[OB] Oathbringer chapters 25-27

[kari-no-sugata]

"The Girl Who Looked Up" was nice and multi-layered. I was very happy to see Shallan do something very Lightweaver like. Her skill with Lightweaving is certainly improving - creating multiple moving characters from her memories. However, I don't think she can do sound properly yet for them - if I interpreted it correctly, Shallan herself was voicing them.

For the story itself, it somehow reminded me of various Earth legends like stealing fire from the gods and the like. I somehow felt that it was real and the girl's hair becoming white had a real meaning (and subtly seems to reference Shalash though it could be other things - there's also a certain white-haired Hoid...).

An interesting little nugget:

Quote

Too many memories of her father, and of her mother, who had loved telling her stories. She tried to banish those memories, but they wouldn’t go.

Not really much to say here. It's the sort of thing mothers do though and at least it shows that not all of Shallan's memories of her mother are bad.

This was curious too:

Quote

A dozen versions of herself, from drawings she’d done recently, split around her and dashed through the room. Shallan in her dress, Veil in her coat. Shallan as a child, Shallan as a youth. Shallan as a soldier, a happy wife, a mother. Leaner here, plumper there. Scarred. Bright with excitement. Bloodied and in pain. They vanished after passing her, collapsing one after another into Stormlight that curled and twisted about itself before vanishing away.

From the sounds of things, Shallan has been drawing out possible other lives of herself and various other things. I guess this is a hint that she's trying to find herself. Why did these drawings appear though?

Also:

 

Quote

“What was that?” Radiant said. “Did you see it?”

No, Pattern thought to her. I was thinking on the lie.

I don't remember Pattern thinking thoughts to Shallan before. Is this a general ability? Seems odd that it would be somehow related to Radiant... but who knows.

 

Quote

 

“Mmmm,” Pattern said. “Yes, that is correct.”

“It has to be some kind of spren, right?”

“I feel I should know,” Pattern said. “This… this is a thing from long ago. Long, long ago…”

Shallan shivered. “Why is it here?”

“I cannot say,” Pattern replied. “It is not a thing of us. It is of him.”

“An ancient spren of Odium. Delightful.” Shallan flipped the page over the top of her sketchbook and started on another drawing.

 

Is this an individual from long long ago or is this type of thing from long long ago, I wonder...?

One thought about this thing: deep within Urithiru, Shallan feels oppressed by the darkness and enjoys the light in the upper levels. Is this just a co-incidence? Do they need to let the light in, as it were?

 

 

Quote

 

The sounds of arguing politicians drifted to Shallan’s ears as she sketched. She sat on a stone seat at the back of the large meeting room near the top of the tower. She’d brought a pillow to sit on, and Pattern buzzed happily on the little pedestal.

She sat with her feet up, thighs supporting her drawing pad, stockinged toes curling over the rim of the bench in front of her. Not the most dignified of positions; Radiant would be mortified. At the front of the auditorium, Dalinar stood before the glowing map that Shallan and he—somehow combining their powers—could create. He’d invited Taravangian, the highprinces, their wives, and their head scribes. Elhokar had come with Kalami, who was scribing for him lately.

Renarin stood beside his father in his Bridge Four uniform, looking uncomfortable—so basically, same as usual. Adolin lounged nearby, arms folded, occasionally whispering a joke toward one of the men of Bridge Four.

Radiant should be down there, engaging in this important discussion about the future of the world. Instead, Shallan drew. The light was just so good up here, with these broad glass windows. She was tired of feeling trapped in the dark hallways of the lower levels, always feeling that something was watching her.

 

 

Hahah, I totally expected Shallan to sketch during meetings

Also, it very much looks like Shallan's idea of "Radiant" is the person she believes she should be.

 

Quote

 

“Amaram has a Shardblade,” Shallan said. “I saw it previously in the hands of my brother, Helaran. He was older than I am, and left Jah Keved years ago. From what I can gather, he and Amaram fought at some point, and Amaram killed him—taking the Blade.”

“Shallan… that Blade. You know where Amaram got that, right?” “On the battlefield?”

“From Kaladin.” Adolin raised his hand to his head. “The bridgeboy insisted that he’d saved Amaram’s life by killing a Shardbearer. Amaram then killed Kaladin’s squad and took the Shards for himself. That’s basically the entire reason the two hate each other.”

