[OB] Oathbringer chapters 25-27

[Pattern]

Lets talk bit about Shallan's illusions. She seems to be able to create Lightweavings from images she has drawn as a young child while telling the story. People in the watching crowd have to be people she has drawn recently, since she has lost her sketchbooks to the ocean.

This, I think, is only a limitation originating in Shallan's perception. The details of the walls and the landscape she creates also have been lost in time and space, still she is subconciously using those drawings. She should also be able to use her lost sketches as she probably will be to make Lightweavings without sketching anything first.  

Edited October 24, 2017 by Pattern

[King Cole]

The SSS Shaladin has hit some rocks here

[vividox]

2 hours ago, Aon Ene said:

Did anyone else think about Warbreaker when the white-haired girl was mentioned in Shallan's story?

Sounded like it could be an allegory straight from Nalthis.

Siri is born in Idris but never quite fits in. The city is boring and drab with little to no color. She leaves the city and discovers an entirely new world (in the form of color on Nalthis, in the form of Stormlight in the allegory - both having allusions to Investiture) which then tries to destroy her hometown.

It's certainly not a perfect allegory, there are details that don't fit, and we can assume this has more to do with Vivenna than Siri. But it certainly sounds like a kind of story based on a story, one that a guy named Hoid might tell, for instance.

[shawnhargreaves]

2 hours ago, Daishi5 said:

Dalinar saw red again while fighting and just slaughtering the enemy.  Voidbringers are supposed to have red eyes.  I really think parshendi are not the only ones who can become voidbringers.  

Word.

This fits with the end of Shallan's story:  "The wall did indeed hide something evil, something frightening. It was the people, like the girl and her village.”

Foreshadowing for a big humans-are-voidbringers reveal?

[Yezrien]

Quote

The tower of Urithiru was a skeleton, and these strata beneath Shallan’s fingers were veins that wrapped the bones, dividing and spreading across the entire body. But what did those veins carry? Not blood.

Stormlight? Are these gemlike veins a stormlight power distribution grid?

Is it me, or does Urithiru look more like a spaceship every week? With enough stormlight, could it blast off to Braize or Ashyn?

Quote

“There was a girl,” Shallan said. “This was before storms, before memories, and before legends—but there was still a girl. She wore a long scarf to blow in the wind.”

This story definitely seems meaningful, and I think @Hyarmenatan nailed it with the Shinovar connection.

But no one is talking about that scarf. It's not essential to the story, but it's featured very prominently. Either it's a metaphor for something important, or it's awakened.

Quote

“I cannot say,” Pattern replied. “It is not a thing of us. It is of him.”

Definitely a spren of Odium, but I think it's premature to assume it's an Unmade. It could be, but it could also be a generic footsoldier. There could be dozens of these things, invisible to non-radiants, spreading violence and mayhem all over the world. How many unsolved murders happen every year in a large city?

Quote

“Brightness Kalami,” Dalinar was saying. “The last report. It listed a large gathering of the enemy in Marat, was it?”

“Yes, Brightlord,” the scribe said from her position at the reading desk. “Southern Marat. You hypothesized it was the low population of the region that induced the Voidbringers to gather there.”

“The Iriali have taken the chance to strike eastward, as they’ve always wanted to,” Dalinar said. “They’ll seize Rira and Babatharnam. Meanwhile, areas like Triax—around the southern half of central Roshar—continue to go dark.”

Two major persons of interest are very close to Marat: Tezim and the Nightwatcher. There's a lot in that region we don't understand.

But, glancing at the map, I can't help but notice that the Valley seems surrounded. It's got Marat, where the voidbringers are massing, to the south; it's got Azir, which is negotiating with them, to the west; and it's got the whole "gone dark" area to the east. Something's up, I think. The Nightwatcher has something the enemy wants.

 

[shawnhargreaves]

17 minutes ago, Pattern said:

Dalinar killing hundreds of men, some of them his own, in mere minutes could very well be what drove him to the Ardentia.

