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Ammanas

Favorite Malazan Book  

15 members have voted

  1. 1. Favorite Malazan Book

    • GotM
      0
    • DG
      0
    • MoI
      5
    • HoC
      0
    • MT
      3
    • Bonehunters
      3
    • RG
      2
    • TtH
      2
    • DoD
      0
    • CG
      0
    • FoD
      0
    • FoL
      0
    • KoK
      0
    • RotCG
      0
    • Stonewielser
      0
    • OST
      0
    • BoB
      0
    • Assail
      0
    • Dancers Lament
      0
    • Deadhouse Landing
      0
    • Kellanved's Reach
      0


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So are you starting Fall of Light next @hoiditthroughthegrapevine? The Kharkanus books were a shock for just about everyone I think! Most of us were expecting the adventures of a young Rake  but instead he’s not really present and it much more of a dark contemplative book. I honestly have no idea how the editors and publishers approved it. I have come to appreciate it but I think that anyone could know it wouldn’t sell well. It’s kind of for diehard fans only.

In juxtaposition I think anyone could pick up Esslemonts early Empire books and have fun with it.

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7 hours ago, Ammanas said:

So are you starting Fall of Light next @hoiditthroughthegrapevine? The Kharkanus books were a shock for just about everyone I think! Most of us were expecting the adventures of a young Rake  but instead he’s not really present and it much more of a dark contemplative book. I honestly have no idea how the editors and publishers approved it. I have come to appreciate it but I think that anyone could know it wouldn’t sell well. It’s kind of for diehard fans only.

In juxtaposition I think anyone could pick up Esslemonts early Empire books and have fun with it.

For all his talk of "post-modernism" and such to elevate his series to a higher artform than genre fiction, Erikson forgets one key thing: people read Malazan for escapism and entertainment. 

And we can see that in comparing the reception of the Kharkanus books with the reception of the Dancer books. I don't think Ian is smarter or more insightful than Erikson, he just chose to tell a story with fun characters. 

The Tiste Andii are not fun in large doses. That's kinda the point, but it goes against what people wanted in a Malazan book. Hence why Ammanas said the Kharkanus books were for diehard fans only. There are no fun characters, no fun plots, nothing that fans were looking forward to that they would call epic. It just appealed to folks who want to see whatever Erikson does and folks that enjoy combing volumes for bits of lore.

The Karsa books should have funner characters and plot points. Should. I just wonder if fans will give him another chance. 

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I think Erikson knows he went a little overboard with the Karkanus books. It was also a huge blow for him when he realized the Kharkanus books were not selling well. It looks like a took a long look at himself and realized things needed to change. He immediately opened up a Facebook page and tries to sell himself a bit more. His writing style is much more similar to his earlier writings (a conscious decision on his part and seems to have made good on it judging from the prologue he released). Steven Erikson has too much talent to not keep giving him chances. I think most readers that make it through The Crippled God will agree. It will always be a niche audience though. Much of his original ten books only makes sense on rereads and the casual reader doesn’t have the patience and time for it. I think the audience that finished the Crippled God will keep on trying his new Malazan entry points though.
 

I chuckle to myself though because no matter how much Erikson wants to “go commercial”. He just can’t do it completely; evidently the first Karsa book will not even have Karsa in it! He will be referenced and talked about but not present. Oh well...he is kind of like a authors equivalent to a mad genius and I think most fans are willing to cut him a little slack.

I am also excited to see how the Malazan empire is doing under Mallick Rel. I know it’s a unpopular opinion but I think Mallick is the perfect ruler for the way the empire is currently. They do not need the charismatic leader of a founder such as Kellenved; I think it would create to much instability. Surly was too brittle and unyielding to rule. It’s become (or at least becoming) a Empire of paper pushers and bureaucracy (as depicted in the Esslemont books). What it needs is a political animal that can pull strings, compromise, and keep the boat steady. This is Mallick Rel as ICE depicts him. 

Edited by Ammanas
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@Ammanas Yeah, I'm reading Fall of Light right now, and I'm liking it a lot! I'm going to talk about specific things in both FoD and FoL, spoilered below.

