[OB] Oathbringer chapters 22-24

[Frostlander]

On Nightblood, although I've read Warbreaker, I can totally imagine how a reader unfamiliar with Nightblood would be able to slowly discover more as Szeth learns more. Szeth is the non-Warbreaker reader. It's not dissimilar to how we're all learning bits and pieces about Roshar's magic. How much do we really know about voidbinding at this point except that it's weird and dangerous? Plus, non-Warbreaker readers might learn a bit more from Nale, and I have to assume that at some point, a certain ardent will fill in some more gaps. It might actually be fun to unravel Nightblood's mystery as an SA-only reader--speaking as someone who was lukewarm on Warbreaker and finds Nightblood more interesting in SA. 

[Jack33210]

Been a while since a May Aladar mention, went mia right after the 2nd assasinations. Coincidence? I think not.

 

In all seriousness, for whatever reason Mraize's conversation with Shallan completely caught me off guard. I was expecting him to all be "not now" or a little less candid. (albeit only reason for this is from other books)

People have theorized that Kaladin could be Odium's champion for a while now. Heaven forbid that happens, but I could see it happening now with how Kaladin's been interacting with the Parshendi last couple of chapters. Maybe Odium somehow influences Kaladin in someway to eventually get him to that point? Albeit not well versed in that regard to make a good argument. 

I wonder where those Parshendi that escaped from Eshonai are currently. 

Mr. T testing how Dalinar would go about uniting everyone was subtle. I'm surprised Dalinar and company didn't mention that some of the other nations were negotiating with the Parshendi. 

That Dustbringer is making me uncomfortable.

 

[IceBaka]

16 hours ago, Firerust said:

This Tezim guy is bold and intimidating on a very high WOW level. The theory of him being a Herald (specifically Ishar) is one I won't exactly agree with, but won't deny either.

I'm starting to wonder if Tezim is not necessarily a crazy leader, but is rather a figurehead who is propped up by some oligarchy. Or maybe he is a little loony, but the fanaticism is something he's cultivated in followers rather than expressing himself.

Quote

“ ‘A warning,’” Navani read, “ ‘from Tezim the Great, last and first man, Herald of Heralds and bearer of the Oathpact. His grandness, immortality, and power be praised. Lift up your heads and hear, men of the east, of your God’s proclamation.

“ ‘None are Radiant but him. His fury is ignited by your pitiful claims, and your unlawful capture of his holy city is an act of rebellion, depravity, and wickedness. Open your gates, men of the east, to his righteous soldiers and deliver unto him your spoils.

“ ‘Renounce your foolish claims and swear yourselves to him. The judgment of the final storm has come to destroy all men, and only his path will lead to deliverance. He deigns to send you this single mandate, and will not speak it again. Even this is far above what your carnal natures deserve.’ ”

...

“I’d rather have the Emuli anyway,” Navani said. “Their soldiers might be less capable, but they’re also… well, not crazy.”

The message refers to Tezim in the third person. While he could have referred to himself that way, I'm thinking it was actually written by someone else who wants others view Tezim with terror because the message writer knows Tezim is a figurehead or a less-crazy leader who cultivates maniacal worship in his followers.

Navani seems to think Tezim's soldiers are crazy. Maybe it's just the followers that are crazy, not the leader.

Quote

Dalinar said ... "The Tukari scribes keep claiming they will bring my words to their god-king.”

They're not immediately informing their leader about potentially important communications from a foreign nation, almost as if they are keeping him in the dark? This certainly could suggest that the scribes, or someone(s) close to the scribes, are actually in charge.

[WhiteLeeopard]

Honestly, the message from Tezim could have been from WoT Masema nearly word for word if you swap the realmatic words. Thats part of why I laughed so much and loved reading the letter. Good old times.

[maxal]

14 hours ago, DeployParachute said:

You're not alone.  Something has seemed...off to me about the writing in Oathbringer so far.  I can't really put my finger on what it is.  I don't know if it is the serialized format or something else.  Sometimes the actions of many of our actors seems to not fit the characterizations that have been developed for them in the books so far.  Kaladin sometimes doesn't feel like Kaladin to me.  Shallan too.  It feels like the subtlety in their writing has disappeared and has been replaced by exaggerations of the most identifiable personality traits.  Actually, Adolin seems to be the most consistent to me with regards to the previous books, and that's probably because we just haven't spent as much time in his POV. 

