[OB] Surges and Shardplate

[Ardjet]

In Chapter 29, where Shallan and her party venture forth, Adolin and Renarin are definitely described as wearing their Shardplate. Yet when the fighting is in full, we have a mention of wounded moving to the center to be bandaged by Lyn os Lopen. Then Renarin falls back and starts to "glow with Stormlight, healing those who were hurt."

And in the next chapter, "Renarin quickly knelt next to a bridgeman who had been hurt, removing his gauntlet and infusing the man with healing Stormlight."

What do you guys think about this in regards to the theories that I've seen around about Surgebinders using Surges while in Plate? About if the Plate would just feed off the Stormlight/Surge.
Also, in the second instance, do you think he's using Regrowth, or is he actually giving the man Stormlight and letting it heal him naturally? I don't recall the latter happening before. When people have been infused with Stormlight in the past it was for the purpose of using a Surge(Gravitation), not granting them the passive effects of holding Stormlight.

[Calderis]

It's regrowth. There's no evidence that passive Stormlight healing can be granted to another. 

And if Kaladin's arena fight is anything to judge by, his plate wouldn't start feeding off of his Stormlight until it were damaged and needed to repair itself. 

[Ardjet]

My money is on Regrowth as well, I'm just suspicious because of the wording there. Also, no evidence doesn't mean it isn't possible. Not likely, I agree, but still.

The arena thing is valid, yeah. I'm curious if just using the Plate drains the gems' Investiture, or if it's only to repair it.

[MPHRD]

I think the general theory is that plate does not work the way it used to work, just like living blades vs death blades. In Dalinar's flashbacks, we see Plate that glows with glyphs and helmets that can disappear/reappear. Those Radiants also "flew" into battle, probably with lashings, something that can't be done currently. I also doubt that Knight Radiants needed a ton of help getting their Plate on and off like it takes now.  Now does that mean that plate can be activated fully again or if new plate needs to be made. 

[Marethyu316]

4 hours ago, MPHRD said:

Those Radiants also "flew" into battle, probably with lashings, something that can't be done currently.

Kaladin could fly into battle. Are we sure those weren't windrunners that we saw?

[Calderis]

13 minutes ago, Marethyu316 said:

Kaladin could fly into battle. Are we sure those weren't windrunners that we saw?

They were Windrunners. He just meant that current plate doesn't allow surges, so we know that the old glowing plate functioned differently. 

I think it's that the plate of a Radiant is Identity matched to them, so their surges can work through it. 

Modern plate is still locked to the Identity of the Radiant who dropped it, so the surges of a current surgebinder fight against it. 

[Marethyu316]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

They were Windrunners. He just meant that current plate doesn't allow surges, so we know that the old glowing plate functioned differently. 

I think it's that the plate of a Radiant is Identity matched to them, so their surges can work through it. 

Modern plate is still locked to the Identity of the Radiant who dropped it, so the surges of a current surgebinder fight against it. 

Thanks!

[Scriptorian]

20 minutes ago, Marethyu316 said:

Kaladin could fly into battle. Are we sure those weren't windrunners that we saw?

In the WoK prologue, Szeth mentions that wearing Plate would somehow interfere with his surgebinding. Most theories presumed that this was a limitation of modern Plate (which explained why the Radiants in the visions could Windrun in Plate) but Renarin surgebinding in Dalinar's old Plate would seem to contradict this. So either we're misreading what Renarin was doing, or Szeth wasn't entirely correct. 

There is definately some kind of interaction between Plate and a Radiant's use of stormlight (see Kaladin in the area) but the exact nature remains unclear, I think. 

Edit: wow, double ninja'd. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Scriptorian

[Calderis]

@Scriptorian the plate does interfere with Renarin's surgebinding though. He had to remove his gauntlet to heal the members of bridge four.

Presumably for Szeth, he wouldn't have been able to use adhesion without doing the same, and he wouldn't have been able to use lashings for the same reason he couldn't lash an enemy Shardbearer directly. 

