Malazan

[Orlion Blight]

Well, I got most of my Malazan books out of storage! Perhaps I should read the three I have not yet read,  perhaps a re-read!

What's most likely, though, is I will build a book fort!

[officiumdefunctorum]

4 hours ago, TheOrlionThatComesBefore said:

Well, I got most of my Malazan books out of storage! Perhaps I should read the three I have not yet read,  perhaps a re-read!

What's most likely, though, is I will build a book fort!

I mean, with the Malazan saga, you won't need to supplement with too many other books to have enough for a fort. They're some hefty tomes.

[Ammanas]

Someone made a Malazan globe based on all the information we have. You have to click on the "there are pictures" comment a few down on the reddit page to see them all.

https://www.tor.com/2018/09/24/malazan-book-of-the-fallen-world-map-globe-fan/

[AngelEy3]

This is sweet! @Ammanas

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

On 9/23/2018 at 6:00 PM, officiumdefunctorum said:

What's everyone reading right now? Anybody still plugging along with Malazan or ICE?

Against my better judgement, I am keeping going with the ICE Novels of Malazan. I absolutely hated Night of Knives, but I am working on a series of technical illustrations where I can approach the zen like moment of cosmic non-thought (the much vaunted Ohmm), and I think that I can listen through Return of the Crimson Guard whilst in this state of near vacuum of thought.

I have been listening actually to a lot of Radio Open Source, a news/information/art show moderated by Christopher Lydon, who was the moderator of probably the best show ever to be on Public Radio, The Connection. Seriously good stuff, definitely biased towards the left end of the spectrum, but incredibly interesting. Also, just listened to the Radio Lab series "The Gonads", pretty freaking amazing, if you have something that you can do while listening to a podcast, you should check it out.

On 9/24/2018 at 3:39 PM, Ammanas said:

There are still a ton of things that annoy me about WoT but I am listening at a blistering 1.8 speed so I can get through the annoying stuff rather quickly.

Annoyances aside, it's a great series, but like officiumdecorum noted, it almost works better in Audiobook form. I convinced my brother to read it and he's been reading Book 5 for almost a full year and is thinking about giving up on the series.

There are incredibly painful moments that must be suffered through, but to be sure, the end destination is worth it. And, speaking of his worldbuilding, not very many authors can so succinctly describe a place as Robert Jordan and have it be so fully mentally realized by the reader. Steven Erickson can come close, Flaubert and Dostoevsky can do it maybe a little better, but in the fantasy genre he is nearly peerless in this singular ability. The never ending character refrains can get tiresome (braid tugging, lock smith puzzles, etc), but the world of WOT is very well imagined and the details are spectacular. The Foresaken are pretty awesome sub-villains too. 

Edited October 4, 2018 by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
Edited so I look less like an idiot...

[officiumdefunctorum]

I think I might be one of the only people in this thread that didn't have any issues with RotCG! I did let it sit for a long time before getting started with it, but I went straight through without wanting to give up. It wasn't amazing and I'm not sure I'll listen to it again, but I didn't hate it, haha.

Granted, I consume books and audiobooks at an alarming rate. I started  Stavely's Chronicles of the Unhewn Throne last Friday and I'll probably finish the trilogy by this Friday.

[Ammanas]

46 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

There are incredibly painful moments that must be suffered through, but to be sure, the end destination is worth it. And, speaking of his worldbuilding, not very many authors can so succinctly describe a place as Robert Jordan and have it be so fully mentally realized by the reader. Steven Erickson can come close, Flaubert and Dostoevsky can do it maybe a little better, but in the fantasy genre he is nearly peerless in this singular ability. The never ending character refrains can get tiresome (braid tugging, lock smith puzzles, etc), but the world of WOT is very well imagined and the details are spectacular. The Foresaken are pretty awesome sub-villains too. 

There are some incredible aspects to this series and moments. This series really needs some serious editing though to eliminate the problems you mentioned and some plot lines. Really I think the entire series, if done how I envision it, could be six books. Never marry your editor! Or if you do find a new editor! It has always been denied, but I think that part of the problem with this series goes with his wife allowing a lot of the fluff in the series to remain. I also think Tor milking this series was also a factor. Still, I feel this time I will finally finish this series. Currently halfway through Crown of Swords.

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

1 hour ago, Ammanas said:

This series really needs some serious editing though to eliminate the problems you mentioned and some plot lines. Really I think the entire series, if done how I envision it, could be six books. Never marry your editor! Or if you do find a new editor! It has always been denied, but I think that part of the problem with this series goes with his wife allowing a lot of the fluff in the series to remain. I also think Tor milking this series was also a factor. Still, I feel this time I will finally finish this series. Currently halfway through Crown of Swords.