Spoiler

I didn't really like Grissin Farl in FoD, but his dialogues with Silchas Ruin and Rise Herat are some of my favorite in all of Malazan. I really like the story about how he became the Protector who defends nothing after his youthful days of righting inequity with violent retribution, and how he initially was drawn to the Forulkan ideals of Justice, until he saw that Justice was unevenly applied (ala Animal Farm Everyone's Equal But Some are More Equal Than Others), and in the last act of youthful violence he drank deep of the wine of slaughter by destroying the Forulkan High Council and the Assembly (the extended metaphor of spilt wine for this scene was incredibly well done). This then extended by the fact that a sect of Forulkan began worshiping him as a God of Divine Retribution makes me wonder if Grizzin Farl was the Forkrul Assail god that the Assail killed and who then became the Locusts/Butterflies D'ivers in the Glass Desert. This would be very fitting indeed, because of how this God was called down by Badal as divine retribution to obliterate with finality the Forkrul Assail.

One of my favorite scenes in any book is the part where the scholar Sagander is imagining a gallery, like a courtroom, filled with all of the people that have wronged him over the course of his miserable life, each in turn brought to the fore, duly contrite and remorseful for the wrongs that they have done to him, so that they can be made to grovel at his feet and ask for Mecry, at which point he turns it around and asks the rhetorical question, "Which of you has ever shown me Mercy". Sagander's scholarship is just an alternate route to power (like a Leon Trotsky) with the ultimate aim of seeing his enemies cowering before him on their knees. You get a glimpse of this in FoD when he's setting out to visit the Azathanai and he fantasizes about the renown he will have once he returns, and how he will be once again at the apex of scholarship and he can make all those who derided him pay for their lack of respect. He's just a bitter, bitter man.

On my reread of MBoF I loved the Tiste Liosan scenes! Between the Assail and the Liosan, Erickson has amassed a mental gallery of every self-important character trait for the truly pompous, self-congratulatory, non-self reflective type of person and then created characters based on these traits and set them loose in a world where they are hoisted by their own petards. So fun to read!

It's really fun to read about the cast that makes up the founding luminaries of the Liosan, and see how the biggest Prigs in all of Malazan evolved from normal Tiste stock. Hun Ruul's development from drunken scheming orchestrator of the resurgence of the Legion to arch-mage of Light is great, I particularly like the scene with Olar Etheal in the cookfire, where she seduces him into making a scepter of Light, and how she appears because of Hun Ruul's precipitous use of too much power (belying the old Malazan truth that power forever draws power, and sometimes that power comes to destroy). Cintara's purely lateral development is great too, in that it comes only in the form changing the justifications underpinning her vanity and thirst for power, oh so noble. And Urusander, Father Light himself, who finds himself spiraling ever downwards because of the rigidity and inflexibility of his thoughts. His treatment of Osserc in FoD was horrible to watch (but then Osserc is impetuousness without self-reflection personified). His obsession with justice is pathetic because he lacks the realization that justice without compassion is a cold, mechanical thing that serves no one except those in power. He is a somewhat tragic figure, but his inaction in the face of true injustice makes him thoroughly despicable in FoL. I really liked the dinner dialogues he had with Kadaspala in FoD, but even then he was on track to be just a figurehead, the impotent leader that leads by inaction and is pushed along. I think it's interesting that the one unifying self delusion that they all maintain is that they are working towards some ideal of justice, but really, when that justice is examined it's really just a self-serving rationalization. Sounds like Grizzin Farl should be drinking some wine in the Tiste Leosan camp...

Envy, Spite and Malice. Holy crap, the scene in FoD where they try to awaken Malice to her power and then go on the killing spree is one of the most chilling in all of Malazan! This is a pretty amazing painting of the creepy triplets right before the "Ovening" from the Malazan wiki spoilered below:

I am still only about half way through FoL, but is it ever revealed in FoL what Kaladin Brood inscribed on Andarist's and Enesdia's hearthstone?

I really like how FoD begins with Azathanai inscription "There will be Peace" lintel entrance to Dracon's hold, and how that mirrors Brood's vow to Anomander.

After the second time through MBoF, I am still unsure about the Jaghut. The parts with the Jaghut in FoD and FoL I am likewise unsure about. I really want to like Gothos, but it seems like there's a piece of the puzzle still missing with the Jaghut. I think they are successful alien characters, because their motivations and intentions are opaque, but it seems like between Hood, Rayst and Gothos there will be a key to decipher there otherwise bewildering actions. Hood's bite of Calm was so unexpected in TCG, even the 2nd time through I had forgotten about it, but what a powerful scene. I love the line after he does that "I've never liked the Forkrul Assail", way to underscore yourpoint Hood.

