[OB] Oathbringer chapters 25-27

[mariapapadia]

8 hours ago, Aon Ene said:

Did anyone else think about Warbreaker when the white-haired girl was mentioned in Shallan's story?

YES!!! For me it was the red scarf the girl was wearing that made me think of Vasher's scarf. I doubt there is a connection, but it was a nice addition that I don't think was totaly unintentional. 

6 hours ago, Aleksiel said:

Does anyone else think the epigraphs are useless? Even when we find out who the author is, they won't give us much information. I'm actually disappointed, in-world OB so far seems pointless.

Haha! I had the same feeling a couple of weeks ago, but since last week I am convincing myself Dalinar is the author.

6 hours ago, Jigar said:

Could the Oathbringer be written by Evi?

 

She is believed to be dead and she is a heretic.

 

The reason why I don't think it's Evi, is because I sumbled on a thread talking about fake deaths in Sanderson's work and some critiques about his overusage of them. He replied to that on a Reddit post stating that although he'll use some more fake deaths in the future, there isn't anything planned out for the near future.. So, even if we don't know much about Evi or the circumstances of her death(or non death) so far, I don't think he'll pull another fake one so close to WoR. 

5 hours ago, Cowmanthethird said:

Shallan's story is giving me some really strong dejavu vibes, and I don't know why. I feel like I've heard it before though. Like... It's really bothering me.

YESSSS! I have the same feeling, but I can't put my finger on it why. UGHHH! It's frustrating! 

3 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I was actually really happy Adolin finally told Shallan the truth of who killed Helaran, and have no clue why people on 17th shard are unhappy about it. Sorry, but lies are not healthy, not to yourself, and not among friends. The sooner the truth comes out, the sooner the wound can be dealt with. Otherwise a lie keeps building up and up, to the point where it explodes and hurts people unecesarily. When if you deal with it early enough it causes some pain, but not crippling pain. Finally, much better the truth came from someone Shallan trusts (Adolin) and that didn't mean any harm than someone out to make trouble and divide (Amaram or T). All in all, the truth was necesary, and better sooner than later. 

I don't think Adolin did anything bad in telling Shallan, because it's obvious he wasn't doing it with malicious intentions, but it irks me a bit that he didn't thought of letting Kaladin tell her that personally. Actually, the whole passage read a bit odd for me, because even though the implications were clear for Shallan, for a second I got the impression Adolin didn't made the connection that Kaladin actually killed her brother. Maybe that's why he spilled the beans. Anyway. 

3 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Does anyone else think Dalinar's solution would be for Ialai herself to become highprince? Would have been better than Amaram, and Ialai would have liked it. Alas, Ialai is too far into hatred to even listen. 

Yes! I was thinking the same thing! It would have been interesting, but I guess we'll have enough frustrating moments with Amaram as highprince, as we would've had with Ialai. 

 

So...Is everyone happy with how this week's chapters progressed ? I got a new wave of excitement for the book (if that is even possible at this point). I think Shallan's first chapter was one of my favourites so far. 

I like Evi, she seems kind and it bothers me that so many are treating her as weak of mind or plain. I really hope to see her and Dalinar bonding and growing into some sort of love/partnership after this episode he had. I actually like to think that she helped him become a better man and he grew to love her. I find the young Dalinar more interesting/ entertaining than the present one. I don't have anything against the present one and I wouldn't consider him boring, but from the begining of SA, he didn't spark my interest as other characters did. Sometimes his chapters would be quite a stuggle for me, so I was a bit worried that I wouldn't enjoy OB that much, but so far it's been great ! I actually think he wasn't present as much others in this first part. I have the feeling that Shallan has been leading the start of the book. 

Speaking of Shallan... OK! I will admit, that I actually enjoyed her slipping in and out of Veil and Radiant these chapters, it was interesting to read. But since she's pulling a Ginny Weasly now, not remembering stuff and having blanks , can we all admit that she's not on her way to recovery or getting better ?! Supressing another truth, gives me the impression that she still doesn't want to deal with her problems. 

Since she was hinting towards giving Amaram the benefit of the doubt, because she didn't know all the details, I wonder if she will be willing to do the same with Kaladin. I don't think it will be that easy, because I think she cares about him more than she does about Amaram and she will figure out that he knew he killed her brother and didn't tell her. Which means he lied to her and would hurt more coming from him. 