I'm hoping that this is a pacing issue that is a combination of the serialized format, and the need to get a lot of "beat points" out during this first book.  I also might just be falling victim to my own high expectations from anticipating this book for so long.  

 

Anyway, my own bit of theory crafting for this set of chapters involves Kaladin and his inevitable arrival at the location where the Listeners are being gathered.  So far, Kaladin, and us as readers, are currently lulled into the security of "knowing" that at any time, he's going to be able to fly out of this mess when things really start to hit the fan.  I don't think this meetup is going to go well for Kaladin, and I think Book 1 is going to end with a major cliff hanger for him with the discovery that he indeed has been lead into a trap, and the voidspren has several contingency plans for dealing with his Nahel bond.  I think Kaladin is the secondary main character that is entirely missing from the Book 2 outline, and that when we finally return to him after a period of time, we're going to see what his reintroduction to captivity has done. 

I am glad to see I am not the only one struggling with the serialization. I am really eager to read certain denouements, but each week I feel they aren't happening and, as thus, it makes me feel as if the story was slow paced. It isn't, not really: I am just more interested into one story arc than others and the format makes it the progression of this story is... slow. 

As for characters, Kaladin reads differently because his story arc focus less on his inner demons and more on what is happening around him which is a change in his narrative. Shallan doesn't seem to know what to do with herself and her new found memories, so I think it accounts for the change of characterization. Before, she was nervous, anxious and eager to make everything work, now she isn't. She is more self-absorbed by her own problems and if she tries to open-up to Adolin, she remains closer on herself. Adolin is very consistent with himself: everything discussed on the character has been made more obvious so far: he is insecure, he is hard-working, he doesn't want to admit weaknesses or failure, he wants to appear strong, he is willing to push himself far to avoid his image to shatter and his relationship with his father is... strained, something not many reader caught on in WoR. His arc is more internal than before, but it is currently suffering from Brandon not giving him viewpoints. Dalinar feels the most changed as his viewpoint speaks solely of Navani, sometimes of Jasnah and Elhokar, never of his sons. The lack in inter-action with his sons is one of my critic: it feels as if Dalinar was given an entirely different narrative, one which happens in Urithiru, but doesn't engage his sons whereas they were very present in the past.

As for how Part 1 will end, I would prefer another ending than the one you suggested. So far, I feel Kaladin's story arc is too much a rehearsing of his story arc back in WoK, so if he ends up captured or trapped, once again, for real, then it will feel too repetitive. So while all climaxes have centered on Kaladin within the books, so far, I would prefer if the Part 1 climax didn't involve him. I am fine with Kaladin taking a decision, sticking to it and to see it unravel instead of him being imprisoned. Since I am yearning for it, my personal wish would be for Part 1 climax to involve the reveal of Adolin as Sadeas's killer and the mayhem which happens next. This has been the one story I want to see unravel and I don't think it will make for a good story telling if Brandon drags it to Part 4. Reality however probably is the climax doesn't involve Adolin, but one is allowed to dream some.

2 hours ago, kari-no-sugata said:

I agree that the serialisation makes a big difference. I'm trying to think back to WoR without intensively re-reading it but I don't think there's much of a change. When we'll have read the whole book I'm sure the experience will be rather different.

The serialisation sure does highlight some things. For example, there's very little "passive" information in the chapters - nearly everything is immediately relevant. This does mean that there's an awful lot of detail that we can only guess at. When we're reading a few chapters a week that "missing" information stands out a lot more, I think, because we have much more time to ponder and argue about it. There's also very little overlap between the different POV characters - we see very little of Shallan and Adolin from Dalinar's POV, and vice-versa. Somewhat like in WoR, Adolin is about the only POV character we get to see quite a lot of from other POV characters. In WoR, there were some early chapters with significant amounts of Dalinar and Kaladin and later on significant amount of Kaladin and Shallan, but I think that'd be less than 10% of the book. I'd be rather surprised if there's nothing similar for OB - we'll just have to wait for it.

