ForcesOfNoodles

Elantrian Feruchemy

17 posts in this topic

One of the things that can be stored with Feruchemy is Connection. Using Feruchemy, one might be able to store Connection with a Shard over a long period of time, then, once the current Shardholder had died, tap it all at once and grab it. Which is exactly what the Ire was planning with Preservation; waiting for Leras to die, then activating a one-use device that momentarily Connected the user with the Shard.

Given that Hoid is capable is "Feruchemy", despite it being hereditary, and the fact that he somewhat predates Scadrial, we can probably safely assume that there are other magics that do effectively the same thing, like Yolish and Rosharan Lightweaving.

So there's an Selish/Elantrian variant of Feruchemy. We'll probably see some of that in Elantris 2.

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4 minutes ago, ForcesOfNoodles said:

One of the things that can be stored with Feruchemy is Connection. Using Feruchemy, one might be able to store Connection with a Shard over a long period of time, then, once the current Shardholder had died, tap it all at once and grab it. Which is exactly what the Ire was planning with Preservation; waiting for Leras to die, then activating a one-use device that momentarily Connected the user with the Shard.

Given that Hoid is capable is "Feruchemy", despite it being hereditary, and the fact that he somewhat predates Scadrial, we can probably safely assume that there are other magics that do effectively the same thing, like Yolish and Rosharan Lightweaving.

So there's an Selish/Elantrian variant of Feruchemy. We'll probably see some of that in Elantris 2.

I...lost the train of thought. I'm sorry. Could you please explain that again? 

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The glass orb used to Connect Kelsier to Preservation(Which he stole from the Ire) seems oddly similar to Feruchemy. Maybe something similar to Feruchemy was used in it's creation.

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12 minutes ago, ForcesOfNoodles said:

The glass orb used to Connect Kelsier to Preservation(Which he stole from the Ire) seems oddly similar to Feruchemy. Maybe something similar to Feruchemy was used in it's creation.

Ah ok. Here we go. 

It's not feruchemy, but it's manipulation of the spirit web. Connection and all that. Feruchemy can mess with that, but messing with that is not always feruchemy. Kolo? 

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36 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

Ah ok. Here we go. 

It's not feruchemy, but it's manipulation of the spirit web. Connection and all that. Feruchemy can mess with that, but messing with that is not always feruchemy. Kolo? 

The Ire also mention tapping fortune at one point, and, as @ForcesOfNoodles pointed out, Hoid's abilities have been described as 'the same mechanic as Feurchemy.'

I don't think its unreasonable to consider that Elantrians could figure out how to emulate most of the abilities of Feurchemy, not just manipulating connection. Perhaps by studying native Scadrians from the Cognitive realm?

It might not be accurate to actually call it 'Feurchemy,' but we have pretty good proof that there are other people who can do pretty much the same thing.

Edited by Cowmanthethird
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4 hours ago, Cowmanthethird said:

The Ire also mention tapping fortune at one point, and, as @ForcesOfNoodles pointed out, Hoid's abilities have been described as 'the same mechanic as Feurchemy.'

I don't think its unreasonable to consider that Elantrians could figure out how to emulate most of the abilities of Feurchemy, not just manipulating connection. Perhaps by studying native Scadrians from the Cognitive realm?

It might not be accurate to actually call it 'Feurchemy,' but we have pretty good proof that there are other people who can do pretty much the same thing.

OK. I need something explained. How do the medallions from BoM work again? Somehow they let you use a metalmind without being a feruchemist. Isn't it widely accepted on the forum that Hoid might be using something similar? Some sort of unkeyed metalmind that a non-feruchemist can use?

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7 hours ago, Lord Maelstrom said:

OK. I need something explained. How do the medallions from BoM work again? Somehow they let you use a metalmind without being a feruchemist. Isn't it widely accepted on the forum that Hoid might be using something similar? Some sort of unkeyed metalmind that a non-feruchemist can use?

As far as I know, we aren't sure yet exactly how they work. The general idea though, I think, is that you tap nicrosil to give you the abilities, and then store 100% in aluminium (or maybe tap someone else's identity?) to match the correct identity, and the two pieces together allow it to work.

I have seen the theory that Hoid uses a medallion, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me, because of how it's described as 'not actually Feruchemy' a few times in WoBs.

Spoiler

QUESTION

You've mentioned before that Hoid ends up where he needs to be.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, and usually without knowing why.

QUESTION

Is Chromium involved in that?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes. Well, he's not necessarily using Chromium, but the underlying mechanic, yes.

If he was storing fortune in a medallion, chromium would be directly involved, and there's also the problem of his powers predating the medallions.

Edit: Same problem with the Ire mentioning 'tapping fortune,' the medallions didn't exist yet.

Edited by Cowmanthethird
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The Ire's wording, if I remember correctly is "drawing upon Fortune" which could be used for plenty of possible mechanisms we haven't seen. 

They did not say tap. 

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12 minutes ago, Calderis said:

The Ire's wording, if I remember correctly is "drawing upon Fortune" which could be used for plenty of possible mechanisms we haven't seen. 

They did not say tap. 

I couldn't find the exact scene on short notice, but I think you're right about the wording. Either way though, we know that its a similar concept/mechanic.

Quote

Q: As of Secret History, are the IRE aware of Feruchemical chromium?

A: Not as fully aware - They don’t know everything.

