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Wax vs Vin vs Kelsier


Toaster Retribution

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If we are talking of A-Steel's skill alone, probably Wax will be above both of them.

His skill with that power is cultivated in many many years, both Vin and Kel had a relative short amount of time as Allomancers. Wax's allomancy is also a bit different as his Savantism makes him able to performe feats regular allomancer could not even imagine regardless of the amount of skill they have.

Lastly he lives in a context where the limits of his own power are well know and it's stricly more aware of the risks he could meet

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43 minutes ago, Yata said:

If we are talking of A-Steel's skill alone, probably Wax will be above both of them.

His skill with that power is cultivated in many many years, both Vin and Kel had a relative short amount of time as Allomancers. Wax's allomancy is also a bit different as his Savantism makes him able to performe feats regular allomancer could not even imagine regardless of the amount of skill they have.

Lastly he lives in a context where the limits of his own power are well know and it's stricly more aware of the risks he could meet

I would agree with you, if not for one specific scene: In TFE when Kelsier fights the Inquisitor.

During that fight, Kelsier pushes and pulls on the ends of a metal bar, rather than the center of it, to spin it and whip it around. In my opinion, this shows more skill than any other Allomancer we've seen, regardless of savantism (and its debatable whether Wax is really a savant anyway) since, at most, Wax has been shown to be able to separate multiple steel lines only when the parts are distinct.

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11 minutes ago, Cowmanthethird said:

I would agree with you, if not for one specific scene: In TFE when Kelsier fights the Inquisitor.

During that fight, Kelsier pushes and pulls on the ends of a metal bar, rather than the center of it, to spin it and whip it around. In my opinion, this shows more skill than any other Allomancer we've seen, regardless of savantism (and its debatable whether Wax is really a savant anyway) since, at most, Wax has been shown to be able to separate multiple steel lines only when the parts are distinct.

Wax is more a Savant than Kelsier, simply Brandon changed how the Savantism works.

Anyway I am unsure about your statement on Wax and separate steel lines....We saw Wax did this as a child, (BoM's prologue) so It's not something he can't do.

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2 minutes ago, Yata said:

Wax is more a Savant than Kelsier, simply Brandon changed how the Savantism works.

Anyway I am unsure about your statement on Wax and separate steel lines....We saw Wax did this as a child, (BoM's prologue) so It's not something he can't do.

Wax separated steel lines in a bullet casing, one for the primer, one for the shell, and one for the bullet. Kelsier is the only one that we've seen do the same thing with a single solid piece of metal.

He's described as pushing on one end of the bar and pulling on the other, something that, as far as we know, no one else has been able to do.

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If we’re talking about a straight up fight, then I’d be more inclined to say that Vin and Kelsier beat Wax. 

In terms of sheer skill with Steel Pushing? Wax takes this one. He’s able to instinctively separate metal lines. With his savantism plus his years of experience, it can be argued that his level of skill with this metal eclipses Vin and Kelsier. Kelsier was able to do the bar spin (which is somewhat impressive), but Wax just seems to have better feats. 

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I don't know about a straight up fight... Wax could just tap a crap ton of weight and push really, really hard. In Alloy of Law, if I remember correctly, he literally tore down a building. I don't think even duralumin would save Vin or Kel. He could probably take them on together! 

I think Wax would win with just Steel Pushing as well. Maybe. I say maybe because if he's not allowed to use his ironminds, that would be trouble because he's just so used to being lighter, etc.

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43 minutes ago, podman36 said:

 

I think Wax would win with just Steel Pushing as well. Maybe. I say maybe because if he's not allowed to use his ironminds, that would be trouble because he's just so used to being lighter, etc.

Well Vin and Kel are used to be physical enhanced with a more complete manovrability (thanks to Iron). Probably Wax is less penalized then they

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4 hours ago, amflare said:

We have WoB somewhere stating that Wax and Zane were the two best steelpushers. I'm going to see if I can find it.