Except for Shallan and Adolin, I feel Dalinar's viewpoint is too disconnected from the other characters. I hope they have a get together soon. And I really want something to happen with Adolin, something worth reading 24 chapters with no much happening.

[mariapapadia]

Hah! Moving into a new place and starting a new job really took all of my time these past few weeks, so I am happy this week I had 6 chapters to read instead of 3. And that really made a difference on how I feel the story! I've seen a lot of people complaining about the pace of the story or one thing or another, but having a bigger chunck to read really does change things ! I feel like people are forgeting also, we are quite early in the book. For me WoK picked up somewhere around the middle, but we already had some intense chapters, these weeks.This has been said multiple times, but looking so close into something and hyper-analyzing everything, takes away from the reading experience a bit. I feel like everyone creates certain expectations that of course won't be achieved in 3 chapters per week, so we get dissapointed in what we don't have, instead of looking at the bigger picture. I am sure that once the book is out, reading the first part would be a totally different experience 

The chapter epigraphs are finally giving a bit more clues. Kaladin's arc... hmm, I remember first reading WoK and thinking his chapters were so boring and he was doing the same thing. When I reread the book, it felt like a whole different story. So I am hoping once I have the whole thing in my hands I will enjoy his arc more. I woudn't worry so much, because I don't think it will drag for much longer with teaching parshendi. 

All in all, I don't have much to add, but I'm excited we have less than one month to wait ! 

[Starla]

It seems this week is Kaladin's turn to be in the "Odium's Champion" hot seat, previously occupied by Renarin and Adolin. I'm sure Dalinar, Shallan, Jasnah, Szeth, Eshonai, and a number of others will have their turn. Personally, I don't think any of these will be Odium's Champion. I feel like it is not a human or a Listener. Maybe it's a spren, unmade, or some other supernatural entity.

As for Kaladin hanging out with the parshmen and voidspren (if that's what he/she is), it seems he is on an information gathering session to figure out what the heck is going on. I don't think there is anything more nefarious going on than that, and I don't expect him to fall for some voidspren trap. He and Syl are playing dumb in the hopes to learn more about where everyone is headed and what they plan to do there. Somebody needs to do it and he is the only one in the position to interact with the parshmen right now. Hopefully he'll wrap up his spying mission soon and report his findings back to Dalinar. The sooner everyone knows what's up with the parshmen, the better chance they can prevent a massive voidbinding of the entire species. 

My hope is that Kaladin can bring Rlain in to help these parshmen. They need someone they can trust to teach them how to care for themselves and how to bond regular Listener spren rather than voidspren. Maybe Eshonai will also factor into this.

@WhiteLeeopard I had the same thought that Tezim sounded like Masema. Made me grin when I read it. 

 

Edited October 18, 2017 by Starla
typo

[Nymeros]

After reading previous posts, I must say that I find Oathbringer far superior to WoR and WoK so far even in this serialized format. 

Dalinar's past i find far more engaging than Shallans or Kals and Dalinar is honestly a more compelling lead for Stormlight due to his focus on the big picture. His struggles seem less....petty? Small? He really feels like the lead of the book unlike WoR where Shallan often took a backseat to Kaladin.....

Oathbringer just has a far worse title but that's whatever.

We'll see if my beliefs hold true when the book gets bigger and messier.

[Todesengel]

11 hours ago, dendrophobe said:

Nightblood can do other stuff besides just talk like a spren stuck in sword form. Like eat souls and stuff.

Actually, something interesting about Honorblades, as per Syl's words:

Quote

"With this sword, someone can do what you can, but without the ... checks a spren requires. This sword gave the assassin power to use Lashings, but it also fed upon his Stormlight. A person who uses this will need far, far more Light than you will. Dangerous levels of it." - Syl to Kaladin

Found on http://stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Honorblade

I'm not certain, but I have a feeling that wielding an Honorblade while not a Herald and without Stormlight might, at least in some way, "feed" upon the wielder's soul. Probably not as intense as Nightblood, but at least minimally.

