Mid-Range Game 25: Lowborn Intrigue

[BrightnessRadiant]

Okay, I'm here this cycle. I was a bit busy last one. As Joe said, I didn't even read my pm with him or anyone who pm'd me until almost the end of cycle. Apologies everyone who pm'd me, I'll try to answer you next night cycle.

I just did a quick read through of both cycles, and as usual don't have much suspicion for the day 1 lynch. I did find Straw's comment about the elims all having secret roles, a bit strange, but he probably just misunderstood the rules. I tend to get suspicious of Straw a lot at the beginning of games, and I find that I'm usually wrong.

Curious as to why Joe would vote Jon for doing a role swap when he offered as well. I mean, technically, waiting for a few messages and then offering a role swap could still be viewed as suspicious. (I mean, it was all done in night zero) Actually, more so because elims tend to be more cautious than anyone:P.

Also, @StrikerEZ I know right? I still want the gun xD. Then I can get the storms out of this rotting bridge duty, among dirty stinky men. xD (I may or may not have been used to better things...maybe I just pretend to be) xD 

Since these cycles go pretty quickly, I'll put my vote down now and try to keep up with the rest of the cycle to see if I should change it. A Joe In The Bridgecrew

Edited October 24, 2017 by BrightnessRadiant

[A Joe in the Bush]

2 hours ago, randuir said:

I'll probably have a bigger post up in a couple of hours, but I just wanted to but in on the current trend to vote Jondesu based on him offering a role-swap right off the bat. Both Joe and Walin offered to do role-swaps with me. Walin in his first Pm to me, but Joe in a more pushy way by immediately revealing his role to me without first checking if I wanted to do a swap, which could be a tactic to try and guilt me into revealing my own role. Both these offers came after I'd posted in the thread that I recommend extreme caution whit sharing roles with others this game.

What I'm trying to say here is that Jondesu offering to do a role-swap isn't a unique occurrence, and the fact that he didn't include his alignment seems quite reasonable for the reasons he apparently stated. Of course, I don't have access to the PM between Joe and Jondesu, so it could quite easily be that Jondesu said some other things that made Joe suspicious. However, with the information currently shared I don't really see a reason to vote on Jondesu, and I'm quite surprised how quickly some other people voted on him.

I am revealing my role pretty much willy nilly, because i am against PM Safety in general. 

I am voting for Jondesu more because of how he phrased his alignment. It sounded like he was uncomfortable saying he was a villager to me. That followed by the roleswap is what is making me vote for him.

I interest of hinestly, i have already roleawapped with 3 people. 

[BrightnessRadiant]

That could've just been because he didn't feel like calling the ever hated "I'm a villager".

[Walin]

I’m realizing that I didn’t PM as many people as I should have, especially considering that I want to increase Night activity. If anyone wants to trade roles with me, they’ll learn that it’s not because I’m an eliminator. Probably shouldn’t have said that above paragraph...

Anyway, a response RP to Lemonelon:

Nerkel washed his gear. He was bruised after his “arm-wrestle” with Ellenie, who slammed his arm down on a table, then proceeded to punch him in the face and kick him in tge gut. A fight broke out, and he got away before he got caught up in the Thrill, thankfully. He never trusted himself with the Thrill; it was like he could kill a person. That was why he used to work as a lumberman, not a soldier. He passed the time thinking of a few jokes, but he couldn’t make any that were funny to anyone but him.

 

[Jondesu]

Woah, woah, woah. I literally got a PM from Joe, asked if he wanted to role trade or something else, he said he wanted to wait, I left it at that. Now I’m accruing votes just from him saying that was suspicious. I did one other role trade, and the other player initiated it with me. I don’t think any of this should be making appear so suspicious.

[Walin]

I offered to role trade early with a couple people too. I think it would be more suspicious to say you’re a villager right off the bat than to remain strangely silent, myself.

Speaking of which, since it’s easier to just post it here instead of sending 15 more PM’s, is anyone willing to trade roles and maybe ask a favor so I can call one in late game?

[DeTess]

1 hour ago, Jondesu said:

Woah, woah, woah. I literally got a PM from Joe, asked if he wanted to role trade or something else, he said he wanted to wait, I left it at that. Now I’m accruing votes just from him saying that was suspicious. I did one other role trade, and the other player initiated it with me. I don’t think any of this should be making appear so suspicious.

