Benghis son son Kahn Posted June 5, 2021 Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 I'm 5 months in to my first Malazan world read and liking it a lot for the most part. With such a big TBR I wasn't sure if I would have it in me to come back to the world later so I'm reading MBotF together with ICE's Empire books, and I plan to finish up with Path to Ascendancy. 300 pages into Dust of Dreams right now. Besides for the middle 2 books of HoC, I really was liking every Erikson book better than the last one until Reaper's Gale, which I still liked but not as much as my favorite with Bonehunters. There were just a few too many Letheri POVs which were unnecessary in RG to love it as much. Then unfortunately TtH became a slogfest, and I don't care for immersion-breaking philosophizing, so it really was a huge step back. A good final 200 pages couldn't redeem 800 pages where I was simply bored. Dust of Dreams has mostly been back to form so far, but there are still sloggy moments and I fear more to come with the bad rep the book has. For first time readers, I would absolutely recommend reading Night of Knives and Orb Sceptre Throne along with the main 10. They're briskly paced and fun and added a lot to the main narrative for me, UNLIKE the disasters that were Return of the Crimson Guard and Stonewielder. I found these to be pale imitations of Erikson's books, with far too many POVs that were unnecessary or uninteresting or both. What is it with ICE and boring POV characters? It goes far beyond Kyle, too. I didn't find the books to be dense, but rather just disjointed and boring on the whole except for the climaxes, but as with TtH that's not a reading experience I appreciate. I was hoping all of ICE would read almost like palate cleansers like Night of Knives, but it wasn't to be. I wish I had more confidence in Blood and Bone and Assail, but given how hit or miss ICE has been I have no clue what to expect. At the very least I think I'll finish strong with the PtA books and will have the Karsa stuff to look forward to. There have been some incredible moments along the way (Beak might be a high point in all of my fantasy reading, highlighting Erikson's short story background I think with the force of some of his smaller vignettes), but the Malazan read I think has clarified for me what I love most, which is a style like Sanderson's that doesn't continually obscure key details from the reader and has more of a sense of progress on a first read. I also have a strong preference for Sanderson's clear-glass prose style over the more noticeable evocative/poetic language of Erikson, and I don't particularly enjoy muddling through prose with lots of subtext. I can fully understand why rereads are incredible experiences, but the slogginess sometimes I've felt due to characters/plot details being obscured is not what I like to feel on a first read. I also prefer a smaller cast of POV characters I can spend more time with and get more invested in like with Mistborn/Stormlight or the Faithful and the Fallen books by John Gwynne. That it's not my absolute preference doesn't take away from the incredible achievement that is the MBotF, and I really can't wait to see how it all ends soon. An extra note that I've been both reading it and listening to the audiobooks, and Lister absolutely killed it with most of the voices in books 1-3 (in a good way), and the Page transition in book 4 was rough, since he used slight variations on one dramatic-gravelly voice. They really should have switched to Page in book 5 with the new setting and cast (or never switched!), but he did get noticeably better. Page's Beak was amazing. Banks is ok but on a lower tier of narration for me for sure with decent voices but just less gravitas overall with the basic narration. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlion Blight Posted June 6, 2021 Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 Toll the Hounds is the most important Malazan book As far as Esslemont, Path of Ascendency is his best work to date. I feel with a lot of the Empire books, he got the "Esslemont will tell these stories or they won't be told at all" straw and he may not have been interested in most of them 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Ben Posted June 6, 2021 Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 14 hours ago, Hoiditthroughthegrapevine said: I think I'm with you on this one, I'm going to wait until the book is out too. I read the Prologue and a little bit of chapter 1, but it's been long enough since an Erickson Malazan release that I can wait to enjoy it in full. Lucky! I'd love to hear what you think of it after you finish it. I'm super excited for The God Is Not Willing, pretty awesome that it's post Crippled God! I have it on pre order so will hopefully get it day of release. Going to very interesting going back to post crippled god malazan for sure, although I have enjoyed ICEs path to ascendancy prequel books being honest. From what I have read Karsa isn't even in the first book and given how it's his trilogy is an interesting take on things, going by the book synopsis i think book has high potential. