everstorm End the Everstorm

[CaptainRyan]

Hi team,

Two part thought today:
1. How, if ever, will the Everstorm be stopped? Or will it be a new feature of Roshar that persists? If/when Odium is defeated/leaves, will the Everstorm remain?

2. Does the Everstorm just straight up wreck Shinovar? They have been protected from Highstorms thanks to their big mountains in the east and the fact that Highstorms weaken but their western mountains are less imposing and, as far as I can tell, the Everstorm has a more constant level of power.

Thoughts? WoBs? Remember, we are not in the Oathbringer sub-forum so please do not use anything from there.

 

[Vortaan]

I mean "constant level of power" Is kind of a stretch. We don't know what the conditions of a fresh Everstorm hitting Shinovar might be. It might be similar to a highstorm making landfall in the stormlands... in which case yeah, Shinovar is in trouble.

[thejopen27]

I think Shinovar is protected by more than just it's mountains. But I think it will do unusually high damage. Also I know the Everstorm is less powerful than a Highstorm, but how much less? A hurricane instead of one giant rapidly moving front, It seems to be more chaotic and have much more lightening, plus there's the Parshmen awakening. I would also be surprised if there were Parshmen in Shinovar. 

 

I have not read any of Oathbringer yet.

Edited October 28, 2017 by thejopen27

[Yata]

6 hours ago, thejopen27 said:

I think Shinovar is protected by more than just it's mountains. But I think it will do unusually high damage. Also I know the Everstorm is less powerful than a Highstorm, but how much less? A hurricane instead of one giant rapidly moving front, It seems to be more chaotic and have much more lightening, plus there's the Parshmen awakening. I would also be surprised if there were Parshmen in Shinovar. 

 

I have not read any of Oathbringer yet.

Why is the Everstorm less powerful than a Highstorm?

[CaptainRyan]

7 hours ago, Vortaan said:

I mean "constant level of power" Is kind of a stretch.

What I meant was that the Everstorm doesn't seem to weaken as it crosses the continent like a Highstorm does. Or, maybe even if it did, that means it is freshest when it hits Shinovar. 

7 hours ago, thejopen27 said:

I think Shinovar is protected by more than just it's mountains.

Out of curiosity, what sort of protection do you think Shinovar has?

7 hours ago, thejopen27 said:

Also I know the Everstorm is less powerful than a Highstorm, but how much less? A hurricane instead of one giant rapidly moving front, It seems to be more chaotic and have much more lightening. 

I'm was not aware that the Everstorm is less fierce than a Highstorm. What makes you say that?

[Vortaan]

11 hours ago, CaptainRyan said:

What I meant was that the Everstorm doesn't seem to weaken as it crosses the continent like a Highstorm does. Or, maybe even if it did, that means it is freshest when it hits Shinovar. 

Again though, that seems like a stretch. If Everstorms blow the wrong way, it should have gone out to sea after the Shattered Plains, then hit Shinovar at full force. Basically we've never seen an Everstorm at the lower end of it's passage. I'd be really curious if the Purelake gets weaker Everstorms as well as weaker highstorms. I suspect that Shinovar and the Purelake are going to have to experience massive cultural shifts in the near future.

[thejopen27]

On 10/28/2017 at 2:11 AM, CaptainRyan said:

Out of curiosity, what sort of protection do you think Shinovar has?

I'm was not aware that the Everstorm is less fierce than a Highstorm. What makes you say that?

 

On 10/28/2017 at 1:36 AM, Yata said:

Why is the Everstorm less powerful than a Highstorm?

I think Shinovar is magically protected somehow by Cultivation. I don't have proof, it is more a hypothesis. 

I don't know if the Everstorm has less total energy than a Highstorm, but someone says that it will move slower than a highstorm. I don't remember who, it may have been from Edgedancer. So maybe it has the same total energy, but it will hit without a massive stormwall. 

[Yata]

8 hours ago, thejopen27 said:

 

I don't know if the Everstorm has less total energy than a Highstorm, but someone says that it will move slower than a highstorm. I don't remember who, it may have been from Edgedancer. So maybe it has the same total energy, but it will hit without a massive stormwall. 

The Stormfather at the end of WoR.

