 12 going on 13...  Is my math wrong or Brandon skipped a year here? Because 11 years ago Adolin should be 12, for him to be 12 going on thirteen, we would need to be past eleven years and a half.... What a bother  So young Adolin is beyond adorable and Dalinar's naivety in thinking "Of course, NOBODY thought little Adolin was annoying as he is so earnest, so interest, IMPOSSIBLE his Generals all thought it is suitable for a boy his age to assist to their meetings". Yeah right. It was glad to see Dalinar being a good father to one of his kiddie though him literally ignoring poor little Renarin was really sad. He plans a long trip, but thinks not of bringing Renarin? Yeah, crap dad Dalinar.

Evi was miserable in this wedding. She did all she could and yet she was miserable. Poor girl. Why did you run away from Rira? What pushed you to even made this alliance? What was it? I want to know so badly...

I liked the Mishim story: the moon who wouldn't want to take her responsibilities. Well, well, sounds like someone we know.

Alright, the story put a great emphasis on Adolin being a fashionista and a fop, so the one time he gets the chance to wears something else than his uniform, what does he choose to wear? A blue powder tailed suit????  This is when a reader starts to better appreciate Dalinar's code of war: long live the Kholin uniform 

By chapter 72, I'll admit I had issues... Here are some of my rambling thoughts...

Maxal rambled thoughts on Saturday because she felt annoyed at Adolin being well.... a bit in the background?

Quote

 

 Also, the whole Kholinar plot is not... really exciting. Nothing is happening! We didn't ever get to read Adolin and Elhokar going to the feast. Things should be happening, but no.

Is this normal?

And yeah, Brandon butchered Adolin's character. He had the building of an interesting character, but he has shrunk back to being bland and one-dimensional. Gee, I really built up a lot of speculations and theories on nothing, now didn't I?

I am even starting to want Shallan to go an explore romance with Kaladin because this would spice things up. And yeah, I wouldn't blame her: Adolin is one boring guy. And bland.

 

In the mean time, Kaladin is making new friends. Shallan sketched Elhokar in his one moment of shinning glory and Dalinar falls into Tanalan's trap, yet again. He sees red and I got scared. And then THE chapter... Poor little Evi. She tried. Oh she tried. She was the man into the Beast but unlike Beauty, she couldn't drag him out of it. She nearly, nearly succeeded, but evil Skar had to send Dalinar to the battlefield where he thinks he is happy. No Dalinar, you weren't happy. Do you know when you were happy? When you were spending time with Adolin, when Evi was not crying.

And now little Evi escapes trying to plead for mercy. Dalinar kills the messengers. He never knew. He never knew he burned her alive and destroyed a whole city: wonders why the world does not want to ally itself with him... Go figure. His one redeeming quality is his refusal to have Evi turned into a traitor.

Will the boys ever learn the truth?

Shallan's childish irresponsible ways finally got to her. I'll admit I was starting to feel those Veil chapters were dragging... Here is another extract of my thoughts at the time:

Maxal fretting yet again, just ignore her 

Quote

And Veil's narrative just isn't interesting. This has gone on for too long now. 700 pages of Shallan not being Shallan: it is way too long. Resolution should have happened before.

And then, well resolution happened  I mean, I don't really like Veil: I prefer Shallan, so when Grunt dies and the illusion wears off, I was really pleased and it gave us Chapter 82 which was really... touching. Now, I have never liked Wit, but here, I really did. Accept the pain, but don't accept that you deserve it. Oh this was nice and then she lets Adolin sees some of Veil, bleary eyed Adolin who stayed up all night worried for her.

The palace fight was awesome. OK, I'll admit, I never liked Elhokar. I have been rooting for him to die since the beginning, but really when he did die, I was speechless. Just as he was saying the first ideal, just as he was finally doing the right thing... Oh my. This was a sad one. I got to me though I'll admit I was convinced he wasn't really dead... you mean faked death will do this to you  

And then our crew falls into Shadesmar, Adolin nearly drowns, is properly frightened and sees weird sprens everywhere. I'll admit these are dots I only connected later.

[Zaineph]

I honestly have no idea how to convey my feelings for part 3. I absolutely loved it, even if I spent most of time reading it with my head in my hands.

The Battle of Kholinar will go down as one of my favourite ever scenes to read. From the bits where Kaladin, Drehy and Skar burst through the doors with stormlight glowing from them, the part where I realised that is was Viv (only realised in a Crimson to break), all of Kaladin's squads from both sides slaughtering each other and finally Elhokar's death at the hands of Moash. I hadn't realised how much I'd grown to like Elhokar up until then.

I kept begging for the carnage to stop, but oh wow. It was emotionally hard to read but it was good.

Did anyone else notice that in this part we had 2 sieges. The one from Dalinar's flash back and of Kholinar. Both had us on different sides of the siege ending with a victory for the Sieging army and yet neither gave us a happy outcome.

