Jump to content

Hoid will become the new Adonalsium


Recommended Posts

I have always thought (since reading Oathbringer) that Dalinar will become the new Adonalsium, as part of his "Unite Them" calling.  I think he will first unite all of Roshar, and then unite all the Rosharan shards (taking up Honor, Cultivation and maybe also Odium), and then will eventually unite all the shards in the cosmere and reform Adonalsium.

My problem with Hoid becoming Adonalsium is that he is kind of an anti-hero, and becoming a powerful god doesn't really seem in his nature from what we've seen of him.  

On 10/15/2017 at 0:16 PM, Toaster Retribution said:

But he didn´t take a Shard, probably because he didn´t want to be consumed by an intent. This is where we reach the most speculation-heavy part: Hoid wanted a new Adonalsium all along. We know that the sixteen felt a dire need to shatter Adonalsium, so things can´t really have been awesome on Yolen before the Shattering. I think that Hoid found Adonalsium a bad ruler/god/whatever. But at the same time, he feels that there is a need for someone to rule the Cosmere. And he thinks that he himself will do the best job. Hoid manipulated the Vessels to shatter Adonalsium in order to be able to reforge it, and rule the Cosmere, and becoming a great king/god, which would benefit everyone.

I am not sure if Hoid wanted to reforge Adonalsium from the beginning, although it's an interesting idea.  I have always imagined Hoid trying to talk all the other Shards out of murdering Adonalsium, and then sort of shaking his head shamefully in the background as he watches them ignore his advice.  It is difficult for me to imagine Hoid becoming a powerful leader figure and reforging Adonalsium at the end of the cosmere.  Whenever we see Hoid, he is surrounded by important people but he himself is not in a position of authority - the King's Wit in Stormlight is the perfect example of this.  Hoid is dealing with powerful people and meddling in their affairs to slyly accomplish his goals, but he is not a powerful or authoritative person himself.  But then again... the more we learn about Hoid, the more we learn that he really is a serious and concerned person, who is actively trying to shape the events of the future, and not just playing tricks and causing mischief (which is how he seems at first glance).  

I can see Dalinar or Sazed becoming Adonalsium, but not Hoid so much.  But maybe that's just because we don't know his character extremely well yet - perhaps the more we learn about him, the more it will seem natural for him to assume a position of power and authority in the cosmere.  

I can see Hoid slipping in at the very last minute, and altering the events at the end of the cosmere so that the shards of Adonalsium fall into different hands than they otherwise would have, or subverting the conclusion in some surprising way, but it's difficult to imagine him actually becoming Adonalsium himself. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is Hoid fertile? I like to think he is gathering investiture in case a form of it/or the people that use it gets wiped out completely due to shard conflict. 

He could then spread the seed to get it going again providing a bit of the shard is still around 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember reading a summary of the Liar of Partinel, so if I get this wrong please forgive me, but I remember it states that he lost his master, and took his name. I think it's possible that Wit's master may have been the "Vessel" (not sure how the labeling for Adonalsium goes) for Adonalsium. 

He may be trying to gather the Investiture of all the shards in an attempt to restore the power and bring him back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought this was pretty obvious (this is a common story route i've seen for authors with their pet character) but i sincerely hope this isn't the case and Hoid is acting more of personal grudges/motivation than becoming a new god because that would be alot more interesting.

That type of story rarely works out IMO

Edited by goody153
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
On 12/9/2017 at 3:55 PM, NotBurtReynolds said:

Instead of echo, I was going to say a Remainder of some sort after the Division(Shattering) of Adonalsium.

What if Hoid is effectively the cognitive shadow of Adonalsium, but somehow has a more complete physical form than, say, the Stormfather? It'd theoretically be possible since he existed before the Shattering.