Okay. Falsely accusing someone and forcing a he-said, she-said situation backed up with a little bandwagon is a classic elim tactic...for the final cycle, not for C1. I honestly have some trouble seeing why elim!@A Joe in the Bush would do something this risky this early. It makes slightly more sense if this is an attempt by elim!Jondesu to try and save his hide, but even then there's plenty of holes in the story.

Has anyone else had any offers for a role-trade from either Joe or Jondesu?

[Jondesu]

8 minutes ago, randuir said:

Okay. Falsely accusing someone and forcing a he-said, she-said situation backed up with a little bandwagon is a classic elim tactic...for the final cycle, not for C1. I honestly have some trouble seeing why elim!@A Joe in the Bush would do something this risky this early. It makes slightly more sense if this is an attempt by elim!Jondesu to try and save his hide, but even then there's plenty of holes in the story.

Has anyone else had any offers for a role-trade from either Joe or Jondesu?

It’s not exactly a false accusation. I did ask him if he wanted to role trade, which he hadn’t mentioned when he PM’d me, but it wasn’t anything more than that. I don’t get why he’s decided that it was so suspicious (especially since he then came back and agreed, but I didn’t see the message until rollover). I also don’t get the bandwagon, which I don’t think is likely Elims piling on, but I don’t understand the reasoning either. I’ve had a bad run of basically meaningless lynches, so maybe the Elims are trying to get me again since I seem to accrue suspicion so easily?

[DeTess]

1 minute ago, Jondesu said:

It’s not exactly a false accusation. I did ask him if he wanted to role trade, which he hadn’t mentioned when he PM’d me, but it wasn’t anything more than that. I don’t get why he’s decided that it was so suspicious (especially since he then came back and agreed, but I didn’t see the message until rollover). I also don’t get the bandwagon, which I don’t think is likely Elims piling on, but I don’t understand the reasoning either. I’ve had a bad run of basically meaningless lynches, so maybe the Elims are trying to get me again since I seem to accrue suspicion so easily?

Ah, apologies. From what you've written it seemed to me like you where saying Joe was the one to ask for a role-trade. That really confused me as it seemed to indicate someone was making an extremely aggressive play in C1.

[Hemalurgic Headshot]

I’m just posting to say that I am existing, but I don’t have the time for a full post right now.

But it does seem like this is going to be a very PM game, doesn’t it?

[A Joe in the Bush]

Popping on to say that Jondesu's response settles my suspicion enough to make him less suspicious than before.

(StrikerEZ, your response also satisfied me, you're back down to no read)

At this point i don't have any suspicions, and i might not be online for long enough to make a post until night 1, since we actually have a busy day at work.

[DeTess]

So as it currently stands, and barring any vote manipulation, Jondesu is going to be the one to get lynched. I don't particularly like that lynch,e specially since the way Straw and Striker jumped on it makes me suspect at least one of them is an elim trying to get a bandwagon rolling. In fact, Striker's vote is the most bandwagony of the two, and it might be a ploy by elim!striker to get back into village!Joe's good books by following his lead in voting.

vote tally:

Jondesu(2): StrikerEZ, Straw, Joe

Joe(1): BR

BR(1): The Unremarkable mob

Striker(1): Randuir

At the moment a single vote manipulator could significantly change the current distribution of votes, but I'm not convinced enough of anyone's innocence for that to bother me enough to try and solidify one of the other votes instead of adding Striker to the list.

Edit: also @Darkness_ and @Sami, neither of you have posted yet. Though it is still early, you might have some unique insights that would be valuable to share with the rest of us (or just a "hello, I'm not inactive" is fine too for now).

Edited October 24, 2017 by randuir

[Straw]

7 hours ago, Roadwalker said:

Before  I vote, @Straw by your comment last cycle, did you mean to say that all of the eliminators have hidden/secret roles, or that we just do not know what roles they have from the list?

The latter.

I will be changing my vote from Jondesu to Joe. Joe seems to have participated in far more role swapping, which only helps the Elims. Additionally, there is the possibility that Joe is an Elim, and thus engaging inrole swapping will benefit him. 

[DrakeMarshall]

Sigh I want more time to think...

W/e I'm gonna just type my thoughts up on my phone. The last time I second guessed myself I regreted it.

So. Some random things:

Rand- just being Rand, I don't feel I have a read. He made his customary analysis of roles.

