Toaster Retribution

Controversial Opinions

608 posts in this topic

Here are my controversial opinions for today (which if I stay on schedule, won't respond to until tomorrow): 

Byleth and Ignatz from Fire Emblem: Three Houses have better characterization than Itsuki Aoi from Tokyo MIrage Sessions#FE. HOWEVER, Byleth and Ignatz also underscore how good characterization should be the starting line, not the finish line. That's where they fail for the most part, as the two never really grow beyond their past and their quirks. I still really like them though. 

Marvel may have better movies overall, but DC has better comics, shows, and cartoons. And their amalgamation comic run together was better than most of their crossover stuff. 

The MCU shouldn't bring back Wolverine, Cyclops or Jean Grey. Wolverine is like an Basketball MVP number, you gotta retire it for a time. Cyclops and Jean Grey have way too much narrative baggage right now. The Phoenix Saga can be good, and building up to the Phoenix Force as a galactic level threat can be cool; but after three bad movies, it's time to let it rest for now. That leaves the question of who should lead the X-Men. And I say it should be none other than Storm. (Jubilee was my go-to pick for the longest time, and I still think could have a cool storyline in the MCU*; but Storm needs to be the leader.) 

Mighy Morphin' Power Rangers may be the foundational Power Rangers series, but it's far from the best. Dino Thunder, Dino Charge (NOT Dino Supercharge), and RPM are all better series. 

 

*Jubilee needs a storyline in the MCU though. We need more women of color in front of the camera, and her '90s attire could be excused as the youth simply being going for a retro style. And her powers are almost perfect for a mutant who wants to become a social media influencer. Start there, and develop her into a real hero. 

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2 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Marvel may have better movies overall, but DC has better comics, shows, and cartoons. And their amalgamation comic run together was better than most of their crossover stuff. 

That may have been true at one time, but I don't think that holds for the past few years. 

Marvel comics have been getting a little better, DC has been consistently bad since New 52. DC maaaaaaay have better amalgamation comics, overall, but Marvel had the best ones period (Secret Wars and Infinity Gauntlet are still enjoyable today. DC stuff has a shelf life in enjoyability and relevancy to its own universe) 

The DC cartoons have been mostly garbage recently (*with the exception of Harley Quinn which is just fantastic). Not saying Marvel has gotten better, they haven't, but DC no longer makes good stuff*

Marvel will probably outpace DC on the show front soon with the Disney+ series. 

Honestly, I would say that what DC has more of than Marvel is cultural momentum. Unfortunately, when that's all you have, you tend to have the terrible recent Batman products (except for his crossovers with the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, those are fantastic).

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4 hours ago, Orlion the Platypus said:

The DC cartoons have been mostly garbage recently (*with the exception of Harley Quinn which is just fantastic). Not saying Marvel has gotten better, they haven't, but DC no longer makes good stuff*

Marvel will probably outpace DC on the show front soon with the Disney+ series

I mean how do you grade this sort of thing?  is it total number of good shows? across all time?  currently airing?  how do you count shows that were maybe good for a bit, but are bad now, or that have a mix of good and bad seasons (e.g. Arrow, The Flash).  I think DC probably just also has a lot more shows that they've made.  do the bad ones count against them?

I'd probably give the edge to DC counting from a position of total good shows across all time (the DCAU gets them a lot of points, here), though that doesn't necessarily account for any new shows coming out.

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While we talk about comics I'll slip this one in. It might be due to the fact that I haven't read the entire 500-number run that comes before (though I plan to in the future), but I really liked One More Day in Amazing Spider-Man. 

Edited by Eluvianii
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1 hour ago, Dunkum said:

I mean how do you grade this sort of thing?  is it total number of good shows? across all time?  currently airing?  how do you count shows that were maybe good for a bit, but are bad now, or that have a mix of good and bad seasons (e.g. Arrow, The Flash).  I think DC probably just also has a lot more shows that they've made.  do the bad ones count against them?

I'd probably give the edge to DC counting from a position of total good shows across all time (the DCAU gets them a lot of points, here), though that doesn't necessarily account for any new shows coming out.