I know Zane was stronger in power, thanks to a spike, but I doubt he outskilled Kelsier or Vin. Same way as Elend was stronger than Vin, but Vin was way better because she knew what she was doing.

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17 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I know Zane was stronger in power, thanks to a spike, but I doubt he outskilled Kelsier or Vin. Same way as Elend was stronger than Vin, but Vin was way better because she knew what she was doing.

There's a WoB somewhere that says the spike granted him increased control. Plus, we see in WoA that Zane does some crazy stuff with steel that impresses Vin.

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7 minutes ago, SilverTiger said:

Didn't he make the Bands of Mourning? Because that would make him a Fullborn, and therefore capable of defeating Wax with great ease.

I think we’re sticking to TFE Kell though. Otherwise you would be right. 

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1 minute ago, Toaster Retribution said:

The fact that modern Kelsier is OP is another good argument for going with FE Kell.

And also an argument against it, because if Wax and Kelsier are battling each other, then it would be ~300 years after TFE. And Kelsier would definitely win, Fullborn or no, because he's a Mistborn. Wax is only a Coinshot.

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According to this WoB, Kel and Zane represent the upper level of skill possible.

Quote

Granted, this was way back in 2008.

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1 hour ago, SilverTiger said:

And also an argument against it, because if Wax and Kelsier are battling each other, then it would be ~300 years after TFE. And Kelsier would definitely win, Fullborn or no, because he's a Mistborn. Wax is only a Coinshot.

Er... no. Wax is a Twinborn, a Crasher. I feel like he would actually beat Kell, like I’ve said before.

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8 hours ago, SilverTiger said:

And also an argument against it, because if Wax and Kelsier are battling each other, then it would be ~300 years after TFE. And Kelsier would definitely win, Fullborn or no, because he's a Mistborn. Wax is only a Coinshot.

Did you realize the topic is about their A-Steel alone ? Yeah Kel was a Mistborn but in this context he can't use 15 of his allomantic abilities, and yeah Wax is a Crasher but he can't use his other power (it's debatable if Wax will be allowed to use his resonance)

I think this would penalizate both, but Kelsier will be more penalizated as he is too used to be able to performe stuff he wil be denied to him (mostly the Iron, Pewter and Tin Allomancy).

The Era2 Kel could be mostly anything as far as we know, it could be a Mistborn as he former was, he could be no more a Mistborn for the stuffs that happened to him, he could be a Fullborn (but honestly I really doubt it) or he could have just 1 or 2 power gained through Hemalurgy....anyway He is not the Kel we considerate in this topic as we don't know nothing about him.

Edited by Yata
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I think Kell's trick with the spinning bar is only possible as a Mistborn with both A-steel and A-iron. An ordinary Coinshot couldn't do it, because it required simultaneous pushing on one end and pulling on the other end, in the same degree of power.

I think of it like spinning a coin on a table top. You put your fingers on opposite edges, and pull one side toward yourself while pushing the outer edge away from yourself, to spin the coin in place.  And that's only with some practice; usually you'd put more energy in one hand than the other, and the spinning coin would slowly drift to one direction.  But if you pushed only on the one edge, it'd spin, but  shoot completely off in one direction.

On the other hand, as a Crasher, Wax can increase his weight with F-iron and Push things away from him that are otherwise much heavier than himself, without having to Push on an anchor behind him.  Or, to impart much more force to his Pushed projectiles, by using larger shot. So he'd have a significant advantage in a Steelfight done in an open field.

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39 minutes ago, robardin said:

On the other hand, as a Crasher, Wax can increase his weight with F-iron and Push things away from him that are otherwise much heavier than himself, without having to Push on an anchor behind him.  Or, to impart much more force to his Pushed projectiles, by using larger shot. So he'd have a significant advantage in a Steelfight done in an open field.

Wait, Kell and vin are restricted to steel only but Wax gets to use feruchemy?

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