I don't think so, because none of the other Alethi were shocked by anything that happened in this flashback.   I actually found that the most shocking thing about it!   Dalinar got so carried away that he killed a bunch of his own men, and Gavilar was just like, "dude, nice job there, we won, yay..."

Which makes me think that whatever happened later on must have been REALLY REALLY bad.

[StormingTexan]

Haven't had a chance to read all the comments yet but holy chapters batman! Shallan and that story seems important.. It was also really cool to see that stage and how it was probably used in the past by Radiants. So the copycat is copying all violence not just murders. Is it a voidbringer? Unmade? Voidspren? 

Wow Dalinar's chapters were really intense. He seems so different. The end of that though was that what changed him to what we see now? Contemplating killing his brother? I assumed it was the Nightwatcher but he has mentioned this situation before so maybe this is what lightened up the Blackthorne. Especially considering this battele seemed to be the victory of the reunification. What was with the rhythm and red vision? These beginning chapters are nagging at me somehow regarding who is actually on the side of good. I just cant help but think we may not have been rooting for the "good guys" all along. Maybe the real issue is there is a lot more gray area we do not know about. 

Wow Amaram is High Prince. No doubt with Ialai pulling the strings. Man Kaladin should really just stay with those Listeners. Even turning in to a voidbringer would be better than the day he is going to have  when he comes back to find out this and that Adolin ratted him out for killing Shallan's brother. 

[The Invested Beard]

Just now, shawnhargreaves said:

I don't think so, because none of the other Alethi were shocked by anything that happened in this flashback.   I actually found that the most shocking thing about it!   Dalinar got so carried away that he killed a bunch of his own men, and Gavilar was just like, "dude, nice job there, we won, yay..."

Which makes me think that whatever happened later on must have been REALLY REALLY bad.

Yeah I know Brandon Sanderson and there's a reason they call the end of his books an avalanche.

[kari-no-sugata]

Random thought #1 Why are the spanreeds failing? Is it something done intentionally? Is it a byproduct of something else? Did spanreeds ever exist in the past? Will Kaladin's go quiet at some point?

Random thought #2 Last we heard, Shallan was trying to keep the fact that she was a Lightweaver hidden yet they did a big bad Lightweaving map in front of everybody. What gives? I don't think anyone would believe that it's an Elsecaller ability.

[Patrick Star]

2 minutes ago, Belzedar said:

Stormlight? Are these gemlike veins a stormlight power distribution grid?

Is it me, or does Urithiru look more like a spaceship every week? With enough stormlight, could it blast off to Braize or Ashyn?

This story definitely seems meaningful, and I think @Hyarmenatan nailed it with the Shinovar connection.

But no one is talking about that scarf. It's not essential to the story, but it's featured very prominently. Either it's a metaphor for something important, or it's awakened.

1 - I remember seeing a theory about Aluminum being used in Urithiru as a stormlight sink.  It would actually be a good material for stormlight "wires", and would also explain the unhallowed stones.

2 - I joked about stonewards building a spaceship to fly Nightblood to Braize to eat Odium, but that may just be possible

3 - Long scarf, you say?  Holy crap, that story really is Attack on Titan

[DocHoliday]

1 minute ago, kari-no-sugata said:

Random thought #1 Why are the spanreeds failing? Is it something done intentionally? Is it a byproduct of something else? Did spanreeds ever exist in the past? Will Kaladin's go quiet at some point?

Random thought #2 Last we heard, Shallan was trying to keep the fact that she was a Lightweaver hidden yet they did a big bad Lightweaving map in front of everybody. What gives? I don't think anyone would believe that it's an Elsecaller ability.

I'm pretty sure they cleared the room of guards, so the only witnesses were the Kholins and they're on the "in" anyway.

[Leyrann]

4 minutes ago, Belzedar said:

Stormlight? Are these gemlike veins a stormlight power distribution grid?

Is it me, or does Urithiru look more like a spaceship every week? With enough stormlight, could it blast off to Braize or Ashyn?

And now I wish I hadn't used up my upvotes for today already...

[kari-no-sugata]

1 minute ago, DocHoliday said:

I'm pretty sure they cleared the room of guards, so the only witnesses were the Kholins and they're on the "in" anyway.