So my post is a "current state" sort of deal. I've been disappointed in a lot of the animated features from DC recently. 

Throughout time? Well, the 90s DC cartoons were vastly superior to the 90s Marvel ones. Which, unfortunately, lead to Timm making some middling products in recent times...

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6 hours ago, Orlion the Platypus said:

That may have been true at one time, but I don't think that holds for the past few years. 

Marvel comics have been getting a little better, DC has been consistently bad since New 52. DC maaaaaaay have better amalgamation comics, overall, but Marvel had the best ones period (Secret Wars and Infinity Gauntlet are still enjoyable today. DC stuff has a shelf life in enjoyability and relevancy to its own universe) 

The DC cartoons have been mostly garbage recently (*with the exception of Harley Quinn which is just fantastic). Not saying Marvel has gotten better, they haven't, but DC no longer makes good stuff*

Marvel will probably outpace DC on the show front soon with the Disney+ series. 

Honestly, I would say that what DC has more of than Marvel is cultural momentum. Unfortunately, when that's all you have, you tend to have the terrible recent Batman products (except for his crossovers with the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, those are fantastic).

Respectfully I disagree. Outside of the few great exceptions of Kamala Khan, Spider-Gwen, and Miles Morales, Marvel comics have been struggling to make solid storylines for years. They sunk the Ultimate universe in Ultimatum, one of the worst events of its kind; Civil War 2 was boring at best and awful at worst; and do you remember how much flak Marvel received for Hydra-Cap? And those are the memorable storylines. 

Meanwhile DC introduced the Court of Owls, villains so popular that they have their own movie, are the villains in the next Batman game, and may factor into the next Batman movie. 

DC confirmed that there are three canonical Jokers running around. 

DC has had some of the best crossovers in years with Dark Nights: Metal and the sequel Death Metal. 

New 52 was mostly duds, yes, but the Batman, Aquaman, and Justice League runs were phenomenal. People can still talk about those! And if you haven't checked out Superman: Unchained, I suggest you do. It's a really fun (if confusing at times) read. Rebirth, while not super exciting, did bring back some of the Pre-New 52 stuff as well. 

Not to mention that DC is more willing to play with graphic novels and reach different markets than Marvel is. DC's Young Readers and YA line is not only stronger, comprised of unique stories that the comics don't tell. Go into the Marvel section of a bookstore and you'll find reprints of Miles Morales' first foray as Spider-Man (which is awesome and incredible, but it's not new). Go to DC and you'll find a second-gen immigrant Green Lantern. (Green Lantern: Legacy.) Marvel retells Iron Man's best child-appropriate stories; DC is inventing new stories about Young Bruce Wayne, Diana Prince, or even Selina Kyle. They're hiring big-name authors to create those stories too. And we can't forget the adventures of John Kent, Damian/Ian Wayne, and their new female friend.*

DC is doing the Future State jump for a few months next year too. There are rumors that it used to be 5G or whatever it was called, but those can't fully be proven. But Future State looks really interesting! When was the last time Marvel had a non-X-Men future time-line story that was good? Old Man Logan at its beginning? 

 

I'm not saying that Marvel hasn't done any daring moves in the past couple of years - Jane Foster's run as Thor and Sam Wilson's run as Captain America are supposedly great and new staples in recommend reading for the characters. And Superior Spider-Man was really fun too! But DC has been far more willing to experiment with its stories, characters, and concepts in than Marvel, and it's that sort of mindset that gets people's attention in a positive way. 

Overall, I see Marvel's slates and I don't feel anything other than a passive curiosity at what X-Men is doing right now. But I look at DC and see something to look forward to - to be excited about. 

 

 

6 hours ago, Orlion the Platypus said:

The DC cartoons have been mostly garbage recently (*with the exception of Harley Quinn which is just fantastic). Not saying Marvel has gotten better, they haven't, but DC no longer makes good stuff*

Marvel's cartoons aren't any better. Both recent Spider-Man cartoons were mediocre at best, their latest Avengers cartoon had to survive off of the spin-offs, and Agents of Hulk exists...