Shallan’s throat grew tight. “Oh.”

Tuck it away. Don’t think about it.

 

Well, it was bound to come up as sooner or later. It's not the sort of thing Adolin was likely to keep quiet about but he did come across as being a bit insensitive about Shallan's brother. It's quite clear that Adolin was rather upset with Amaram being there though.

 

Quote

“I’m afraid it might be dangerous,” Shallan said, then smiled. “And it will probably involve you getting a little drunk.”

"Shallan and the Twelve Drunks" are go!

[paperstones]

7 minutes ago, Argent said:

Quote

Enthralled, he cut down foe after foe, sensing a strange rhythm to the fighting, as if the blows of his sword needed to fall to the dictates of some unseen beat. A redness grew at the edges of his vision, eventually covering the landscape like a veil. It seemed to shift and move like the coils of an eel, trembling to the beats of his sword.

This. This! This deep in the Thrill, Dalinar is... what, seeing something of Neorgaul's power? Seeing a little bit into the Cognitive? I've been thinking about this red haze every since I read this chapter in Unfettered II, and I don't know what to make of it. It is obviously magical in nature, this is not just a metaphorical "seeing red", and it's tied to the Thrill, but beyond that I haven't been able to come up with anything good. And, I mean, there is also this:

We know that red has a Cosmere wide significance. Taking this with the Kandra at the end of MBSH I think this shows manipulation or your cognitive self being controlled.

[Pattern]

3 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said:

I don't remember Pattern thinking thoughts to Shallan before. Is this a general ability? Seems odd that it would be somehow related to Radiant... but who knows.

Pattern is in Bladeform there, so he communicates talking to Shallan's mind. Like Syl does with Kaladin and Nightblood with whoever wants to slay some Evil today.

[Mulk]

From Adolin's viewpoint there is no reason Shallan shouldn't know about the beef between Kaladin and Amaram - he may even be trying to protect Shallan from an unjust grudge, as her anger at Amaram is misplaced as he didn't kill Helaran.  For all he is trying to hide his killing of Sadeas, Adolin is a very honest man who believes truthfulness is the way forward so I find the whole reaction to Adolin revealing this to be kinda weird. This is who Adolin is, in all things except the Sadeas incident.

Actually, I think we should call it that from here on out.  "The Sadeas Incident."

For the rest, Shallan is disturbed and becoming more so.  I see no peace in her with who she needs to be.  She seems to be having the crisis of self in this book that Kaladin was having in the last one.  Or at least the Lightweaver/Cryptic-involved equivalent.  I think her path is more dangerous to herself though.  It's like she's on the edge of breaking her mind.

Dalinar...man.  I would NOT have wanted to line up against that guy in anything.  And I think it's fitting that his realizations and progression comes in an abrupt jump.  Part of his past is he has killed his own men under the influence of the Thrill, but I'm afraid it's going to get much worse before it gets better.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Mulk
got her order wrong

[ccstat]

6 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said:

However, I don't think she can do sound properly yet for them - if I interpreted it correctly, Shallan herself was voicing them.

I thought it was written to show that each character had its own voice, with Shallan doing the narration herself. I'll read it again, but that was one thing that stuck out to me as soon as she started and made me think that she'd figured out the whole sound issue.

[kari-no-sugata]

5 minutes ago, Pattern said:

Pattern is in Bladeform there, so he communicates talking to Shallan's mind. Like Syl does with Kaladin and Nightblood with whoever wants to slay some Evil today.

I checked the end of WoR and it seems so. Thanks. However, there's a bit of a continuity issue here I felt - Shallan has Pattern in Blade form just before the bit I quote and we don't see her dismiss him... and a few paragraphs down she's summoning him again. Okay, it's not like has to be mentioned every time a Blade is summoned or dismissed but still... it makes things a bit less clear.

[frozndevl]

52 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

am I the only one who thinks adolin was right in telling shallan? she was going to learn anyway, and sooner is better than later. I especially don't like the idea of letting a person be misled on something like this.

To Adolin, it was something that happened in the course of battle, so he doesn't see that it should have any impact on people. This is his naivete shining through. I like him more and more.