 

On 4/3/2020 at 5:13 AM, Ammanas said:

The Kharkanus books were a shock for just about everyone I think! Most of us were expecting the adventures of a young Rake  but instead he’s not really present and it much more of a dark contemplative book. I honestly have no idea how the editors and publishers approved it. I have come to appreciate it but I think that anyone could know it wouldn’t sell well. It’s kind of for diehard fans only.

In juxtaposition I think anyone could pick up Esslemonts early Empire books and have fun with it.

Yeah, those Malazan reading orders where they suggest reading The Kharkanus books before the Book of The Fallen are not doing new readers any favors, that's for sure. I honestly didn't know what to expect when I started reading Kharkanus, but I had a vague impression that this series would be framed around showing 3 things: The mysteries behind Sandalath Drukorlat's haunting memories and spiral into madness in TCG, the civil war where Ruin is pitted against Rake, and the Heroic stand of the Legion against the assault from Starvald Demelain.

Erickson is a successful author, he should be able to write and publish whatever he wants. That said, I do get the sense that he is fragile guy, and as he dismisses accolades and praise he is really covering his eyes, feigning not to care, while still secretly peeking out through the gaps in his fingers and hoping that everyone is realizing his genius (and genius he is). To borrow a WOT term, Kharkanus is written in High Chant, and I think it's precisely because he has little to no contempt for his fans that he thought that he could publish these books. I get that they are not everybody's cup of tea, they aren't my favorite Malazan books, but there are moments in them that are some of my favorite moments in all of Malazan, and so I think they are definitely worth the journey.

I know I spend a lot of time in seeming defense of Erickson, I love the ICE books, he's a great writer, but I do think that maybe Erickson doesn't really get the credit or due that he deserves. The tragedy of Kadaspala over the entire course Erickson's books stands up against anything the Greeks have done (there are definitely parts of his story that are derivative of Greek Tragedy, but the application of his particular suffering is unique). The haunting of Kadaspala by the face of the dead Denier boy, and how he will paint this face over and over and over again and force everyone to look at the true face of injustice, combined with his master work in Dragnipur is nothing short of brilliant.

Don't get me wrong, I love the ICE books too. Stonewielder is probably my 7th or 8th favorite Malazan book, but I guess that if I had to pick my dog in the race it would be Erickson all the way. You guys are all great, and I respect your opinions. To get into the realm of the shallow prejudgement sort, like the High Fidelity notion of it's not who you are but what you like that counts, I am predisposed to like people that like Malazan, foraging for wild mushrooms, Philip K. Dick, Dostoevsky, Plutarch, and to a lesser extent as time goes on Brandon Sanderson (after reading Oathbringer this was much higher, but recently the formula behind it all has started to show a bit more (Skyward could have been written by Plotbot 2000). I have been told many times that I express my opinion in a somewhat offensive way, it's not my intent to offend, you guys are all great and it's incredibly fun to talk about Malazan.

23 hours ago, Orlion the Platypus said:

For all his talk of "post-modernism" and such to elevate his series to a higher artform than genre fiction, Erikson forgets one key thing: people read Malazan for escapism and entertainment.

But that's not why he writes it, he's a griper of epic scope. Malazan could be retitled as "On the Virtue of Uncertainty and Compassion, or How I Dislike all the miserable little poops (use the swear word there instead) in the World". Does the fact that it's entertaining make the bitter pill easier to swallow? Yes, yes it does. Do I like to use rhetorical questions that I then answer myself? Yes, yes I do.

23 hours ago, Orlion the Platypus said:

The Tiste Andii are not fun in large doses. That's kinda the point, but it goes against what people wanted in a Malazan book. Hence why Ammanas said the Kharkanus books were for diehard fans only. There are no fun characters, no fun plots, nothing that fans were looking forward to that they would call epic. It just appealed to folks who want to see whatever Erikson does and folks that enjoy combing volumes for bits of lore.

