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[OB] Jezrien's Belt Buckle


Crucible of Shards

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If you haven't seen the new art from Oathbringer, here it is. If you zoom in on Jezrien, he has a belt with 10 circles making a larger circle, which I assume would be the symbols of the Radiant orders. However, there are three other circles within the larger one made by the 10. They are blue, green, and light pinkish/purple. Any ideas on what this might be or their significance?

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20 minutes ago, Argent said:

The popular assumption is that they are, somehow, depictions of Roshar's moons, as they match both their number and colors. 

I think they also match the size of the moons. As the blue gem is the biggest and I think that the blue moon was also the biggest.

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Perhaps I'm reading way too far into this, but the art in previous books reflected something that actually happens in the books. And the art depicts someone from either side of the conflict. With that being the case, i think we will see these four Heralds in full swing. Ishar is probably a traitor.... Saruman's clone. Plus he looks ARROGANT as ever in his pic. I think shallash and jezrein will be the good guys, they both appear to be on the shattered plains. And jezrein has his blade back. Vedeledev will probably be a bad guy. Sorry to hijack, I went to look at what you were saying about the belt then thought of that. 

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11 hours ago, Harry the Heir said:

Part of me wonders if there's any connection to the fact that there are three moons of Roshar and the fact that there can only be three Bondsmiths. (And can you break up the other 9 orders of Knight Radiant to three groups of three?)

I think you might be on to something here. (which kinda sucks, because that theory in my signature that I wrote just yesterday would need some adjustments then)

In the WoK Ars Arcanum, it is noted that "A Basic Lashing involved revoking a being's or object's spiritual gravitational bond to the planet below, instead temporarily linking that being or object to a different object or direction."

Now, I myself first thought it would be a more... physical surge. Figured it might work through electromagnetic force (it's based on a theory that uses photons as quantum for Investiture, so electromagnetic force is only logical to use). However, that quote from the Ars Arcanum was already kind of itching me... and maybe indeed, it is possible to break up the Surges (and therefore the Knights Radiant) in three groups. I don't think it goes as nicely as "simply exclude bondsmiths" however (note: I change my mind on this later on in the post), because I think that the trios of Surges are the following (starting halfway but following the standard order of the Surges):

Illumination, Transformation, Transportation as Cognitive Surges.
Cohesion, Tension, Adhesion as Physical Surges.
Gravitation, Division, Abrasion as Spiritual Surges.
Progression as odd one out.

The thing with Progression is - it's actually something that all Surgebinders can use; Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, all are healing from all kinds of wounds. The only difference with Progression, is that it can be used on others.

Now, I only just, when reading your post, had this idea, so I haven't had a lot of time to think about it, but I do see some overarching themes within these trio's of Surges. Of the three Cognitive Surges, two clearly deal with the Cognitive Realm. While we haven't seen Illumination relate to the Cognitive Realm, it very well just might, even more when considering L-Theory, which my theory was based on, as it considers Lightweaving to be the base of all magic. The three Physical Surges are easy to put under one denominator - they're the "chemical" Surges, so to say. These three Surges together cover the base of all chemistry. And the last three, the Spiritual Surges, well, I had two of them working with electromagnetic force, as I mentioned earlier... but is there not a frequent connection, if not in the Cosmere then at least in other works, between electromagnetism and spirits and spiritual things? And even though I had Division as unrelated to that, we haven't actually seen Division in action, and might the be a way that it does work somehow related to electromagnetism?

Anyways, I also want to look at how we could probably use this to put the KR in groups, most likely the Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual groups. It is kind of logical to take the Bondsmiths as "odd one out" here, and have each of the three as leader of one of the groups of Knight Radiant. Which one goes where, I don't know. Anyways, this means that we somehow have to fill the "Physical" category, as Bondsmiths have the Surges of Tension and Adhesion.
There are only three Orders left that use at least one of the Physical Surges: Willshapers, Stonewards and Windrunners. We haven't seen Willshapers and Stonewards, but they seem to be down-to-earth (down-to-Roshar?), and the same seems to be true for Windrunners, who should do good when faced with "lawful or good". Now, the other two groups should automatically form and they should both end with Progression (I'm making this up as I go along and haven't counted it out beforehand).
In one direction, we get Skybreakers, Dustbringers and Edgedancers, the Spiritual Orders. Care about laws above all, are considered weird, ignore larger things in favor of smaller things. I like that for Spiritual Orders.
And in the other direction, we get Truthwatchers, Lightweavers and Elsecallers. Closed and secretive, artistic, and "prodigiously benevolent" (according to the author of Words of Radiance). Kind of fits Cognitive Orders doesn't it? And on top of that we indeed have the cutoff point at Progression.