Hahahaha, I had no idea that his wife was his editor. So funny.
I always thought the fluff was from him imagining what his putative female audience would like to read (like Gaylen Luca's well turned calves).

Crown of swords is a good book, you have a lot to still get through before BWS ties it all up in a satisfying conclusion. I do have to warn you Crossroads of Twilight is a particularly hard read. I think there are some parts of that book that helped Brandon develop his promise to the reader hypothesis, because there is a huge section of that book that is built up with extreme hyperbole that absolutely amounts to nothing.

I just found out that Amazon Prime is going to be putting out a WOT TV series, freaking awesome. Hopefully they get the casting right.

I know that I like to obsessively check for the most current news, here's a fansite which will probably have all of the pertinent details:

http://www.wheeloftime.tv/

[AngelEy3]

13 hours ago, officiumdefunctorum said:

I think I might be one of the only people in this thread that didn't have any issues with RotCG! I did let it sit for a long time before getting started with it, but I went straight through without wanting to give up. It wasn't amazing and I'm not sure I'll listen to it again, but I didn't hate it, haha.

Granted, I consume books and audiobooks at an alarming rate. I started  Stavely's Chronicles of the Unhewn Throne last Friday and I'll probably finish the trilogy by this Friday.

Me either! It's my favorite Ice novel if you don't count Path to Ascendancy.

What do you think of Unhewn Throne so far? 

[officiumdefunctorum]

6 hours ago, AngelEy3 said:

Me either! It's my favorite Ice novel if you don't count Path to Ascendancy.

What do you think of Unhewn Throne so far? 

Orb Sceptre Throne has to be my favorite, I'd say. Path to Ascendancy is... fun, I suppose. Interesting for sure and a good read, but it feels like candy.

As for unhewn throne, I'm digging it. It's compelling and dark in the right ways, and it has a good balance of predictable outcomes and unexpected turns. Excellent narration by Vance, and the characters are excellent.

ThoughI'd love it if there were at least one fantasy series where siblings both love each other and survive. The two seem to be mutually exclusive.

[Who Sharded?]

I finished the first Unhewn Throne book not too long ago and enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would.  It was mostly the writing an storytelling that did it for me.  The plot was nothing special, but Staveley made it enjoyable to read.

[Ammanas]

Every time I want to reread a malazan book I think about it being over 800 pgs and the commitment that takes. I balance that with the list of books I have never read before, along with some awesome books I have read over five years ago and deserve another reread. Also there are continuing series that need to have the previous book reread in order to prepare for the new release. *Sigh* The trials of a Malazan fan...the third full reread will happen one of these days! At the very least I will reread Deadhouse Landing to prepare for Kellaved's reach in the early part of 2019.

[officiumdefunctorum]

@Who Sharded? It got better! And weirder. I'm not sure I was enthused with the ending. Went out with kind of a whimper. Worth it for the story telling, though. 

ON A COMPLETELY UNRELATED NOTE I saw the new Aquaman getup a la Jason Momoa, and the top half instantly reminded me of Rhulad Sengar.

 

[Ammanas]

9 hours ago, officiumdefunctorum said:

Went out with kind of a whimper. Worth it for the story telling, though. 

I felt the same way about it. I know the author wants to do some spinoffs and I gave the first of these a try. I feel like the series has kind of run its course and I'm not really interested in other books set in that world. The trilogy was fun but its time to move on. I would love for the author to try a new series in a completely different fantasy world though.

[Briar King]

Reallllly enjoying Stonewielder. Only on pg 195. Snails pace and getting even slower as I’m putting Outlander 4 on the top burner so I have a slim chance of being done with it(only 931 pgs left to go...) by season end of the show.

i do think I have possibly had to flip to the map in these 200 pgs more times then 7C & Lether maps (book long I mean). It’s all over the place. It’s pretty nuts. Love Korel so much.

[officiumdefunctorum]

1 hour ago, Briar King said:

Reallllly enjoying Stonewielder. Only on pg 195. Snails pace and getting even slower as I’m putting Outlander 4 on the top burner so I have a slim chance of being done with it(only 931 pgs left to go...) by season end of the show.

i do think I have possibly had to flip to the map in these 200 pgs more times then 7C & Lether maps (book long I mean). It’s all over the place. It’s pretty nuts. Love Korel so much.

The ICE books really did pick up after return, I think. He writes characters well.

Honest opinion of Outlander: do you think I'd like it? I find anything with heavy hetero-romance these days to be eminently tedious unless the plotty bits are worth it.

