Ammanas

Malazan

Favorite Malazan Book   9 members have voted

  1. 1. Favorite Malazan Book

    • GotM
      0
    • DG
      0
    • MoI
      2
    • HoC
      0
    • MT
      3
    • Bonehunters
      1
    • RG
      1
    • TtH
      2
    • DoD
      0
    • CG
      0
    • FoD
      0
    • FoL
      0
    • KoK
      0
    • RotCG
      0
    • Stonewielser
      0
    • OST
      0
    • BoB
      0
    • Assail
      0
    • Dancers Lament
      0
    • Deadhouse Landing
      0
    • Kellanved's Reach
      0

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724 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I ll answer the biggest question. 

That hasn’t happened yet in Return. That’s still in its future.

Return takes place between Reapers Gale(7) and Toll the Hounds(8).

Edited by Briar King
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Posted (edited)

Do we ever find out the backstory for Kyle's companions The Lost, Staulker, Coots, and Badlands?

Yes, but not in depth. They are all from the same place: Assail. I will let you read the books to figure out whats going on there

he death scene where Laseen was killed was bit anticlimatic, was the assassin that got her Vorcan's daughter? Also, is it ever explained why she was only be partially human (there's the mention of here puddling into something vaguely inhuman after she is shot back into her warren after she was killed)?

Yes it is Vorcans daughter and you will see her again in Orb, Sceptre, Throne. Dont remember anything about Laseen being inhuman. I will have to keep a eye out for that.

Was it explained (and I just missed it) why Topper was off his nut, and decided to wander the Imperial Warren as Ragman?

I thought he was hunting Cowl and was hoping that he would come that way. Perhaps he was hoping he would hear of the dissappearances and investigate

Does anyone else hear Superintendent Chalmers from the Simpsons when they read the name Skinner?

That was a first for me :)

Is it ever explained why Osseric was being manipulated/controlled by the magus of the Spire?

Cant remember, but I think the mage was more of a figurehead. Perhaps another fan could give a better answer.

And also, he jumped into Kyle's sword when the flash of lightning took out his arm right?

Yes

Also, who was the figure that came down to the top of the hill redoubt after Heuk had called down Kurald Galain (the one Nait saw standing over the curled up form of Heuk (seems to be implied that it's a Tiste Andii, but don't know who))?

Most people think Nait was mistaken and what he really saw was parts of Draconusses Soul emanating through Dragnipur, as foreboding his inevitable escape later on in Eriksons series.

Edited by Ammanas
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Thanks for the replies!

3 minutes ago, Ammanas said:

Was it explained (and I just missed it) why Topper was off his nut, and decided to wander the Imperial Warren as Ragman?

I thought he was hunting Cowl and was hoping that he would come that way. Perhaps he was hoping he would here of the dissappearances and investigate

Oh, no I meant that Vorcan's daughter was described as being only partly human

3 minutes ago, Ammanas said:

I thought he was hunting Cowl and was hoping that he would come that way. Perhaps he was hoping he would here of the dissappearances and investigate

Does anyone else hear Superintendent Chalmers from the Simpsons when they read the name Skinner?

Hmm, so why was Topper killing Claws then? Or were those supposed to be Veils? Or was he expecting the Crimson Guard to attempt to travel by Imperial warren? Also, he seemed to be completely crazy, there was the one scene where he killed what I took to be a claw that tried to escape using Meanas, and then he was saddened that he killed her, are we supposed to know who this was?

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@hoiditthroughthegrapevine I may have it all wrong, but perhaps Topper was thinking it was worth it to sacrifice a few pawns to capture lure in Cowl. Perhaps he didnt want to take a chance of people using the warren against the empire so he just killed everyone so that less and less would come; so there wouldn't be a chance of someone slipping through when he was engaged elsewhere. Perhaps someone has another answer.

Also regarding Vorcans daughter. Its kind of confusing, but evidently she is half demonic. It is kind of explained in Orb, but I will copy and paste what another fan said:

All of the T’orrud Cabal are demons, and were the servants of the Tyrant. The reason that they had worked to erase the Tyrant from history, and why they were instantly controlled by him as soon as he was released was because of this fact – while he was sealed, they could be free, but if he was released, they could not. In the well, there were a number of other sealed graves which were all broken from the inside – the number of graves matches that of the T’orrud Cabal. So it wasn’t just that they were powerful mages. Yes, going with this theory does make for some GotMisms, but the whole “what was the Tyrant in GotM when compared to the Tyrant in OST, and what explains the differences in their controlling ability” is a giant one already. Taya being half demon would mean that she has a human parent, while Vorcan is the demon half.

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Posted (edited)

All very interesting and edifying thanks @Ammanas.

