Chaos

[OB] Part 3 Reactions

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Wow....(again). So dang...This part was a really slow burn at least the Kholinar chapters but man those ending chapters though.. Brandon pulled no punches. Absolutely gut wrenching...

Venli- Be careful what you wish for!!! This was pretty cool to see how the fused use the Listeners bodies.

Dalinar- Oh man what a roller coaster.. It was amazing seeing him realize that the surges can be used for a lot more than fighting. I really liked that he sent for Renarin to heal. Blackthorn! So traumatic.. Still really want to know why he suddenly has his memories back. 

Kaladin- Man I feel so bad for what Brandon is doing to you! He finally seemed like he was chasing the depression away and then this.. On the bright side Veil digs you. 

Shallan- She was starting to get to crazy level 1000 with her multiple personas but Wit came to the rescue. These were some amazing scenes. The girl that stood up was beautiful (btw I guess the story was simple a metaphor for Shallan that as sharders do we read WAY too much into). Too bad you didn't head Sja-anat's warnings.. Btw she told the truth it seams...Hmmm...

Adolin- Not much to say except it was nice to get a POV. 

Elhokar- OMG JUST WHEN I WAS STARTING TO LIKE YOU!! Man one word away.. You really should have listened to Jasnah btw.. Hope his son is ok and they don't turn him into Chucky or something. 

Azure- <--- I see what you did there Brandon. Ok I was like 50% sure this was Vivenna and 50% sure we were meeting a proto-Stoneward but Kaladin's comments on her blade made me start thinking no then we get our first colors reference and I was like dummy look at her name it says it right there!! So she has Nightblood 2.0 it appears... 

Mr. T- Thanks you for getting all smart and deciding not to kill Dalinar. 

Random thoughts..

OMG! The Bridge 4 salute is the "Friendly Finger" from Friends https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naOyG_1VZS4

These giant spren in Shadesmar are they the siblings? 

What is up with the third spren in Shadesmar? Is this Adolins blade? 

Loved the Urithiru audible clips! Lots of knowledge bombs there. Even more questions.. Confirmation plate at 4 oaths. 

LIFT ATE DALINARS LUNCH LOL

Unmade CAN for sure bond with a human...

Was Vivenna using awakening when she put her cape on her arm? I seem to remember Vasher doing something similar..

Whew.. I feel like I need to take a little break before starting part 4. I am emotionally drained. 

Edited by StormingTexan
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I love the Elhokar death scene. I started to grow fond of him, and it hurts to see him die. He was starting to become the man he wanted to become.

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3 hours ago, StormingTexan said:

Wow....(again). So dang...This part was a really slow burn at least the Kholinar chapters but man those ending chapters though.. Brandon pulled no punches. Absolutely gut wrenching...

Venli- Be careful what you wish for!!! This was pretty cool to see how the fused use the Listeners bodies.

Dalinar- Oh man what a roller coaster.. It was amazing seeing him realize that the surges can be used for a lot more than fighting. I really liked that he sent for Renarin to heal. Blackthorn! So traumatic.. Still really want to know why he suddenly has his memories back. 

Kaladin- Man I feel so bad for what Brandon is doing to you! He finally seemed like he was chasing the depression away and then this.. On the bright side Veil digs you. 

Shallan- She was starting to get to crazy level 1000 with her multiple personas but Wit came to the rescue. These were some amazing scenes. The girl that stood up was beautiful (btw I guess the story was simple a metaphor for Shallan that as sharders do we read WAY too much into). Too bad you didn't head Sja-anat's warnings.. Btw she told the truth it seams...Hmmm...

Adolin- Not much to say except it was nice to get a POV. 

Elhokar- OMG JUST WHEN I WAS STARTING TO LIKE YOU!! Man one word away.. You really should have listened to Jasnah btw.. Hope his son is ok and they don't turn him into Chucky or something. 

Azure- <--- I see what you did there Brandon. Ok I was like 50% sure this was Vivenna and 50% sure we were meeting a proto-Stoneward but Kaladin's comments on her blade made me start thinking no then we get our first colors reference and I was like dummy look at her name it says it right there!! So she has Nightblood 2.0 it appears... 

Mr. T- Thanks you for getting all smart and deciding not to kill Dalinar. 

Random thoughts..

OMG! The Bridge 4 salute is the "Friendly Finger" from Friends https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naOyG_1VZS4

These giant spren in Shadesmar are they the siblings? 

What is up with the third spren in Shadesmar? Is this Adolins blade? 

Loved the Urithiru audible clips! Lots of knowledge bombs there. Even more questions.. Confirmation plate at 4 oaths. 