On 12/21/2017 at 5:11 AM, dgenio8 said:

I can't read it like that. Every time I read an Hoid/Wit section in any Cosmere book I get this distinct feeling that becoming the vessel of Adonalsium is not is goal. Is he trying to reforge it? Rebuild a major shard after realizing the mess that powerful beings drivien by pure intents are doing to the Cosmere? Yes, that feels correct to me. But I think Hoid doesn't want to hold the power, doesn't want the responsibility and ultimately, I not even sure someone will need to.

Yeah, I have to say it doesn't seem in-character for Hoid to actually take up the mantle of Adonalsium himself rather than slyly groom someone else to do so and do all the work to make the mechanics possible. I would be more surprised if he weren't trying to reforge Adonalsium or something similar than if he were, but I'm not certain it's as simple as a power grab, else why would he have not taken a Shard to begin with? (Especially if, as someone suggested, it were possible for him to take and hide it without exactly bonding to it and becoming influenced by its intent.)

On 5/8/2018 at 0:37 AM, Llarimar said:

I have always thought (since reading Oathbringer) that Dalinar will become the new Adonalsium, as part of his "Unite Them" calling.  I think he will first unite all of Roshar, and then unite all the Rosharan shards (taking up Honor, Cultivation and maybe also Odium), and then will eventually unite all the shards in the cosmere and reform Adonalsium.

...

I am not sure if Hoid wanted to reforge Adonalsium from the beginning, although it's an interesting idea.  I have always imagined Hoid trying to talk all the other Shards out of murdering Adonalsium, and then sort of shaking his head shamefully in the background as he watches them ignore his advice.

Dalinar is an interesting speculation. Certainly if some Rosharan human were to become the next Adonalsium, a Bondsmith would make sense. Or perhaps, at the very least, a Bondsmith's power is necessary for the process. We have, after all, seen in Oathbringer

Spoiler

that Odium tells Dalinar he has the authority to bind Odium to the proposed contest of champions specifically because Dalinar is a Bondsmith. Apparently there is something about the nature of the Bondsmith that enables a person to bind even Shards (or Vessels?). Certainly, things seem to be shaping up to make it a possibility that Dalinar acquires the power to bind Splinters of a Shard back together to reforge it. And perhaps it should not be surprising that humans might possess this possibility through the various happenings of Cosmere history since they apparently originate on the same world as Adonalsium in the first place.

I agree that I would find Hoid participating in the Shattering unlikely. He seems so far to be the type of person to give advice and then roll his eyes when no one takes it. I suppose that'd be an altogether appropriate personality for a god figure, but I still don't think he wants to be Adonalsium. The one way I'd buy him participating would be if the Shattering were in part Adonalsium's idea, even if it was not a self-caused event.

On 5/8/2018 at 0:21 PM, Thunderclast said:

I remember reading a summary of the Liar of Partinel, so if I get this wrong please forgive me, but I remember it states that he lost his master, and took his name. I think it's possible that Wit's master may have been the "Vessel" (not sure how the labeling for Adonalsium goes) for Adonalsium.

Oooooh it would be so fascinating if Adonalsium were the original Hoid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Honor's Radiance said:

What if Hoid is effectively the cognitive shadow of Adonalsium, but somehow has a more complete physical form than, say, the Stormfather? It'd theoretically be possible since he existed before the Shattering.

Unlikely, as Hoid was offered a Shard. 

Quote

The Only Joe (paraphrased)

Was Hoid offered one of the Shards we know about?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

You know, I can't remember which Shards I've shown you, Wait, no I haven't shown you that one.

source

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Honor's Radiance said:

What if Hoid is effectively the cognitive shadow of Adonalsium, but somehow has a more complete physical form than, say, the Stormfather? It'd theoretically be possible since he existed before the Shattering.

This doesn't really make sense. If Hoid didn't exist pre-shattering he could theoretically be a shadow of Adonalsium. The fact he existed pre-shattering means he cannot be this.