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine Posted June 8, 2021 Report Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) On 6/5/2021 at 4:01 PM, Benghis son son Kahn said: I'm 5 months in to my first Malazan world read and liking it a lot for the most part. Just looking through the rest of your post, you've gotten a lot under your belt in 5 months. On 6/5/2021 at 4:01 PM, Benghis son son Kahn said: Besides for the middle 2 books of HoC, I really was liking every Erikson book better than the last one until Reaper's Gale, which I still liked but not as much as my favorite with Bonehunters. There were just a few too many Letheri POVs which were unnecessary in RG to love it as much. Erickson's writing is not for everyone for sure, the perpetual mention of potsherds is a good indicator that with his archeological background, he's going to be taking the long view of events, always contextualized. The way some of the events (which admittedly seem off topic) eventually wrap back around into the main timeline narrative, truly is brilliant. The first time through, I too was a little bit put off by the events transpiring on a remote and disconnected continent, but after the denouement and a subsequent Reread its pretty amazing how he subtly wove the threads. On the first time through, Bug and Tehol's dynamic was worth the journey. On 6/5/2021 at 4:01 PM, Benghis son son Kahn said: Then unfortunately TtH became a slogfest, and I don't care for immersion-breaking philosophizing, so it really was a huge step back. A good final 200 pages couldn't redeem 800 pages where I was simply bored. Dust of Dreams has mostly been back to form so far, but there are still sloggy moments and I fear more to come with the bad rep the book has. Have to say first off that Toll of the Hounds is my favorite Malazan book and probably my 7th favorite book of all times (I took an informal polling of my functional dendrites, and I believe that sensation was general consensus). I really like the Kruppe narrative segues, the intersecting tradegies of Cutter/Crocus, Murrilio, and Harllo, and the convergence at the end of the book is one of the best endings of all times. I also almost threw in the towel at Dust of Dreams, but I am so glad I stuck it out for The Crippled God. Seriously MBotF has one of the most satisfying endings of all time, I'd like to hear what you think of it when you finish it. On 6/5/2021 at 4:01 PM, Benghis son son Kahn said: An extra note that I've been both reading it and listening to the audiobooks, and Lister absolutely killed it with most of the voices in books 1-3 (in a good way), I totally agree, Ralph Lister is one of best audio book narrators of all times, and with the exception of his Karsa Orlong (who sounds like a looney tunes simpleton) he got every voice just about perfect. If you like Lister, he narrates James Clavelle's Shogun, which coming in at 50+ hours and being a thoroughly enjoyable, historically accurate though highly romanticized story, is a good use of an audible credit (I got it thanks to a recommendation by @Ammanas). On 6/5/2021 at 4:01 PM, Benghis son son Kahn said: the Page transition in book 4 was rough, since he used slight variations on one dramatic-gravelly voice. They really should have switched to Page in book 5 with the new setting and cast (or never switched!), but he did get noticeably better. Page's Beak was amazing. Banks is ok but on a lower tier of narration for me for sure with decent voices but just less gravitas overall with the basic narration. I agree for the most part with all of this, but I do think Michael Page's Karsa is perfect. I hope that he does the narration for The God Is Not Willing because his Karsa is SO good! I agree that his Beak is outstanding, and he does a great job with Bottle too. I think Jonathan Banks does a good job with the ICE books, the problem is with the source material not so much the narration. Based on the ICE books that you like, I think there is a good chance you'll like Blood and Bone, it's pretty atmospheric and it has some really good suspense too. I don't think I know anyone that likes Assail though, a pretty big turd of a book, but definitely something to read for readings sake I guess. On 6/6/2021 at 2:04 AM, Quick Ben said: Going to very interesting going back to post crippled god malazan for sure, although I have enjoyed ICEs path to ascendancy prequel books being honest. From what I have read Karsa isn't even in the first book and given how it's his trilogy is an interesting take on things, going by the book synopsis i think book has high potential. Yeah, excited to see what Erickson does in a post Crippled