Q: The Spiritual Feruchemical metals - are all four of those Cosmere-wide things?

A: The short answer is yes. The long answer is, there are certain things such as Investiture and whatnot, that when we write the books we translate different words as the same word because they’re the same meaning. So what you’re getting it is when they use the word “fortune”, do they mean exactly the Feruchemical, and the answer is no - but it is a very similar concept.

 

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The Ire's Orb is made with "Silverlight's stuff". I believe Silverlight has the tech/magic to manipulate Connections to a degree and the worldhoppers usually uses it to many purpose (for example the omni-language).

The IRE just manage to use it to an extremely extent in the right moment.

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It's spirit web stuff. Not feruchemy, but still spirit web stuff. 

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On 9/25/2017 at 6:58 AM, Lord Maelstrom said:

OK. I need something explained. How do the medallions from BoM work again? Somehow they let you use a metalmind without being a feruchemist. Isn't it widely accepted on the forum that Hoid might be using something similar? Some sort of unkeyed metalmind that a non-feruchemist can use?

 

On 9/25/2017 at 2:25 PM, Cowmanthethird said:

As far as I know, we aren't sure yet exactly how they work. The general idea though, I think, is that you tap nicrosil to give you the abilities, and then store 100% in aluminium (or maybe tap someone else's identity?) to match the correct identity, and the two pieces together allow it to work.

I have seen the theory that Hoid uses a medallion, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me, because of how it's described as 'not actually Feruchemy' a few times in WoBs.

  Reveal hidden contents

QUESTION

You've mentioned before that Hoid ends up where he needs to be.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, and usually without knowing why.

QUESTION

Is Chromium involved in that?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes. Well, he's not necessarily using Chromium, but the underlying mechanic, yes.

If he was storing fortune in a medallion, chromium would be directly involved, and there's also the problem of his powers predating the medallions.

Edit: Same problem with the Ire mentioning 'tapping fortune,' the medallions didn't exist yet.

From what I've read in the books, The Medallions work by tapping raw Investure from the Nicrosil ring. When tapping Investure it gives you the abilities of a Feruchemist and so you can then store attributes into metalminds and then conversely tap any filled metalminds you have. If you used a Triple medallion with Nicrosil, Aluminium and another then you could store Identity in the metalmind while tapping investure and create an unkeyed metalmind to be used by anyone.

Does this clear up how they work? :) 

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24 minutes ago, NegativeG said:

 

From what I've read in the books, The Medallions work by tapping raw Investure from the Nicrosil ring. When tapping Investure it gives you the abilities of a Feruchemist and so you can then store attributes into metalminds and then conversely tap any filled metalminds you have. If you used a Triple medallion with Nicrosil, Aluminium and another then you could store Identity in the metalmind while tapping investure and create an unkeyed metalmind to be used by anyone.

Does this clear up how they work? :) 

Nope. Not really. 

The books just don't give enough info. 

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1 hour ago, Steeldancer said:

Nope. Not really. 

The books just don't give enough info. 

OK, so let me try to explain this in a more bite-sized fashion:

  1.  Tap Nicrosil, and somehow gain the abillities of a Feruchemist (This has been shown to happen, though we aren't sure how it works yet.)
  2.  Fill Aluminum, which stores your Identity, leaving you as a spiritual blank slate.
  3.  Fill a different metalmind, say, Pewter. This metalmind is not keyed to any specific Identity, because the person who created it has no Identity, since theirs is currently filling a metalmind.
  4. Give this metalmind to another person, who then taps Nicrosil to become a Feruchemist.
  5. As a Feruchemist, they can now tap the unkeyed Pewtermind that the first person filled.

Any better?

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The medallion is already an unkeyed metalmind from what I can remember, and the nicrosil stores the ability to use a certain type of metal (e.g. becoming a coinshot or a skimmer). Because of both of these effects, anyone is able to temporarily become a misting or ferring.

With ferrings, the medallions also have charges of metal stored.

Overall, the medallions are unkeyed before anyone uses them anyway, and then they have a band of nicrosil and then a band of the metal correlating to the charges store in the nicrosil, allowing for use of one feruchemical metal temporarily.

Edited by KhanBoltNo4503
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8 hours ago, Fourth Of The Night said:

@KhanBoltNo4503 I specifically was talking about the process of making one of the medallions, to better understand how they work!

Actually the process to make a Medallion is a lot complex and we don't know yet how It is performed.

By the way guys, you are making confusion in the terms.

Unkeyed Metalmind= A Metalmind without Identity associated. It's allow to bypass the Investiture's interference and every Ferring of that metal could tap from that Metalmind regardless he is the creator or not.

Unsealed Metalmind= A Metalmind Who Everybody could tap from regardless the Powers they could have or not.

We know how to craft an Unkeyed Metalmind, It's enough for the Feruchemist to store all' his Identity before to fill the actual future Unkeyed Metalmind (Witch require to him the access to at least 2 Feruchemical Powers).

We don't know how to craft an Unsealed Metalmind. We know manipulate Connections is required and (likely) you Need to performe all' the Step needed for an Unkeyed One. So you need at least three Feruchemical powers to craft a Medallion (+ the Power you want to store).

In essense, a Medallion is Just a Unsealed Nicrosolmind. Usually It's packed together with some unkeyed Metalminds but those are not part of the Medallion's tech, they are there only to provide an attributes' storage for the Medallion's user.

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