Quote

Yeah, I have to say it doesn't seem in-character for Hoid to actually take up the mantle of Adonalsium himself rather than slyly groom someone else to do so and do all the work to make the mechanics possible. I would be more surprised if he weren't trying to reforge Adonalsium or something similar than if he were, but I'm not certain it's as simple as a power grab, else why would he have not taken a Shard to begin with? (Especially if, as someone suggested, it were possible for him to take and hide it without exactly bonding to it and becoming influenced by its intent.)

It is unlikely Hoid could take and hide a shard without bonding it. That is a lot of investiture the only way I see it could be easily moved is by taking it. More than likely Hoid was aware of the shardic intents and did not want to be corrupted by them. Similar to Odium now. I can see Hoid taking up the power to try to gain enough power for his goal. I don't think his goal is to become Adonalsium but that level of power might be necessary.  

Quote

Dalinar is an interesting speculation. Certainly if some Rosharan human were to become the next Adonalsium, a Bondsmith would make sense. Or perhaps, at the very least, a Bondsmith's power is necessary for the process. We have, after all, seen in Oathbringer

The powers of the Bondsmiths work on fundamentals of the cosmere. Dalinar can manipulate connection which may make it easier to take a new shard. It wouldn't be necessary as others in the cosmere have similar abilities.

Quote
Spoiler

that Odium tells Dalinar he has the authority to bind Odium to the proposed contest of champions specifically because Dalinar is a Bondsmith. Apparently there is something about the nature of the Bondsmith that enables a person to bind even Shards (or Vessels?). Certainly, things seem to be shaping up to make it a possibility that Dalinar acquires the power to bind Splinters of a Shard back together to reforge it. And perhaps it should not be surprising that humans might possess this possibility through the various happenings of Cosmere history since they apparently originate on the same world as Adonalsium in the first place.

I agree that I would find Hoid participating in the Shattering unlikely. He seems so far to be the type of person to give advice and then roll his eyes when no one takes it. I suppose that'd be an altogether appropriate personality for a god figure, but I still don't think he wants to be Adonalsium. The one way I'd buy him participating would be if the Shattering were in part Adonalsium's idea, even if it was not a self-caused event.

I could see Hoid participating. There were events unfolding that we do not understand. WoB is that Hoid kind of agreed it was necessary. Hoid is not a good man. Hoid has said he will watch the world burn to accomplish his goal. The goal which seems to primarily be vengeance.

Edited by Fatikis
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On May 7, 2018 at 4:15 AM, dantlee said:

I think the new short story “The Traveler” adds some more (circumstantial) evidence that this is indeed what Hoid is trying to do. 

I made a super long post about "The Traveler," and virtually dissected it sentence-by-sentence...

Edit:  All of the posts between dantlee's and mine literally just loaded, so sorry about that. 

 

A new theory based off of some of the things that were just said above...

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/93-odysseycon-2016/#e3239

In the link above, it's a WoB of Brandon saying that it would be possible for Kelsier, as a Cognitive Shadow, to Nahel bond to another person. If Adonalsium was a sentient being, I believe that he, in death, became a Cognitive Shadow. What if Adonalsium Nahel bonded, or did something similar, to Hoid? That would make Hoid some sort of weird Yolish-Cognitive-Shadow-Radiant-Something, which would be extremely interesting.

A bit far-fetched, but I've learned through my Cosmere experience that Sanderson can justify pretty much any type of crazy magic, so...

Edited by Ashspren
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Ashspren said:

A new theory based off of some of the things that were just said above...

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/93-odysseycon-2016/#e3239

In the link above, it's a WoB of Brandon saying that it would be possible for Kelsier, as a Cognitive Shadow, to Nahel bond to another person. If Adonalsium was a sentient being, I believe that he, in death, became a Cognitive Shadow. What if Adonalsium Nahel bonded, or did something similar, to Hoid? That would make Hoid some sort of weird Yolish-Cognitive-Shadow-Radiant-Something, which would be extremely interesting.