See:

11 hours ago, Nymeros said:

He was created by Sanderson as a failed alien shardblade and was always supposed to be a part of Stormlight. He will be explained in greater detail when it becomes necessary.

And a WoB:

Quote

QUESTION (PARAPHRASED)

Why did you put Nightblood in The Stormlight Archive?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Nightblood and Vasher were in the original version of the Way of Kings before I wrote Warbreaker. Warbreaker in a way was actually introducing those two characters I'd already created.

 

Quoted from http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1069#8

Also:

Quote

QUESTION

If Nightblood were on Roshar would he be a Shardblade?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, they are exactly the same thing. He is a Shardblade that is twisted and is a lot more powerful than normal.

 

Quoted from http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1076#34

 

[Fulminato]

On 17/10/2017 at 8:29 PM, BlackYeti said:

I've been thinking more about Kaladin's conversation with the Voidspren.

Does anyone else think that this sounds suspiciously similar to what that Radiant told Dalinar in his first vision in WoK?

Does anyone else think that this could be our first hint of Voidbinding?

to me strike more similar to this quote of WoR:

In short, if any presume Kazilah to be innocent, you must look at the facts and deny them in their entirety; to say that the Radiants were destitute of integrity for this execution of one their own, one who had obviously fraternized with the unwholesome elements, indicates the most slothful of reasoning; for the enemy’s baleful influence demanded vigilance on all occasions, of war and of peace.

chapter 51 "heirs"

On 18/10/2017 at 0:02 AM, Garglemesh said:

I know that little yellow spren being voidspren is likely and whatnot, but I don't see it being bound to a Listener or anything. We know from their songs that the Listeners are too close to the CR to be of much use to spren:

You talk about voidspren bonding Listeners to give them forms like Stormform, and we hear nothing of spren accompanying them like this. For a spren to gain as much consciousness as this li'l lady has in the PR, something else has to be going on in my opinion. Unless there's voidspren for changing forms and voidspren for becoming evil KR, for which I don't remember seeing any allusions. I think something else is giving her her strong physical connection.

i don't know if this spren ad some resemblance of the spren dalinar saw in the 'purelake vision'

“Riverspren?” the knight asked, stepping up beside him. “It looked like a shadow,” Dalinar said. “Red eyes.”
“It’s here, then,” the knight said. “Sja-anat’s spy. Caeb, run to the checkpoint. The rest of you, keep watching. It won’t be able to go far without a carrier.” She yanked something off her belt, a small pouch. [WoR Chapter 4, "taker of secrets"]

in this case the spren had some mobility, and don't seem need to be a physically contact between him and the 'carrier' for him to move further.

On 18/10/2017 at 2:25 PM, Stark said:

Fair point.  I would have name dropped one of his Skybreakers, who he was training to hunt down and murder proto-Radiants for whatever contrived legality they could come up with if we had one to name drop, but I figured Nale as the patron of the Skybreakers would communicate the point.  But as far as I know, no current Skybreakers have names.  Unless you want to count Szeth, who does not seem to have a nahel-bonded spren yet, who has tried to kill both Kaladin and Dalinar, though that was under orders.

 

But very true, Nale is not technically a Skybreaker any more than Szeth was a Windrunner.

i don't agree, nale was chosen by honor to embodied the concept of justice, and gave him the honorblade to sign the (oath)pact. szeth is a shin warrior who carried jezrien's sword. he don't need to aling his life to the divine duty/attributes of the herald.(he don't lead, and for sure don't protect anyone) the WoR chapter ephigrap 37 state the matching between the temperament of the herald and the behavior of the associated order.

18 hours ago, IceBaka said:

I'm starting to wonder if Tezim is not necessarily a crazy leader, but is rather a figurehead who is propped up by some oligarchy. Or maybe he is a little loony, but the fanaticism is something he's cultivated in followers rather than expressing himself.