God world. I read an interview with Erickson where he said Karsa might not even be in the first 2 books of the Witness trilogy, kind of ironic with his megalomaniacal catchphrase being the official name of the trilogy. Erickson does like his irony though. Edited June 8, 2021 by Hoiditthroughthegrapevine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammanas Posted June 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) @Benghis son son Kahn Don’t have much to add to @Hoiditthroughthegrapevine astute remarks but regarding a few things On 6/5/2021 at 6:01 PM, Benghis son son Kahn said: ttes), but the Malazan read I think has clarified for me what I love most, which is a style like Sanderson's that doesn't continually obscure key details from the reader and has more of a sense of progress on a first read. I also have a strong preference for Sanderson's clear-glass prose style over the more noticeable evocative/poetic language of Erikson, and I don't particularly enjoy muddling through prose with lots of subtext. I can fully understand why rereads are incredible experiences, but the slogginess sometimes I've felt due to characters/plot details being obscured is not what I like to feel on a first read As much as I love this series it’s very difficult to recommend it to others. It’s a huge commitment and only for seasoned and well established fantasy readers. It’s hard to tell someone that much of the series will only make sense on rereads after they’ve read these massive tombs. The rereads are very rewarding. But I understand how people don’t like puzzles when they read... On a side note Christopher Rucchio and Justin Call are writing some top notch books at the moment that are very good and much more accessible. I’m current reading Master Artificer by Call. I personally found Dust of Dreams to be the biggest slog of the series outside of Kharkanus but it has my favorite convergence at the end. Orb Sceptre Throne is probably my favorite ICE book but my second favorite is Stonewielder. I really liked out the book was a meditation of “faith” in all of its different forms and it has one of the best sea landing and battles of the series. I personally like Blood and Bone. I think one has more appreciation for it if they have read and enjoyed Conrad’s Heart of Darkness or Coppola’s Apacolypse Now. edit: first initial thoughts I’ve seen from someone who’s read the first witness book. From werthead on Westeros forum: It's a fun book, though a bit oddball. It's Erikson's shortest Malazan novel to date (473 pages) and the story is focused almost entirely on two concentrated plot threads taking place a constrained geographical area. It does feel like Erikson has tried to go accessible for this one, at least by his previous standards. Rereading Book One of House of Chains may be a good idea, because although Karsa doesn't show up, a lot of the other characters and locations from that arc do. Edited June 8, 2021 by Ammanas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benghis son son Kahn Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 16 hours ago, Hoiditthroughthegrapevine said: Have to say first off that Toll of the Hounds is my favorite Malazan book and probably my 7th favorite book of all times (I took an informal polling of my functional dendrites, and I believe that sensation was general consensus). I really like the Kruppe narrative segues, the intersecting tradegies of Cutter/Crocus, Murrilio, and Harllo, and the convergence at the end of the book is one of the best endings of all times. Thanks for such a thoughtful response, I really enjoyed reading yours and Ammanas's replies. It really doesn't surprise me to see you discussing Toll the Hounds as your favorite of the series, probably for many of the reasons it connected with me the least. It does seem like it's made up of the most distilled, pure MBotF essence (trademark, copyright) of all the ones I've finished so far at least. I agree that it had some intensely tragic arcs, but they were almost too much for me to handle altogether (I think I like a greater ratio of hopeful/non-tragic arcs to tragic ones than is in TtH for sure). I'm happy to hear Blood and Bone is worth the effort, and I may just skip Assail based on your note about it. And yeah, Page's Karsa is undoubtedly perfect and the main good thing to come out of the switch of narrators. Hearing Lister does Shogun makes me so happy, and it's gonna shoot up my TBR--I loved the movie the Last Samurai, so that whole setting and type of plot is very appealing to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benghis son son Kahn Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 10 hours ago, Ammanas said: As much as I love this series it’s very difficult to recommend it to others. It’s a huge commitment and only for seasoned and well established fantasy readers. It’s hard to tell someone that much of the series will only