Did you read the last 3 of the Bauchelain and Korbal Broach novellas by chance, and if you did what did you think of them?

I really like that series, but I know it's not for everybody. I like Erickson's gallows humor a lot, and it doesn't get much more gallows than the unrepentanly evil pairing of a Gentleman Necromancer and his psychotic serial killing eunuch friend, who also happens to be an insanely powerful necromancer. Throw in the affable but unlucky manservant and you have a bizarro universe version of Jeeves and Wooster. Also, he's not holding anything back with the over the top names in the B and KB novellas. Lamentable Moll, Emancipor Reese, Agin Again (the demoness of Lust), Stul Ophan, Ghust Hubb, Baby Saint, etc. It's like Johnathan Swift writing macabre fantasy, I think it's brilliant stuff.

Edited by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
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@hoiditthroughthegrapevine I have tried to read B and K, but it is the only malazan that I couldn't get into. One of the things I enjoy about malazan books is how it balances humor, horror, and action. The B and K (too me) is just too humor and feels off balanced. I'm glad you like them though :). Also if you like B and K you are in for a treat with Orb, Sceptre, Throne because they make a small appearance there. I believe you have the best three Esslemont books before you (of his original 6). Really enjoyed Stonewielder, Orb and Blood and Bone. 

If you like B and K novellas you would probably like his Willful Child books. From what I read of the beginning its the same type of humor except a little less dark.

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18 minutes ago, Ammanas said:

Also if you like B and K you are in for a treat with Orb, Sceptre, Throne because they make a small appearance there. I believe you have the best three Esslemont books before you (of his original 6). Really enjoyed Stonewielder, Orb and Blood and Bone.

Great, I am really excited to read these!

I loved B & KB's small parts in Gardens of the Moon and especially in Memories of Ice. The scene where Bauchelain is interrogating Quick Ben is one of my favorite parts in the whole Book of the Fallen. I got an electric blanket for christmas and there's nothing quite as nice as getting wrapped up in an electric blanket on a cold day with a book your dying to read. Good times ahead, my kindle progress bar shows that I have over 54 hrs of Novels of the Malazan Empire left!

5 minutes ago, Ammanas said:

If you like B and K novellas you would probably like his Willful Child books. From what I read of the beginning its the same type of humor except a little less dark.

I like Erickson's satire a lot, but he can get a little preachy at times. I generally agree with his politics, but a soap box rant (especially one you agree with) can get tiresome. The Willful Child series sounds like it could be incredibly funny or incredibly irritating, I might check those out when I am out of new Malazan to read. The one non-Malazan book of Erickson's that I am excited to try out is "Rejoice! A knife to the Heart", which has quite possibly the funniest title of any book ever.

Just talking about Malazan has gotten me excited enough about the Bauchelain and Korbral Broach books that I went ahead and ordered the 2nd batch of collected novellas. Willpower is overrated.

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Don't know for how long but you can get Dancers Lament for $2.99 kindle and if you buy that you can add audible for $7.50. 

Also just thought of something. Perhaps Topper started out watching the imperial warren but after living by himself for so long in that horrible place he went Colonel Kurtz on everyone. Just a thought.

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5 minutes ago, Ammanas said:

Don't know for how long but you can get Dancers Lament for $2.99 kindle and if you buy that you can add audible for $7.50. 

Also just thought of something. Perhaps Topper started out watching the imperial warren but after living by himself for so long in that horrible place he went Colonel Kurtz on everyone. Just a thought.

I mean I always kind of had the impression he wasn't exactly a full set of marbles in the first place. Also, best comparison ever.

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Posted (edited)

Onrack can you possibly depress me any more then you did for 3 straight pages?

goodness.

Edited by Briar King
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Posted (edited)

17 hours ago, Ammanas said:

Don't know for how long but you can get Dancers Lament for $2.99 kindle and if you buy that you can add audible for $7.50. 

Got the ebook, thanks Ammanas that's an amazing deal!

21 hours ago, Briar King said:

That hasn’t happened yet in Return. That’s still in its future.

Return takes place between Reapers Gale(7) and Toll the Hounds(8).

Thanks for the reply, I didn't notice this yesterday.
That's crazy though, I was just assuming that RotCG was after the Crippled God. Laseen didn't have much time after the Bonehunters withdrew from Malaz city, did she? Hmm, so that moment In Bonehunters when Laseen is trying to get Kalam to take out Mallick Rel really was her last chance to be rid of Mallick, right? Because of the two protectors that he had... Seems like taking out Vorcan's daughter would have been a better mission for Topper than wandering the imperial warren, oh well, it's just hard really hard to read "First year of the Rule of Emperor Mallick Rel 'The Merciful'" in Stonewielder. It was jokingly foreshadowed in RotCG, but man that sentence makes my eye twitch...