Straw- made a kinda wierd comment... But I'm in the same place as BR where I've been wrong about them too many times. Also Straw swapped votes, but I'm not sure what that means yet.

Jondesu... idk. The bandwagon on him was kind of alarming. I don't know what he said in PM though. Could be lynchworthy, but idk.

Joe... His accusation seems sort of wierd given how quickly he backed off it.

Hmmmm I kinda agree with Rand that Striker's vote seemed the most bandwagon-y.

So... What to do now?

I'm thinking I'd either lynch Striker or Joe.

I'm gonn go with... Joe for now.

I'll check back at some point before the end of the cycle, but for now, peace out folks. When I'm back at a computer maybe I can start up some proper RP.

[Jondesu]

I was waiting to make sure I wasn't just doing this out of annoyance or as a reflex, but I do indeed think that Joe was trying to get me lynched intentionally.  I can't imagine any other good reason for the sequence of events that just happened.

[Sparkrunner]

The Only Joe for, as the Marshall of Drakeface put it, backing off too quickly.

[Walin]

The same guy who convinced me to not bluff as an eliminator made the point that every time a lynch happens C1, it never ends well. Why should we go through the ordeal of bandwagon lynching a random person, when statistically they turn out a villager? The evidence against everyone is weak enough to be explained as inattention or carelessness, not a Freudian slip.

"But [villagers], we're not going to be this kind of [standard SE player]. [Lynches] in [early cycles], killing a [quick theorizer] because we find [them suspicious], telling ourselves it's for the good of the [village].If I [vote against] a [SE player], I'm going to do it [with hard evidence], and I'm going to do it only because [the eliminators are encroaching and there's nothing left to do]." -WoR page 1216, [me] talking to [the rest of the MR25 bridgemen]

Edited October 24, 2017 by Walin
Took out a mistaken sentence that was in a different paragraph of the book

[DeTess]

You are correct that an elim is rarely lynched c1, @Walin. However, most games without a C1 lynch tend to go in favor of the elims in my experience. The reason for that is that even a mis-lynch grants information, while a no-lynch gives almost no info, depending on the discussion. The less info the village gets, the easier things for the elims are.

For example, if Joe proves to be innocent, I'll take another look at the votes on him that happened after the third. If Jondesu dies at a later point then information can be gained by looking at what happened this cycle. If we'd just decided to leave the lynch alone for a cycle than all this info would be non-existent, and finding hard evidence later would be much more difficult.

Of course, you don't have to vote C1 if you don't have suspicions, but lynch discussion should occur, because otherwise information flows and discussion just grinds to a halt.

Edited October 24, 2017 by randuir

[Walin]

@randuir Makes sense; I’ll avoid voting until a little later. I will try to tie up the votes near the end of this cycle; I’ll vote on whoever has the second-most votes.

[A Joe in the Bush]

4 hours ago, Straw said:

The latter.

I will be changing my vote from Jondesu to Joe. Joe seems to have participated in far more role swapping, which only helps the Elims. Additionally, there is the possibility that Joe is an Elim, and thus engaging inrole swapping will benefit him. 

 

3 hours ago, Drake Marshall said:

Sigh I want more time to think...

Joe... His accusation seems sort of wierd given how quickly he backed off it.

I'm gonn go with... Joe for now.

 

3 hours ago, Jondesu said:

I was waiting to make sure I wasn't just doing this out of annoyance or as a reflex, but I do indeed think that Joe was trying to get me lynched intentionally.  I can't imagine any other good reason for the sequence of events that just happened.

 

3 hours ago, Roadwalker said:

The Only Joe for, as the Marshall of Drakeface put it, backing off too quickly.

Slightly irritated that i'm being lynched early on again, but have a defense anyway.

There seem to be 3 main arguments against me. 1. I voted for jondesu for roleswapping despite doing the same thing. 2 roleswapping, and 3. Retracting my vote.

In my defense: 1. Yes, i voted for Jondesu because he offered a roleswap at the firat oportunity he had. I only roleswapped with people after i had talked to them, and gotten a better feel for how they were playing. I at least tried to make sure i wasn't talking to an eliminator before i offered to swap. Jondesu did not.

