[OB] Patterns in the Walls

[Gaussian]

In Shallan's new chapters we've noticed several mentions of the patterns on the walls of Urithiru.  Now, this may just be a coincidence due to her greater aesthetic refinement, but I think there is more to it than that.  We know that Lightweaving involves "Light, Sound, and other waveforms."  To me, the patterns could very well be some of these other "waveforms."  Thus, the majority of the information the Radiants had gathered is encoded in the walls, waiting to be unlocked by an appropriately aware Lightweaver.  This is part of Urithiru's protection, since even if an enemy gets inside, they can't get at any of the Radiant's information since they aren't bonded with a Cryptic and don't have the surges to interpret it.  Let me know if you have any other ideas as to why so much time has been spent expositing the walls.

[RazeU]

Definitely something going on there. Or a level 9,000 red herring. Your idea is interesting, I like the theory a lot.

edit: although I have to wonder if Pattern would not have mentioned other patterns on the walls by this point?

Edited September 26, 2017 by RazeU

[OathKeeper]

46 minutes ago, Gaussian said:

In Shallan's new chapters we've noticed several mentions of the patterns on the walls of Urithiru.  Now, this may just be a coincidence due to her greater aesthetic refinement, but I think there is more to it than that.  We know that Lightweaving involves "Light, Sound, and other waveforms."  To me, the patterns could very well be some of these other "waveforms."  Thus, the majority of the information the Radiants had gathered is encoded in the walls, waiting to be unlocked by an appropriately aware Lightweaver.  This is part of Urithiru's protection, since even if an enemy gets inside, they can't get at any of the Radiant's information since they aren't bonded with a Cryptic and don't have the surges to interpret it.  Let me know if you have any other ideas as to why so much time has been spent expositing the walls.

I agree that there is something to it, but I doubt "other waveforms" means strata of rock sediment. 

I kind of think there is significance to soulcast rock that we have yet to learn. Since her lightweaving was explored so much in WoR, I bet Shallan soulcasting will be heavily featured in Oathbringer. And in learning to do so, she will have to make the connection between the strata and something she encounters in shadesmar. The cover, ft. Jasnah soulcasting a wall, shows the same strata Shallan has been focusing on. I don't think Jasnah is transmitting a code... Just fixing a wall.

Less exciting than your theory, I know :/

[Daishi5]

Shallan is deeply uncomfortable being deep in urithiru, and requests a room with a balcony because of it.  She also seems to recognize patterns that could lead her to Dalinar's room.  She also can't draw it.  ( But that could be due to it's ridiculous size) I don't know if information is encoded there, but something is really weird about the place.

[Hischier]

9 minutes ago, Daishi5 said:

Shallan is deeply uncomfortable being deep in urithiru, and requests a room with a balcony because of it.  She also seems to recognize patterns that could lead her to Dalinar's room.  She also can't draw it.  ( But that could be due to it's ridiculous size) I don't know if information is encoded there, but something is really weird about the place.

This reminds me, why has no one looked for actual information? The reason Jasnah wanted to find Urithiru in the first place was to find info about the return of the Voidbringers.  Sure they're back already, but that still seems like it'd be very useful information. Hopefully they get around to it at some point. 

[Daishi5]

1 minute ago, Hischier said:

This reminds me, why has no one looked for actual information? The reason Jasnah wanted to find Urithiru in the first place was to find info about the return of the Voidbringers.  Sure they're back already, but that still seems like it'd be very useful information. Hopefully they get around to it at some point. 

I have to go look, but i think Shallan has been looking, but hasn't found any library yet.  If you look at the urithiru size thread, the place is huge.

[Thrand_Antharo]

Personally I suspect that urithiru may have been a listener city and the patterns are related to that. However that's only a feeling and I don't have anything to back it up 

[Hischier]

16 minutes ago, Daishi5 said:

I have to go look, but i think Shallan has been looking, but hasn't found any library yet.  If you look at the urithiru size thread, the place is huge.

Oh, I didn't think she'd have found anything yet, just that it'd be mentioned that she was looking for a library or that someone was anyway.   

[Calderis]

31 minutes ago, Hischier said:

Oh, I didn't think she'd have found anything yet, just that it'd be mentioned that she was looking for a library or that someone was anyway.   

It was mentioned. At the beginning of the very first Shallan chapter. 

[Subvisual Haze]

4 hours ago, Daishi5 said:

Shallan is deeply uncomfortable being deep in urithiru, and requests a room with a balcony because of it.  She also seems to recognize patterns that could lead her to Dalinar's room.  She also can't draw it.  ( But that could be due to it's ridiculous size) I don't know if information is encoded there, but something is really weird about the place.

It could be a sort of anti-magic defense mechanism.  When Shallan is trying to draw the place it somehow interferes with her powers of perception?  Perhaps the stone itself is a certain mixed composition to prevent Thunderclasts from forming out of the walls.

[aemetha]

7 hours ago, RazeU said:

although I have to wonder if Pattern would not have mentioned other patterns on the walls by this point?