DC may not be where they used to be, but Justice League Action has its fans, and Teen Titans Go knows exactly what it is and whom its catering to, and it isn't afraid to mock itself and those who mock it about this fact. Young Justice: Outsiders may have been spread thin, but that's still a revival of a show, and that is huge. 

And agreed on Harley Quinn. That show is carrying the whole stinking playing field right now. But again, that goes to show that DC isn't afraid of doing things differently. Of doing what Marvel won't do (or rather what Disney won't let them do). 

 

In terms of live action, it's frankly a tossup at this point. CW has historically had the lead with Smallville, and I don't think the CW DC shows blew that lead either. And yes, the MCU has had some phenomenal hits with Daredevil, Luke Cage (at times), Punisher, Runaways, and Cloak & Dagger. But they were also built on a faulty promise that DC comics weren't. And let's not forget the dips in quality that were Iron Fist, The Defenders**, and Inhumans. 

On the other side you've got two amazing first seasons of Arrow and Flash, with everything else being splotchy; Legends of Tomorrow being just a wacky fun hijinks show; Supergirl being...Supergirl, and Black Lightning talking about issues Luke Cage frankly didn't. The DC characters crossed over from one show to another very often, and it created this sense of a shared universe that the Netflix shows couldn't do with the world they apparently inhabited. (I still remember the time a character in Jessica Jones said "the big green guy" instead of the Hulk, and how Daredevil kept referring to the Invasion of New York as "the incident.") 

So Marvel may win this round in the near future (FALCON AND THE WINTER SOLDIER HYPE YEAH!!!), but they're doing so on the ground that DC paved.***

 

Also I meant Amalgam comics as in when Marvel and DC worked together and combined their characters into one, not crossovers. I think those are better than the standard "Captain America meets Superman" or "Batman meets Spider-Man" comics. THAT BEING SAID, I'd love to see a 1-2 year long crossover run, where we just explore a world where Marvel and DC characters exist together. How different would the Justice League look if the Avengers were operating at the same time? Would one be earth-based and the other completely galactic? Imagine the double-talk at the fundraisers Tony Stark and Bruce Wayne would throw together. And you know Peter Parker and Dick Grayson would be best friends. ...assuming we're de-aging Peter to be roughly Dick's age. Otherwise Peter would be stuck around Bruce, and there's so little fun in that. Miles could join the Young Justice crew and have a great time there. And Kara Danvers could hide her Kryptonian origins in the adventures of Supergirl and the X-Men!

...could I have my Captain America & Wonder Woman romance? (Imagine them meeting in WW2 and then Steve goes into the ice. He's awakened by SHIELD, but refuses to be a superhero in the new world. SHIELD acquiesces, and gives him bodyguard duty...and he's guarding none other than one Diana Prince.) 

Although the Marvel Manga comics are...interesting to say the least...

Amazon.com: The Amalgam Age of Comics (The DC Comics Collection)  (9781563892950): DC Comics: Books

 

In terms of crossovers, I agree it's a tight race. I think DC still edges out Marvel due to the fact that their iconic crossover event changed their entire canon in a really cool way. Secret Wars didn't do that. Granted, Marvel's mid-late 2000s run of Civil War, Secret Invasion, and Siege was phenomenal IMO. (At least the Young Avengers/Runaways crossover during that time was.) But they blew it with AvX and things after. But right now, I can't even remember what Marvel's crossover this year is. 

 

*YMMV on whether or not this story is good, but it's definitely different. 

**I truly believe that the CW crossovers are the reason The Defenders was so lackluster when it came out. Think about it. When it was announced, we had only one major crossover even in the first Avengers movie. But by the time The Defenders came out in 2017, we had two more Avengers movies and roughly 4 crossover CW DC crossover episodes, each getting bigger than the last. What The Defenders prided themselves on being felt more-or-less commonplace by the time it rolled around. 

***None of this is a knock on Marvel or DC. They both help pave the path the other walks on. And while they are rivals, they're also great friends, and share a lot of actors, writers, creators, and overall workers. When one is doing well, so is the other. 

 

51 minutes ago, Eluvianii said:

While we talk about comics I'll slip this one in. It might be due to the fact that I haven't read the entire 500-number run that comes before (though I plan to in the future), but I really liked One More Day in Amazing Spider-Man. 