[Pyromie]

Is wit's story hinting that Cultivation's power lives in the aimians?

Edited November 21, 2017 by Pyromie

[MistbornAlpaca]

I just read chapter 76, Dalinar's flashback when he burns the Rift, and I am close to tears right now. Best Chapter, Ever! So much emotion packed into that short chapter. Why Dalinar, why!?

Edited November 22, 2017 by MasterJack

[Fifth of Daybreak]

On 11/20/2017 at 10:44 PM, maxal said:

And yeah, Brandon butchered Adolin's character. He had the building of an interesting character, but he has shrunk back to being bland and one-dimensional.

Welcome back! I have to say I am surprised this was your reaction. I honestly loved the way Adolin was handled in Kholinar (with the obvious exception of the lack of viewpoint time.) I thought it was nice to finally see him on screen displaying his fashion side, it's one of the only hobbies we've seen him display other than dueling. The fact that it makes other people, especially other lighteyes, immediately write him off as a for I thought made a lot of sense given what we learn of Evi and the huge differences between her and Alethi culture. It really smacked into me that Dalinar's influence has kept Adolin grounded in a way we haven't appreciated before.

 

I definitely agree that his storylines feel anticlimactic, I just don't think it's out of character.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Fifth of Daybreak

[maxal]

9 hours ago, Fifth of Daybreak said:

Welcome back! I have to say I am surprised this was your reaction. I honestly loved the way Adolin was handled in Kholinar (with the obvious exception of the lack of viewpoint time.) I thought it was nice to finally see him on screen displaying his fashion side, it's one of the only hobbies we've seen him display other than dueling. The fact that it makes other people, especially other lighteyes, immediately write him off as a for I thought made a lot of sense given what we learn of Evi and the huge differences between her and Alethi culture. It really smacked into me that Dalinar's influence has kept Adolin grounded in a way we haven't appreciated before.

 

I definitely agree that his storylines feel anticlimactic, I just don't think it's out of character.

I will admit this book was uneven for me: while there were many great scenes, I also felt there were many parts which dragged and lack drama/tension. Part 3 was especially rich in those as I found the Veil arc was a tad too introspective and long just as I found the Kaladin arc with the guards a bit superfluous. It feels both arcs would have been improved if Brandon had played in Adolin and Elhokar's characters better: they were there, but they did little.

In Kholinar, prior to the palace attack, I felt Adolin was quite... superficial. He's there, but at the same time, he isn't there. Going into Kholinar I expected the characters to all work together, but instead Brandon split it into two individual arc revolving solely on Shallan and Kaladin: this was a disappointment, Adolin felt very one dimensional within this part: oh he has moments, but they are so diluted within the narrative it was too sparse to really form character development.

The fashion side was a nice touch, but it was more or less ruined by being us not seeing the party they went to. I honestly didn't care about the guards, I wanted the story to tell me what happens inside the lighteyed house.

The touch of Evi and little Adolin are among my favorite scenes in the book, but they would have worked better if Adolin's main narrative was made to echo them.

I didn't mean to say it was out of character, just the lack of exposure made me read him as superficial and one-dimensional. Also, several of his arcs were really anti-climatic. I don't know what Brandon was thinking, but several plot points were a led down in OB. There was good, but it was over-shadowed by many disappointments.

[treblkickd]

On 11/19/2017 at 7:12 AM, Nasicus said:

I feel like I'm a bad person.

Why? Because when the street boy died it was the first time since the first book that I was happy with a Shallan chapter.

I just don't like her or didn't (well probably still don't). Everything no matter what she wanted to do alwas succeeded, no matter how stupid, how new the experience (stabbing herself through the hand, arrow in the head, etc etc etc). She could do anything. ANYTHING. Compared to other characters who always have fallbacks (for example: WHY GOD BRANDON WHY MUST KALADIN HAVE ANOTHER BREAKDOWN? HE DOESNT DESERVE IT!). For me it feels like this scene was the firs time she failed. Hopefully now she also gets herself together (well she probably will, thanks to Wit) and becomes a a more likeable character.... I don't know if I will ever grow back to liking her, as I once did somewhere i the first book.

Do you guys like her???

Apart from dead I'm really sad that Elhokar had to die...this will only bring Kaladin even MORE to desperation and grievance  Though I guess he will be the first to swear the fourth ideal since in chapter 86 the record from a gem is: [...]Everyone says I will swear the Fourth Ideal soon, and in so doing, earn my armor. I simply don't think that I can. Am I not supposed to want to help people?[..]. I guess Kaladin will soon be in this "state" because he cannot (could not) decide which people to help.

Personally I think Shallan might be the best, most fully realized character that Brandon has ever created. It took me a while to warm up to her, but by the end of WoR I think she had cemented herself as SA's strongest character. I feel Kaladin has trended in the opposite direction, in that he feels more and more one dimensional as I read more of the SA. 