[Briar King]

I ll tell you honestly so far having read bks 1-3 I find that it was a mistake to push it as I Romance genre novel. Is that present? Absolutely. The pleasure so far has been finding it much more fantasy/historical fiction though with some of the most stomach churning trails for some of the characters. Very dark at times. I never would have read this if not for the utterly outstanding show on STARZ because of the Romance mislabel. I bought bk 1 after the mid season 1 break and have managed to keep ahead of the show by the time the 2nd half came back on so far. I have heard the later books suffer some. Some of them put Stormlight to shame pg count wise(bks 5&6 clock in at 1443&1483 pgs... yeah so that ought to take me quite awhile to do sigh).

i would absolutely recommend trying bk 1/S1 of show out yes. Bk 2 had outstanding political stuff. Bk 3 was amazing in the end. The Romance thing still baffles me and imo kept a lot of people from getting into it like myself. The show REALLY opened people up.

[officiumdefunctorum]

@Briar King Thanks for your assessment!

[Briar King]

Let me know if/when you get it. If you do I’m sure it will be audio? If you do deadtree I would recommend getting the trade paperbacks due to the sheer size of some of these. I’m a stickler for keeping my books looking as new as the day I bought it minus my finger oil marks but bk 3 developed a crease in spine at the end and I was pissed off. I got 1-6 in regular PB so to late for me. I’m sure bks 4-6 will be the same as they put bk 3 to shame in size. So big they hurt my hands.

[Who Sharded?]

On 10/7/2018 at 8:04 AM, Ammanas said:

I felt the same way about it. I know the author wants to do some spinoffs and I gave the first of these a try. I feel like the series has kind of run its course and I'm not really interested in other books set in that world. The trilogy was fun but its time to move on. I would love for the author to try a new series in a completely different fantasy world though.

For what it's worth Skullsworn has much better reviews than the Unhewn Throne trilogy got.

[AngelEy3]

How many Malazans does an Aran weigh? 

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

After Erickson, I just don't know if I can do ICE. He's just so clumsy with language. I am about 1/16th of the way into Return of the Crimson Guard, but I don't know how far my love of the Book of the Fallen can take me.

My problem with Esselmont is that he tries to write beyond his capacity, and oddly this is the thing that also gives me hope. When he's not trying to use a standard malazan word that he doesn't really understand (like actinic), and he kind of forgets that he is writing, he manages to give up some interesting information about important Malazan characters or important Malazan world building details, in a way that flows quite naturally.

So my question is, does he ever give up on trying to be something that he's not? He's not a jaded intellectual (like Erickson) with a poetic turn of phrase. Does he ever find his own voice and write simple, straight forward unassuming prose?

Night of Knives is the work of imaginative fiction that I enjoyed least though I completed it, White Sand Volume 2 is a pretty close second, but I really at this point think I would rather read an extensive plot summary than read another Esselmont book.

The part in RoTCG where Kyle surges forth to protect the magus was horrible. What's his motivation? Why is he doing this? Why is he more worried about this supposed spirit of his people than the hand he just lost? This all make no sense, but yet I feel the subtle hook of the narrative that his sword just a new powerup, but I'm also wary that this will ultimately mean nothing. I'm also interested (against my better judgement) in RoTCG because Greymane is in it, but this also feels kind of like the quarter you trade in for a token at the arcade, in that you give up something of value (your time) for something that can never be redeemed (revelation).

I want to thank you all for talking me through finishing The Crippled God (which was beyond awesome), so I guess I am just looking for some specific reassurance that the journey through the ICE Novels of the Malazan empire has at the end a worthy destination.

[Ammanas]

@hoiditthroughthegrapevine Perhaps Esslemont just isn't for you or perhaps *puts on white coat and stethoscope*  you are suffering acutely from Malazan burnout. I recommend taking a break from Malazan for awhile and read something different. Perhaps something lighter or from a completely different genre. Also sometimes I will revisit a book that wasn't working for me at first and after time has passed and a couple of tries I end up really liking it.

Another route to go is completely scrapping his original six books and diving into his prequel books. Dancers Lament has the simple prose you are looking for and writes in a way that best fits the authors talents. I know people are probably sick of me saying it on this page, but Dancers Lament and its sequel feels like it was written by the "third" malazan author. The prose is completely different.

[Briar King]

And just note that if you pass on Return you ll be missing out on one of the best climaxes of the shared world of these 2.

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

1 hour ago, Briar King said:

And just note that if you pass on Return you ll be missing out on one of the best climaxes of the shared world of these 2.

This is exactly what I needed to hear, thanks Briar King.

Giving it another go...

Thanks for the advice too, at @Ammanas, I don't really think it's a case of Malazan fatigue though, if I do end up throwing in the towel, it will be after RotCG, and it will only be Esselmont. I love Bauchelain and Korbal Broach, sadly no audio book for that, but it's fun to see Jeeves and Wooster as amoral necromancers, pretty dark, but funny stuff.