 

Spoiler

oh!! I didn't follow the copycat theories so far, I've seen something about the Unmade here and there, but did anyone else got the feeling like the creature responsible for the double deaths, is trying to do something similar with what Preservation did in Mistborn with the Atium mistings? Most likely this is stupid and I am trying to find a connection where there is none. 

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by mariapapadia

[DSC01]

So, Shallan seems to think that the dark presence in Uritiru is one of the Unmade (well, she hasn't said that, exactly, but her beliefs about what it is definitely sound like something we would guess to be one of the Unmade). I can't be the only one thinking Dysian Aimian, though. Oh, sure--Pattern thinks that it's something of Odium, but he's not omniscient. Besides, Aimians may well only be able to exist via a spren bond, and they could in fact be Odiumspren (or this one is, at least).

This ties into an idea I got a few weeks ago, as soon as we found out that the copycat killer was just replicating murders in general (and, we now realize, all types of violence), not Sadeas's murder, specifically.I can't remember whether I posted about it or not at the time. I thought that our culprit might be an Aimian; although, I didn't really have any kind of evidence for it. It just seemed to feel right, in part because of Arclo's presence in Edgedancer.

After all, why introduce a previously unknown race in a side novella? Sure, for Sharders, it's required reading, but the masses of readers who put Stormlight on the bestsellers lists every time a volume is released aren't as obsessive as we, by and large. But if you're going to introduce a race of rather monstrous-seeming creatures (I mean, they're made out of bugs) and don't want them to be generic, orc-type evil beasts, it's a good idea to introduce them by way of a friendly member of that race, even if a crazed serial killer is the individual the main plot most concerns itself with.

Think about it: a creepy, made-out-of-bugs creature, sneaking through unexplored, dark corridors, reenacting violent crimes--that's a good villain. But if that's the first your readers know that such a race even exists, then you're immediately casting them as evil.

[The Invested Beard]

2 minutes ago, mariapapadia said:

The reason why I don't think it's Evi, is because I sumbled on a thread talking about fake deaths in Sanderson's work and some critiques about his overusage of them. He replied to that on a Reddit post stating that although he'll use some more fake deaths in the future, there isn't anything planning out for the near future.. So, even if we don't know much about Evi or the circumstances of her death(or non death) so far, I don't think he'll pull another fake one so close to WoR. 

 

That's just what someone who's planning a surprise fake death reveal in the near future would say.

 

I'm mostly kidding.

[Aleksiel]

3 minutes ago, mariapapadia said:

YESSSS! I have the same feeling, but I can't put my finger on it why. UGHHH! It's frustrating! 

Could it be due to similarities with the one Kaladin told to Hoid? As if Fleet and the white haired girl were on the opposite sites of the wall/mountain where the storms die. It made me wonder if it could be related to Culltivation somehow.

[Harbour]

Oh, and i forgot to mention.

Reading about Shallans feelign about Urithiru, i got a thought "Dayuuuum, Urithiru gotta be a giant capital ship Heralds came to Roshar on".

I mean, everything in Urithiru felt "alien" to Shallan, even material the city was made from. More and more i believe its a dreaming flying space city fed on Stormlight.

I wonder was Stormlight even native feature of Roshar or Heralds brought it to Roshar via this ship, and thus brought the imbalance to this planet.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Harbour

[mariapapadia]

7 minutes ago, Aleksiel said:

Could it be due to similarities with the one Kaladin told to Hoid? As if Fleet and the white haired girl were on the opposite sites of the wall/mountain where the storms die. It made me wonder if it could be related to Culltivation somehow.

I'd have to reread that to be sure. Some details are a little blurry in my mind right now and the rereading is going soooo slow I only read on the bus/metro on my way to work because I spent all my free time lurking on the Shard 

[+Wax]

9 minutes ago, Harbour said:

Oh, and i forgot to mention.

Reading about Shallans feelign about Urithiru, i got a thought "Dayuuuum, Urithiru gotta be a giant capital ship Heralds came to Roshar on".

I mean, everything in Urithiru felt "alien" to Shallan, even material the city was made from. More and more i believe its a dreaming flying space city fed on Stormlight.

I wonder was Stormlight even native feature of Roshar or Heralds brought it to Roshar via this ship, and thus brought the imbalance to this planet.

After all, if there is a oathgate on Ashyn or Braize... who knows.  

The removed pillars also link to something I don’t know.

Multiple references to lecture room set up also makes me think this is going to be significant.

