fyodor

[OB] Odium's champion

38 posts in this topic

“The enemy’s champion,” Dalinar said, eyes narrowing. “In the visions, Honor told me our best chance of survival involved forcing Odium to accept a contest of champions. I’ve seen the enemy’s champion—a creature in black armor, with red eyes. A parshman perhaps. It had nine shadows.”

Nearby, Renarin had turned toward his father, eyes wide, jaw dropping. Nobody else seemed to notice."

Any thoughts on this? I'm assuming that because Dalinar jumped to the conclusion that it was a Parshman, that it won't be a parshman. Significance of the nine shadows? One of the heralds, with the the nine shadows being the other nine? Why did Renarin gasp? something he saw in a vision, I assume?

 

Edited by fyodor
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, fyodor said:

I'm assuming that because Dalinar jumped to the conclusion that it was a Parshman, that it won't be a parshman.

We have no clue yet. There's plenty of speculation but it could be pretty much anyone. 

34 minutes ago, fyodor said:

Significance of the nine shadows? One of the heralds, with the the nine shadows being the other nine?

The Stormfather answers this in the chapter that he saw the vision of the champion. It's the Nine Unmade. 

35 minutes ago, fyodor said:

Why did Renarin gasp? something he saw in a vision, I assume?

Whether he saw the same vision as Dalinar or another, it's currently the only way it could have been recognized. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't rule out parshmen just yet, in terms of hatred, former slaves likely had quite a bit of that built up towards cruel masters.  Also, we don't know enough yet to about parshmen and their ability to bond spren.  If parshmen cannot bond honorspren and the like, would it not also make sense that humans might not be able to bind Odium's spren?  Or perhaps humans might have additional requirements, like Kal can only bond Syl so long as he keeps to his oaths, and she was attracted to him because of his desire to protect.  If the same is true, someone would have to become sufficiently hateful to be able to bond such a spren.

My personal top 3 all happen to be human, but only for narrative reasons and statistically we know more humans.

1) Moash - he is a character who has a lot of anger, especially towards light eyes, he was even able to essentially bring himself to almost kill Kal to achieve his goals.  Kal has also described him as similar to himself and also a killer.  For narrative reasons, this would make a great foil to Kal, and would cause Kal a lot of pain fighting him.

2) Adolin - I know this is a trendy pick right now, but hear me out for a second.  We've spent a lot of time with Adolin, and that exposure makes us like him to a large extent.  Also hes extremely competent in combat, which would make him great for a fight/champion in a duel scenario.  He also has a lot to lose, and this is the key.  He starts the series in a high place(women love him, he's his father's favorite son(presumably), he has everything).  With Kal becoming a KR, hes kind of getting upstaged, even Shallan has really upstaged him.  Read at the end of WoR about how Adolin thinks her status will change their relationship.  What if she starts becoming interested in Kal?  Or Kal starts to take some of the limelight from him being the 'protector'?  They are currently friendly, but I could see jealousy become like a twist of the knife and drive Adolin to be increasingly resentful of Kal, and increasingly extreme in trying to impress his father(he might also see that even when Sadeas betrayed him, Dalinar continued to respect Sadeas, and that might be his justification for crossing over eventually).  The whole murder thing I only see as a catalyst to start the journey downward (brings shame to his father, is forced to lie to Shallan and others to hide it, begins to drive a wedge that isolates him from others and even though he drives the wedge he will become bitter over it).  Essentially, Adolin is a candidate because he has a lot to lose, hes not my number 1 because he still has a long way to fall to get to a place where this might happen, but definitely has been set up with that kind of potential, not to mention if Dalinar was forced to fight him, or Kal, would really conflict our protagonist's emotions.  Also, Renarin with his ability to see the future could see Adolin as the champion, and would be a reason for him to be very concerned.

3) Tanavast - This one is really reaching, but my thought here is that the oathpact was something to the effect of a wager between Honor and Odium, where if Odium could defeat him, he would serve him(being honor, he would be bound by his word).  Such a powerful draw would be enough to keep Odium occupied, and interested in such a bargain.  In turn, Tanavast creates the heralds and tells them how to defeat him.  There are also people who see the heralds as being corrupted, but what if they were bound to the unmade(ancient spren) who are essentially their opposites.  This would explain why thus far we've only seen one dark sphere(Gavilar had it before he died), as its really Tanavast, and the other 9 heralds are holding the 9 unmade.  Also, betrayal is a powerful emotion, usually causing hatred.  Could Tanavast be hateful of humanity for betraying him after all he's done for them?  I've seen the theory that Noadon or Jezrien could be the champion, but i just don't see it as they've been around.  I see the Tanavast reveal as something like the Darth Vader reveal as Luke's father, and Obiwan answers that Vader murdered Anakin is true "from a certain point of view".  Also, we don't know the effect of giving up a shard would have.  My thought is that he surrendered it and Odium splintered it, but it had sufficiently changed Tanavast to where he retained his personality of honor.  