LIFT ATE DALINARS LUNCH LOL

Unmade CAN for sure bond with a human...

Was Vivenna using awakening when she put her cape on her arm? I seem to remember Vasher doing something similar..

Whew.. I feel like I need to take a little break before starting part 4. I am emotionally drained. 

I think the two enormous son are Sja-Anat and Ashertman, but who knows? I figured that the last humanoid spren was probably Azure's sword, but I guess we'll find out. But man! If that's true, I  really want to know what Nightblood looks like in Shadesmar.

And, yeah, Vivenna had to be Awakening, there (assuming it's actually Vivenna, but come on).

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I can't even put anything into words guys. I'm just blown away. AND THIS IS ONLY PART 3 OF THE 3RD BOOK IN A 10 PART SERIES??!?!?!?!

giphy.gif

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18 minutes ago, The Invested Beard said:

 

I can't even put anything into words guys. I'm just blown away. AND THIS IS ONLY PART 3 OF THE 3RD BOOK IN A 10 PART SERIES??!?!?!?!

 

The parts in this book seem more contained. It’s almost like a collection of shorter books. 

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By the way did anyone notice Adolin hearing screams from his shard blade?

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This is probably the first time I’ve read a Brandon Sanderson book and seen the clear influence of the Wheel of Time in his writing. The whole Kholinar section was extremely reminiscent of the last 4-5 books of the Wheel of Time. A city infiltrated by evil, descending into madness. 

And storms he did a good job. You can feel the desperation, the wrongness to the place. 

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8 hours ago, Erunion said:

This is probably the first time I’ve read a Brandon Sanderson book and seen the clear influence of the Wheel of Time in his writing. The whole Kholinar section was extremely reminiscent of the last 4-5 books of the Wheel of Time. A city infiltrated by evil, descending into madness. 

And storms he did a good job. You can feel the desperation, the wrongness to the place. 

I agree not that I think it is a bad thing but I got a WoT vibe too. Also the Stormvision Network reminds me a little of Tel'aran'rhiod as well.

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Wow! That was emotional! Saddest part was Elhokar dying :( 

Dalinar's flashbacks were heartbreaking.

Adolin as a kid is adorable!

Poor Kaladin, hasn't he suffered enough?!

Vivenna!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My favourite SA part so far, so unpredictable and heartbreaking, yet not unnecessarily.

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Wow. Like...wow. Storms... those final chapters... this was brilliant. I have always been an advocate of Elhokar, and I did feel that he reached his potential there at the end. His death scene was heart-wrenching. He looked at the drawing, and started to glow, and I was like YAY! And then he died... it was wonderfully written. And then poor Kaladin, who got to watch Sah, Beard and the others kill eachother...

I also liked how Adolin ended up in command and made the hard calls there at the end.

Dalinars story is also heart-wrenching. It felt like a punch when Tanalan Jr told him that Evi was inside that house. It is interesting that Amaram was present, too. Hope we learn of his thoughts of the events of the Rift. 

Speaking of Amaram, I hope that he and Mraize has a bigger precense in the last parts. My third favorite SS member Graves didn't do too well in this book, but I have hopes for Mraize and Amaram.

Shallan and Wit deserves a mention too. I like that Wit really went all in to help her. It feels like Shallan might drop her different personalities now. If she keeps on like this she will turn into Bavadin 2.0.

Azure as Vivenna... it certainly looks like it, but I'm not sold on it yet. Her first chapter (named after her I think) had four Chana headings... she could be a Herald. I also don't see why Vivenna would decide to put her life at risk for Kholinar, where she got the wierd Blade from, or why she has scars.

Oh, and Tezim = Ishar confirmed. 

And when I read of the character Beard, I couldn't help thinking about @The Invested Beard.

Edited by Toaster Retribution
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Come on Toaster just 2 more Parts :P. Need more people theorizing and writing posts. Kind of sad I haven't seen Calderis, Extesian or Maxal.

Edited by WhiteLeeopard
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4 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Come on Toaster just 2 more Parts :P. Need more people theorizing and writing posts. Kind of sad I haven't seen Calderis, Extesian or Maxal.

You should tell my teachers to give me less homework if you want me to finish faster :D As for Extesian and Calderis, I guess that they have their hands full with Arcanum.

Now, on to Toasters Stormlight Awards for Part 3:

MVP POV character: I will give it to Kaladin this time. His POVs were constantly interesting. The Wall Guard were a fun bunch (R.I.P), and Azure/Vivenna/Herald is interesting too. His final POVs were heartbreaking as well. Overall awesomeness.