This may be the most controversial take I've heard in a LONG time. 

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56 minutes ago, Orlion the Platypus said:

So my post is a "current state" sort of deal. I've been disappointed in a lot of the animated features from DC recently. 

Throughout time? Well, the 90s DC cartoons were vastly superior to the 90s Marvel ones. Which, unfortunately, lead to Timm making some middling products in recent times...

I haven't watched much of either recently, so I can't attest to that.   which is sort of why my own grading has to go all time.  im much more familiar with the 90s shows (honestly more like late 80s-2000s), where DC was great, though Marvel had a fair showing with XMen and Spider Man at least.  they also had Fantastic Four and Iron Man, but I don't remember enough about those to judge.

 

3 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

In terms of live action, it's frankly a tossup at this point. CW has historically had the lead with Smallville, and I don't think the CW DC shows blew that lead either. And yes, the MCU has had some phenomenal hits with Daredevil, Luke Cage (at times), Punisher, Runaways, and Cloak & Dagger. But they were also built on a faulty promise that DC comics weren't. And let's not forget the dips in quality that were Iron Fist, The Defenders**, and Inhumans. 

On the other side you've got two amazing first seasons of Arrow and Flash, with everything else being splotchy; Legends of Tomorrow being just a wacky fun hijinks show; Supergirl being...Supergirl, and Black Lightning talking about issues Luke Cage frankly didn't. The DC characters crossed over from one show to another very often, and it created this sense of a shared universe that the Netflix shows couldn't do with the world they apparently inhabited. (I still remember the time a character in Jessica Jones said "the big green guy" instead of the Hulk, and how Daredevil kept referring to the Invasion of New York as "the incident.") 

So Marvel may win this round in the near future (FALCON AND THE WINTER SOLDIER HYPE YEAH!!!), but they're doing so on the ground that DC paved.***

Arrow and Flash are frustrating because they could have been so much better.  they both started out extremely strong, then blew it.  I've heard good things about Arrow's last season, but I couldn't stick it out that long.  Hard agree on Legends of Tomorrow, though.  after a frankly disastrous first season, they had to have the biggest turn-around i've ever seen, and seasons 2-4 blow all the other CW shows out of the water.  On the Marvel side, Daredevil season 1 was great, and season 2 had a great start - putting it about on par with The Flash.  Jessica Jones season 1 was fantastic, with a few minor hiccups, Luke Cage had a great 1st half but sort of lost momentum, and I havent seen the rest.  I could easily see that matching pretty well against the CW shows in terms of overall quality.

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2 minutes ago, Dunkum said:

Arrow and Flash are frustrating because they could have been so much better.  they both started out extremely strong, then blew it. 

I know!! And I actually didn't mind Arrow Season 3! Arrow Season 5 was fortunately a return to form, but yeah, they couldn't keep up that newly recovered momentum. 

 

4 minutes ago, Dunkum said:

On the Marvel side, Daredevil season 1 was great, and season 2 had a great start - putting it about on par with The Flash.  Jessica Jones season 1 was fantastic, with a few minor hiccups, Luke Cage had a great 1st half but sort of lost momentum, and I havent seen the rest. 

Iron Fist pulled a reverse Luke Cage. The first half of Season 1 was terrible, but the second half was a lot better. Granted, when you start at the bottom you can only go up. (Although if you want to see a show about a blonde trust-fund kid coming back from being presumed dead with martial arts and a desire for vengeance, re-watch Arrow. At least Stephen Amell can do some of his stunts.) The Defenders wasn't bad, but it wasn't that good either. Like Luke Cage, they

[MASSIVE DEFENDERS AND LUKE CAGE SPOILERS]

Spoiler

killed off the originally promoted antagonist for a far weaker one. 

And like Luke Cage, the show suffered for it. 

 

9 minutes ago, Dunkum said:

DC was great, though Marvel had a fair showing with XMen and Spider Man at least.  they also had Fantastic Four and Iron Man, but I don't remember enough about those to judge.