Pattern likely would not mention it. It is a bit of an ongoing theme that spren are continually amazed that their humans don't notice things they think are obvious. With Syl it is often things like the nature of spren, and with pattern it is patterns. How often do you talk about grass when you walk through a field of grass? It's obvious right? What if your companion is blind, is it any less obvious to you that you're walking through grass? You have to consciously be alert that your companion does not perceive a thing for it to be noteworthy.

[redbishop]

Wild Speculation!

I think this may also be foreshadowing.  We have from WOB that Shallan is one ideal ahead of Kaladin, so she's on the Fourth (of at least Five).  What we don't yet know is the circumstances that led to her mother and her mysterious visitor-cum-probably-not-lover deciding to try and kill Shallan, or the circumstances leading her to bond with Pattern.

Anyone want to take bets that it involved a cave, a mountain, or both?  Maybe once it is revealed, and she faces it (stating a truth), she'll be able to pull herself together.

Extra points if Plate is involved!

EDIT:  What if she was discovered because she Soulcast the additional marble deposits into one of her families failing mines, which both alerted her mother and planted the seed for her father the idea to use a Soulcaster to try and save the house that way, when the opportunity arose?  It would also explain why Soulcasting seemed so difficult for her (a block), and why the striations in what we speculate is Soulcast stone are so distracting.

Edited September 27, 2017 by redbishop
More Speculation!

[Isaiah Zayth]

48 minutes ago, redbishop said:

Wild Speculation!

I think this may also be foreshadowing.  We have from WOB that Shallan is one ideal ahead of Kaladin, so she's on the Fourth (of at least Five).  What we don't yet know is the circumstances that led to her mother and her mysterious visitor-cum-probably-not-lover deciding to try and kill Shallan, or the circumstances leading her to bond with Pattern.

Anyone want to take bets that it involved a cave, a mountain, or both?  Maybe once it is revealed, and she faces it (stating a truth), she'll be able to pull herself together.

Extra points if Plate is involved!

EDIT:  What if she was discovered because she Soulcast the additional marble deposits into one of her families failing mines, which both alerted her mother and planted the seed for her father the idea to use a Soulcaster to try and save the house that way, when the opportunity arose?  It would also explain why Soulcasting seemed so difficult for her (a block), and why the striations in what we speculate is Soulcast stone are so distracting.

I really like all the ideas you put forth here.

Shallan's hesitation to use Pattern as a blade may also support the idea that she becomes the first to figure out how to use plate. She is actively practicing her powers and has no desire to face the fact she murder both her parents; speaking another ideal and letting Pattern "seed" plate (if that is indeed how it works) would be a convenient way to avoid the issue for a little while longer. Obviously, this would allow her to participate in battle without being helpless. which would be very important since a large battle seems to be the crux of Oathbringer. Even if Shallan doesn't take part in that battle, she would still need the capability to defend herself as she is a Radiant.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Isaiah Zayth

[frozndevl]

11 hours ago, redbishop said:

Wild Speculation!

I think this may also be foreshadowing.  We have from WOB that Shallan is one ideal ahead of Kaladin, so she's on the Fourth (of at least Five).  What we don't yet know is the circumstances that led to her mother and her mysterious visitor-cum-probably-not-lover deciding to try and kill Shallan, or the circumstances leading her to bond with Pattern.

Anyone want to take bets that it involved a cave, a mountain, or both?  Maybe once it is revealed, and she faces it (stating a truth), she'll be able to pull herself together.

Extra points if Plate is involved!

EDIT:  What if she was discovered because she Soulcast the additional marble deposits into one of her families failing mines, which both alerted her mother and planted the seed for her father the idea to use a Soulcaster to try and save the house that way, when the opportunity arose?  It would also explain why Soulcasting seemed so difficult for her (a block), and why the striations in what we speculate is Soulcast stone are so distracting.

I like this thought about her soulcasting the deposits... What if the soulcaster never actually worked?

[Bernem]

11 hours ago, frozndevl said:

I like this thought about her soulcasting the deposits... What if the soulcaster never actually worked?

I also like the thought of Shallan soulcasting the deposits. But why would the ghostbloods have been so eager to get the soulcaster back if it were a fake?

[frozndevl]

10 minutes ago, Bernem said:

I also like the thought of Shallan soulcasting the deposits. But why would the ghostbloods have been so eager to get the soulcaster back if it were a fake?

Yeah, I agree that it doesn't make much sense, but maybe they gave the soulcaster to her father, not knowing if it would work or not. And when Shallan did the soulcasting, it "confirmed" for the Ghostbloods that they had a working device. This is a horribly bad theory, with more holes than swiss cheese.

[redbishop]

I still think, reading her thoughts in the latest chapters, that she has something painful she is repressing in her past that involves caves/striated rock and possibly shardplate.

Do we have an active theory that Shallan was once deeply-bonded with Pattern, but regressed and the bond atrophied?  Considering all her repressed memories that have been popping up, it seems likely that Soulcasting is related.

Besides, "I'm going to borrow a Soulcaster and use it to create marble deposits to mine!" is creative, but a pretty unusual route to personal wealth.  Something had to inspire that particular choice.