[bo.montier]

12 minutes ago, Aleksiel said:

Could it be due to similarities with the one Kaladin told to Hoid? As if Fleet and the white haired girl were on the opposite sites of the wall/mountain where the storms die. It made me wonder if it could be related to Culltivation somehow.

It really is very similar to the various stealing fire stories, as someone pointed out earlier. 

Man is here, and it's dark and cold. Man looks up to clouds, wonders whats there. Man goes there, sees fire and cooked food and stuff, Man steals it, Man is punished for his thievery.

Also, Brandon did a truly EXCELLENT job at capturing the tone of many myths with that section, I think part of the reason it felt so familiar was just the tone of the writing.

[IntentAwesome]

Thank goodness Shallan didn't kill that horneater!!

Also, I need to hear the jokes Adolin is cracking with Bridge Four. Basically, I just need more Bridge Four.

[Dahak]

6 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Adolins dislike toward him is interesting, but I guess it has to do with his loyalty toward Kaladin. 

Adolin claims his dislike of Amaran dates to before that.

 

6 hours ago, Sliverofnone said:

I believe that Elhokar has two sets. He lends one set out for training/dueling lighteyes.

Elohkar uses the set Dalinar captured this week and lends out Gavilar's old set.

Of course if they'd given the Plate and Blade to Jasnah things would be different.

 

5 hours ago, Asrael said:

Anyone else think of no-face when Shallan first sees the Unmade thingy?

I was thinking the Invaders from Getta Robo Armageddon and Midnight Essences.

4 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

Shallan's lightweaving almost reminded me of Atium...

Allomantic Electrum was my thought. Or Allomantic Gold.

4 hours ago, Pattern said:

I also had Midnight Essence in mind. Because it's squishy and it lingers in the dark parts of Urithiru.

Or it's Re-Shephir, the Unmade responsible for spawning Midnight Essence.

It also seems to have the ability to make Shallan draw weird stuff neither she herself nor Pattern can remember being drawn. This seems to be a bit much for simple Midnight Essence.

So did the Cryptics.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Dahak

[dantlee]

3 hours ago, Ramza1890 said:

Do you think perhaps that this is why Dalinar's memories of Evi are starting to return? Because the Nightwatcher is focused on the looming invasion and because of that Dalinar's Boon/Curses lapsed?

I have a hard time believing that it's anything to do with the nightwatcher; otherwise we'd see Mr. T and Lift's boons/curses coming undone as well. 

[Ironeyes]

Anyone else read the play and think, "Brandon just borrowed the plot of The Giver?" 

Also eat that, Shalladin shippers. 

[Rhaegar'Elin]

On Oatbringer and the Epigraphs

From Chapter 26 - Blacktorn Unleashed

Quote

“Oh, don’t pretend you are any better,” Dalinar said. “I know what you did to rise to your throne. You can’t pretend to be a peacemaker now.”

I think this summarize how all people on Roshar see current Dalinar: leaders don't trust his offers of peace and other Radiants (well just Malata but I think it would be easy to generalize) are wary of him. And I can't really blame them: Alethi are generally known to be warlords and the Blackthorn was the worst (or the best) of them all.

Most of all, I think Dalinar chose the wrong approach to this project, presenting himself as a man of peace (making wary who knows of the Blackthorn's deeds) and never confronting with his past.

So, I think Oathbringer will be Dalinar's last attempt at unifying Roshar peacefully: he will show the world the man he used to be, a man who didn't need tricks or subterfuge to seize what he wanted... more or less like he brutally explained this concept to his nephew back in SA1 (and I don't think it's a coincidence that Elhokar reminded what happened in the chapter he nominated Dalinar Highking). Of course, I don't think this book will only be a "veiled threat" but also an account on Dalinar himself: explaining his story and his motives, the man who is now and the purpose that drives him. All for the sake of convincing Roshar's people to trust him.

Sure, the Epigraphs are (intentionally) so vague that the author could be literally anyone (even Amaram) but I kinda like this explanation.

25. The Girl Who Looked Up

- IIRC, every Stormlight book will have a story and this is likely the one for SA3. I was surprised it wasn't narrated by Wit (but it's still possible he will tell us the conclusion, that felt a little bit rushed to me) and a little disappointed Brandon changed the title: in a twitter he announced that the story's title in this book would have been The Girl Who Stole The Light (that is much more cooler).