2. I have been role swapping. Partially this is because i am an Eavesdropper, and a conversation I had with Lopen indiciates that Eavesdroppers are mostly useless unless there are a lot of PM's. He laughingly wished me good luck in actually eaveadropping on anything important. So i went into these PM's knowing my role was fairly useless, poisoned or not. I tried to gather info so that i could actually be effective, so that i could coordinate with people.

3, Oh no! I retracted my Vote on Jondesu after he defended himself! Heaven forbid we actually listen to the people we're accusing. I explained why i was suspicious of him, and he provided reasoning for his actions that made sense, so i took my vote off of him. How Evil of me.

My dinner break is almost over though, so i'll be off for the next 4 hours. Enjoy the game.

Lopen, please make sure i get defenestrated somehow.

[Walin]

I have a strategy for rooting out eliminators, and if anyone calls that bluff and assassinates me we may never know it.

What did the Nerkel do before getting Eliminated? He told some punless jokes and bluffed his way to victory.

Some jokes for real, let’s just say that Nerkel says all of these offscreen.

Soulcast grain: Bland Sand Brand (tm)

How did the gambling spearman fight? With scissors and a pouch, in case of gemstone-bearded Parshendi!

What kind of Stormlight casts warm shadows? The ones with a cool color! (blue, green, purple; kind of a weak pun since Stormlight light is already cold)

When the sphere was finished emitting Stormlight, it was done/dun.

What do you call the ardent actors in a play? The SoulCast.

 

[Sparkrunner]

1 hour ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

3, Oh no! I retracted my Vote on Jondesu after he defended himself! Heaven forbid we actually listen to the people we're accusing. I explained why i was suspicious of him, and he provided reasoning for his actions that made sense, so i took my vote off of him. How Evil of me.

The Only Joe thank you for that.

[Walin]

Jondesu, to cancel out the Joe votes. It's a little too bandwagony

[TheMightyLopen]

The Day is over!

[TheMightyLopen]

                                                                                                                                  Night 1

"Bridge 11!" Gaz called out from outside the barracks. "Or Bridge 404, whatever it was you wanted to be called," he grumbled. "You're up for chasm duty. Don't think that just because one of you died in his sleep you'll be getting special treatment either. I expect you all down there in 10 minutes."

The Bridge crew slowly made their way out of the barracks, not really caring about the consequences of not hurrying to get down into the chasms. It was hard to make anyone hurry to get down there, where you might not ever come back up to the sunlight again. They began arguing about who might've poisoned the man during the night.

"I think it might've been Div," Jost said. "I was talking to him earlier, and he seemed nervous for some reason."

"Storms, why wouldn't I be nervous?" Div said. "We just saw a man die this morning!"

There was a murmur of agreement as many of the bridge crew started to look askance at Jost. It didn't seem like the death had really affected him. He'd certainly been very talkative. Maybe he'd done it?

Everyone went quiet as they reached the rope ladder leading down to the chasms, the crew starting down one at a time. When it was Jost's turn to climb down, he felt two pairs of arms grab him by the shoulders and heave him forward into the air. His scream was cut short as the chasm floor rushed to meet him.

Down at the bottom, the rest of the bridge crew searched his body, glad for the darkness of the chasms. One of them found something underneath his vest and called for a torch. It was a bottle filled with a strange green substance.

"It looks like we found our killer," one of them said with a sigh of relief. "I'm glad that's over with."

---

Joe was lynched! He was a Spy Eavesdropper!

Joe(4): BR, Straw, Drake, Jon
Jondesu(2): Striker, Walin
Striker(1): Rand
BR(1): Unremarkable vote

PM's are open again!

Player list:

Spoiler

1. Darkness (Nuatoma Akihiko)
2. Randuir (Tenodin)
3. Straw (An Explosive Gerbil)
4. Brightness Radiant (undecided)
5. Hemalurgic Headshot (Kurt Barnacles)
6. Jondesu (Div)
7. Sami (Reddathan)
8. Roadwalker (Silver Feather)
9. Drake Marshall (Pashul)
10. Lemonelon (Ellenie)
11. StrikerEZ (Ardenal)
12. Walin (Nerkel)
13. Arinian (blank)
14. Sart (Mortago)
15. Megasif (Kohl)
16. OrlokTsubodai (Locke Tekiel)
17. Manukos (manukosokunam)
18. Eternum (Deral)
19. Shqueeves (Melb)
20. Joe in a Bush (Jost Joslin) Spy Eavesdropper