 

Other thoughts.  

1) In every one of Brandon's books, we know the main antagonist of the series(in mistborn, Marsh becomes the champion of Ruin to make him more relateable), so we will most likely know whoever takes up this mantle(even the Lord Ruler was characterized for us before we met him, I could see Tanavast used this way).

2) I fully expect the heralds to show up at some point at Urithuru and shed a lot more light on this, perhaps even taking over leadership of their respective orders and trying to cleanse themselves.

3) The arrival of the skybreakers will likely be a turning point in the Adolin arc, because their ability to discern guilt will pin things down on Adolin where he will be exposed.  Also with Szeth's history with everyone, his return will make everyone distrustful of him and cause a lot of friction, especially with Kal, who i imagine will need to learn to stand aside from Adolin's defense because its the right thing to do(I get this more from the "I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right", which implies that this may have an opposite when it is wrong but I'm reaching here).  It would make for a great 2nd act shake up, especially if Adolin appears to have his secret kept by finding the copycat and bringing them to trial.  The copycat would provide a great scapegoat, and allow Adolin to conceal his offense easily.

4) The nature of hatred has a lot to do with caring about things.  Very personal things, like betrayal, jealousy, resentment, would be the primary drivers of a character's descent into hatred.  as per my examples, Moash is already full of hate, especially for light eyes, and is my leading choice among the humans thus far, but I see Adolin with a lot to lose, and could eventually wind up here.  Tanavast is a reach, but would make an interesting plot point and could possibly be redeemed/freed which him in mortal form(assuming he cant take up his shard again as it is splintered, although the idea of dawnshards(this lines up with my personal interpertation of the oathpact causing Tanavast to serve Odium, splintering his own shard and giving it to help the heralds reign him in) being pieces of the shard and being able to be reunited and recreate the shard would give a totally double meaning to Dalinar's mission of "Unite them")

My first real post here, but I've been a long time reader and lurker.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While rereading some of the Way of Kings epigraphs, I noticed this deathrattle:

Quote
“The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me.”

From Chapter 54.

I assumed that this was in reference to Taln's continued torture in damnation. Where the "nine" are the other heralds, "madness" is Taln being tortured, and "release me" is Taln wanting to leave damnation for obvious reasons.

However, it could also be describing Odium's champion. Where the "burden of nine" is the Unmade, the "madness of them all" seems like an apt description of nine immensely powerful spren whispering in your ear. And if the champion is chosen against their will, "Almighty, release me" would also make a lot of sense. 

Also, I hate to be that one guy, but the "A baby is Odium's champion" theory also has new merit with the arrival of Kaladin's brother Oroden. I would hate for it to be true, but the infamous epigraph:

Quote

“I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw.”

from chapter 57, refers to the child as a him. 

These two death deathrattles also seem to imply something about a tragedy involving a brother/child: 

Quote

“A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears.”

  from chapter 3, and 

Quote

“I’m standing over the body of a brother. I’m weeping. Is that his blood or mine? What have we done?”

from chapter 52. Like I said, if the champion turns out to be Oroden, or any baby for that matter, I will throw my book out a window into a woodchipper and I hope I am just over analyzing the epigraphs.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Varenus said:

However, it could also be describing Odium's champion. Where the "burden of nine" is the Unmade, the "madness of them all" seems like an apt description of nine immensely powerful Spren whispering in your ear. And if the champion is chosen against their will, "Almighty, release me" would also make a lot of sense. 

I like this. It's not what we'd immediately expect, which, to me, would be a point in favor.

Doesn't prevent a current good guy becoming the champion so nobody else has to, so one of the theories I currently like is still valid(if a little shakier). It would change "Almighty, release me" to refer to regretting the decision to bear that burden.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

I like this. It's not what we'd immediately expect, which, to me, would be a point in favor.

Doesn't prevent a current good guy becoming the champion so nobody else has to, so one of the theories I currently like is still valid(if a little shakier). It would change "Almighty, release me" to refer to regretting the decision to bear that burden.

I like your interpritation of the "Release me" quote. Where you thinking of someone specific becoming said champion? And from who would they be taking the burden from?

under the circumstances you out line, the champion could be anyone with someone they desired to protect. The person who springs to mind most readily would be Kaladin as a Windrunner.

