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[OB] Odium's champion


fyodor

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3 hours ago, Stark said:

 

My bet is on Elhokar of the nine shadows becoming the champion of Odium that could destroy Dalinar better than any other, not through strength of arm, but by attacking Dalinar's guilt, and relationship to his new wife.

I was initially thinking that it would likely be one of the listeners. In WOR Eshonai's mother tells her the song of the Last Legion, that escaped their forms of power, for the freedom of dull form. This reminded me of how Marsh was controlled by Ruin. I don't think that Brandon would repeat the same plot element by making one of the listeners the champion. It must be one of the human cast members, and I think Elhokar is a good, bet. He sees faces in the mirror and is being haunted by something, I thought initially cryptics, but why would we see another Lightweaver? We haven't really seen two members of the same order yet (except for Ym and Renarin), so maybe these were Odium or one of the Unmade. It is definitely a plot point left up in the air.

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On 9/17/2017 at 9:48 PM, hoidhunter said:

I have a suspicion that it is going to be Moash.  

There is a scene in WoK when he is practicing with the spear in a chasm, by the light of a dozen spheres, and he is described as having an equal number of shadows. I know that it is far from definitive, it may not even be foreshadowing since the number of shadows is different. Its just a scene that made me think of the possibility, and after pondering the idea, it seemed to fit. While he and Moash were friends, they were also opposites. Kaladin wanted to excel at fighting in order to save people, Moash to kill them. I could keep listing examples...but the list goes on. Btw...he also has shardplate.

As the singular connector pointed out, Brandon likes to develop his important characters. It would be an interesting plot development to have these two, once friends, stand toe to toe, in the battle for roshar.

Do we know what Cultivation's number is? There could be a third shard in play here.

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hei... here's a crazy idea. I was thinking at the black sphere Gavilar showed Eshonai in the prologue , the same one Szeth took and hid in Jah Keved after he killed the king (if i remember right ).

Quote

She stared at that terrible light, and—from the songs—knew it for what it was. The forms of power had been associated with a dark light, a light from the king of gods.

Could this be something along the lines of a sphere with Stormlight for a KR, but for Odium's champion? Or related to him somehow? I don't know if there have been any off-book informations about that sphere. Maybe I'm just fishing :blink:

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She stared at that terrible light, and—from the songs—knew it for what it was. The forms of power had been associated with a dark light, a light from the king of gods.

This is curious, given the light we got in Chapter One. We've likened that "harsh, golden light" to the sun. The sun is many things, but not dark.

On 9/19/2017 at 3:43 PM, mariapapadia said:

I was thinking at the black sphere Gavilar showed Eshonai in the prologue, the same one Szeth took and hid in Jah Keved after he killed the king (if I remember right).

Gavilar has the line of "I've got another" when offering the sphere to Eshonai in the prologue reading Brandon did a long while back at one of the signings. IIRC, that line was cut from the final version of the prologue. The line being cut does not necessarily mean that his "another one" suddenly stopped existing.

That should be resolved sometime in the next three books, as Brandon said we would know what the sphere is by the end of Book 3, and the Main PoV's of Books 4&5 are the two people offered the Spheres: Eshonai and Szeth.

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On 9/18/2017 at 11:40 AM, Sliverofnone said:

I thought initially cryptics, but why would we see another Lightweaver?

I can't find it right now, but I remember seeing a WoB to the effect that Cryptics like to spy on important people to stay current on political affairs. So, it's possible that Elhokar saw Cryptics because he's king and not because he's a potential Lightweaver.

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5 minutes ago, Salkara said:

I can't find it right now, but I remember seeing a WoB to the effect that Cryptics like to spy on important people to stay current on political affairs. So, it's possible that Elhokar saw Cryptics because he's king and not because he's a potential Lightweaver.

Yep. The fact that Shallan first accidentally drew a Cryptic in Taravangian's portrait was just a coincidence...

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  • Argent changed the title to [OB] Odium's champion
  • 2 months later...

I feel like no one in this post has actually read the Oathbringer book because it very clearly says Dalinar is Odiums champion,  always was and that Odium was simply waiting for Dalinar to ask for the challenge of champions in urnest bc Odium cant take him by force and the second Dalinar admits the challenge of champions is what he wants in truth. Odium tries to claim him.

