Ryder Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 I was looking at all the herald's chapter arch pictures (is there a name for those things?) on the Ten Essences page the other day, and I managed to convince myself that Pailiah is, or used to be bald. Here they all are, spoilered for space: Spoiler Pailiah, conveniently, is at the 12 o'clock position on the wheel. I always assumed that the lines radiating outward from her head were just a representation of her hair, but I no longer think that's the case. Looking at every other herald, there's a pretty clear distinction between the background pattern in each section and the head/hair/hood/etc of the herald. With access to the illumination surge she could appear however she wanted, but maybe she wanted to be bald most of the time? With her divine attributes being learned and giving, it wouldn't surprise me if she's considered a patron of the ardents as a whole along with Ishar. Maybe that's where the tradition of ardents always having a shaved head comes from? This is probably nothing and is really minor even if it is correct, but I'd be curious to know what anyone else thinks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wreith Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 32 minutes ago, Ryder said: I was looking at all the herald's chapter arch pictures (is there a name for those things?) on the Ten Essences page the other day, and I managed to convince myself that Pailiah is, or used to be bald. Here they all are, spoilered for space: Hide contents Pailiah, conveniently, is at the 12 o'clock position on the wheel. I always assumed that the lines radiating outward from her head were just a representation of her hair, but I no longer think that's the case. Looking at every other herald, there's a pretty clear distinction between the background pattern in each section and the head/hair/hood/etc of the herald. With access to the illumination surge she could appear however she wanted, but maybe she wanted to be bald most of the time? With her divine attributes being learned and giving, it wouldn't surprise me if she's considered a patron of the ardents as a whole along with Ishar. Maybe that's where the tradition of ardents always having a shaved head comes from? This is probably nothing and is really minor even if it is correct, but I'd be curious to know what anyone else thinks! Based on her appearance in WoK (not sure if actually confirmed or just commonly accepted), I have no problem accepting this theory Quote It turned out to be just an old, berobed female ardent, shuffling with a lantern and followed by a parshman servent... Lit that way--with her figure hidden but the light streaming between the shelves--it looked as if one of the Heralds themselves were walking through the stacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryder Posted October 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Just now, Wreith said: Based on her appearance in WoK (not sure if actually confirmed or just commonly accepted), I have no problem accepting this theory I remembered that Pailiah was the person Shallan noticed down in the Palaneum in WoK, but I'd forgotten that the person was an ardent! And I believe there's a WoB confirming that somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dysphoric Kitten Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Given that she can Illuminate, I'd say she has a shaven head to facilitate more disguise options. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvisual Haze Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 I wonder if she was already old when she became a Herald. Several of the other Heralds seem to not age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 On 25/10/2017 at 2:46 AM, Dysphoric Kitten said: Given that she can Illuminate, I'd say she has a shaven head to facilitate more disguise options. In the current times She could not use the Surges, but for the ancient times it is possible, also if I see mainly as useless for the Illumination Surge's work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dysphoric Kitten Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 Well, when she did have Illumination, not having hair meant not having to hide it when being disguised as male, or short-haired, or possessing hair of a radically different texture. As of now, she may still be bald, and if she lacks Illumination, it might just be because she is used to it or that it became part of her identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryder Posted October 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 I suspect Pali may have just kept it shaved because that's what she's used to. Either that or it's just short now so she can impersonate an ardent. I do wonder about Shallash though, back when she could surgebind. Shallash has long black hair now, but her chapter arch portrait shows her with hair as well. I agree with Dysphoric Kitten that having a shaved head would make it much easier to use illumination to change hair styles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 She looks bald to you? To me it seems her hair is as of blown by a breeze and is all around her. Otherwise the top of her ears looks strangely cut off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryder Posted October 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 43 minutes ago, Aleksiel said: She looks bald to you? To me it seems her hair is as of blown by a