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[OB] Oathbringer chapters 10-12

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As usual chapters were great.  There were a few formatting issues with the text that I assume will be fixed.  

I now really want Kal and Shallan to get to get together so Syl and Pattern can cheer them on.  

I am very interested to see what Mr. T does.  His notes said that the blackthorn could be a great ally if he chose the path of the warlord.  Becoming High King of Uthiriru might be enough to satisfy that requirement for the time being and Dalinar believes in Nohadon's idea of forcing the people to behave.  It's not too far to force them to fight the desolation.  Really hope Mr. T becomes an ally.

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1 hour ago, dantlee said:

I wasn't a huge fan of Adolin becoming a KR himself, as I thought that would make the entire Kholin family too conveniently central in the future of Roshar. But alas. 

 

Ehhh. Perfection for Adolin doesn't have to mean him becoming a Radiant. Though it does make it more plausible. Having seen his vision.

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I think it was good to see Renarin from Adolin's point of view again. In fantasy, we're used to seeing those who are "different" but that's often in the context of them being a whole different race (eg elf, dwarf, dragon, whatever) so we expect them to be different - that's part of the charm. From that perspective, it seems a bit unfair to demand that all humans conform to some limited definition of "normal" and that any who don't are treated with distrust and suspicion. That's not always easy of course and can take time, depending upon the situation.

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5 minutes ago, SLNC said:

Perfection for Adolin doesn't have to mean him becoming a Radiant

Well, I think he did just become the Kholin Highprince, right?  He is Dalinar's heir, right?

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9 minutes ago, robardin said:

"We are the Watchers at the Rim"

Oh. No.

 

did you.. mean to do that?

*dies*

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1 minute ago, Stark said:

Well, I think he did just become the Kholin Highprince, right?  He is Dalinar's heir, right?

I do think so.

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1 hour ago, dantlee said:

I wasn't a huge fan of Adolin becoming a KR himself, as I thought that would make the entire Kholin family too conveniently central in the future of Roshar. But alas. 

I don't think that quote has anything to do with Adolin becoming a Radiant. That is a glimpse into how Regrowth, and healing in general, is accomplished through magic. There is a 'Spiritual Ideal' of each person, who they are and who they believe themselves to be. Healing resets what has happened to them to that default, to whatever the Spiritual Ideal looks like at that time. So, Adolin's hand is broken, but his true Spiritual self doesn't have a broken hand, so the Physical changes to match the Spiritual.

This is in contrast with Kaladin, who cannot heal his brands. He has taken those scars as a part of his personhood, as a part of his Spiritual self, so when he heals with Stormlight, they don't disappear. Same for Dalinar and his old scars; Stormlight won't heal them, because he is accustomed to them as part of him.

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4 minutes ago, Stark said:

Well, I think he did just become the Kholin Highprince, right?  He is Dalinar's heir, right?

Pretty sure he did. Doesn't this make him near immune to any legal consequences for Sadeas's death?

I'm always more convinced that the investigation will be more about futhering Adolin's character development than the plot.

 

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1 minute ago, Pagerunner said:

I don't think that quote has anything to do with Adolin becoming a Radiant. That is a glimpse into how Regrowth, and healing in general, is accomplished through magic. There is a 'Spiritual Ideal' of each person, who they are and who they believe themselves to be. Healing resets what has happened to them to that default, to whatever the Spiritual Ideal looks like at that time. So, Adolin's hand is broken, but his true Spiritual self doesn't have a broken hand, so the Physical changes to match the Spiritual.

This is in contrast with Kaladin, who cannot heal his brands. He has taken those scars as a part of his personhood, as a part of his Spiritual self, so when he heals with Stormlight, they don't disappear. Same for Dalinar and his old scars; Stormlight won't heal them, because he is accustomed to them as part of him.

Well, it's Cognitive, not Spiritual Aspects involved here, but I agree with you that it's not necessarily anything about Radiancy. 

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I'm afraid Elhokar is up for another disappointment. Kaladin is already on his way to Kholinar. Without Elhokar. 

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What I'm wondering about are requirements to become a KR. Like, how much of who you were in the past affects your chances. Because I had a thought. Dalinar is missing memories of his wife, and something else. Would he have been able to become a bondsmith if he still had the memories? Would he have made the same decisions, been the same person?    ... Cultivation can see the future, after all

 

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Boy howdy... Kaladin the sex symbol... That chapter had me imagining posters of Kaladin modelling fancy suits and watches with perfect stubble on those posters at bus stops :P gave me a hearty chuckle.

Edited by Asrael
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Quote

He looked out at the sea of eager faces, and couldn’t help but remember a similar day in Hearthstone where he and the rest of the townspeople had waited, eager to catch a glimpse of their new citylord.

My pal Kaladin, showing the brightlords of Roshar how it's done

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10 minutes ago, Stark said:

Well, I think he did just become the Kholin Highprince, right?  He is Dalinar's heir, right?

Oh Shoot your right ! Investigation the murder plus elevation to High prince.  With the current assignment of high princes to war, information, trade etc. Dalinar was War.