But It's speed isn't indicative of Its power

[thejopen27]

On 10/29/2017 at 11:52 PM, Yata said:

The Stormfather at the end of WoR.

But It's speed isn't indicative of Its power

But it has no stormeall, which is the part that the Laits and mountains protect against. 

[Yata]

17 minutes ago, thejopen27 said:

But it has no stormeall, which is the part that the Laits and mountains protect against. 

The presence of not of a Stormwall isn't a proof of Its strenght. The Everstorm is simply composed/distribuite differently.

A Highstorm keeps his Stormwall for all' his journey and we know the Storm loses Power while he Travel.

Unless you are proposing that the Everstorm is weaker than the Highstorm in his weakest moment...the Stormwall can't be' a proof of Strenght.

[anna]

Even if the Everstorm has less energy, it can still do more damage since it's moving the other way.  I think Kaladin pointed out at the end of WoR that buildings on Roshar are stronger on one side to protect against Highstorms, and they won't be ready for a storm from the other direction.

[Yata]

Just now, anna said:

Even if the Everstorm has less energy, it can still do more damage since it's moving the other way.  I think Kaladin pointed out at the end of WoR that buildings on Roshar are stronger on one side to protect against Highstorms, and they won't be ready for a storm from the other direction.

Yeah this is sure, I just wanted to point on the fact that the absence of a Stormwall doesn't imply less energy.

[thejopen27]

4 hours ago, Yata said:

Yeah this is sure, I just wanted to point on the fact that the absence of a Stormwall doesn't imply less energy.

I’m not arguing there is less energy, I admit that I misspoke earlier. But the direction of the buildings, and the laits, and walls is to protect against the Stormwall. When Lift and Nale stand on the rooftop in the Everstorm in Yeddaw, a city that needs to be protected from Hightorms, they are wind blown and wet, and violent lightening is crashing all Around them, but the aren’t holding on for their life or tossed in the air like Kaladin does in WoK. 

[Yata]

2 hours ago, thejopen27 said:

I’m not arguing there is less energy, I admit that I misspoke earlier. But the direction of the buildings, and the laits, and walls is to protect against the Stormwall. When Lift and Nale stand on the rooftop in the Everstorm in Yeddaw, a city that needs to be protected from Hightorms, they are wind blown and wet, and violent lightening is crashing all Around them, but the aren’t holding on for their life or tossed in the air like Kaladin does in WoK. 

Because that happens only when a Highstorm collides with the Everstorm. Those are not the standard results of an Hightstorm or Everstorm, but the compounding effect the two storms together generate in the location of their meeting

Edited October 31, 2017 by Yata

[CaptainRyan]

2 hours ago, thejopen27 said:

When Lift and Nale stand on the rooftop in the Everstorm in Yeddaw, a city that needs to be protected from Hightorms, they are wind blown and wet, and violent lightening is crashing all Around them, but the aren’t holding on for their life or tossed in the air like Kaladin does in WoK

Yeddaw is, I believe, built into trenches that have some sort of unique drainage system. From the Coppermind: "Yeddaw's shape and appearance is very unusual because it is composed of hundreds of trenches cut into the ground by hired Shardblades." Nale and Lift were not experiencing the direct fury of the Everstorm in the same way Kaladin was experiencing the direct fury of the Highstorm; remember, Kaladin was on a rooftop on an exposed plateau, not in a trench.

With so much attention being paid to the Everstorm's strength, supposed lack of a stormwall, and speed/staying power I am seriously considering getting a couple of WoBs at the signing on the 14th to try and put some of this to rest. I worry we are over-extrapolating from the text and going down weird theory paths built on faulty assumptions.

[thejopen27]

On 10/31/2017 at 11:57 AM, Yata said:

Because that happens only when a Highstorm collides with the Everstorm. Those are not the standard results of an Hightstorm or Everstorm, but the compounding effect the two storms together generate in the location of their meeting

No, In Way of Kings, in a regular High Storm, Kaladin is tied to a building facing the Stormwall. He is thrown into the air by the force of the wind and at one point is being blown around like a kite.