MVP non-POV character: Elhokar. You can't really give it to anyone else. He had a great arc, and was a true hero. I love that Elhokar can show us that you can be heroic without blasting through windows with a Shardspear Kaladin-style. He was a hero because he threw away glory to do what helped others the most. His death was a punch in the gut, and his moments with the drawing was beautiful.

Other random awards:

Most Hated Character: Moash. I'll be excited to see how much hate he will get from the community. Is he the next Sadeas/Amaram now?

Most Stupid Character: Tanalan Jr. What happened to the Rift was horrifying and wrong, but Tanalan Jr really should have used his brain a bit more. Dalinar was no evil man, and technically saved his life twice (once when he was a kid, and once when he offered him full pardon for his rebellion). Tanalan Jr knew what could happen, and what he got himself into. It was entirely unnecessary, and he did it anyway. It doesn't even come close to justify Dalinars actions (nothing could) but the whole rebellion was still stupid. 

Most Dead Character: I guess its Elhokar, this time. To be honest, I didn't expect to have this much death (I thought I would have to give Sadeas this award after each part except maybe the last) but so far, we have lost Eshonai (looks like it anyway), Graves, Elhokar, Evi (we knew that would happen, but whatever), Beard, Sah and Noro.

Edited by Toaster Retribution
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I didn't know Brandon could do something so dark.

With Shallan's scene with Wit I saw such hope and promise, I thought we were going to get a mini-rush of problems being fixed - I was thinking that the book's front cover scene was forthcoming with Jasnah due to be part of the reinforcements to come through and save Kholinar.

But then wow so many blows in quick succession:

  1. The death of the street boy (and suffering of others) Shallan had been feeding (I know this was earlier but it was close)
  2. The discovery that Aesudan is possessed by an unmade and seemingly can't be saved
  3. The death of Elhokar (and several of Kaladin's short lived squad from the wall + some of the Parshmen he'd befriended)
  4. The evil of Moash's vengeance
  5. Kaladin falling apart
  6. It being too late the save the city
  7. AND THEN after all of that
  8. The oathgate being corrupted so they can't even escape (so there's a high chance the remaining soldiers they left behind including Kaladin and Shallan's squires) are going to be dead/imprisoned - and they couldn't even save the refugees who were flooding onto the plateau.

It does remind me of the end of Game of Thrones - I never read book 2 of A Song of Ice and Fire as I found the end of book 1 too unpleasant I really hope Brandon is going to give us something positive soon.

This was brilliantly done but just horrible; that said it felt very real - Elhokar's arc in particular was so well designed to feel so real; death is always meaningful sometimes things happen just too late.

One other note - unsure on the amount of Wit, Vivenna and Nightblood we're getting, I know we understand them somewhat but if you try and think of the Stormlight Archive of as a self contained series they seem rather out of place - I was very slow to spot that Azure was Vivenna I really wanted her to be a Stoneward.

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If you were slow to spot it, why does it matter? 

 

As for Nightblood, he's going to be the Chekhov's gun to actually give the heroes a chance to win. Warbreaker is merely his optional backstory 

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On the topic of Vivenna been too distracting as an offworlder, here is a piece of a post from a person that hasn't read Warbreaker regarding Viviena. Poster is MothersMilkInACup. Just not putting full post as its from the end of book reaction, only the important and non-spoilery part :).

Quote

As someone who has yet to read Warbreaker I agree. I thought she was just a semi interesting new character until her tidbits about being from another planet. Then I became interested but she didn't feel out of place or anything.

I think people are too sensitive about overlaps, as most of the people that I've seen that haven't read Warbreaker don't seem concerned with Zahel, Viviena, Nightblood parts been out of place. They just find them either part of the magic world or interesting characters from elsewhere.

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In a world in which there is still so much to reveal, with new reveals every part of every book, in which every main character knows relatively little of the background, we have characters from the past and nations we know literally nothing about yet, and people doing things for the first time ever in every book, the only way at this stage a character or thing can stand out as genuinely alien is if you know that they have an alien source

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Man. Moash needs to get tortured. 

That other Spren must be Adolin's dead spren. I think he will be the first to revive and then others could do the same. Maybe shadesmar is the place to do it. Bringing a bonded bladed person they can revive the oaths.

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18 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

think people are too sensitive about overlaps, as most of the people that I've seen that haven't read Warbreaker don't seem concerned with Zahel, Viviena, Nightblood parts been out of place. They just find them either part of the magic world or interesting characters from elsewhere.

I agree with everything except Nightblood. If you haven’t read Warbreaker he would come across as a little misleading. I think some that haven’t read that could think he has something to do with the voidbringers/Odium. 