Any idea what position that would but Adolin in ? High prince of information since he is already investigating?

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Edit: posted twice by accident. Left the other one. 

Edited by Musica
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5 minutes ago, yulerule said:

What I'm wondering about are requirements to become a KR. Like, how much of who you were in the past affects your chances. Because I had a thought. Dalinar is missing memories of his wife, and something else. Would he have been able to become a bondsmith if he still had the memories? Would he have made the same decisions, been the same person?    ... Cultivation can see the future, after all

I've wondered this too, but then I remember that Gavilar was first in line before him to receive the visions from the Stormfather, which a WoB somewhere has confirmed meant that Gavilar was on the Path of the Bondsmith like Dalinar ultimately went down. Yet as we see in the Eshonai prologue to Oathbringer, he was also a key figure in the Sons of Honor; and to your point, not obviously "broken", just "changing".

What cracks in the soul did Gavilar develop? Guilt over the violence he dealt? Something else?

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Let's talk about Highking Dalinar.  By the numbers.

1.  Kholin Princedom.  This looks like it will go to Adolin, as Dalinar's heir.  Reasonable, and Dalinar really doesn't have time to administer it.  Of course, we know that Alethi work in pairs (similar to parshendi, amusingly), and Adolin's causal-betrothed is not likely to be free to help Adolin see to the administration of the princedom.

2.  Position as Highprince of War.  Is that going to go to Adolin, as well?  It seems obvious, if a bit uninspired.  Same problems as (1) are involved.

3.  The Investigation.  Adolin was directed to investigate by the Highprince of War/de facto King.  He is now Highprince.  Will he designate a new investigator, and how will that work for him?  I am guessing poorly.

4.  Urithiru.  Anyone else uncomfortable with a KR being placed in a monarchial position?  What right do the Bondsmiths have to claim the region, as opposed to a council of the Orders?  Also, what will happen when another Bondsmith arises?

5.  Elhokar.  This was a pretty shrewd move by him, if it was intended to be a reconsolidation of power.  Even if not, it has potential to cause trouble later.

 

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7 minutes ago, yulerule said:

What I'm wondering about are requirements to become a KR. Like, how much of who you were in the past affects your chances. Because I had a thought. Dalinar is missing memories of his wife, and something else. Would he have been able to become a bondsmith if he still had the memories? Would he have made the same decisions, been the same person?    ... Cultivation can see the future, after all

 

he definitely would not have been the same person. However, how different would he have been? the fact that he choose to ask for erasing some of his memories shows he was already conflicted - indeed, today's flashback shows that he was starting to become conflicted already by now. So it's unclear how much the memory wipe made dalinar change, and how much it simply helped him along.

1 minute ago, Asrael said:

Boy howdy... Kaladin the sex symbol... That chapter had me imagining posters of Kaladin modelling fancy suits and watches with perfect stubble on those posters at bus stops :P gave me a heart chuckle.

And glowing. Let us not forget about the glowing.

1 minute ago, PunSpren said:

Oh Shoot your right ! Investigation the murder plus elevation to High prince.  With the current assignment of high princes to war, information, trade etc. Dalinar was War.

Any idea what position that would but Adolin in ? High prince of information since he is already investigating?

Rigth; if adolin inherits the place of highprince of war, the investigation should go to the highprince of information. I doubt adolin would get an appointment only to have it revoked after a few chapters, though. let's not forget one thing: the king made a decision, but it's not official yet. it will be a while before it's actually finalized.

So, that means that the whole "investigation" business will have a resolution pretty soon?

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20 minutes ago, Elena said:

did you.. mean to do that?

*dies*

Journey before destination, my dear... ;)

(What if Syl just chants the First Ideal at Kaladin while he's in action? LOL)

Edited by robardin
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1 hour ago, Elena said:

BRING ON THE KALADIN/ELHOKAR BUDDY COMEDY WE ALL DESERVE

#elhokarsredemption2k17

Kaladin as a combination of Riggs and Murtaugh. Elokhar as Joe Pesci from lethal weapon 2. Syl as Chris Rock from LW 4...

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4 minutes ago, robardin said:

I've wondered this too, but then I remember that Gavilar was first in line before him to receive the visions from the Stormfather, which a WoB somewhere has confirmed meant that Gavilar was on the Path of the Bondsmith like Dalinar ultimately went down. Yet as we see in the Eshonai prologue to Oathbringer, he was also a key figure in the Sons of Honor; and to your point, not obviously "broken", just "changing".

What cracks in the soul did Gavilar develop? Guilt over the violence he dealt? Something else?

well, the flashback implies that gavilar was starting to change already. we don't know, however, how exactly he changed. discovering his involvment with the sons of honor certainly gave a completely different twist to it

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15 minutes ago, Nashan'Elin said:

Well, it's Cognitive, not Spiritual Aspects involved here, but I agree with you that it's not necessarily anything about Radiancy. 

Gold Feruchemists heal their body to match their spiritual ideal. I think it is indeed the spiritual ideal of himself that Adolin is seeing as his Physical body is brought into alignment with it.

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