[Aleksiel]

I doubt what we saw was Unmade. They are supposed to be nine splinters of Odium and just copycat killing people who look similar doesn't have the hateful vibe to be one of those. 

[vividox]

Well that was a lot more words than we're used to getting each week. No short chapters at all. Two more weeks of these before release, so we're getting pretty close to the end of part 1.

Lots of interesting things going on with Shallan. Complex lightweaving play. Some rando Odium spren is doing the mime killings/violence and is seeking out people who resemble the initial target.

The Blackthorn, lots of visual allusion to the Thrill being of Odium. Red eyes, destructive lust, feeling the rhythms... this very much resembles Parshendi in Stormform. I was surprised the Rhyshadium were mentioned and then Dalinar didn't get one.

More Shallan, the first words from the Dustbringer and Pattern's reaction. Amaran becomes Highprince Sadeas (not much improvement over the last one). Holy Adolin dropping the Kaladin/Heleran news like it's hot. Shallan is really starting to go crazy.

 

Just three weeks to go!

[sooyangi]

I feel like it's getting easier to wait each week for the chapters! And now we only have a few weeks left until Oathbringer comes out! I can't wait until it comes out so I don't have to wait a week for three chapters to come out aha.

Shallan's story was really interesting! What she did with her story was really cool.

I don't have anything interesting to say except I love Adolin and I wish we would get appearances from Renarin from someone other than Shallan.

Edited October 24, 2017 by sooyangi

[Aleksiel]

Does anyone else think the epigraphs are useless? Even when we find out who the author is, they won't give us much information. I'm actually disappointed, in-world OB so far seems pointless.

[Toaster Retribution]

2 minutes ago, Aleksiel said:

I doubt what we saw was Unmade. They are supposed to be nine splinters of Odium and just copycat killing people who look similar doesn't have the hateful vibe to be one of those. 

They are supposed to be non-sentient (most of them are pretty non-sentient), as well as creepy, and most likely with various skill-sets and functions. They are not like the Forsaken in WoT or the Death Eaters in HP. Unmade are more... wierd. This seems to fit all those boxes. I think it can do more than just copy-cat hurting others as well, but that is its main function now. 

[Leyrann]

Just now, Aleksiel said:

Does anyone else think the epigraphs are useless? Even when we find out who the author is, they won't give us much information. I'm actually disappointed, in-world OB so far seems pointless.

Eh. How often do you bother to even read the introduction/preface to a book? I can tell you I barely ever even bother.

[Aleksiel]

4 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

Eh. How often do you bother to even read the introduction/preface to a book? I can tell you I barely ever even bother.

My best guess is we'll see more of in-world OB. I mean in other parts since part one is almost over, it will probably end revealing who wrote it. Still, WoK and WoR didn't have so many epigraphs with little valuable information. 

@Toaster Retribution I remain skeptical though. Why is it there after so much time? The other unmade move around.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Aleksiel

[Guest]

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

am I the only one who thinks adolin was right in telling shallan? she was going to learn anyway, and sooner is better than later. I especially don't like the idea of letting a person be misled on something like this.

I would have liked, that Kaladin tells her himself, but what is out is out. Maybe it's good though, Adolin's attitude toward it, thinking like a soldier, might make her understand it better. Kaladin was just doing, what he thought was right. And honestly, he probably was. He'd have to do the same now, under his new oaths.

28 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said:

"Shallan and the Twelve Drunks" are go!

I really prefer @Overlord Jebus' Shallan and the Shallads, though  Looking forward to that chapter.

6 minutes ago, Aleksiel said:

Does anyone else think the epigraphs are useless? Even when we find out who the author is, they won't give us much information. I'm actually disappointed, in-world OB so far seems pointless.

It's just the preface. We'll probably get more.

[Jigar]

Could the Oathbringer be written by Evi?

 

She is believed to be dead and she is a heretic.

“And she made no mention of the Almighty—instead she spoke of something called the One, a heretical tradition the ardents told him came from Iri.”

She might have killed her brother or maybe she might have killed Dalinar metaphorically by taking away all her memories from him?

I don't think it's written by Dalinar cause

1 he is not believed to be dead yet

2 Men on Roshar do not write it is believed ti be Feminine trait.

3 How can Dalinar enter Shadesmar?

4 If Dalinar started confessing for all the murders he has committed then we would need another book filled with Dalinar confession only. 

