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@Orlok Tsubodai if I were a green politician, that's what I would do. Best not to waste a secret vote to get the ball rolling...

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1 minute ago, Lemonelon said:

@Orlok Tsubodai if I were a green politician, that's what I would do. Best not to waste a secret vote to get the ball rolling...

Right, but what led you to conclude that I both had a scanning ability and that I am good? That seems to require a rather specific set of knowledge.

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Why else would you know that 2 people were secretly attacked instead of just the one that written about?

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8 minutes ago, Lemonelon said:

@Orlok Tsubodai if I were a green politician, that's what I would do. Best not to waste a secret vote to get the ball rolling...

What advantage does this pose? There's nothing to analyse, confusion generated for the village, and the loss of a village role without discussion. Lynch discussions are useful because of the threat of the lynch forcing players to interact, not because of the lynch itself.

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OMG!! I totally skipped over the vote count! Was thinking @randuir could see who was voting for as a scanning type of role! Sorry for sowing seeds of doubt everywhere. Total rookie error <_<

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1 minute ago, Lemonelon said:

OMG!! I totally skipped over the vote count! Was thinking @randuir could see who was voting for as a scanning type of role! Sorry for sowing seeds of doubt everywhere. Total rookie error <_<

Would you set out your position as you see it for clarity of discussion, having realised that you'd mistaken what had happened?

I believe my point on your leaping straight to the conclusion that we have one village and one eliminator politician acting still stands, does it not?

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44 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

Would you set out your position as you see it for clarity of discussion, having realised that you'd mistaken what had happened?

I believe my point on your leaping straight to the conclusion that we have one village and one eliminator politician acting still stands, does it not?

Okay, clarity:

- made the mistake of thinking randuir had scanning abilities as I didn't see the vote count.

- I think we have either 2 or 4 politicians, with either 1 or 2 split respectively on elim/village. So I think either 2 elim politicians secretly voted or an elim and a village.

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11 minutes ago, Lemonelon said:

Okay, clarity:

- made the mistake of thinking randuir had scanning abilities as I didn't see the vote count.

- I think we have either 2 or 4 politicians, with either 1 or 2 split respectively on elim/village. So I think either 2 elim politicians secretly voted or an elim and a village.

Interesting. Why do you make the assumptions you do regarding numbers, and what do you think about the likelihood of a third faction existing?

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10 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

Interesting. Why do you make the assumptions you do regarding numbers, and what do you think about the likelihood of a third faction existing?

I'm curious what this third fraction would be. What would be it's win conditions?

I still have no idea who to vote for, but I'll try to post some RP today :)

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1 minute ago, Mestiv said:

I'm curious what this third fraction would be. What would be it's win conditions?

I still have no idea who to vote for, but I'll try to post some RP today :)

Frankly, Mestiv, I have no idea. Isengard is a real possibility, though. My argument centres around a belief that using a secret vote on day one is far more likely to come from an eliminator than a village, as I can't identify any advantages to the village arising from killing either Brightness or DA. No discussion was produced, I don't think either of them were overly suspicious, and as such limited analysis was available. This, combined with my belief that two Mordor politicians would be overpowered, depriving the village of its predominate ability to respond to the eliminator kill, leads to the conclusion that the two politicians must be in separate factions, yet likely neither village.

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@Lemonelon, I'm still wondering why your conclusion was 'Rand has scanning abilities', because another possible way for me to know what Ii did if that vote count hadn't been there would have been if I was in on whatever just happened (ie: Rand's an elim or third party). That conclusion wouldn't have required me to have a secret role. You seemed to not even consider that possiblity, which seems odd, unless you know that I'm not an elim.

Sorry for the fact that I'm tunneling on you, btw, but unfortunately too many people are just keeping their heads down right now for me to get something on someone else

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Wow.. my laptop decided to restart while I was writing a message. :rolleyes: 

Sorry for not posting more, I've had classes all week, but one more class and it's the weekend! (Yay :P ) 

I saw that Randuir tagged Sami, but also @Megasif - Please post or you'll die from inactivity :( 

Hmm.. I'm curious about what the "pipe-weed" item could've done. 

I believe that @King Cole has the power to send a message in the write-ups since the scribe role has that action, right? Unless I'm misunderstanding the role. 

 

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@randuir I didn't think an elim would out an ability if they had one so assumed you were village too.

@Orlok Tsubodai I have no idea about a third faction- perhaps that's why there is some gibberish going on though?

Also, the assumption with the numbers is even though there aren't too many roles, many of them are essentially doubled as there are village version and elim version. I'll go over the player list and roles available and post what I think the count would be if you like? This isn't anything I definitely know though, just my observations.

Edit: Okay, looks like there would be a third faction otherwise what would be the point of the Elim Lieutenant finding out the alignment of a scan when the mordor team has a doc

Edited by Lemonelon
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10 minutes ago, Lemonelon said:

@randuir I didn't think an elim would out an ability if they had one so assumed you were village too.

@Orlok Tsubodai I have no idea about a third faction- perhaps that's why there is some gibberish going on though?

Also, the assumption with the numbers is even though there aren't too many roles, many of them are essentially doubled as there are village version and elim version. I'll go over the player list and roles available and post what I think the count would be if you like? This isn't anything I definitely know though, just my observations.

 

I apologise for not being clear, Lemonelon. I'd like to understand why you think a village politician would have cast a secret vote last cycle, or, if not, why you think it would be balanced to give the eliminators two secret votes?