The message refers to Tezim in the third person. While he could have referred to himself that way, I'm thinking it was actually written by someone else who wants others view Tezim with terror because the message writer knows Tezim is a figurehead or a less-crazy leader who cultivates maniacal worship in his followers.

Navani seems to think Tezim's soldiers are crazy. Maybe it's just the followers that are crazy, not the leader.

They're not immediately informing their leader about potentially important communications from a foreign nation, almost as if they are keeping him in the dark? This certainly could suggest that the scribes, or someone(s) close to the scribes, are actually in charge.

mraize don't think is a figurehead. his word "This creature in Tukar, however, is different. I’m not convinced he is human. If he is, he’s certainly not of the local species. . . ." [WoR Chapter 54 Veil's lesson]

a very ominous detail, he know the oathpact, if the knowledge of the matter of the radiant is faded in (presumably) two millenia, the information on the herald (four and half millenia ago) are crumble to dust long time ago [and the heralds lie to the people, in the regard of the ending of the desolation], so how he can know this? (there are some player in the SA with that knowledge, true, but they are worldhopper o some ancient being and the herald themself)

[BlackYeti]

47 minutes ago, Fulminato said:

to me strike more similar to this quote of WoR:

In short, if any presume Kazilah to be innocent, you must look at the facts and deny them in their entirety; to say that the Radiants were destitute of integrity for this execution of one their own, one who had obviously fraternized with the unwholesome elements, indicates the most slothful of reasoning; for the enemy’s baleful influence demanded vigilance on all occasions, of war and of peace.

chapter 51 "heirs"

Okay, let's analyse these respective quotes and see what they are saying:

Quote

“Would you fight for us, deserter?” she asked.

“Would I be allowed?”

“My kind aren’t nearly as inclined toward discrimination as yours. If you can carry a spear and take orders, then I certainly wouldn’t turn you away.” She folded her arms, smiling in a strangely knowing way. “The final decision won’t be mine. I am but a messenger.”

Quote

“No words for me, I see,” the knight said. “Very well. But should you wish to put that mysterious training of yours to use, come to Urithiru.”

“Urithiru?” Dalinar said. He’d heard that name somewhere.

“Yes,” the knight said. “I cannot promise you a position in one of the orders—that decision is not mine—but if your skill with the sword is similar to your skill with hearth-tending implements, then I am confident you will find a place with us.”

The Way of Kings - Chapter 19, Starfalls

In the first quote, the Voidspren seems to be saying: "come with us, I can't decide whether you will be allowed to join, but if you can fight, you'll probably be allowed to join us."

In the second quote, the Radiant seems to be saying: "come with us, I can't decide whether you will be allowed to join, but if you can fight, you'll probably be allowed to join us."

Your quote is a historical analysis of an event where a Radiant called Kazilah is executed for fraternising with "unwholesome elements".

I presume you're thinking that Kaladin is in danger of following in Kazilah's footsteps. However, even if that analysis is correct, I don't see how that it is more similar to the Oathbringer quote than the WoK quote when those two are practically identical to each other. Moreover, if your analysis is right, I don't see how it necessarily invalidates my interpretation.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

First and foremost, I pity the fool who doesn't give King T his proper title!

 

Weighing in on the Aviar debate, I'm going to be very disappointed if it is an aviar, strictly for personal reasons. I asked Brandon on Goodreads about the Middlefest Chicken Shallan runs into. If I asked about the wrong chicken Shallan runs into in the wrong book...that's just plain wrong. 

 

I do have a couple theories moving forward. I'm going to put them in a spoiler tag, just in case. 

 

On Ialai and Sadea's murder

Spoiler

First theory is on the murderer. Ialai knows it's Adolin. The entire meeting was a front. The side murders are a front set up by Ialai to throw Adolin off balance. I don't know why she's playing that angle yet, but I'm pretty sure she's playing it. 

On the Listeners with Kaladin

Spoiler

Kaladin is going to have some sort of battle with the voidspren's champion, though I doubt it will be a physical one, more of a battle for their souls. This will eventually lead to a recruitment of the parshmen into greater Urithuru.