 

That's really funny about Onrack, the Eor of Malazan. But it's worth it when Trull sees him smile, right?

That's one of the very few things I could do without in the Malazan book of the Fallen series, that strange friendship/platonic romance that Trull and Onrack have. Really, Trull Sengar as a character I never really got, all build up and not much there, so maybe he's the perfect compliment to the most depressing Malazan character.

Edited by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
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Posted (edited)

@hoiditthroughthegrapevine If you, or anyone else, is confused about the timeline or how the books all fit it with one another perhaps this will help:

Edit- it doesn't include the new Esslemont trilogy, but its still helpful I think.

 

Reading_order_diagram.jpg

Edited by Ammanas
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Hahaha, after I read Briar King's response, I pulled that up. Don't know why I didn't think to look at it when I started the Novels of the Malazan Empire.

That reading order chart was actually the one grain of sand that tipped the balance and got me to try Malazan out, so thanks again Amannas for posting that. Like that grateful dead song, what a long strange trip it's been. Totally worth it.

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Oh rust... I forgot how utterly fantastic the Deck reading in DoD was...

Shame I ll be pausing most of my Malazan progress when I grab Safehold 10 tomorrow(I think it’s out then) but I ll still be reading a bit each day.

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19 hours ago, Briar King said:

Shame I ll be pausing most of my Malazan progress when I grab Safehold 10 tomorrow(I think it’s out then) but I ll still be reading a bit each day.

Just barely started Midst Toil and Tribulation and that Siddarmark civil war looks like it got really ugly incredibly fast. Thought of this Malazan quote as I was hearing the atrocities on both sides being unleashed, "Discipline is the greatest weapon against the self-righteous. We must measure the virtue of our own controlled response when answering the atrocities of fanatics. And yet, let it not be claimed, in our own oratory of piety, that we are without our own fanatics; for the self-righteous breed wherever tradition holds, and most often when there exists the perception that tradition is under assault. Fanatics can be created as easily in an environment of moral decay (whether real or imagined) as in an environment of legitimate inequity or under the banner of a common cause. Discipline is as much facing the enemy within as the enemy before you; for without critical judgment, the weapon you wield delivers- and let us not be coy here- naught but murder. And its first victim is the moral probity of your cause.”

Also, as a side note, can someone please curb stomp Zhaspahr Clyntahn? He is completely out of control and I get angry every time he opens his mouth.

The last book was tough to read regarding the concentration camps and the suicide bombers. The good guys got their nose bloodied pretty good.

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Yep bk 5 got into some dark juicy stuff. It was probably my fav next to bk 1. Your getting much more into the land stuff now. Personally I enjoyed the naval stuff over the land stuff.

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Tell me again, love, about the Tiste Edur with the spear. 

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In SW, I'm at the part where Bakune is being sprung from prison by the priest of Fener and his buddy Manask.

The part where Manask "dissappears" using his amazing thieving skills and the Ipshank uses the following analogy to describe his amazing disappearance, is one of the funniest scenes in Malazan (I thought).

"Like a fart in the wind".

Edited by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
mispelled Manask's name, jeez, that's a dumb mistake. It's literally Man ask.
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Lol, I'm rereading Memories of Ice and one of the epigraphs mentions the "Last Flight of Manask."  I'd like to learn more about that.

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Just finished Stonewielder, what a great book! Iron Bars! Iron Bars! Yeah yeah!

I agree with you @Briar King, the Ivanr parts are incredibly dull and are totally unnecessary. The taking of the city of Ring by the army of Reform was completely unimportant seeing as Gosh and Carfin of the Synod were the ones that made it so the Stormriders could take out the portion of the Lady in the undersea hold. I think that the whole Ivanr arc was an unsuccessful attempt to show that the struggle to end the Lady's reign was a widespread movement and to give context to Greymane's sacrifice. I think the Bakune arc (with the mysterious string of murders), the bloodless priests, the fanatic Stormguards, and especially the revelatory telepathic dialog that The Lady has with Lord Protector Hiam (about how he's failed her, and that the cult was set up to give her blood and to protect her from her ancient enemies and had nothing to do with protecting the land) did a much better job of explaining the significance of Greymane's heroic act. Also, Kyle continues to be disappointingly unremarkable. He's kind of like an average Joe with a good heart, a magic sword and a magic necklace. I can see his appeal from a Role-playing perspective as he's a suped up every man kind of guy, but he really doesn't have a lot going on character wise and even with his magic accoutrements he still gets tossed around like a rag doll (like the standoff with the Lady's priest on the bridge over the river Ancy, and even during his final confrontation in the cave temple). He seems kind of adrift, subject to the larger forces at play and content to just kind of go with the flow.

That's really all of the critical stuff, now on to why this book was so freaking amazing!