[MistbornAlpaca]

Aside from the Brandon Avalanche in part 5'ish, this was by far my favorite part. First of all are Dalinar's flashback chapters.

• Why Dalinar, why!? 
• The battle for Kholinar was the end I expected for the entire book, and it was refreshing to have it happen in Part 3
• Shallann's really got me worried now
• This revel thing is pretty weird, with a capital W.
• Kaladin once again turns an entire force of soldiers around and becomes their leader.
• And another character from Nalthis on Roshar, very interesting, I wonder who it could be...
• Poor Beard, and Sah, and Khen, and everyone else!
• Elhokar, brutally murdered in the middle of swearing the first Ideal, NOOOOOOOOOOOO!! I had just started to like him!!!!!!! Why Bradon, why???????
• No Kaladin, not again!!!!!

So much emotion packed into this part. Greatest Part 3 of any Sanderson book yet!

[Nuatoma]

I finished part 3 and am halfway through part 4, and the question I'm most anxious to find out now is if Drehy and Skar survived or not.  If it turns out they didn't make it, I think that might be what would make me the most sad.  I'm holding out hope though!  Though Elhokar's death was pretty devastating too.  Not just the fact that he died, but that his little 3 year old was taken after.   

[Lelouch Vi Britannia]

On 11/14/2017 at 4:04 PM, Run Ookla, run! said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HE WAS ABOUT TO SAY THE FIRST IDEAL AND HE DIED HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

Also, Vivenna has another Nightblood?! One that works better, it appears. She can hold it and it doesn't seem to be as destructive. 

A couple things i forgot to mention earlier- Wit. I love wit. Also, i loved the bridgemen perspectives. 

I'm going to need to do a close reread. 

My favorite Wit lines: 

"I think there's still one God worshipping me."

Oh, poor Kaladin. I bet he's going to need to kill Moash. 

Also, did I mention earlier that Odium is totally going to get his lunch stolen by Lift? 

And Dalinar. 

Oh Dalinar. 

You have such cool powers but... the Rift... no wonder you went to the Nightwatcher. RIP Evi.Also my Kaladin jasnah ship is dead. Darn. 

Oh! The part 3 epigraphs! So cool! Obviously the gems align with the order that came from. Some great insights here. Also, we were totally wrong about Nightwatcher with a Bondsmith. The Siblings? So many mysteries! Can't wait to see them get Urithiru up and running. 

In what possible scenario would that have been a thing? I'm genuinely curious.

[Lelouch Vi Britannia]

Lessee. This part was fantastic! And sad. And happy! Well, not really.

First off, storm you Moash! I know many have mentioned this, but Moash needs to die. Preferably soon.

IF YOU HAD STUCK AROUND INSTEAD OF ABANDONING EVERYONE YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN ELHOKAR WAS A GOOD GUY YOU IDIOT

...Anyway, Dalinar's chapters were some of the best. The Rift was suitably horrifying, which is quite the accomplishment in writing. Particularly now that things like Game of Thrones exist. But this is good. Or bad.

Wit's speech(es) to Shallan were the best part of this, though. He successfully prevented Shallan from going Book 12 Rand after a Heroic BSOD. Although this would've had less direct consequences. 

Oh, and I like Kalazure. I'll subscribe to that, now that Shallan chose Adolin.... grrrr

EDIT: Nope, apparently Syladin exists. Swift ship shift!

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by LewsTherinTalamon

[Steeldancer]

51 minutes ago, LewsTherinTalamon said:

In what possible scenario would that have been a thing? I'm genuinely curious.

No idea lol

[Blazenella]

I might be the only one, but when the enormous hints that Azure was Vivenna started dropping like hail, I got really giddy

[TequilaJack]

Upon digesting this for a couple of weeks, I'd say this was the weakest of the 3 books written now... despite that Epic climax.

It was a book of 3 parts which all don't jell together. Dalinars backstory provided ample details but Evi the most important part was ignored in majority. The current Dalinar segments were too long and a bit draggy. Shaedsmar segment and most interludes could have been shorter. 

And Shallan doesn't sound confused. Looks like she's suffering from multiple personality disorder. I felt like she was close to going bonkers. 

That climax makes up for the rest, but overall the book would have been better if edited to about 250 less pages.

Edited December 4, 2017 by TequilaJack

[Tesh]

*starts sobbing*

And the thing is, I absolutely hated Elhokar in tWoK and WoR.

But...

But...

I want to murder Moash!

And I think Azure is Vivenna.

[Stormrunner1730]

The final sequence in Kholinar was awesome.  Sanderson hit me in all of the feels.  I was almost cries tears of joy as Elhokar started speaking the First Ideal.  Half a page later it was a very different feeling...  I'm not glad that he killed Elhokar.  However, his death and the fall of Kholinar gave Odium/the Voidbringers a weight and made them a more formidable opponent.

Having Aesudan bond with Yelignar was brilliant.  I love that we are getting humans who are on Odium's side.