So, I present to you, the Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual Orders of the Knights Radiant:

Leaders: the three Bondsmiths, one for each triplet of Orders.
Physical Orders: Willshapers, Stonewards, Windrunners.
Cognitive Orders: Truthwatchers, Lightweavers, Elsecallers.
Spiritual Orders: Skybreakers, Dustbringers, Edgedancers.

Now, if y'all don't mind, I'm gonna go revisit my Surgebinding theory.

Edited by Leyrann
Didn't link to L-Theory
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I remember reading somewhere that it was theorised that there could only be three bondsmiths as the bondsmiths only bonded with 'godspren' if you will. The three spren are of course the Stormfather, probably the Nightwatcher/some other incarnation of Cultivation and the spren incarnation of Odium.

5 hours ago, Leyrann said:

The thing with Progression is - it's actually something that all Surgebinders can use; Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, all are healing from all kinds of wounds. The only difference with Progression, is that it can be used on others.

Wasn't one of the main characteristics of Windrunners their large amount of squires? Each of those squires was also able to use surgebinding/at least absorb stormlight (therefore having accelerated healing) with Kaladin showing this at the end of WoR when Lopen absorbs stormlight and begins to regrow his lost arm.

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32 minutes ago, Blacksmithki said:

@Leyrann

Could you link to that L theory? Thanks.

L-Theory. My apologies for not linking to it. I am using it so much right now that I just forgot I didn't have a link in this post.

20 minutes ago, KhanBoltNo4503 said:

I remember reading somewhere that it was theorised that there could only be three bondsmiths as the bondsmiths only bonded with 'godspren' if you will. The three spren are of course the Stormfather, probably the Nightwatcher/some other incarnation of Cultivation and the spren incarnation of Odium.

Wasn't one of the main characteristics of Windrunners their large amount of squires? Each of those squires was also able to use surgebinding/at least absorb stormlight (therefore having accelerated healing) with Kaladin showing this at the end of WoR when Lopen absorbs stormlight and begins to regrow his lost arm.

As for the three bondsmiths being bonded with godspren, I indeed read that theory too, and I like it. We have no confirmation, but considering the Stormfather is one of them, it stands to reason that the other two are similar. The Nightwatcher is indeed a likely second one, and the logical third one would indeed be a spren related to Odium, but here the question is simply "How is a Knight Radiant bonded to something related to Odium". If we'd have two, or all three, I think it'd be easy to say which Bondsmith (and therefore spren) would belong to which of the three kinds of Surges. With just Dalinar I have no idea which of the three he'd lead though.

Squires can indeed use Surgebinding, but that is different from Progression. Progression is that the Surgebinder uses Stormlight and that someone else heals, while Squires can only heal themselves. Having said that, I could see Edgedancers having squires as well, and maybe - though I'm not sure about that one - Truthwatchers as well, and those squires would obviously be able to use Progression.

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9 hours ago, scifan said:

You sure that wasn't White Spine riding?

 

I suspect Hoid would find it challenging to keep riders out of trouble as a Clown for that event though... D:

No those things are too dangerous!!  Chull ridding is kind of the opposite of our bull riding. It literally takes no skill at all. You just sit there and see how long you stay there . 

Edited by StormingTexan
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53 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

If we'd have two, or all three, I think it'd be easy to say which Bondsmith (and therefore spren) would belong to which of the three kinds of Surges. With just Dalinar I have no idea which of the three he'd lead though.

I'm going to come back to this and actually say, yes, we do know which ones Dalinar would (does) lead. The Cognitive Surges and Orders. Why? Because Dalinar has that special trick together with Shallan for the Lightwoven map, and Shallan is part of a Cognitive Order.

Edited by Leyrann
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On 30/10/2017 at 8:01 PM, Crucible of Shards said:

If you haven't seen the new art from Oathbringer, here it is. If you zoom in on Jezrien, he has a belt with 10 circles making a larger circle, which I assume would be the symbols of the Radiant orders. However, there are three other circles within the larger one made by the 10. They are blue, green, and light pinkish/purple. Any ideas on what this might be or their significance?

Those are where he plugs in various diffenent spren to access his Shardbelt's alternative Rider Armour Forms.^_^

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