Yep they are a dour bunch, and when the closest thing you have to comic relief is Dathanar and Prazek, the two heroes of legend that take 5 paragraphs of highly effusive text to tell a joke, then yep, you don't have the same mass appeal. Scorch and Leff they are not.

Also, it's a fairly strange notion to have proto-gods living in squalid villages. The Azathanai are an odd bunch for sure, but it's an interesting exploration into what could true elemental power be like.

The plot is, like you say, nearly non-existent. I'm half way through Fall of Light and all Urusander has done is pace around his command tent. There isn't much in the way of action, but it's also the time of foundation when the abstract is accreting into the concrete, where symbol is being clothed in flesh. Is there too much exposition/monologue/internal thinking? Only the parts that are reiterations that have been said better in other places, but this is a function of them being themes that preoccupy Erickson. Every great artist, like Kadaspala, has primary themes that they circle back to, with slightly different takes on, this is the nuance of their craft. I personally could do with a bit less of the monologues/didactic speeches, but I can make my way through them because the journey is truly worthwhile.

23 hours ago, Orlion the Platypus said:

The Karsa books should have funner characters and plot points. Should. I just wonder if fans will give him another chance. 

 

22 hours ago, Ammanas said:

I chuckle to myself though because no matter how much Erikson wants to “go commercial”. He just can’t do it completely; evidently the first Karsa book will not even have Karsa in it! He will be referenced and talked about but not present. Oh well...he is kind of like a authors equivalent to a mad genius and I think most fans are willing to cut him a little slack.

I think the Witness books are going to be great! I thought the prologue was good, and I hope that they sell well too for Erickson's sake.

22 hours ago, Ammanas said:

am also excited to see how the Malazan empire is doing under Mallick Rel. I know it’s a unpopular opinion but I think Mallick is the perfect ruler for the way the empire is currently. They do not need the charismatic leader of a founder such as Kellenved; I think it would create to much instability. Surly was too brittle and unyielding to rule. It’s become (or at least becoming) a Empire of paper pushers and bureaucracy (as depicted in the Esslemont books). What it needs is a political animal that can pull strings, compromise, and keep the boat steady. This is Mallick Rel as ICE depicts him.

I'm excited for The Jhistal too! That was one of the big shocks reading the ICE books that Mallick became the new emperor, that made me really mad at first. But he's such a good character, the kind that you love to hate, and it's very interesting to think what the Empire will look like with him at the helm.

One last thing and then my mini-novella is done. I was waiting in line at Trader Joe's for 30 minutes yesterday, and had time to read the first 6 pages of Erickson's new Bauchelain and Korbral Broach novella, and it's really good, and very prescient in this time where we are being stalked by the specter of encircling death, and decisions as to how much should we pay to stave of the assault are being made. He's only gotten through 7 pages so far (it's going to be ~50,000 word novella), but it's thoroughly enjoyable, here's the first page, the rest can be found on his facebook page, so good!

Spoiler

BandK_Page_01.thumb.jpg.05e4fdf15ab4ec0f58efc457da017047.jpg

 

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Insightful and in-depth as always @hoiditthroughthegrapevine! The question you asked about Fall of Light I don’t know the answer to. I am more of a visual learner and have only listened to the Kharkanus books and haven’t actually read it like I have with Eriksons other books. I can get away with simpler stories and even ICE with audiobooks and catch just about everything but not with more complex novels and series.

I don’t have anything to add except I enjoyed all you had to say.

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Yeah, I'm listening to Fall of Light, and it's definitely one that I have to rewind on occasion to get some of the nuance, eventually I'll get the book too.

Did you have trouble suspending disbelief during the scenes were Skillen Droe was talking? It's kind of hard to merge the two ideas of a flying Shi'gall Assassin with the voice of Sean Connery. The closest I get is a flying dinosaur with Sean connery's head (specifically how he looks in In the Name of the Rose). "Some things in this Warren don't react to well to bullets", Skillen Droe says in his rolling Scottish brogue.

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Haha just a bit! The narrator for Fall of Light was the weakest Malazan narrator in my opinion. He wasn’t horrible, but nowhere close to my favorite: John Banks. Banks also does a fantastic job of The Books of Babel series by Bancroft with the first one being Senlin Ascends. It is a very different series from Malazan but unique in a lot of ways and really fun.