"I will confess my murders before you. Most painfully, I have killed someone who loved me dearly."

It must be someone who has committed few murders. which can be listed in epigraphs of one book.

Thoughts?

[The Invested Beard]

So random musings:

The story Shallan tells is almost definitely metaphorical lore pertaining to the first humans on Roshar and how they first bonded spren and "stole them" away from the Listeners. The white hair on the girl seems fairly significant, but I'm not sure what it's referring to.

So the copycat spren is either unmade or something a step up from but related to the midnight essences. Not enough to go on yet. Should be interesting to see if there's ever a point it's captured and it unexpectedly starts talking.

The Thrill being shown as 100% some sort of controlling effect of an unmade. Love it.

Ryshadium and music spren? Some sort of connection to Dawnsingers/Rhythms?

Malata is my new favorite. Be annoyed all you want Shallan and company, I think she's just peachy. Her offhand comment about having only the Vorin teachings' word about the Recreance and everything that happened with the Radiants seems a lot more important and prescient than looking on the surface as some sort of racist thing. Oh and Spark the spren? YES! Start breaking things to find out what's inside dude! That was me as a kid so yeah Dustbringers continue to be my peeps.

[Toaster Retribution]

6 minutes ago, Aleksiel said:

 

@Toaster Retribution I remain skeptical though. Why is it there after so much time? The other unmade move around.

We know that one of them move around. There are seven others uncounted for. I guess Odium placed it there to inconvenience humanity if they ever decided to return to Urithiru.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, The Invested Beard said:

Malata is my new favorite. Be annoyed all you want Shallan and company, I think she's just peachy. Her offhand comment about having only the Vorin teachings' word about the Recreance and everything that happened with the Radiants seems a lot more important and prescient than looking on the surface as some sort of racist thing. Oh and Spark the spren? YES! Start breaking things to find out what's inside dude! That was me as a kid so yeah Dustbringers continue to be my peeps.

I agree.

Plus, 'bashing' Dalinar? Was just some banter trying to connect with a fellow Veden. I like her easygoing attitude.

[Ryder]

1 minute ago, The Invested Beard said:

So the copycat spren is either unmade or something a step up from but related to the midnight essences. Not enough to go on yet. Should be interesting to see if there's ever a point it's captured and it unexpectedly starts talking.

Why do you think it's related to midnight essence?  Because it's squishy?

[The Invested Beard]

Just now, Ryder said:

Why do you think it's related to midnight essence?  Because it's squishy?

Yep. Not much else to go on, but sometimes the simplest answer is the best.

[Steeldancer]

Shallan's lightweaving almost reminded me of Atium...

[What's a Seawolf?]

8 minutes ago, Ryder said:

Why do you think it's related to midnight essence?  Because it's squishy?

 

Dori is Odium confirmed.

Edited October 24, 2017 by What's a Seawolf?
Pic not working

[Pattern]

6 minutes ago, Ryder said:

Why do you think it's related to midnight essence?  Because it's squishy?

I also had Midnight Essence in mind. Because it's squishy and it lingers in the dark parts of Urithiru.

Or it's Re-Shephir, the Unmade responsible for spawning Midnight Essence.

Quote

Re-Shephir, the Midnight Mother, giving birth to abominations with her essence so dark, so terrible, so consuming. She is here! She watches me die!

The Way of Kings, Chapter 58 epigraph

It also seems to have the ability to make Shallan draw weird stuff neither she herself nor Pattern can remember being drawn. This seems to be a bit much for simple Midnight Essence.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Pattern

[Aleksiel]

4 minutes ago, SLNC said:

It's just the preface. We'll probably get more.

Yeah, I mentioned a post above you that's probably what will happen. Still, it feels like Brandon didn't want to give us almost anything in the first part, so instead of not doing epigraphs, he chose to include about 20 mostly irrelevant on a large scale.

1 minute ago, Toaster Retribution said:

We know that one of them move around. There are seven others uncounted for. I guess Odium placed it there to inconvenience humanity if they ever decided to return to Urithiru.

The thrill one seems to move around, at least the way I read it. Yelig-nar and Moelach also move around, so in my opinion all should be moving and not stationary. Why waste an Unmade to have it stand by for centuries there?