On King T

Spoiler

He will absolutely set up a rival Knights Radiant and Odium's champion will come out of that. Dalinar is meant to Unite both Listener and Human, and will be uniting them against the threat that King T will create with Odium manipulating him. 

 

[Fulminato]

15 hours ago, BlackYeti said:

Okay, let's analyse these respective quotes and see what they are saying:

In the first quote, the Voidspren seems to be saying: "come with us, I can't decide whether you will be allowed to join, but if you can fight, you'll probably be allowed to join us."

In the second quote, the Radiant seems to be saying: "come with us, I can't decide whether you will be allowed to join, but if you can fight, you'll probably be allowed to join us."

Your quote is a historical analysis of an event where a Radiant called Kazilah is executed for fraternising with "unwholesome elements".

I presume you're thinking that Kaladin is in danger of following in Kazilah's footsteps. However, even if that analysis is correct, I don't see how that it is more similar to the Oathbringer quote than the WoK quote when those two are practically identical to each other. Moreover, if your analysis is right, I don't see how it necessarily invalidates my interpretation.

the situation are similar because both the windrunner and the yellow (void)spreen aren't in charge of the operation, so both defer to other to make the final decision.

but (i think) the position offer to 'dalinar' and kaladin are quite different. we don't know how the orders inner structure works and the process to undergo for joining an order, at least the process for 'normal' people, how don't show any surgebind ability, we know the 'squire' role, but the proposition made to dalinar hint a more vast and complex situation, in the purelake vision only a couple of man show to drew stormlight, and dalinar impersonates a some sort of new recluit. the offer make to kaladin is more "defect your army and join ours and we allow you to live"

Edited October 20, 2017 by Fulminato

[Pattern]

On 18.10.2017 at 10:30 PM, StormingTexan said:

I actually think a group discussion on just a few chapters at a time is fun and it really makes me think of things differently. Plus it is kinda fun just seeing how wrong we are about things and increases my respect for Brandon in his ability to keep us guessing.

I totally agree. It's nearly sad that the rest of the book probably won't get such detailed discussion, because it really is fun.

Perhaps we can do a reread after binge reading Oathbringer for the rest of the book. Three chapters a week seems the perfect amount for discussing. Though a lot of questions that arise in a serialized release will be already answered by later chapters.

[gruntle]

“I can give you the whole bunker,” the merchant said. “Was supposed to be renting it to some caravans out of Revolar, but they didn’t show.”

“What happened?”

“Don’t know,” he said. “But it’s storming strange, I’d say. Three caravans, with different masters and goods, all gone silent. Not even a runner to give me word. Glad I took ten percent up front.”

Might this indicate that the yellow spren orchestrated the death of the three caravans, to ensure that the stormbunker would be available for kaladin and the parshmen.

[StormingTexan]

5 hours ago, gruntle said:

“I can give you the whole bunker,” the merchant said. “Was supposed to be renting it to some caravans out of Revolar, but they didn’t show.”

“What happened?”

“Don’t know,” he said. “But it’s storming strange, I’d say. Three caravans, with different masters and goods, all gone silent. Not even a runner to give me word. Glad I took ten percent up front.”

Might this indicate that the yellow spren orchestrated the death of the three caravans, to ensure that the stormbunker would be available for kaladin and the parshmen.

Possible. I kind of assumed it was other Listener groups gathering supplies like the grain and ships. 

[What's a Seawolf?]

6 hours ago, Pattern said:

I totally agree. It's nearly sad that the rest of the book probably won't get such detailed discussion, because it really is fun.

Perhaps we can do a reread after binge reading Oathbringer for the rest of the book. Three chapters a week seems the perfect amount for discussing. Though a lot of questions that arise in a serialized release will be already answered by later chapters.

I would love to see an every few chapters discussion thread as well.  I'm not sure if I could contain myself from blitzing through the whole book, but I really am going to miss these weekly discussions.

[WhiteLeeopard]

7 hours ago, gruntle said:

“I can give you the whole bunker,” the merchant said. “Was supposed to be renting it to some caravans out of Revolar, but they didn’t show.”

“What happened?”