A lot of people really like Ralph Lister and again he is alright, but his voice comes across as too much of snarl in every sentence he utters. It’s just a personal preference thing and Gardens of the Moon is the only audiobook of own of the original ten. I’ve heard Michael Page in the Lynch books and does a good job but noticed he struggles when he gets outside of small casts. I still would like to hear him narrate a full Malazan book some day. I thought the Forge narrator did a decent job and would of liked for him to continue with Fall of Light.

Edited by Ammanas
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Yeah, I really like the FoD narrator too, and I think the narrator for FoL is pretty far from good (the Thel Skai comedic bits are painful to get through, I kind of cringe when I'm listening to my audiobook and doing dishes and my wife comes into the kitchen when the Thel Akai crew are jabbering, kind of embarrassing really), but it's crazy how much his Grizzin Farl sounds like the narrator from FoD!

I loved Ralph Lister's reading for the first 3 Malazan Books, he is the voice I hear when I read dialog by Ganoes Paran, in the same way that when I read Song of Ice and Fire I hear Tyrion speak with Roy Dotrice's voice (such a great performance that, too bad that he's passed on). Do yourself a favor and get the Lister narrated Memories of Ice, his Itkovian is phenomenal, possibly one of my favorite characters in any work of fiction, and Lister does him perfect!

I really like Johnathan Banks Novels of the Malazan Empire, he's got a great voice, fun understated and with a nice range too. Michael Page is great for books 4 through 10 of MBoF, with the exception of Badal of the Rivvy snake, holy crap, it turns the pretentiousness of one of Erickson's most pretentious characters up to 11. But that said, his Karsa Orlong is absolutely perfect, and his Shadowthrone and Cotillion are great, his Kalam and Quick Ben are spot on, he really does about 90% of it right, and on subsequent listen throughs his worst characterizations are nowhere near as bad as Lister's painful, slowly articulated K-ru-p-pe of Da-ru-ji-st-an.

If you have an extra Audible credit kicking around, the best deal going right now is to get The Complete Fiction of H.P. Lovecraft, it's over 50 hours of Lovecraft, narrated incredibly well, and includes 74 stories, brilliant!

Speaking of Audible credits, I am going to have one pretty soon, and was wondering if any of you all have Read/Listened to The Red Knight, the first book in the Traitor Son Cycle by Miles Cameron. I listened to the preview, the narrator sounded good, the prose was better than average, and the author is a Medieval scholar type, and the books are supposedly very realistic but also fun to read/listen too. Also the book series if 5 books long, and is complete. Have any of you read/listened to these books and if so, what did you think?

The Books of Babel series sounds fun, but I like to use my credits to get books that are 20+ hours. I like Johnathan Banks a lot though, just listening to the sample of Senlin Ascends makes me want to listen to Return of the Crimson Guard!

Edited by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
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I’ve tried the Traitor Son books a few different times and couldn’t get into it. A lot of people that enjoy the same type of books I do love that series though. I know@officiumdefunctorum is a fan of the series and recommends it. Definitely give it a try. Worst case scenario you can ask for a return and audible has never given me problems with that. There are a few similarities it shows with Malazan that there is a good chance you will like it. I might give it another shot one of these days.

I’ve read quite a few Lovecraft stories, but am more of a fan of his contemporary Clark Ashton Smith. I’m not currently a audible member and usually sign up again if they have a special deal like they occasionally throughout the year. So I’ll keep that in mind.

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  • 1 month later...

It’s been awhile since anyone as commented on this thread, so please forgive the double post. Just finished my second time listening to Blood and Bone and a few thoughts. Great, great setting. Not enough jungle books in the fantasy genre. Loved the interaction between Golan and Thorn. That ending though...needlessly vague and frustrating. Not even Bill who ran the old Tor Malazan reread knew what was going on at the temple and with Osseric. One commentator though did get it right in my opinion. Full credit goes to him

Spoiler

Saeng intervened in the ritual the other Mages were using to calling down the visitor to destroy Kallor. They were using a well of Power of Thyrellen at the Temple. She couldn’t fully control it and it was threatening to become a gate for it to fully manifest like Black Coral. Osseric has been trying to keep it contained from the beginning. He pushed the visitor aside but a chunk broke off and smashed him as with another chunk did with Kallor. When he did this he broke the channel of power that was connecting the Temple and the visitor and Threllen power then dissipated.