breeze and is all around her. Otherwise the top of her ears looks strangely cut off. I always thought the same thing as you, just hair being blown back. The only reason I changed my mind to think she's bald is because for all the other heralds, there is clearly a background pattern that's distinct; while this isn't the case for Pailiah. I do agree that her ears look a little funny if that's the case though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 49 minutes ago, Ryder said: I always thought the same thing as you, just hair being blown back. The only reason I changed my mind to think she's bald is because for all the other heralds, there is clearly a background pattern that's distinct; while this isn't the case for Pailiah. I do agree that her ears look a little funny if that's the case though. I think her hair was stylized to mirror a background like the other heralds have. Battar's hair has the same manner of drawing and it makes it look almost like a hood decorated with a ribbon. Kalak's hair is also drawn as locks, so I think it's just the style of the paintings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorkel Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Is there a significance to which heralds are at the top of each chapter? I couldn't figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kered Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Snorkel said: Is there a significance to which heralds are at the top of each chapter? I couldn't figure it out. There's these two WoB's and a WoP. Quote Questioner The arches in The Way of Kings and Words of Radiance. The faces in the arches, are they dependent on something that happens in the chapter, or are they random or is there a pattern? Brandon Sanderson They do, but Isaac picks them, not me. So. There is a rubric for it, but-- so there is some significance, but Isaac is behind that. Quote Questioner You do the [Stormlight Archive chapter header] arches too right? Isaac Stewart I did do the arches as well, yeah. Questioner Is there like a pattern <though>? 'Cause I'm trying to find a consistent one. Like certain characters or... Isaac Stewart You know, the pattern to those is... Peter reads the chapter and then he decides which faces to put on the chapter heading. Questioner So it isn't just like whose point of view it's from it could be... Isaac Stewart It can be-- It can be more thematic. I'm not sure of all of the things that Peter takes into consideration. That would be a good question to ask him sometime. Quote Lurcher Here are the lists of things that I've noticed could be reasons why certain Herald images get chosen. I also picked up on alot of this stuff because the folks over at Tor have done a WoR re-read and have a dedicated "Heraldic Symbolism" subsection they devote for each chapter. They speculate as to why the specific herald(s) were chosen. Specifically Alice Arneson (one of the re-readers) has seemingly done some good research into this, so I'll give her credit for a lot of this. I mostly listed these out for my own reference as I've been meaning to do so (since I usually keep them in my head when figuring this out when reading). Herald themselves (mentioned, talked about, or actually has an appearance) Some object associated with a herald (example: A specific herald's honorblade) Member of Order (ex: Kaladin=Windrunners=Jezrien) Characters portraying divine attribute behavior (example: Loving and Healing) Characters portraying the inverse of divine attribute behavior (example: Hating and Destroying) Herald of <concept> - things associated with that concept. Known examples: 1) Shalash: Herald of Beauty 2) Nalan: Herald of Justice 3) Jezrien: Herald of Kings 4) Taln: Herald of War 5) Ishar: Herald of Luck Roles associated with a herald Known Examples: 1)Chana: Guards 2)Taln: Soldiers/war 3)Ishar: Ardents/religion 4)Vedel: Physicians Essences (https://coppermind.net/wiki/Ten_Essences ): Essence, body focus, soulcasting properties...(this one is a stretch as I've never really could pinpoint this well enough) Jester/Masked face (as mentioned in other posts on this thread). This can be tied to chapters with Wit them or tied to concepts related to him, the biggest one (I think) being storytelling. How'd I do? Note: I loved the "Four Lifetimes" chapter's heraldic symbolism in Oathbringer (I'm a little over halfway through the book), but I thought that was great showing the different roles/lives Kaladin has filled: Surgeon (Vedel), Soldier (Taln), Guard (Chana), and Leader/Windrunner (Jezrien). Bravo. Peter Ahlstrom How did you do? Pretty much a home run. There's only one thing you're missing, which you may have implied, and that's the gemstones. Also, there's a little bit more to #5 that will be explored further later in the series. Your "Four Lifetimes" analysis is spot-on. Congratulations. Basically, there's a number of reasons that goes into choosing the "chapter arches". Edited January 16, 2018 by Kered 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorkel Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 Thanks for that awesome answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobbzn Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 So this is probably unrelated, but didn't Kandra have some issues with hair? If they could not grow it naturally, a long-term bald disguise would work well, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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