I'm referring to the one in chapter 27:

Quote

She sat with her feet up, thighs supporting her drawing pad, stockinged toes curling over the rim of the bench in front of her. Not the most dignified of positions; Radiant would be mortified. At the front of the auditorium, Dalinar stood before the glowing map that Shallan and he—somehow combining their powers—could create. He’d invited Taravangian, the highprinces, their wives, and their head scribes. Elhokar had come with Kalami, who was scribing for him lately.

Everybody who's anybody is here...

[Steeldancer]

1 minute ago, Leyrann said:

And now I wish I hadn't used up my upvotes for today already...

As I've said before, Tuesdays are like an economy of upvotes. Gotta get ahead however you can 

[Erunion]

Ooooh, lots of juicy stuff here! 

We have a sketchy kandra-esque creature! We have light-theatre! Wild ryshadium! Dalinar as a junkie! Evi bring all nice and stuff! Kaladin sending a glyph! Mad abstract art! Iri as a whole siding with the enemy!?!?! A skeptical dustbringer! 

All of it - veeerrrryyyy interesting. 

The Monster: looks like a mistwraith/kandra, but possibly uglier and maybe no bones? 

Likely an Unmade. Possibly a corrupted Kandra? I’d say both but I doubt the timelines match up; Kandra weren’t around until a millennia post-recreance. Likely then a similar being created using a different magic system. Aimian? Corrupted Aimian!? Aimian-based evil Spren or Unmade? (Honour Spren seem to be human based - so similar but ancient and Aimian and Odious?). 

 

The Thrill: Oh Dalinar, you recovering addict you. Here we see him about to snap, ruled by the Thrill and by the Unmade. Anything for another high. But his Will starts to exert itself - he chooses to control. He chooses Control. 

I suspect this is where he begins to appreciate Evi - who likely feels very lost and out of place amongst these warlike Alethi. She’s much to nice. 

 

Holy Crap You Guys Why Aren’t We Talking About Iri?!?: Storming father of Storms and thunder!!! Iri is lost to the enemy? Are they allying with Odium? Or just using this as an excuse to expand their hegemony? Have they been Odiously deceived? Or are they perhaps honestly trying to help the Parshfolk???

In the meantime, Shallan desperately needs Jasnah to return. She also needs a vacation and a good shrink. Poor Shallan’s mind is unravelling. 

On her multiple image attack - where she sends out a bunch of ‘ghost shallans’ - this isn’t her going crazy, it’s a classic illusionist battlefield maneuver. Send out a dozen fakes to spring an ambush or confuse a foe! Reminds me of Zero from borderlands 2! 

[Leyrann]

1 minute ago, Steeldancer said:

As I've said before, Tuesdays are like an economy of upvotes. Gotta get ahead however you can 

I didn't realize, having joined only about a week ago... (I think in the weekend) I used up most of them on some meme threads I came across earlier today. Was a bad idea, in hindsight.

[Steeldancer]

1 minute ago, Leyrann said:

I didn't realize, having joined only about a week ago... (I think in the weekend) I used up most of them on some meme threads I came across earlier today. Was a bad idea, in hindsight.

Ah. Memes. Dangerous Upvote bait, those are. 

[Salkara]

2 hours ago, Agent34 said:

Can Shallan's recruits be called the Lightrangers?

Will there be red, black, blue, yellow, and pink light rangers? WILL THEY GET ZORDS!?!

2 hours ago, Hyarmenatan said:

I wonder whether there is a 'line' which, once crossed, cannot be crossed back, and you stay in a mindless, full of rage state, forever. Maybe that's what a Vondbinding actually is?  

I certainly hope not. I hope that voidbinding offers something that some people would find tempting. I don't find a permanent state of mindless rage. I want the bad guys to make decisions that make sense for a rational-but-misguided person. Deciding to give up your mind in order to become a rage monster? I can't see that as a rational decision.

53 minutes ago, Aleksiel said:

Why waste an Unmade to have it stand by for centuries there?

If Odium is playing the long game, when events occur will be just as important as what events occur. Stashing an Unmade in Urithiru could easily be part of the plan.