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You know I'm kind of feeling out of the swing of things. After so many games of not needing to be suspicious of people, I need to be suspicious again. I'll try to come up with some helpful analysis. One thing that does come to mind is that Orlok is saying a lot. don't know if that's a good sign or a bad sign. I just don't remember him saying so much before, particularly as an elim. So I'm going to go with a village read on Orlok

Edited by Steeldancer
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Clarification that I feel I should post here: Guards of the Citadel cannot protect themselves. Just keeping the game balanced, nothing major. :P

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10 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

You know I'm kind of feeling out of the swing of things. After so many games of not needing to be suspicious of people, I need to be suspicious again. I'll try to come up with some helpful analysis. One thing that does come to mind is that Orlok is saying a lot. don't know if that's a good sign or a bad sign. I just don't remember him saying so much before, particularly as an elim. So I'm going to go with a village read on Orlok

I think Orlok would probably talk a lot if he felt it necessary to keep thing going, and right now it's been mostly me, Orlok and Lemonelon that have been talking, out of a group of 18. Anyway, @Lemonelon, I've got a little theory. Let's say it is as you say, with a rather inexperienced politician putting in one of the two votes. which of the two do you reckon would be done by the village politician?

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@randuir as there would be no one to actually suspect, it would be a random person who stood out- maybe by going through the first player list the first name that pops and doesn't look like a continuous paragraph of speech...?

 And they would cross their fingers they chose an elim!

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54 minutes ago, Lemonelon said:

@randuir as there would be no one to actually suspect, it would be a random person who stood out- maybe by going through the first player list the first name that pops and doesn't look like a continuous paragraph of speech...?

 And they would cross their fingers they chose an elim!

@Lemonelon, would you mind rephrasing that, and explaining which of the two targets your thought process would lead to? I'm not following the argument you set out above.

Given the lack of information generated so far, I think it would be useful for everyone to give their thoughts on the present situation.

As such, with my apologies: 

@Jondesu, @Steeldancer, @Sony, @Alvron, @asterion137, @Doc12, @queensteph, @Drake Marshall, @Manukos, @Sami, @Mestiv, @Roadwalker, @Straw, @BrightnessRadiant, @Megasif, your thoughts on the outcome of last cycle, and predominately on this cycle's discussion of it, would be appreciated.

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@Orlok Tsubodai that's as clear as I can do for now. I'll be happy to explain in the dead doc :)

If I'm lynched though, you will be getting rid of a Gondor player, just so you know...

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8 minutes ago, Lemonelon said:

If I'm lynched though, you will be getting rid of a Gondor player, just so you know...

Hate to be that guy, but an elim would say the same here. Part of me is inclined to believe you, but I don't really see what the mysteriousness is necessary for at this stage if you are village. As it stands right now, I'll probably place a vote on you before the cycle's end to hamper any elim vote manipulation.

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Okay, so if I'm going to voted on today anyway I might as well claim. I'm village politician, voted for BR first cycle. I didn't have any suspicions of course as it was the first cycle and as I was making my way down the player list from the sign up page BR had a space before and after their name and I took it as a sign I should pick them. No idea how BR is aligned I was just hoping I didn't pick a village- which didn't make a difference anyway as RNG picked the other vote. 

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2 hours ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

My argument centres around a belief that using a secret vote on day one is far more likely to come from an eliminator than a village, as I can't identify any advantages to the village arising from killing either Brightness or DA. No discussion was produced, I don't think either of them were overly suspicious, and as such limited analysis was available.

(emphasis my own) heyyyyy :P when was I ever suspicious lol ;) I mostly only posted once to ask about voting xD *shrugs I don't really get why a "village" politician would use their action on the first cycle. I'm just glad I didn't die cycle one. I mean, there wasn't much to go off of in the thread so why even use it when the chances of hitting a villager are way higher without anything to go off of? That reason alone would make me wonder if both politicians were elim, except that I've known villagers to use their powers like this cycle one before. Guess I just don't see the reasoning behind it. It's better to wait and see if you can figure out who the elims are before using it. Especially when there are no votes in thread. Using it cycle one, under those circumstances just seems far more helpful for the elims than it does for the village. (okay done ranting xD) I suppose I just feel that those were either two elim politicians, one of each and the villager just decided to use it for some reason, or Orlok's theory about a third faction could be a possibility. (although I'm unsure of what their goal would be)

@Steeldancer wasn't Orlok an elim in the Gunnerkrigg court game? He was very talkey in that one lol. :P Just sayin, I wouldn't put it past him haha (although lynching the active and more talkative players is something I wouldn't want to do this early in the game because we need to keep discussion going)

I can see how Lemon would think Rand was a scanner role if they missed the vote count in the writeup...I don't think that's such a big deal since they're a newer player. And assuming that their was at least one elim politician seems rational to me. (maybe I'm biased cuz that's also my opinion haha xD) That said, I would still vote on Lemon right now but mostly because they've had so much back and forth discussion with a few other people I'd like to get a read on, and finding out Lemon's alignment could help with that. Ninja'd by Rand (and I'd also vote Lemon to avoid having that secret vote happen again xD) But by this reasoning I could also vote on Rand or Orlok...I just really don't want either of them gone because they're adding so much to drive discussion and they usually do. I guess for now, Lemonelon. I'll make sure to watch and see if anyone else says anything to give me a better vote choice before the cycle ends. (I'll be around online so not like I'll miss the voting heh) I just really don't want another no vote cycle xD. (well we had votes :rolleyes:)

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