Of course I’ll say this. SA is obviously a critical part of the overall Cosmere storyline (it’s a huge chunk of it) so we are going to see a lot of Cosmere storyline regardless. 

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1 minute ago, StormingTexan said:

I agree with everything except Nightblood. If you haven’t read Warbreaker he would come across as a little misleading. I think some that haven’t read that could think he has something to do with the voidbringers/Odium. 

Then they'll get a nice surprise (probably. Or we will get a nasty one). Why is misleading bad? 

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3 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

I agree with everything except Nightblood. If you haven’t read Warbreaker he would come across as a little misleading. I think some that haven’t read that could think he has something to do with the voidbringers/Odium. 

Thats true, everyone not to read Warbreaker saw the black smoke and black blade and called Odium on the spot. While everyone to read Warbreaker just squealed hype!

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Gosh, poor Kaladin and Shallan. At least Shallan has had Hoid help her a bit figure herself out.

I wouldn’t want to be stuck in shadesmar.

I think Azure is Vivenna, or at least from Nalthis, for sure.

I saw Elhokar’s death coming, but Moash surprised me. He isn’t redeemed yet...and gosh The queen is bad, I didn’t see that coming, Jasnah should of had her assinated.

I want Szeth.

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Am I the only one angry at Kaladin? I pity him simply because Brandon seems to determined to put as much crap as possible on him. But here he learns the consequences of inaction. Not just failing to save Elhokar, Kholinar, Beard, Soh etc. but his inaction regarding his morals. He knew for a very long time (since joining the freed parshmen group) that he would be unable to face them in battle. Yet he chooses to ignore the problem. The results are obviously disastrous. 

Also, consider how he placed himself in a position he knew he couldn't follow up. He doesn't make his inner turmoil clear, which results in Elhokar and Dalinar both depending on him to carry out the mission. Even though he was compromised regarding his dedication to their cause. 

In general, I think the group chosen for the mission was very bad. Both Shallan and Kaladin were clearly unequipped to deal with the city and the invasion. We saw this not only in Kaladins complete mental breakdown but also in Shallan's time wasting and alternate personalities exposing her to The Heart of the Revel. Someone like Jasnah would have been the far better choice, as she would have been able to deal with the issue in a controlled manner. A large portion of the blame should be placed on Dalinar too. He's supposed to know his soldiers and how to deploy them, yet he doesn't acknowledge Kaladins concerns and has no idea what Shallan is going through.

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16 minutes ago, TheLordRuler said:

Am I the only one angry at Kaladin? I pity him simply because Brandon seems to determined to put as much crap as possible on him. But here he learns the consequences of inaction. Not just failing to save Elhokar, Kholinar, Beard, Soh etc. but his inaction regarding his morals. He knew for a very long time (since joining the freed parshmen group) that he would be unable to face them in battle. Yet he chooses to ignore the problem. The results are obviously disastrous. 

Also, consider how he placed himself in a position he knew he couldn't follow up. He doesn't make his inner turmoil clear, which results in Elhokar and Dalinar both depending on him to carry out the mission. Even though he was compromised regarding his dedication to their cause. 

In general, I think the group chosen for the mission was very bad. Both Shallan and Kaladin were clearly unequipped to deal with the city and the invasion. We saw this not only in Kaladins complete mental breakdown but also in Shallan's time wasting and alternate personalities exposing her to The Heart of the Revel. Someone like Jasnah would have been the far better choice, as she would have been able to deal with the issue in a controlled manner. A large portion of the blame should be placed on Dalinar too. He's supposed to know his soldiers and how to deploy them, yet he doesn't acknowledge Kaladins concerns and has no idea what Shallan is going through.

I'm not sure anyone available would have done an iota better

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11 hours ago, TheLordRuler said:

In general, I think the group chosen for the mission was very bad. Both Shallan and Kaladin were clearly unequipped to deal with the city and the invasion. We saw this not only in Kaladins complete mental breakdown but also in Shallan's time wasting and alternate personalities exposing her to The Heart of the Revel. Someone like Jasnah would have been the far better choice, as she would have been able to deal with the issue in a controlled manner. A large portion of the blame should be placed on Dalinar too. He's supposed to know his soldiers and how to deploy them, yet he doesn't acknowledge Kaladins concerns and has no idea what Shallan is going through.

The thing is, Kaladin was necessary to get them there, and to bring power in form of the squires (Skar and Drehy were obviously useful). 

And as for Shallan, she is very good at hiding her feelings and problems. We really can't blame Dalinar for not knowing. In fact, based on the knowledge he has of her, bringing her to Kholinar is a good decision.

It is strange that they didn't bring Jasnah though. She probably wanted to research Urithiru.

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