[Solant]

37 minutes ago, Calderis said:

They were Windrunners

I agree with your point, but wasn't Dalinar healed by one of them? 

Plus, I feel like passively transferring storm light to heal someone would mostly render regrowth redundant, so it seems unlikely to me.

[Calderis]

10 minutes ago, Solant said:

I agree with your point, but wasn't Dalinar healed by one of them? 

Plus, I feel like passively transferring storm light to heal someone would mostly render regrowth redundant, so it seems unlikely to me.

Oh, I was think of the Recreance vision actually, though in both visions we see Windrunners and Stonewards by the Colors of the plate and eyes. 

The Stoneward in Starfalls used a fabrial to heal them. 

[Solant]

Oh, you're right, thanks. 

The part about passive stormlight was in response to the OP, btw

[Ciridae]

Is there a difference between passive stormlight healing and being healed by Regrowth? Both restore the body to the way the healed person views themself. The only difference is that one is automatic while the other has to be granted, but the effects should be the same, no? If Renarin healed Kaladin his brands still wouldn't go away.

[Calderis]

1 minute ago, Ciridae said:

Is there a difference between passive stormlight healing and being healed by Regrowth? Both restore the body to the way the healed person views themself. The only difference is that one is automatic while the other has to be granted, but the effects should be the same, no? If Renarin healed Kaladin his brands still wouldn't go away.

Other than the speed and the ability to be used on others, nothing we've seen yet. 

[Leyrann]

8 minutes ago, Ciridae said:

Is there a difference between passive stormlight healing and being healed by Regrowth? Both restore the body to the way the healed person views themself. The only difference is that one is automatic while the other has to be granted, but the effects should be the same, no? If Renarin healed Kaladin his brands still wouldn't go away.

I personally believe that Stormlight is pure Investiture (there is a quantum of Investiture according to Brandon and I personally believe it to be (related to) photons), and that if you're infused with Stormlight, the healing happens 'automatically' (though you could probably suppress it if you were limited on Stormlight). The special thing about Regrowth, I think, is that you can give the Stormlight to others and then have them use it, maybe also automatically.

[Yata]

6 hours ago, Calderis said:

Oh, I was think of the Recreance vision actually, though in both visions we see Windrunners and Stonewards by the Colors of the plate and eyes. 

The Stoneward in Starfalls used a fabrial to heal them. 

But in both this istances the Radiants didn't need to make the Stormlight go through the Plate.

The Windrunners lashed themself to fly and the Fabrial was outside the Plate.

[Scriptorian]

9 hours ago, Calderis said:

@Scriptorian the plate does interfere with Renarin's surgebinding though. He had to remove his gauntlet to heal the members of bridge four.

Presumably for Szeth, he wouldn't have been able to use adhesion without doing the same, and he wouldn't have been able to use lashings for the same reason he couldn't lash an enemy Shardbearer directly. 

Hmm...I guess it's a reasonable reading that he had been taking the gauntlet off and on the whole fight when he needed to heal someone, rather than just taking it off at the end for no explicable reason, which is how I read it. Feels like it could have been written clearer either way   

Another question that's occurred to me: is contact actually required for Renarin to use regrowth? Hand contact specifically? Lift seems to be able to use it just by breathing on people, in which case Renarin should just be able to raise his visor. Is this a difference between orders? Renarin just doesn't understand his powers yet? Lift is just awesome? I'm reading too much into it? 

[Leyrann]

1 hour ago, Scriptorian said:

Hmm...I guess it's a reasonable reading that he had been taking the gauntlet off and on the whole fight when he needed to heal someone, rather than just taking it off at the end for no explicable reason, which is how I read it. Feels like it could have been written clearer either way   

Another question that's occurred to me: is contact actually required for Renarin to use regrowth? Hand contact specifically? Lift seems to be able to use it just by breathing on people, in which case Renarin should just be able to raise his visor. Is this a difference between orders? Renarin just doesn't understand his powers yet? Lift is just awesome? I'm reading too much into it? 

A person's perception on how to use his or her power is important. That's why Shallan can only create images of people she's drawn.