make sense on rereads after they’ve read these massive tombs. The rereads are very rewarding. But I understand how people don’t like puzzles when they read... On a side note Christopher Rucchio and Justin Call are writing some top notch books at the moment that are very good and much more accessible. I’m current reading Master Artificer by Call. Thanks for the recs! I follow Mike's Book Reviews on Youtube pretty religiously since our tastes (and ages) align better than most booktubers, so I saw his Ruocchio interview and definitely want to dive into the Sun Eater series at some point. Call was not on my radar though and I'll throw his series on my TBR! And yeah, Malazan is a much tougher rec to make to more casual readers than crowdpleasers like Mistborn or Riyria. I'm pretty well-seasoned and have been able to follow plot threads w/o much trouble and make connections within and across books, but in the end it's not my desired reading experience. I'd prefer I think to just luxuriate in a fairly straightforward tale with characters I can fully root for and be invested in (Mistborn, Stormlight, Faithful and the Fallen, Dresden, and Riyria are my favorites). I can completely see why you'd like Stonewielder for its really well done theme of exploring faith, but at this point in my life I just don't have the interest in that side of literature. A few years ago I switched from mostly reading literary fiction to almost exclusively fantasy/sci-fi I think somewhat for that reason. No doubt Erikson does some of the deepest work with theme in the genre, and listening to academics like AP Canavan and Philip Chase break down the themes in each book on Youtube is interesting--but it seems like they get much more out of all that than I do. Thankfully there's so much else than just theme and symbolism to enjoy in MBotF, and on the whole I'm happy to have taken the plunge--I've definitely had some late nights when I needed to finish some of the books, and while I may not love all the thematic stuff, I have no doubt that the series has made my worldview more nuanced, complex, and empathetic than it was before. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammanas Posted June 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 A very promising review of the new Malazan book. According the the reviewer it’s seems to be everything I was hoping it to be. https://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2021/06/the-god-is-not-willing-by-steven-erikson.html?m=1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Ben Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 Just seen this on reddit https://amp.reddit.com/r/Malazan/comments/o77yzg/the_jhistal_cancelled_by_publisher/ Anyone any the wiser ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlion Blight Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 Sounds like it's a missed deadline/ rescheduling issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Ben Posted July 1, 2021 Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 Just arrived today 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 On 7/1/2021 at 10:28 AM, Quick Ben said: Just arrived today Just per-ordered my copy of the God is Not Willing (should arrive November 9th) good Thanksgiving reading that, if I can hold off reading it until then. What did you think of it @Quick Ben? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine Posted September 25, 2021 Report Share Posted September 25, 2021 Sorry to double post, but this is good stuff. This news comes via @Ammanas, there is a pretty amazing update about the Esselmont prequels at the Wertzone: https://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2021/09/ian-c-esslemont-sells-million-books.html?m=1 You can read the publisher summaries of the next 3 books in the Paths of Ascendancy series, taking us all the way up to the bridgeburner action in Mott Wood and Black Dog forest. Pretty awesome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlion Blight Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 That is excellent news and justifies the double post! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine Posted November 20, 2021 Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 Got my copy of The God Is Not Willing, and boy did they ever do a bang up job at the warehouse fitting my shipment to the proper package. No, your eyes don't deceive you, verily that is a 4' x 2.5' x 6" box to accommodate my 2 books. The tetris warehouse wizard used 8,640 cubic inches of space to ship my 107.5 cubic inches of books. Brilliant! We're having Thanksgiving early this year, the feast is tomorrow, so I plan on reading this after our repast until Hypnos veils my eyes with tryptophan laden slumber. Life is good, and it's even better with rice krispie treats! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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