Im guessing also Spite was going to use a piece of the crippled God to siphon off power to kill her sister but when the events of The Crippled God book happened the remaining pieces  became useless. That is he was transformed and sent back to his own realm. He didn’t need all of his pieces just most of him.

Is that how everyone else interpreted the events? Like I said it’s very vague and confusing. Blood and bone is still my second or third favorite of ICEs original six books. OST first and it switches places with Stonewielder.

Edited by Ammanas
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Anything in particular the is causing you problems @Briar King? It is a little disorienting being thrown into a new land and with new characters but still a easier entry than the Ten main books in my opinion. If it helps if you like Kallor you will like this book. I don’t consider it a spoiler because it’s pretty obvious pretty early that it is him. Also  there is quite a bit of Queen of Dreams. Just trying to stoke up some excitement for you ;). Let me know if you have any questions while everything is still fresh on my mind if initial confusion is causing you problems 

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23 minutes ago, Briar King said:

Dont know if these people are Indian(country) or Oriental.

I imagine the country (in the real world) that Jacaruku most closely imitates is Vietnam. With its vast jungles and how the people look like. Also how they live as well before French occupation and the Vietnam war etc.

 

 

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My problem with Blood and Bone, and Assail, is that it never felt like the tension ramped up.  I was interested at the beginning of each book, but the pacing rarely changed from the beginning.

ICE did do a really good job describing the jungle setting, horror sequences, and naval battles.

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1 hour ago, Who Sharded? said:

is that it never felt like the tension ramped up.

That is a very good point. I am actually enjoying that aspect of Assail right now; a bunch of different parties are approaching the continent and you can feel the tension build. I guess I wasn’t in the right mindset my first time through because I am enjoying Assail much more this time around.

The whole journey in Blood and Bone reminded me a lot of Apocalypse Now and Heart of Darkness. Both suffered from a anticlimactic ending, but I loved the nightmare journey to get there. The ending is almost inconsequential compared to the journey itself. I understand how it can be frustrating for most readers though.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 5/15/2020 at 3:48 PM, Ammanas said:

The whole journey in Blood and Bone reminded me a lot of Apocalypse Now and Heart of Darkness. Both suffered from a anticlimactic ending, but I loved the nightmare journey to get there. The ending is almost inconsequential compared to the journey itself. I understand how it can be frustrating for most readers though.

I totally agree with this, I loved the atmosphere of this book, and Esselmont's jungle descriptions are some of his best work. The torpid, unnerving drift up the river reminded me of heart of darkness and consequently one of my favorite movies of all times, Herzog's Aguire Wrath of God.

The rest of this is spoilered, has spoilers for Blood and Bone and FoD and FoL (sorry Briar King!)

Spoiler

Blood and Bone is not one of my favorites mostly because of how one of the best minor villains in all of fantasy, Skinner, went out with such a whimper. I really liked Kallor in this one.

So awhile back I finished Forge of Darkness and Fall of Light, and have been waiting until I had enough time to write up a decent post, and I'm really looking forward to hear what you all thought of the Kharkanus books.

Spoilers for FoD and FoL

Spoiler

My expectations were tamped down a bit by the love it or hate it response that I'd seen for these books, but honestly I have a hard time believing that Malazan fans wouldn't like these books. I guess the fact that it's about the Tiste gives them a general oppressive and somewhat depressing atmosphere, but that should have been a given knowing the Andii are the origin of EMO, the Liosan are the definition of blinded by their own moral light, and the Edur are just lost somewhere in the muddle.

The Azathanai were great! I loved the scene where T'riss fashioned her dress and a horse out of grass, and it was great to see the forging of the bond between Caladan Brood and Anomander. Olar Ethal was great in FoL, especially the scene where Hunn Raal's careless use of power draws her to him and she makes him get intimate with a campfire. I'm looking forward to see more of the fallout of the murder by Errastas and Sechul Lath, and hopefully we'll get more of the story of Hood's assault on death.

I also loved the part where Finarra Stone fought the dead yet animate corpse of the eleint on the shores of the Vitr. One of my favorite parts in all of malazan was the night of blood at Dracons hold when Envy, Spite, and Malice decide to leave ("Names shouldn't be curses"). Poor horrible little Malice, she never had a chance to be truly awful.