That X-Men theme is iconic! I was a '90s baby though, so I actually grew up with Spider-Man Unlimited and X-Men: Evolution. Maybe that's why I'm partial to letting Cyclops and Jean rest a bit. (Scott and Rogue had far better chemistry than Scott and Jean!) 

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3 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

I know!! And I actually didn't mind Arrow Season 3! Arrow Season 5 was fortunately a return to form, but yeah, they couldn't keep up that newly recovered momentum. 

I liked season 4 better, if only because Damien Darhk was great every time he was on screen.  He was sort of gleefully menacing and it 100% worked for me.  the rest of the season was a mess, btuu at least the villain felt solid.

 

3 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

That X-Men theme is iconic! I was a '90s baby though, so I actually grew up with Spider-Man Unlimited and X-Men: Evolution. Maybe that's why I'm partial to letting Cyclops and Jean rest a bit. (Scott and Rogue had far better chemistry than Scott and Jean!) 

I watched a bit of X-Men Evolution and liked it, but i figure it gets cancelled out on the DC side by Static Shock, in terms of quality.  and DC has Batman Beyond, which was fantastic.

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@Use the Falchion Nearly all the DC comics you mentioned are the reason I stopped buying DC comics :P

Especially the Metal stuff. And the Three Joker storyline? My friend got them so I read them and...DC needs to move past Alan Moore and Frank Miller. 

Doomsday Clock was good. 

A lot of DC comics (particularly 5G) got canned when the editorial staff got sacked earlier this year. Who knows what is going to happen, rumors were that AT&T were going to cancel most if not all the comics. 

Hydra Captain was great. But what I like about Marvel comics is that they are consistently enjoyable. They usually know what they are and are not trying to ride the 80s grimdark wave in the 2020s.

Their great stuff are the Doctor Aphra and Darth Vader comics :lol:

And R L Stine's run of Man-Thing is a modern masterpiece! 

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*slithers in*

Ear/AirPods are genuinely good earphones. 

*slithers out*

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9 minutes ago, Slowswift said:

*slithers in*

Ear/AirPods are genuinely good earphones. 

*slithers out*

I won a pair of AirPods for filling out a survey, but I already had earbuds and my parents don't let me use them that often anyway, so I sold them :P

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8 minutes ago, revelryintheart said:

I won a pair of AirPods for filling out a survey, but I already had earbuds and my parents don't let me use them that often anyway, so I sold them :P

I had to reread this a couple times -- good idea selling the pods you weren't using, but what? Do... do your parents not let you listen to music? :o

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3 minutes ago, Slowswift said:

I had to reread this a couple times -- good idea selling the pods you weren't using, but what? Do... do your parents not let you listen to music? :o

I can listen to music, I just can't use earbuds when I'm at home. So I just have to play it for the whole house to hear :P

Their reasoning behind this is that they want to know what sort of music I'm listening to....but I listen to the exact same music as they do. So idk

I am allowed to use them at school and when I'm mowing the lawn.

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1 minute ago, revelryintheart said:

I can listen to music, I just can't use earbuds when I'm at home. So I just have to play it for the whole house to hear :P

Their reasoning behind this is that they want to know what sort of music I'm listening to....but I listen to the exact same music as they do. So idk

I am allowed to use them at school and when I'm mowing the lawn.

Let's heave a sigh, then, for the all the well-meaning yet overbearing parents in our lives. :P

That's nice, at least!

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12 hours ago, Orlion the Platypus said:

@Use the Falchion Nearly all the DC comics you mentioned are the reason I stopped buying DC comics :P

Especially the Metal stuff. And the Three Joker storyline? My friend got them so I read them and...DC needs to move past Alan Moore and Frank Miller. 

Doomsday Clock was good. 

A lot of DC comics (particularly 5G) got canned when the editorial staff got sacked earlier this year. Who knows what is going to happen, rumors were that AT&T were going to cancel most if not all the comics. 

Hydra Captain was great. But what I like about Marvel comics is that they are consistently enjoyable. They usually know what they are and are not trying to ride the 80s grimdark wave in the 2020s.

Their great stuff are the Doctor Aphra and Darth Vader comics :lol:

And R L Stine's run of Man-Thing is a modern masterpiece! 

