Stark Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 (edited) @kari-no-sugata I think you are exactly right. As the characters grow and develop, their worldview and status change. Referring to Kaladin as the Slave/Surgeon, even though he may still view those brands as part of him, now that he is Captain of Dalinar's personal guard and lead Windrunner. Shallan is no longer just a Liar trying to rob the king's sister, but a Spy playing a dangerous game with the Ghostbloods and the Sons of Honor. And so on and so forth. What will be interesting to see is how these titles evolve in the next two books. Also, the Sleepless text - is it prophecy or prediction? Edited September 28, 2017 by Stark Corrections thanks to @fulminato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari-no-sugata Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Stark said: And so on and so forth. What will be interesting to see is how these titles evolve in the next two books. Also, the Sleepless text - is it prophecy or prediction? Maybe this is their idea of an internal memo? I think we should consider this to be the analysis of some wise old beings who know a lot about the history of Roshar and the individuals in question. It doesn't sound like they have Surges now so I would guess that their ability to predict the future magically would be limited. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulminato Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stark said: See for me, I figure the characters referenced in this blurb are the same that have always been referenced, just with updated titles. And those are the 5 perspective characters for arc 1. The Warlord became the King, and is Dalinar The Slave became the Captain, and is Kaladin The Assassin became the Stonewalker, and is Szeth (only one who has had any care about walking on stones) The Liar became the Spy, and is Shallan The Explorer became the Traitor, and is Eshonai (betrayed Venli by allowing the group to escape, and betrayed herself by being possessed, maybe. Mostly process of elimination) Disclaimer, my memory of what the original titles are is a little fuzzy. But I don't see why people are looking outside our main five POIs for the first arc for these characters. The Sleepless have always been looking at them. Moash, and the other secondary and tertiaries should not figure into it, I don't think. Hope we get an Eshonai perspective chapter, soon. Kaladin is called 'surgeon' in the backcover of WotK the other four reference are the real moment to broken them. The Captain, broken by loss -> kaladin broken by the loss of his brother The Spy, broken by cruelty -> shallan broken by the attempt of his mother to kill her The Stonewalker, broken by oaths -> sezth broken by the kill his oaths must required (i am sezth son son vallano, Truthless of Shinovar. I do as my masters demand, and I do not ask for explanations) The King. Broken by war -> dalinar broken in the end of the brother's war to unified alethkar (Kadash quit the army and join the ardentia for that action) all the event (for dalinar can be wrong, we will se in the end of the book) are the first and most important event, venli ambition sound 'off' in relation to the other. i still think the ambition of eshonai in the chart the unknow, finding the human, and starting the event chain leading to the everstorm Edited September 28, 2017 by Fulminato 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 9 hours ago, Fulminato said: The Spy, broken by cruelty -> Shallan broken by the attempt of his mother to kill her Shallan's mother tried to kill her because she was "one of them" remember? Bond had to have already started at that point for her to manifest any signs of Radiancy. Quote Murder attempt By 1167, when Shallan is eleven, she begins bonding to Pattern and manifesting Surgebinding abilities. Her mother and an unknown associate realize what is happening and attempt to kill Shallan. While they have Shallan cornered in a room, Shallan's father bursts in and attempts to save Shallan, but her mother's associate restrains him. Shallan summons Pattern as a Shardblade and, in self-defense, kills both her mother and her associate.[10][11] I'd agree with the rest though, but that doesn't necessarily make Shallan stand out. It's been implied on here that her childhood life would have been.. rough, even before the fiasco with her mother, or else she wouldn't have broken enough to bond that early. Makes me curious if her happy memories from before bonding Pattern are falsehoods or selective memory. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulminato Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 6 hours ago, The One Who Connects said: Shallan's mother tried to kill her because she was "one of them" remember? Bond had to have already started at that point for her to manifest any signs of Radiancy. yes, but before that we dont' have hany proof of a trauma, in the middle feast hoid make remember shallan something before, and the scene is quite normal. after the killing attemp she don't speek for month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteLeeopard Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 I haven't read all the pages, but since I didn't see this on the edited versions I will add it anyway. When talking of the traitor I see it more like this: The traitor, broken by ambition, seeks freeform. (The italics are mine to enhance what I see different). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 5 hours ago, Fulminato said: yes, but before that we dont' have hany proof of a trauma, in the middle feast hoid make remember shallan something before, and the scene is quite normal. after the killing attemp she don't speek for month. I don't believe for a second that illusion was anything more than Shallan lying to herself. Her childhood being happy and perfect is, in my opinion, Shallan's most deeply rooted lie to herself. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari-no-sugata Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 He didn't ask for her most precious memory. This is what he asked for: Quote The messenger smiled. “To be human is to seek beauty, Shallan. Do not despair, do not end the hunt because thorns grow in your way. Tell me, what is the most beautiful thing you can imagine?” Also: Shallan is more than aware that this isn't real. Quote She blinked tears. She saw it. Stormfather, but she saw it. She heard her mother’s voice, saw Jushu giving up spheres to Balat as he lost the duel, but laughing as he paid, uncaring of the loss. She could feel the air, smell the scents, hear the sounds of songlings in the brush. Almost, it became real. Wisps of Light rose before her. The messenger had gotten out a handful of spheres and held them toward her while staring into her eyes. The steamy Stormlight rose between them. Shallan lifted her fingers, the image of her ideal life wrapped around her like a comforter. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yulerule Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 Regarding Shallan: The truths she speaks get progressively further back in time. The next Truths are probably from before she killed her mother, so we'll probably learn more about her childhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hischier Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 2 hours ago, Calderis said: I don't believe for a second that illusion was anything more than Shallan lying to herself. Her childhood being happy and perfect is, in my opinion, Shallan's most deeply rooted lie to herself. This has to be it. It makes too much sense to the story and fits with what we know about Shallan. Because she had to have been broken before to have bonded Pattern and had a shard blade (which makes me wonder what kind of truths a 12 year old would've had to speak to advance) and one would assume that for her to advance further in her oaths she'd have to speak more powerful truths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesh Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 (edited) Ahhh, those books are beautiful... Can't wait for the 14th! Only 45 more days... But I have no idea how any of you made out anything on those. *shrug* Edited September 30, 2017 by Tesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 On 9/27/2017 at 11:14 AM, Asrael said: My problem with this is if Rlain is the spy, how is he "broken"? How by cruelty? Why seek completion? If the traitor is moash, how was he broken by ambition and how is he seeking freedom? I feel like these attempts only map to the title, not to the whole person. And frankly... I just don't think Moash and Rlain or even Taravangian are that important. Eshonai at least has been on a cover before and we know she's getting a flashback book, shallan has been on BOTH of the previous books and it would be quite conspicuous if she weren't on this one. Additionally, th usage of broken here kind of suggests Radiants, which its entirely possible Eshonai could be become and the other four already are This is my thought exactly. I am not sure why there is so much confusion over who the 5 named characters are. It seemed pretty obvious to me that one title was going to each of the 5 Major Characters from the first set of 5 books. We know for sure Captain = Kaladin, Spy = Shallan, Stonewalker = Szeth, and King = Dalinar. We also know those 4 are 4/5 of the main PoV characters from the first 5 books. It only makes sense that the 5th is Eshonai. That's even before finding out the 5th is the Traitor, and the arguments made way back on page 1 that make her fit the blurb. It turning out to be Renarin or Moash or any other character would make very little sense in the context of the greater series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchcry Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 (edited) On 9/29/2017 at 1:21 AM, Fulminato said: yes, but before that we dont' have hany proof of a trauma, in the middle feast hoid make remember shallan something before, and the scene is quite normal. after the killing attemp she don't speek for month. The proof that we have is the back cover stating that it was cruelty that broke her. Therefore somebody was cruel to her, like a wicked stepmother. My theory is her mom isn't her real mom Edited September 30, 2017 by Watchcry Misspelled word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 On 9/30/2017 at 9:57 AM, Watchcry said: The proof that we have is the back cover stating that it was cruelty that broke her. If I had to think for cruelty that could have broken her, changing her from the liar to the spy, I'm looking at Mraize and the Ghostbloods. The casual cruelty he exhibits by allowing underlings to try to kill each other, sanctioning assassination attempts. Tysn (sp) on the journey to the shattered plains. There is a lot of casual cruelty in the ghostbloods. But also among the nobility of the War camps. Navani ignored her initially before turning mother hen on her, and that can be cruel. Sadeas is a perfect example of cruelty. Yes, there was cruelty in her past, especially her father towards her brothers, and that can break people quite easily. But also more recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torrieltar Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Got a better picture of the back cover thanks to /u/Jerigord on Reddit. @phoenix2563 had it right! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozndevl Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 So does the line of "our ancient enemies" refer to the world's enemies, or the author's race's enemies. Are the parshendi the ancient enemies of the Sleepless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymeros Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Wow. We might learn the secrets of the Recreance here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silarn Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) 19 hours ago, Torrieltar said: Got a better picture of the back cover thanks to /u/Jerigord on Reddit. @phoenix2563 had it right! I think I was off by one word, lol. Good to have it confirmed! And nobody got the italic he must not know! * Nope, three whole words! And a small amount of punctuation. Edited October 5, 2017 by Silarn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantlee Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 The interesting bit to me that no one has really commented on yet is that the Aimians mention that Quote We may soon hold Surges again, for the Radiance has returned to some, and shines toward others. This strongly implies that the Sleepless once were surgebinders, but lost that ability at some point, just like the Parshendi. I wonder if they were actually part of the KR before the Recreance? From what we've seen of Arclo and Axies, they're pretty Braize powerful already, so it would be pretty cool to see them glow too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 1 hour ago, dantlee said: The interesting bit to me that no one has really commented on yet is that the Aimians mention that This strongly implies that the Sleepless once were surgebinders, but lost that ability at some point, just like the Parshendi. I wonder if they were actually part of the KR before the Recreance? From what we've seen of Arclo and Axies, they're pretty Braize powerful already, so it would be pretty cool to see them glow too. I already commented on it, people said we refers to all of roshar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ElephantEarwax Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) So, we spent a lot of time on this and here is a really good pic from Branderson's FB page. I feel like he waited for us to figure it out. Edited October 6, 2017 by ElephantEarwax 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenBossanova Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 I am really surprised that the Valley is so close to Urithiru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Dalinar's. Memory returns in a location that's closer to the Nightwatcher than he's ever been since visiting her... I mean, she's basically right down the mountains... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammanas Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 This is the first time I have ever heard of publishers printing illustrations on the inside of the dust jacket. They are really going the extra mile on this release! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADIMORTIS Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Why is there a change of font for the title? Anybody knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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