Then while Dalinar confronts Odium. Odium says flat out he'd picked his champion already long ago, and then says he groomed Dalinar to be it.

Furthermore Ranarin is ready to die instead of having to see the vision of his father in black armor with 9 shadows come to pass . He even names him blackthorn (in case anyone wants to argue Ranarin isn't Dalinars child)

  Then when the One of the Fused brings Odium the kings drop (i think its called, the perfect ruby), the fused brings it to him and  ask if odium had been watching dalinar all along to which odium says yes long before you (the fused). I dont see anyway out of it....(if you do please point it out) .

The champion has been named  and has broken free of Odiums influence.... this thread should be dead. 

Also to address the infamous back book cover.

One of them may redeem us.

And one of them will destroy us

Destroy can mean many things as perceived by different views. i can destroy a book by soaking it in a bucket of ink so it could never be read, effectively destroying it  without completely wiping the book from existence... u can destroy by removing a things purpose or by forcibly changing a things status into something new. So  I would argue Dalinar has already destroyed Roshar by the end of Oathbringer as both human society and parshendi society has fallen. Venlis chapters show us that her people are gone as well. replaced by the fused.

DESTROY US not the world....

 Dalinar then started destroying us during his years as "blackthorn"   Team Kohlin united highprinces by right on conquest ( US destroying and being destroyed) which in turn allowed for the contest on the shattered plains ( more of US being destroyed) which in turn allowed for the everstorm to come into being which in turn allowed for the human citys to fall. Human civilization as we know it has been destroyed...

All that remains unknown is who will redeem us and how.

-Maybe Dalinar by uniting humans and parshendi, thus giving the world WE took back to the parshendi type of redemption

-Maybe Szeth with nightblood, you know that sword that wants to kill evil but doesnt know what evil is, and is now in the hands of a man who is Oathbound to follow Dalinar bc he believes Dalinar isnt "the wrong type of man"  (aka evil)......"like those hed been forced to follow". 

The champion has been named  and has broken free of Odiums influence.... this thread should be dead. 

Edited by Epicnolife
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2 hours ago, Epicnolife said:

oh my lol makes sense bc the dates i see that now., i missed that. im very sorry. feeling dumb right now. i excitedly jumped right in assuming anything with OB tag was post release, tyvm for your response Calderis

No worries. And don't feel to bad. I think we've all done something similar when first joining. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 2:22 PM, Varenus said:

While rereading some of the Way of Kings epigraphs, I noticed this deathrattle:

From Chapter 54.

I assumed that this was in reference to Taln's continued torture in damnation. Where the "nine" are the other heralds, "madness" is Taln being tortured, and "release me" is Taln wanting to leave damnation for obvious reasons.

However, it could also be describing Odium's champion. Where the "burden of nine" is the Unmade, the "madness of them all" seems like an apt description of nine immensely powerful spren whispering in your ear. And if the champion is chosen against their will, "Almighty, release me" would also make a lot of sense. 

Also, I hate to be that one guy, but the "A baby is Odium's champion" theory also has new merit with the arrival of Kaladin's brother Oroden. I would hate for it to be true, but the infamous epigraph:

from chapter 57, refers to the child as a him. 

These two death deathrattles also seem to imply something about a tragedy involving a brother/child: 

  from chapter 3, and 

from chapter 52. Like I said, if the champion turns out to be Oroden, or any baby for that matter, I will throw my book out a window into a woodchipper and I hope I am just over analyzing the epigraphs.

With a revival of this debate with the new information we have, I really like this idea A LOT. And by like I mean hate. But I love how much I hate it. Oroden being Odium's champion would be so twistedly tragic and also the ultimate trial for Kaladin. Plus, I feel like these deathrattles really line up with the idea.

There are a few problems with the idea to be fair. First of all, he is a baby right now. Kinda hard to fight a war like that. Also, why would Odium choose him over all the other candidates? In order for this to work we would need either a 15-odd-year gap between a book or some sort of accelerated aging process for Oroden.

Still, my favorite idea on here so far. Probably not the most likely, but I still love it.

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1 hour ago, Obnoxiousspren said:

In order for this to work we would need either a 15-odd-year gap between a book or some sort of accelerated aging process for Oroden.

While admittedly I absolutely hate this idea, we do have a 10 - 15 year gap between SA 5 and 6.

Make of that what you will. 

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