- I was surprised by the possible readings of this story, though: initially I thought the Wall represented Urithiru than that was a metaphor for Shallan's mind (not letting certain things reach to her) and lastly a "fairy tale" based on the ancient conflict (?) with the Listeners. I fear I could came up with other absurd explanation if I keep wondering...

- Anyway, everyone knows that the Wall was build as a defense against the Others.

- Shallan imitating Allomantic Electrum's effect: nice application of her Lightweaving.

- Lastly, Shallan meets Pennywise (they all float in Urithiru), the being behind the copycat's murders. Maybe IT's an Unmade... or maybe IT's something related to them (like the Ten Deaths).

26. Blackthorn Unleashed

- I really liked the interaction between Evi and Dalinar: how she wanted to be touched (much to Dalinar's dismay) and how hard she tries to bring out the best of him. I'm really worried about the upcoming chapters between the two (especially if the Epigraphs are dictated by Dalinar). I also liked Navani writing a glyph for Dalinar (not trusting Evi's writing) and him not burning it.

Quote

Idly, he wondered what it would take to actually earn the ardents’ displeasure.

Eventually he will know: Blackthorn's legend lives on!

- I really enjoyed the fight with Kalaran and exchange of words between the two: Dalinar recognizing the Thrill in his enemy's eyes reminds me of him recognizing the eyes of the Dark Shardbearer with Nine Shadows. I think it's already a fact but in this chapter there were a lot of hints pointing to the relation between the Thrill and Odium.

- Also, at the Tower, Dalinar used the same tactic as Kalaran in fighting Eshonai.

27. Playing Pretend

- Nice tidbits on the Dustbringer. I'm pretty neutral toward Malata but I think she's the real deal and doesn't have a private agenda: I think she's simple wary of Alethi (and Blackthorn in particular) due to the reasons mentioned above.

- Amaram is the new Highprince of the Sadeas Princedom: I don't think this is as bad as many Sharders claims... well, it sure isn't something good (especially for Kaladin) but I think that, all in all, it will play out well for Dalinar. 

I mean, in SA2 Amaram regretted having lost Dalinar's friendship and, right now, Dalinar represents pretty much what the Son's of Honor are striving to accomplish: I think he will genuinely help his friend in unifying Roshar and fighting the Desolation. Also, I believe he will see as his duty preventing Dalinar from becoming an heretic (IIRC they already had a discussion on the Almighty being dead in the previous book).

- Adolin being a proto-Dustbringer confirmed: he nonchalantly dropped a huge bomb on Shallan (and Kaladin) just to see of what they are made of.

- Shallan's drawing are pretty creepy: I wonder if we'll see some of them in the book.

 

 

[Aminar]

52 minutes ago, Harbour said:

Oh, and i forgot to mention.

Reading about Shallans feelign about Urithiru, i got a thought "Dayuuuum, Urithiru gotta be a giant capital ship Heralds came to Roshar on".

I mean, everything in Urithiru felt "alien" to Shallan, even material the city was made from. More and more i believe its a dreaming flying space city fed on Stormlight.

I wonder was Stormlight even native feature of Roshar or Heralds brought it to Roshar via this ship, and thus brought the imbalance to this planet.

Stormlight is native. The Stormfather and his Highstorms predate Humans on the planet. 

[FiveLate]

Ok first thoughts after reading chapters, but before comments.

Well hello Blightsong....or wait Aimian...or wait Blightsong the Odium Corrupted Dysian Aimian.....

Ryshadium with music spren.......do they here the Rythyms?

About her recycled flashback from Unfettered 1/2.  Did anything change?

Highprince Regent Araman.....trouble there.

Lol they like to know what is inside things....wondered how Brandon was going to explain a spren with powers like division and abrasion...

[Andy92]

55 minutes ago, IntentAwesome said:

Also, I need to hear the jokes Adolin is cracking with Bridge Four. Basically, I just need more Bridge Four.

Yeah, my one disappointment with part one of the book is that Bridge Four is fairly nonexistent right now. Hoping they get some more interaction in later parts of the book. 

[Steeldancer]

1 hour ago, Aleksiel said:

Could it be due to similarities with the one Kaladin told to Hoid? As if Fleet and the white haired girl were on the opposite sites of the wall/mountain where the storms die. It made me wonder if it could be related to Culltivation somehow.

Or... Elantris????

