Timeline Question

[Kered]

Sorry, pals. The creation of the wonderful Acranum has caused me to have more, probably obviously answered, questions. 

 

I've been reading the WoB's about the Cosmere timeline when a question popped into my head. It could also go with Steeldancers thread about the Unmade, Heralds, and Oathpact. We know from this WoB that Odium is bound by things greater than the Oathpact. 

Quote

Questioner

So Odium is trapped on a planet near Roshar. Now that Talenelat is no longer being bound wherever he's at, does that mean that Odium's imminence is--

Brandon Sanderson

Taln still is keeping to the Oathpact. So there is that. But [Odium's] being bound is greater than the Oathpact.

So that got me thinking about the things that we know that pack enough to bind a Shard. So far the only effective means we've seen is Preservation using his mind to trap Ruin. So before I go down that rabbit hole, I was wondering if it's been stated some where(blog post, master timeline, etc) what happened first, Odium killing Honor or Preservation trapping Ruin? The obvious follow up theory would be that Honor took a few tips from ole' Leras and sacrificed himself to trap Odium and give the people of Roshar a chance. Or maybe it happened vice versa and Preservation took some pointers to what Honor did? 

That got more convoluted than I intended and led me to another question as I'm typing this lol. Has it ever been discussed if Ruins "prison" was similar to Odiums?

Edited November 11, 2017 by Kered

[Yata]

We don't know Who was the First to trap a rival Shard.

I believe (but don't take my Word as fact, Just as a consideration) that Preservation trapped Ruin First.

Odium came to Roshar After:

- Searching Ambition without find him/her.

- Going to Sel and killing Devotion and Dominion

- finally find Ambition, Battle with him/her and kill the rival.

- go for Honor and Cultivation.

Only After all this events, Odium could be trapped on Braize.

If Preservation and Ruin didn't go around and doing stuffs before crafting Scadrial. The Ruin's prison is older.

By the way Ruin and Odium's prisons are really different. Honor didn't sacrifice himself to trap Odium and Odium isn't nearly as powerless as Ruin.

Ruin's prison was actually an auto-counter to every Ruin's action more than a prison. While Odium's One seems to be' a simple "you can't go away"

Edit: fixed some typos

Edited November 12, 2017 by Yata

[Kered]

15 hours ago, Yata said:

We don't know Who was the First to trap a rival Shard.

I believe (but don't take my Word as fact, Just as a consideration) that Preservation trapped Ruin First.

Odium came to Roshar After:

- Searching Ambition without find him/her.

- Going to Sel and killing Devotion and Dominion

- finally find Ambition, Battle with him/her and kill the rival.

- go for Honor and Cultivation.

Only all' this event, Odium could be trapped on Braize.

If Preservation and Ruin didn't go around and doing stuffs before crafting Scadrial. The Ruin's prison is older.

By the way Ruin and Odium's prisons are really different. Honor didn't sacrifica himself to trap Odium and Odium was nearly as powerless ad Ruin.

Ruin's prison was actually an auto-counter to every Ruin's action more than a prison. While Odium's One seems to be' a simple "you can't go away"

Do we know if they're so different? I can't find any detailed WoB's on Odiums prison, so are there clues in the text? 

[Yata]

6 hours ago, Kered said:

Do we know if they're so different? I can't find any detailed WoB's on Odiums prison, so are there clues in the text? 

Well, Odium could unleash Desolations, Splinter himself and send agents, kill Honor, pimpante an insane amount of Investiture in Roshar (Everstorm).

Ruin can't do Almost anything. Just be' around and whisper to people.

We could say (in a not proper way) that Ruin and Odium were in two opposite situations.

- Ruin could move around but he is stopped from performing mainly every action.

- Odium can't leave Great Roshar System but he could mainly do whatever he wants

PS: from your quote, I saw I made some errors in my previous post (damnation autocorrector) I Will fix them

Edited November 12, 2017 by Yata

[Mulk]

I kinda wonder if what Honor did was bait Odium into investing himself just enough to trap him.