Gotta say, as diametrically opposed as we are, I LOVED talking comics and superheroes with @Dunkum and you! It's been far too long since I've been able to talk about it with anyone, and I've honestly missed it. 

Now, in terms of your comments, the whole point of the Rebirth reboot and the Doomsday Clock storyline was to finally purge Frank Miller and the whole "gritty realism" that Miller and Watchmen brought to DC out of their system. 

Metal is a crazy wild ride and it's so much fun! I have a friend who hasn't read many comics other than Saga, Superman: Red Son, and whatever comics I let him borrow a few months ago. He went out to buy Dark Nights: Metal and feel in love. It's crazy, zany, weird, and full of alternate reality stuff. That's what DC prides itself on being, and that's what it is. In many ways, you can call it a return to form. 

Hydra Captain was weird and quite controversial. It was like Superman: Red Son but without keeping the integrity of the character. Did people unfairly judge it before it was complete? Yes. But was it also not that good of an idea? Also yes.  And at the end of the day, that's my point. Outside of the X-Men recently (which I really need to check out sometime), the only time I hear about Marvel comics is when they're doing something controversial. But when I hear about DC, they're doing something either really cool or at least innovative. That being said, I'm really glad you enjoyed the run. 

I stopped reading the Star Wars comics a while back, but I still keep up with what's coming out. Charles Soule's Vader run was DOPE though, as was the original Doctor Aphra run. Have you read Shattered Empire? It's a four-shot comic that came out in preparation for The Force Awakens, and it might be one of the best Disney-era Star Wars comics out there. 

I'll try to check out the run of Man-Thing! I'm going on a comicbook binge this weekend for the first time in months. Sadly everything I'm buying has already been planned out, but when I do my next splurge Man-Thing is on the list! 

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Controversial opinion: Twilight had good prose. I’m not talking story here, we’re not even going close to that right now, I mean prose. I liked it. Had rough spots, had awful spots that make me go “who let this happen??”, like every book. But the prose was, in general, a lot better than much of what I’ve read. 

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22 hours ago, AonEne said:

Controversial opinion: Twilight had good prose. I’m not talking story here, we’re not even going close to that right now, I mean prose. I liked it. Had rough spots, had awful spots that make me go “who let this happen??”, like every book. But the prose was, in general, a lot better than much of what I’ve read. 

In my opinion, as her story got worse, her prose got better. In the first book, I actually liked the story and thought it was pretty decent. You could definitely tell that it was her first book, though, as the sentence structure was awkward and her use of adjectives wasn’t great. In the books after that, the story took a nose dive but the prose improved a ton.

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Today's controversial opinion: microwaves are completely unnecessary and frankly, you should free your kitchen from their tyranny! 

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On 16/11/2020 at 8:28 PM, Orlionra said:

Today's controversial opinion: microwaves are completely unnecessary and frankly, you should free your kitchen from their tyranny! 

This is true, theoretically, but society as we know it would collapse without them, all because of one word. Procrastination. How often do we need to eat or simply want a snack but we don't want to because it means work? But then we think "Wait, I have instant noodles" or maybe "I can just microwave leftovers from yesterday". If microwaves disappear suddenly one day, we'll miss half of our meals, productivity will drop massively leading to poor life conditions and in a few years anarchy would reign, leading to lots of wars which we cannot fight because we wouldn't have any productive soldiers, all of them would be weak because of hunger, so the only way to fight these wars are missiles and bombs, which means in a decade or less humanity would be on the brink of extintion.

Conclusion: Microwaves are necessary for our survival.

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Jeans suck. So does bacon. Shakespeare is not dull, romances are amazing, and Vapor can be really annoying.

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2 hours ago, Condensation said:

Jeans suck. So does bacon. Shakespeare is not dull, romances are amazing, and Vapor can be really annoying.

You got 4 out of 5.

Vapor is NOT annoying

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9 hours ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

You got 4 out of 5.

Vapor is NOT annoying

She is, she's so annoying.

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Controversial opinion: I kind of like wearing a mask, it provides a shield between me and the world, also as the weather gets colder, it keeps my face warm.

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