Greymane is an amazing character, so understated but so good. It was really fun to see his journey in this book, and I got chills when the treasure hunters saw his form down in the watery hole where the Ring was. So good. He obviously was carried there by the Stormriders, and the appellation of Guardian gives me some hope that maybe he is a player in the Stormriders house, and possibly we might see more of him in the upcoming Karsa Orlong books by Erickson (those take place after Crippled God, right?)

IRON BARS!!!!

Holy crap, he is quite possibly my favorite character in all of Malazan (which is filled with SO MANY amazing characters). Ever since his standoff with Ublala Pung against Seregahl in the grounds of the Azath in Letheras, he's been one of my favorites. The slow reveal over 3 books about what the Avowed are was amazing from a pacing standpoint, and one of my favorite scenes in any book was when Ussu was scrying using the power of the Vow, and he looked down with his hand on Iron Bars beating heart and Bars' eyes were buring with rage. HOLY CRAP, that is so awesome!

After the scene where Blues transports Bars and the other Avowed to the Skytower fortress and Bars charges Skinner as he's slipping into the Crippled God's warren to flee with last piece of the Lady I have officially firmed up my mental image of Skinner:

Kurgan_(Highlander).jpg

Victor Kurgan, from the original Highlander.

The Stormriders are just plain awesome! Esselmont really hit his stride in this book too (if you conveniently ignore the Ivanr arc). His descriptions have taken on more dimension, and he has turned into the master of establishing environment that I was hoping he would get to with RotCG. The Stormwall is awesome, really well described (I was glad to be reading this book under my electric blanket), and he is really good at setting scenes up with an economy of words. He's gotten much better at controlling atmosphere, and he's coming up with better characters too. Manask was awesome, Bakune was great, Ussu and Borun were great, Overlord Yuell was a well fleshed out incompetent tyrant (the detail with him always being cold was a really nice thematic detail too). I like a lot of the events that happened in RotCG, but I think SW is a better book and it makes me really excited to read Orb Scepter Throne, Blood and Bone, Assail and to start the Path to Ascendancy books.

 

I'm really excited too because I got the 2nd collection of Bauchelain and Korbol Broach novellas. They only sell the volume 2 collection in England, so it was a pretty long wait. Can't decide if I should read the B & K collection or Orb, Scepter Throne next.

Also, @Ammanas, I decided to get Glen Cook's The Black Company with my audible credit, I've only listened to about an hour of it so far, but it's really good! It's interesting what a direct line there is between the Black Company and the Bridgeburners, and really the tone of Erickson's Malazan is very similar to the tone of The Black Company (seems like this book is one of his primary influences). I've got a ton of work to do that I can do listening to my audiobook, so pip pip, full steam ahead.

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Karsa is set about 5 yrs after TCG yes.

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@hoiditthroughthegrapevineThink of Orb, Sceptre, Throne as a direct sequel to Toll the Hounds. That book has so much Segulah goodness in it. Let me know if this is a spoiler (and I will avoid such statements in the future) but I will try to be as vague as possible. While reading Orb, Sceptre, Throne there is a certain weapon at the end...keep thoughts of dragnipur in the back of your mind. I didn't make the connection right away, but once I did I really geeked out about it. I'm interested to see what you think about Blood and Bone. I loved the jungle setting and a lot of the viewpoints. I kind of feel like Esslemont dropped the ball on the ending and made it needlessly confusing. I actually had to look at the Tor malazan reread to understand it. 

Enjoy to Black Company! The narrator isn't my favorite but not bad. Whatever you do, if you get into the series, read Port of Shadows last. I liked it more than most seemed to, but even I have to admit it is definitely the weakest BC book. Its a bit of a oddball book too.

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8 minutes ago, Ammanas said:

Think of Orb, Sceptre, Throne as a direct sequel to Toll the Hounds.

Awesome! Toll of the Hounds is my favorite Malazan book! Guess Bauchelain and Korbal Broach will have to wait.

I like to know to be on the lookout for things, not a spoiler at all. I'm glad I stuck with the ICE books, I'm actually kind of curious what a reread of Night of Knives would be like now...For some future time. I'm definitely looking forward to the rest of the Novels of the Malazan Empire. I was so excited to hear about Ruthan Gudd in SW too. I actually went back and read the scene where he fights in his Stormrider armor, so good!

Thanks for the tip on the Black Company reading order, I just looked up the series on Wikipedia and saw that Port of Shadows was just written last year, I'll definitely take your advice on that one.

Edited by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
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@hoiditthroughthegrapevine Still working on Orb, Sceptre, Throne? 

I am probably going to jump back into malazan world this Sunday with a reread of Dancers Lament and Deadhouse Landing to help prepare for the new release on the 19th of this month.

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