[KidWayne]

On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 7:39 PM, OathKeeper said:

I kind of think there is significance to soulcast rock that we have yet to learn. <snip> [Shallan] will have to make the connection between the strata and something she encounters in shadesmar. The cover, ft. Jasnah soulcasting a wall, shows the same strata Shallan has been focusing on.

This makes me think of Wan ShaiLu (a.k.a. "Shai") from The Emperor's Soul when she was stuck in her Forger's prison cell with walls crafted from many different kinds of rocks. There is a connection between Forgery & Soulcasting... I wonder how rock strata play into it. Perhaps like Shai, Shallan will be better able to change/soulcast objects if she understanding their origins & history?

That doesn't seem to have much relevance to the way the Jasnah soulcasts, though. She turned living people (criminals) into fire. I can't think that such a feat would be possible for Shai on Sel; the likelihood of a person ever having been a tongue of flame is next to impossible. Hmm...

[redbishop]

So...  if Shallan had counted growth rings, perhaps the Stick could have been persuaded?

[Zea mays]

I've been doing a re-listen to WoK and WoR, and today I heard the Lhan interlude. In this chapter, the "Hall of Memory" - what is obviously the Kholinar oathgate is described. The Ardent also observes the same patterned strata layers in the Rock formation around the city, especially the Windblades, and posits that a drunken god had crafted the whole thing.

[Varion]

I also believe that there is something extremely significant about the striations in the walls of Urithiru. And I think their significance is tied to the deeper secrets of Urithiru, not merely some trigger effect they have on Shallan and her repressed memories.

The following lines from Chapter 13 of Oathbringer jumped out at me in particular, and I took special note of them:

Quote

 

"The first page of the sketchbook was of the corridor with the twisting strata she’d passed through the other day: lines of madness curling toward darkness ...

"In her sketch, the black upper reaches of the large market cavern loomed over tiny figures scurrying between tents, holding fragile lights. The next was another tunnel into darkness. And the next. Then a room where the strata coiled about one another in a mesmerizing manner. She hadn’t realized she’d done so many. She flipped twenty pages before she found her sketches of Veil."

 

A few things stood out to me:

- the repeated references to darkness, whether it be the strata or tunnels twisting towards darkness, or the ceiling of the market looming over the people;

- the twisting strata are repeatedly described as "lines of madness" and "mesmerising", suggesting an effect on the human mind;

- the fact that Shallan didn't realise that she'd made over twenty drawings, suggesting, that she has herself either been mesmerised, or lost some memories of seeing the walls and drawing them. 

I know Shallan is an expert at repressing memories, but I don't believe this memory loss is related to her past. Rather, I agree much more with the idea that the patterns are some form of Urithiru defence mechanism. My personal guess is that they aren't a code, disguising information directly, but act as a sort of optical lock, hiding certain parts of Urithiru from discovery by non-Radiants. 

We have been led to believe that little valuable information has been discovered in Urithiru because it is extremely large. But perhaps the real reason is that the important parts are hidden in plain sight. Shallan has stumbled across several tunnels that lead into darkness -- a foreboding image, but one that might simply suggest that no one has ventured inside and "switched the lights on" so to speak. The only evidence of these darkened tunnels are her sketches -- she has no memory of them, and presumably no one else does either. But her sketches, and perhaps Shallan's developing powers, are no doubt the key to unlocking them.

In fact, when we read thise lines back again, that series of sketches might form a map, starting with "a corridor she'd passed through the other day", perhaps near the "large market cavern", and then progressing through a sequence of darkened tunnels leading to a room where the strata "coiled about itself in a mesmerising manner". Could Shallan have already discovered the way to Urithiru's library, for example, only to have the memory erased by the mesmerising strata? 

 

 

 

 

[KiManiak]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the strata served some type of purpose in Urithuru.  I like @Varion's possibility, but I propose a little more looney of a theory.  What if they help channel/carry Stormlight all through the structure? Like thin lines of gem chips or ground crystals that hold stormlight? Dalinar already noticed that there are baskets/cages that can be dropped into a Highstorm to collect Stormlight.  What if there is some type of link or connection from those cages to the strata, that then channel/conduct the Stormlight throughout the Tower via the strata patterns?  Thus, providing substantial power to the Tower and its inhabitants. 

[Dahak]

I'm wondering between unscratchable rock and Shallans problems drawing Urithru if like Lift it isn't partially in the Cognitive Realm.

Or it's just a side effect of how they built the place and the Dawncities using some massive cymatic effect.

[RazeU]

@KiManiak that's a super clever thought. Sort of a way to get a lot more "bang for your buck" per each highstorm.

[OathKeeper]

23 hours ago, Dahak said:

I'm wondering between unscratchable rock and Shallans problems drawing Urithru if like Lift it isn't partially in the Cognitive Realm.

Or it's just a side effect of how they built the place and the Dawncities using some massive cymatic effect.

This is an interesting thought. I'm kind of jealous it hadn't occurred to me that that is why she can't seem to take it all in. We need Shallan to visit Shadesmar Uruthiru to confirm. I wonder if the strata help navigate the building. Perhaps they glow and guide you with intuitive patterns. That would explain Shallan's aptitude for using the strata in the physical realm, being somewhat more acquainted with the cognitive realm than others.