[vividox]

Am I the only person who finds Evi 99% less interesting now that I know her name? I keep reading positive reactions to her, and, the way she's been portrayed, I'm so disinterested. 

[The Invested Beard]

20 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

Or... Elantris????

No.

[Elena]

Quote

“Bastard,” Adolin said.

Adolin is such a good bro.

[Caesura]

Something that stood out a bit to me that no-one's commented on yet:

Quote

Dalinar dashed toward the oncoming force, his Shardplate crunching against stones. He felt sad to have to engage a Shardbearer, instead of continuing his fight against the ordinary men. No more laying waste; he now had only one man to kill.

He could vaguely remember a time when facing lesser challenges hadn't sated him as much as a good fight against someone capable. What had changed?

The Thrill is clearly a negative thing, but this feels like it takes it a step up. Dalinar is starting to find more satisfaction in mindless slaughter of as many people as possible than the challenge of a good fight. Whatever flashbacks follow this, it's not going to be good.

[Shuffel]

Does anyone else belie Shallan's wall story is describing the relationship between the Humans and the Parshendi? 

[Viridian]

Ok, wild theory time. It's clear that Shallan's going crazy. She's too splintered. Her viewpoint is very unreliable.

And Adolin's acting weird, too. He didn't have a bone to pick with Amaram before.

I think that some of the time, it's not actually Adolin. I think Shallan is imagining him and maybe projecting her actions onto him.

Maybe Shallan was the one who got kicked out of the meeting for being belligerent (that part was really weird) and then imagined herself talking to Adolin, putting together truths she already knew. That guy wasn't acting very Adolin-ish. Shallan could have known it was Kaladin on the battlefield, could have already put it together and has been trying to avoid it.

I keep thinking of how Adolin is acting towards Shallan throughout these chapters, regularly reminding her of his name and their relationship. Who knows what she doesn't remember about how she's been acting? She's a total mess. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that this is how far she has cracked.

[Steeldancer]

Just now, Viridian said:

Ok, wild theory time. It's clear that Shallan's going crazy. She's too splintered. Her viewpoint is very unreliable.

And Adolin's acting weird, too. He didn't have a bone to pick with Amaram before.

I think that some of the time, it's not actually Adolin. I think Shallan is imagining him and maybe projecting her actions onto him.

Maybe Shallan was the one who got kicked out of the meeting for being belligerent (that part was really weird) and then imagined herself talking to Adolin, putting together truths she already knew. That guy wasn't acting very Adolin-ish. Shallan could have known it was Kaladin on the battlefield, could have already put it together and has been trying to avoid it.

I keep thinking of how Adolin is acting towards Shallan throughout these chapters, regularly reminding her of his name and their relationship. Who knows what she doesn't remember about how she's been acting? She's a total mess. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that this is how far she has cracked.

Hmmmm he always disliked Amaram. Thought he was too perfect. 

[FiveLate]

6 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

The Thrill one probably moves (it's name is Nergaoul by the way). Moelach moves as well, with the Death Rattles. Yelig-nar is capable of moving as well, but we don't know if it does that all the time. 

My point is that Odium probably waited for the right time to kick off a new Desolation, and laid low and prepared in silence in the meantime, which means that the Unmade probably were stuffed away waiting to be used somewhere. Remember, most of these ar single-minded, dull creatures. Moelach didn't start summoning Death Rattles until just recently (when Gavilar found the Parshendi, accoording to Coppermind), so it probably chilled out somewhere else too. In the thousand years of silence between Desolations, Odium wouldn't have much use for an Unmade that killed people, so he put it on stand-by in a place where it would be useful later on: Urithiru. It wasn't a waste, since he didn't need it for something else during that time.

This is not correct.  Per this WOB answer 6.

Spoiler

INTERVIEW: Mar 18th, 2014

WOR-Lexington, KY

GPMUSHU

Has the Thrill existed longer than the Death Rattles or have they both been occurring for about the same period of time?

BRANDON SANDERSON

The Thrill and the Death Rattles started around the same time, but the locations for the two fluctuate and have been since they appeared.

FOOTNOTE

This note is from the forums: (This is just a way of confirming that the Unmade have been active for about the same amount of time. Both started around the time Gavilar started to explore the Shattered Plains according to Taravangian.)

TAGS

thrill, death rattles,

We know from the Flashbacks that the Thrill was active 30+, almost 40 years ago.

Edit: But the rest of it meets logic.

Edited October 24, 2017 by FiveLate
Clarification