“Don’t know,” he said. “But it’s storming strange, I’d say. Three caravans, with different masters and goods, all gone silent. Not even a runner to give me word. Glad I took ten percent up front.”

Might this indicate that the yellow spren orchestrated the death of the three caravans, to ensure that the stormbunker would be available for kaladin and the parshmen.

My first thought was that whatever silence is going on with Kholinar was happening accross other large Alethi cities.

[Khyrindor]

On 10/19/2017 at 11:13 PM, Pattern said:

I totally agree. It's nearly sad that the rest of the book probably won't get such detailed discussion, because it really is fun.

Perhaps we can do a reread after binge reading Oathbringer for the rest of the book. Three chapters a week seems the perfect amount for discussing. Though a lot of questions that arise in a serialized release will be already answered by later chapters.

I plan on taking notes similar to how many do on these threads while I read, and then when I read the next chapters I'll comment on how wrong I was. I'll probably upload it at the end of my read and hopefully, I get more out of it that way. I'm also going to read it with a friend a bit slower than we normally would so that we can have some discussion time every several chapters.

Just some ideas I had. Figure I'll try it out and see how it goes.

 

[ParadoxicalZen]

1 hour ago, Rider of Storms said:

I'm also going to read it with a friend a bit slower than we normally would so that we can have some discussion time every several chapters.

Just some ideas I had. Figure I'll try it out and see how it goes.

 

I wish i had more friends to do this with, but mine haven't read Brandon Sanderson nor do they read often as they're either working or gaming.

[Khyrindor]

2 hours ago, ParadoxicalZen said:

I wish i had more friends to do this with, but mine haven't read Brandon Sanderson nor do they read often as they're either working or gaming.

I've infected practically my whole town with Sanderson. 

[Cosmere nerd]

I know this isn't specifically about these chapters, but it keeps nagging at me. Is there a possibility that the listeners are not actually voidbringers and that their gods are? Because they break the treaty just because gavilar is talking about bringing back their gods, and that terrifies them so much that they would rather break of their treaty after less than an hour. So what if their gods are the voidbringers and the listeners are enslaved to them? Does that make sense or is it just me?

[Agent34]

4 hours ago, Cosmere nerd said:

I know this isn't specifically about these chapters, but it keeps nagging at me. Is there a possibility that the listeners are not actually voidbringers and that their gods are? Because they break the treaty just because gavilar is talking about bringing back their gods, and that terrifies them so much that they would rather break of their treaty after less than an hour. So what if their gods are the voidbringers and the listeners are enslaved to them? Does that make sense or is it just me?

Their gods are the Unmade which I imagine are separate to voidbringers. Listeners IMO aren't voidbringers on their own, prior to the Shards' arrival they were just the native Rosharans, it's Odium's influence that makes them voidbringers.

[dvoraen]

4 minutes ago, Agent34 said:

Their gods are the Unmade which I imagine are separate to voidbringers. Listeners IMO aren't voidbringers on their own, prior to the Shards' arrival they were just the native Rosharans, it's Odium's influence that makes them voidbringers.

Honestly, I think the term Voidbringer has become quite the misnomer, in terms of to whom it applies.  I think it's meant to apply towards anyone/-thing that utilizes the art of Voidbinding -- hello the Unmade, 'possessed' listeners in their forms of power, and quite likely humans -- not strictly just the listeners in specific forms.  It's pretty clear that the listeners at Narak were not antagonistic before the bonding of Voidspren began.  (I seriously hope one of the interludes is Venli thinking back on how things got to where they are now.)

 

Heck, for all we know the Unmade were originally called the Voidbringers before they effectively exploited the listener race.

Edited October 22, 2017 by dvoraen

[scifan]

On 10/18/2017 at 10:05 PM, Todesengel said:

QUESTION

If Nightblood were on Roshar would he be a Shardblade?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, they are exactly the same thing. He is a Shardblade that is twisted and is a lot more powerful than normal.

Wait... Shardblades are "dead" spren. If Nightblood's exactly the same thing as a shard blade, then by definition, he's a spren. 

But he's not "dead"... so I'm so confused...