 

On 10/31/2017 at 1:55 PM, CaptainRyan said:

Yeddaw is, I believe, built into trenches that have some sort of unique drainage system. From the Coppermind: "Yeddaw's shape and appearance is very unusual because it is composed of hundreds of trenches cut into the ground by hired Shardblades." Nale and Lift were not experiencing the direct fury of the Everstorm in the same way Kaladin was experiencing the direct fury of the Highstorm; remember, Kaladin was on a rooftop on an exposed plateau, not in a trench.

With so much attention being paid to the Everstorm's strength, supposed lack of a stormwall, and speed/staying power I am seriously considering getting a couple of WoBs at the signing on the 14th to try and put some of this to rest. I worry we are over-extrapolating from the text and going down weird theory paths built on faulty assumptions.

I'm not saying the Everstorm isn't dangerous, just that I don't think it will completely destroy the Western cities. I think the bigger threat will be the awakening Listeners.

[Gigalemesh]

Worth noting that lift and male were on top of a building so as I understand it they wouldn't have been protected at all, so it does seem like the winds are less intense, however it could be that the middle of the everstorm is most chaotic part and they hadn't reached there yet

[Yata]

3 hours ago, Gigalemesh said:

Worth noting that lift and male were on top of a building so as I understand it they wouldn't have been protected at all, so it does seem like the winds are less intense, however it could be that the middle of the everstorm is most chaotic part and they hadn't reached there yet

Yeddaw is a weird city, they could be on top of a building and still be under "underground"...of course this isn't sure as we don't know how tall the building was but it's a possibility

[thejopen27]

Aren't the rooftops in Yeddaw all at ground level?

[Yata]

On 3/11/2017 at 1:33 AM, thejopen27 said:

Aren't the rooftops in Yeddaw all at ground level?

I don't know if ALL of them are at ground level

[CaptainRyan]

On 11/2/2017 at 5:33 PM, thejopen27 said:

Aren't the rooftops in Yeddaw all at ground level?

I do not think this is accurate. Is there a quote that leads you to believe this?

[thejopen27]

3 hours ago, CaptainRyan said:

I do not think this is accurate. Is there a quote that leads you to believe this?

Yeddaw doesn't have buildings, it has Rooms carved into the plateaus that make up the city. It's an artificial shattered plain where the plateaus are the buildings and the chasms are the streets. When Lift and Nalan are on the roof at the end of the book, they are fully exposed to the storm, on an open plain. 

 

The only building that is different is the Grand Indicium in the center. Which is a smooth mound. 

Edited November 6, 2017 by thejopen27

[CaptainRyan]

1 hour ago, thejopen27 said:

Yeddaw doesn't have buildings, it has Rooms carved into the plateaus that make up the city. It's an artificial shattered plain where the plateaus are the buildings and the chasms are the streets. When Lift and Nalan are on the roof at the end of the book, they are fully exposed to the storm, on an open plain. 

 

The only building that is different is the Grand Indicium in the center. Which is a smooth mound. 

Good call. I just started my pre-Oathbringer reread and the picture of Yeddaw matches your description. 

Oneinteresting thing is that the top of each "plateau" is a field for growing food. I'll put extra effort into parsing the scene with Nale son God and Lift to see if where they end up matches. 

[Pattern]

The stormwall of the Highstorms is a shockwave, making the Highstorms much more destructive than a storm without one. Most of it's energy will be concentrated in the front of the shockwave. Comparing the wind strengths of a Highstorm after the shockwave and the wind strenght of the Everstorm in Yeddaw at least leaves the impression that the Everstorm is weaker and has less total energy than a Highstorm. It has less internal wind velocities. (Kaladin is thrown around in the Highstorm after the shockwave has passed, the Everstorm has not even been summoned at this point of time, while Lift and Nale stand on a roof more or less comfortably when the Everstorm hits).

The Everstorm has two factors making it as destructive as the Highstorms, though. First is the slow speed. A slow moving storm has more time on a given place to cause destruction and leave rainfalls. Even slower gusts of wind compared to a Highstorm can do a lot of damage this way. Second of course is the wrong direction. All laits and buildings only protect from stroms blowing westward. Wind blowing from the west will find profiles optimized for maximum destruction.

What we don't know is the exact form of the Everstorm. Is it a hurricane, an outertropical cyclone or something else entirely?