[Yata]

51 minutes ago, Mulk said:

I kinda wonder if what Honor did was bait Odium into investing himself just enough to trap him.

Many believe it's the case. But nothing usually prevent a Shard from de-invest himself and leave.

[Felt]

7 hours ago, Yata said:

Well, Odium could unleash Desolations, Splinter himself and send agents, kill Honor, pimpante an insane amount of Investiture in Roshar (Everstorm).

Are you sure that Odium splinters himself? What is it based on that he does?

[Yata]

16 minutes ago, Felt said:

Are you sure that Odium splinters himself? What is it based on that he does?

The Unmade and Voidspren are Splinters of Odium

[Felt]

Cool, that's new to me  

[Mulk]

On 11/12/2017 at 1:32 AM, Yata said:

Many believe it's the case. But nothing usually prevent a Shard from de-invest himself and leave.

Possibly - but maybe the whole point of the way Honor fought this battle was to try to pin Odium down long enough that he becomes passively Invested in Braize.  That he used Odium/Rayse's dogged pursuit against him. He knew Odium wouldn't give up so he set up the combat between them in a way to force him to Invest.  Since Odium had to Invest to fight Honor, and the more he stays in that system unwilling to give up his pursuit of both Honor and Cultivation, the more he is unable to leave.

from this WoB: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/36-arcanum-unbounded-chicago-signing/#e1551

Quote

Argent

Which is a nice segue to Shards Investing into Shardworlds, that I've been meaning to ask. So is it kind of a passive-- The more a Shard stays on a world--

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Argent

--the Investiture kind of seeps--

Brandon Sanderson

It does. Once you've got a Perpendicularity, you are starting-- That's trouble for going other places. But you've gotta remember, going other places means multiple things to someone actually holding a Shard. They can exist in the Spiritual Realm, where all things are one. And they can even kind of comprehend it...

It makes it seem like a Shard who sticks around passively seeps into the world they inhabit; ergo it might be possible for a shard to Invest to the point of being stuck without noticing it.  It may be that Odium's not going to find it easy to just pick up and leave once or if he finally manages to finish the job in Roshar.  If they manage to trap him on Braize more or less permanently, well that means bad things long term for Roshar but good things for the Cosmere.

A kinda wild one off occurred to me. Perhaps the purpose of the visions from the Stormfather isn't just to stir the people up to fight once more. Perhaps it's also seeking someone who might be able reassemble and take up Honor.  We know it's splintered currently, but as everything in the Cosmere appears to be reversible (Even if it's difficult)  it's got to be possible in some way to put it back together again if someone is sufficiently attuned to Honor in a way that they could begin the process.  The obvious candidate would be Kaladin as he is bonded to an honorspren, one of the few spren we can say is 100% of Honor and not of Cultivation at all.

I'd say that's probably something for the second five, and not for the first, which I think will largely if not entirely be focused on this Desolation and the defeat of Odium, but it's something I'll try to keep in mind for....20 years down the road or something.  I really hope I live long enough to see all this play out.

[The One Who Connects]

On 11/13/2017 at 10:19 AM, Mulk said:

It may be that Odium's not going to find it easy to just pick up and leave once or if he finally manages to finish the job in Roshar.

I figure Divesting is about as easy as Investing is. In my opinion, the real "difficulty" for Odium would be time and effort. Time spent regathering his power is time Odium isn't spending on guard from Cultivation. Mental focus spent regathering his power is mental focus he isn't spending elsewhere to keep Cultivation(or the KR) on edge. To bring it back to Ruin and Preservation, power/effort expended doing one thing can't be expended blocking the other Shard from doing something else. Odium and Cultivation both need to be careful with their power so they don't give the other an advantage.

One of his advantages against other Shards was that he had more power available to use since he wasn't invested anywhere. Due to this, I highly doubt he'd just rip himself away and leave power behind on Braize after finishing off Cultivation.