39 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

Rock being injured hit me harder than Dalinar breaking the horses back....

Luckily there's a Radiant lurking around Bridge 4 with access to the Progression surge.

[Leyrann]

2 minutes ago, Salkara said:

I certainly hope not. I hope that voidbinding offers something that some people would find tempting. I don't find a permanent state of mindless rage. I want the bad guys to make decisions that make sense for a rational-but-misguided person. Deciding to give up your mind in order to become a rage monster? I can't see that as a rational decision.

But do people need to choose the bond? Or, like Dalinar seems to do here, do they need to consciously choose not to go for it, and will they otherwise get 'sucked in', so to say, without ever realizing something is wrong?

3 minutes ago, Salkara said:

Luckily there's a Radiant lurking around Bridge 4 with access to the Progression surge.

Eh, who?

[Stark]

26 minutes ago, King Cole said:

The SSS Shaladin has hit some rocks here

I don't know about that.  Can she really hate him for the despicable act of murdering her brother with a broken spear and no armor when Heleran used Plate and Blade?  Having gotten to know Kaladin as a fellow tortured human before this reveal, it may help her get closer to him.  Besides which:

Quote

She didn’t mind that part, being a despicable murderer herself.

 

[Jace21]

I am not buying the mimicspren being an Unmade. Not unless its power is a lot more significant than it seems.

I have no real alternative explanation though, a corrupted mid-level spren maybe? Not as mindless as say firespren but not sapient like a radiant spren. More like a river spren.

All in all though so far the chapters up to this point are just convincing me that there is no "good side" or at fhe very least that who in the right has changed many times.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Jace21

[Pattern]

14 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

18 minutes ago, Salkara said:

Luckily there's a Radiant lurking around Bridge 4 with access to the Progression surge.

Eh, who?

Renarin

[Pagerunner]

12 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

Eh, who?

Renarin, I believe.

10 minutes ago, Jace21 said:

I am not buying the mimicspren being an Unmade. Not unless its power is a lot more significant than it seems.

I have no real alternative explanation though, a corrupted mid-level spren maybe? Not as mindless as say firespren but not sapient like a radiant spren. More like a river spren.

Let's not rule out more mundane forces of Odium (something like the MIdnight Essence, which we have barely seen). It might not be a spren at all, but some sort of monster. It seems Physical enough so far.

[StormingTexan]

Ok now that I have read all the comments want to say I am on board with the previous ideas Shallan's story was the first humans on Roshar and I like the idea the "bad" people were in Shinovar. Only problem I have with that is I would think Shallan would have describer the girl as Shin. The white hair too of course now that I think of it have we seen a Shin female's appearance described? I wonder if she is even a girl as Shin have a child like appearance. 

[Ramza1890]

35 minutes ago, Belzedar said:

Stormlight? Are these gemlike veins a stormlight power distribution grid?

Is it me, or does Urithiru look more like a spaceship every week? With enough stormlight, could it blast off to Braize or Ashyn?

This story definitely seems meaningful, and I think @Hyarmenatan nailed it with the Shinovar connection.

But no one is talking about that scarf. It's not essential to the story, but it's featured very prominently. Either it's a metaphor for something important, or it's awakened.

Definitely a spren of Odium, but I think it's premature to assume it's an Unmade. It could be, but it could also be a generic footsoldier. There could be dozens of these things, invisible to non-radiants, spreading violence and mayhem all over the world. How many unsolved murders happen every year in a large city?

Two major persons of interest are very close to Marat: Tezim and the Nightwatcher. There's a lot in that region we don't understand.

But, glancing at the map, I can't help but notice that the Valley seems surrounded. It's got Marat, where the voidbringers are massing, to the south; it's got Azir, which is negotiating with them, to the west; and it's got the whole "gone dark" area to the east. Something's up, I think. The Nightwatcher has something the enemy wants.

 

Do you think perhaps that this is why Dalinar's memories of Evi are starting to return? Because the Nightwatcher is focused on the looming invasion and because of that Dalinar's Boon/Curses lapsed?