A bit far-fetched, but I've learned through my Cosmere experience that Sanderson can justify pretty much any type of crazy magic, so...

This is actually what I believe. Hoid in stormlight calls himself Gibletish. Giblets being the parts left of a bird that no one wants. Hoid is also somehow bound to be unable to directly harm others.I don't think Hoid's true goal is to reform Adonalsium, but I do think he may have bonded Adon's shadow.

Edited by Fatikis
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Fatikis said:

This is actually what I believe. Hoid in stormlight calls himself Gibletish. Giblets being the parts left of a bird that no one wants. Hoid is also somehow bound to be unable to directly harm others.I don't think Hoid's true goal is to reform Adonalsium, but I do think he may have bonded Adon's shadow.

Yes! Finally, someone who doesn’t think my theories are insane! :P

My question is what kind of bond this forms. Is it a Nahel Bond, or something we haven’t learned about yet?

Also, has anyone else realized how much Nahel sounds like Zahel?

...that was excessive. I’ll go now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WoBs to the rescue

1 hour ago, Ashspren said:

My question is what kind of bond this forms. Is it a Nahel Bond, or something we haven’t learned about yet?

Quote

Blightsong

Could Kelsier theoretically bond with someone on Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

source

 

1 hour ago, Ashspren said:

Also, has anyone else realized how much Nahel sounds like Zahel?

Quote

Kythis

The name 'Zahel' and 'nahel bonds' are both very similar so is it just coincidental or is it part of . . . ?

Brandon Sanderson

It is part of the linguistics.  They are based off of similar suffixes.  They're actually the same suffix I believe.  

source

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
On 1/14/2018 at 11:53 PM, TheHeadHancho said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Oathbringer spoiler ahead (minor):

can I just mention that Hoid as Wit was clearly shown using sand mastery in oathbringer. Shallan sees him using colored powder for storytelling, mistakes it for lightweaving, sees him drink thirstily from a flask (as the power drains his total water supply), and describes his magic as more natural.

 

It has been confirmed that was not Sand Mastery. The vial was for Allomancy, and the dust/sand thing is a pre-Shattering form of Investiture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 11 months later...
7 hours ago, Hoid/Wit said:

Hoid as the new Adonalsium sounds terrifying, he is not the type of person that should be in charge, nor do I think he would want to be.

 

 

FYI, this post is over a year old. In general, if you have new thoughts about a subject, you'll want to start a new thread explaining it all, rather than "necroing" an old thread like this :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, RShara said:

FYI, this post is over a year old. In general, if you have new thoughts about a subject, you'll want to start a new thread explaining it all, rather than "necroing" an old thread like this :)

Isn't this counter to the site rules?  I mean, I totally get it for really old threads that are outdated by new books/WoBs (e.g. this Ashyn thread).  But I don't think that this is one of those threads.  

 

Quote

On that same note, don't bring back topics that have been dead forever. This is called thread necromancy (or simply "necroing"). If after a long time you post something new in a topic--one whose discussion has long since ended--that would be thread necroing. We're going to be more lenient about this on the Brandon Sanderson forums, because if you have something to add in the "Mistborn Movie Casting" topic and there hasn't been a post there in a great while, why shouldn't you? You're adding something to the discussion, that's fantastic! A lot of the Books forums will have theory threads, and if you have something to add to them which just perfectly fits the topic, better to revive a dead thread, right?

Thread necroing is only bad in a case like this: let's say Mi'chelle and Josh post in General Discussion saying "We're married!" in a few months. Members will congratulate them, but what you don't want to do is post three months later a congratulation. The sentiment's nice, but at the same time, the news is outdated. Your post is itself outdated, which means it didn't really need to be said. It was superfluous and there was no need for you to post it. Does that make sense? That's why most forums hate thread necromancy, because it's superfluous posting. Essentially, spamming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Chaos locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...