MistbornAlpaca

Hoid's Purpose in Shattering Adonalsium

11 posts in this topic

Okay, first off, this thread will make a lot more sense if you read my theory that it's based off. However, I will provide a basic explanation here. 

My theory is that Hoid was the mastermind behind the Shattering. We also know that he was offered a Shard, and refused it.

Now, here's the question. If he decided to shatter Adonalsium but refused a Shard, there are only a few possibilities as to his motives. This would say that it wasn't for power unless he had a change of heart between the Shattering and the time he was offered a Shard. So, what was his motive? Could Adonalsium have seemed threatening to him in a way we don't understand? What do you guys think?

Edited by MasterJack
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Perhaps Hoid wanted power, but was rather smart going about getting it. He could not have attacked Adonalsium directly, but convinced a group of people to do it for him. Often in the aftermath of a crisis or upheaval of power, new people get to have this new power. Hoid wants to stand out of the way and wait for a chance to seize power. It's what I would do if I were a relatively unimportant person who wanted to have power.

On second thought, I don't think Hoid would do this. It doesn't seem like he is a power hungry plotting person. I need to do some more thinking.

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Back in my own Hoid thread (link in my signature) I suggested that he wanted to become a better version of Adonalsium, for the good of the Cosmere

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I think Hoid refused a shard because he was aware that the intent of holding one would change him. Perhaps he does want power, but knows better than to just take one shard and get "trapped" with it's intent (it didn't turn out super useful for Preservation, for example). If he wants to be Adonalsium 2.0, he'd be wiser to make sure that he can take them all at once somehow.

But yeah, I wonder if Hoid isn't trying to correct an old mistake rather. Power hungry doesn't seem to fit him, but then again he's kind of a sly mastermind so who knows.

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4 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Back in my own Hoid thread (link in my signature) I suggested that he wanted to become a better version of Adonalsium, for the good of the Cosmere

If he wanted to become a better Adonalsium, why didn't he take a Shard?

1 hour ago, Penumbra said:

I think Hoid refused a shard because he was aware that the intent of holding one would change him. Perhaps he does want power, but knows better than to just take one shard and get "trapped" with it's intent (it didn't turn out super useful for Preservation, for example). If he wants to be Adonalsium 2.0, he'd be wiser to make sure that he can take them all at once somehow.

But yeah, I wonder if Hoid isn't trying to correct an old mistake rather. Power hungry doesn't seem to fit him, but then again he's kind of a sly mastermind so who knows.

I think this is a great idea!

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53 minutes ago, MasterJack said:

If he wanted to become a better Adonalsium, why didn't he take a Shard?

Because the 16 vessels were grabbing Shards already. And he didn't want to be controlled by a single intent, just like @Penumbra says.

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8 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Because the 16 vessels were grabbing Shards already. And he didn't want to be controlled by a single intent, just like @Penumbra says.

That's why I quote her. It was meant to be a cohesive thought, "Why didn't he take a Shard, here's why 'quote'. " It probably came across wrong though. Another thought. Maybe Hoid did want a Shard. What if the Vessels offered him a Shard before they Shattered Adonalsium (led by Hoid) but then stabbed him in the back (figuratively) and didn't give him what they'd promised? 

Edited by MasterJack
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9 minutes ago, MasterJack said:

That's why I quote her. It was meant to be a cohesive thought, "Why didn't he take a Shard, here's why 'quote'. " It probably came across wrong though. Another thought. Maybe Hoid did want a Shard. What if the Vessels offered him a Shard before they Shattered Adonalsium (led by Hoid) but then stabbed him in the back (figuratively) and didn't give him what they'd promised? 

I believe it has been quoted by Sanderson that Hoid specifically refused the shard that was offered. Who knows how that exchange went down though, maybe they offered him a really "bad" Shard. If it was specific that he was offered a shard, I guess he wasn't picking one. Maybe they offered Odium to him, and Hoid was smart enough to pass it along and not turn into ... well, Rayse/Odium.

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Ok..I think Liar of Partinel offers some insights here.  But I can't discuss it per site rules...find it.

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So far as we know Hoid didn't play a direct role in the Shattering (while the 16 others definitely did) but what can be seen as clear is that both Hoid and Frost had a hand in shaping it at the very least. We know there were diverse and often cross purposed goals for gaining Shards (Ati getting Ruin is probably one, while Rayse taking Odium is another). Hoid seems to more have been a spectator rather than a perpetrator. I wouldn't say Hoid wants to become Adonalsium 2.0, but he seems to be working to gain all the various magics, which in theory would make him a functional god since he would control so much power over Investure that he could rival a Shard's influence. 

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7 hours ago, Penumbra said:

I believe it has been quoted by Sanderson that Hoid specifically refused the shard that was offered. Who knows how that exchange went down though, maybe they offered him a really "bad" Shard. If it was specific that he was offered a shard, I guess he wasn't picking one. Maybe they offered Odium to him, and Hoid was smart enough to pass it along and not turn into ... well, Rayse/Odium.

The Shard offered to Hoid is a Shard yet unseen in the book.

Anyway, from another WoB we know Hoid would be tempted by Endowment.

This could say something both on Hoid's attitude and on his williness to be' Influenced by a Shard's mandate, if the case arose

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