I love the character study of the origin of the Liosan, all the flawed and fractured ways different individuals arrived at a truly morally blind sense of moral superiority. Sagander is one of the true great villains in all of Malazan, his contempt and jealousy of others twisting him into a hateful, spiteful snake of a man, quick to blame others for his own shortcomings was perfectly realized. His fantasy of triumphantly lording over his greatness to the many who have slighted him is one of the best character studies in all of Malazan, i was a little disappointed that his arc fizzled out like it did, but I loved him as a villain.

My heart aches for Kadaspala, but the scene where he begins sketching the dead face of the Denier boy with his phantom paint brushes was so good, and knowing how his story ends makes it all the more heartbreaking. I loved his dinner time chats with Urasander too.

It was great seeing the transformation of Endest Selan too, the fact that Mother Dark used his weeping stigmata hands as her eyes was a nice detail.

The only parts that fell flat for me where the weak attempts at comic interludes. The whole Lasa Rook and Hanneco bits could have been removed, and the Dathenar and Prazek banter scenes were in the main long winded and overdone (though they do manage to still get in some of my favorite lines).

While most Malazan is traditional plot driven exciting story fare, the Kharkanus books feel more like a series of interwoven essays, kind of like if Montagne's essays were built around a central narrative arc.

All in all I loved the first two books, edge of your seat action they're not, but they are in the top 5 of Malazan for me. I'm loking forward to rereading them before Walk in Shadows comes out.

What did you all think of the Kharkanus books?

What were some of your favorite parts?

Or what really bothered you about them?

Edited by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
Added a spoiler tag, sorry Briar King
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2 hours ago, Briar King said:

i shall no longer read this thread till I finally fin BaB and Assail in about a years time the rate I’m going through them.

I'm so sorry, I thought you were doing a reread, I feel like a total jerk. I'll spoiler everything from here on out. Sorry again about that!

*Edit*

I'm going to go back through all of my posts and add spoilers, contrition without action is useless.

Sorry again!

Edited by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 months later...

So I’m guessing the Jhistal isn’t happening next month? No cover art, not up for preorder even in the U.K. It’s so odd...no announcement or word of a delay. It just disappeared from all places to purchase it. Hopefully we will get word soon about when we can expect to get our next Malazan fix. 

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  • 2 months later...

Finally listened to @Hoiditthroughthegrapevine and started listening to the original ten Erikson Malazan audiobooks. Currently on Deadhouse Gates. I have found them enjoyable but I cannot even imagine going through these books the first time with the audiobook route. Even though I’ve read these books twice of my attention wonders even for a second we’ve already switched characters and I’m lost on a scene. Although this may be because of my learning style because I learn best by doing something and then next reading. I’m not a good audio learner and for most books the plot is simple enough it doesn’t matter. One thing I always enjoy on the Malazan rereads is the amount of foreshadowing. In hindsight the true identity of Moby and “Servant” is obvious but went completely over my head on the initial read. Just got to the part where Stormy, Gesslef etc are trapped in the Nascent. Malazan veterans will know this scene will not make since until book five although parts of it are explained in book four. I actually had to look up on the Malazan wiki about heboric. I had completely forgotten what was going on with his Ghost hands and one being green the other orange (it’s a long complicated story). What a crazy, crazy series (in a good way). Pretty sure I could read only these books for the rest of my life and continue to pick up new things and understand things better.

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Hahahaha, yeah I wore out the back 30 seconds button on audible while listening up through Memories of Ice, normally I prefer to read the book first and then listen to the audiobook sometime later, but Lister's performance was just so good. After MoI I got the paperback for House of Chais and then from HoC on I got the complete Malazan book of the Fallen kindle collection. I'm pretty sure I snagged it when you made a post about it going on sale @Ammanas

The epigraph poems are much better in book form, some of those I had to listen to 10+ times to figure out what was going on. 

Ralph Lister's performances for the first 3 are still some of my favorite audio book narrations of all times. Michael Paige does a good job too, and his voice for Karsa is the voice I hear in my head when I read Kara's dialogue. 

Hopefully they will get Paige to narrate the witness trilogy, anyone have any idea when The God is Not Willing is slated to come out? 

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