A random thought only tangentially related: The Dustbringers were known as releasers, right? Perhaps they can use their surge of division to separate or muddle spren bonds and other forms of connection? So, like the opposite of what I imagine a Bondsmith could do.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everybody is looking amongst the humans to find Odium's champion. We have one person though who is working toward Odium's goals since at least 6(7 now?) years: Venli.

She was there when Szeth was bought to assassinate Gavilar in the end, she collected stormspren and probably secretly bonded one long before Eshonai went into the storm to see what it does. Venli betrayed her people who fought so hard to stay independent of their gods of old and suffered greatly for that. In the end, her machinations brought on the Everstorm and with it the next Desolation.

Perhaps she seems too obvious, but sometimes the obvious is just what it is.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Varenus said:

Where you thinking of someone specific becoming said champion? And from who would they be taking the burden from?

Well, there was this one theory about Dalinar... (that I can't find at the moment(just what did I say in that post?))

They wouldn't be taking the burden from someone else, but taking it to prevent someone else from having it. Making the noble sacrifice and becoming the villain in the scenario so that a person who's actually evil doesn't become a villain.

We know that Dalinar needs to unite the world, and he's probably gonna end up having to do some of it by force. Good intentions or no, a general rule of thumb is when you try to unite the world through force, you often unite the rest of the world against you, like what happened in both World Wars here on Earth. Dalinar needs to unite them against Odium, an enemy that they can't see. That means forcing those that don't buy it into line, which I've already stated is a big no-no. So Dalinar could embark on the path of giving them an enemy that they can see, a threat that everyone can rally against(Brandon has said that Blackthorn Dalinar would've been one of the most dangerous figures in the world). He should understands how unity by force breeds rebellion, and if he'd unite them against himself, why not take advantage of the situation?

A skilled writer can have a character take the path of "noble goal(like unity) is the only goal that matters" and have them slowly become the villain in pursuit of peace. There's a good example of this in the Star Wars Expanded Universe, where the main character's motivations and goals get largely set in stone early on, but where they would stand on the scales of good/evil  &  hero/villain shift around as the story progresses. There were times where I'd consider their actions as evil, but everything else about them screams "hero," and there were times where I questioned who was really the "good guy."

It was a wonderful change of pace from the "Republic is good, Empire/Separatists/Other are bad" plot that permeates all of Star Wars, and I've been dying to get more stories like that. Dalinar struck me as one of the few characters that could actually be used to convincingly pull something like this off. Another character that somewhat fit the bill was Mistborn Spoilers:

Spoiler
On 6/30/2017 at 0:57 PM, The One Who Connects said:

Calling TLR a hero may have been a bit too far, but he was, like Taravangian, a relatable villain who wasn't expressly trying to be evil, but "helpful" in a way that works: force. They hid the truth about Ruin/Odium to avoid mass panic, and took charge to prevent the situation from worsening. Being a leader means making the hard choices, and sometimes you aren't always the good guy.

The Lord Ruler is one of the best examples in recent memory of the "die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" trope

We never saw that from his perspective, only as backstory. My idea would be Brandon doing that story as an actual story, with Dalinar following the dark path out of necessity. To quote The Diagram: "Humanity must survive. All other concerns are but dust by comparison."

15 hours ago, Pattern said:

Everybody is looking amongst the humans to find Odium's champion. We have one person though who is working toward Odium's goals since at least 6(7 now?) years: Venli.

I'll withhold my full opinion on Venli's future until Eshonai's book comes out. I highly doubt that her story was ended at the Battle of Narak, but I'm not sure Champion is where she's heading.

The main reason we end up picking human characters is because we know more human characters than non-humans at this point in the story. Unless the champion is a character we haven't even seen yet, the odds are heavily stacked towards a human(assuming we picked a name from a hat, of course)

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

Unless the champion is a character we haven't even seen yet, the odds are heavily stacked towards a human(assuming we picked a name from a hat, of course)

I guess Odium does not pull the name out of a hat.

Especially he has a whole lot of voidbringers (formerly known as Parshmen and Parshendi) to chose from now. Eshonai was still fighting the voidspren influence in her, so perhaps she will come back as free Listener. She is an explorer by heart and perhaps she finds a way to get rid of her voidspren.

Venli, on the other hand, even deceived her sister in regard to the spren she was supposed to bond. Odiums influence in her has been strong for a long time, thus she has all lights blinking around her to be chosen as champion.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do agree that Venli seems more likely than Eshonai if the champion is a Parshendi. But Eshonai is more of a warrior already, so there's that to think about. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Pattern said:

I guess Odium does not pull the name out of a hat.

I know that he doesn't, but without enough proper clues, we essentially would be. That's why our guesses are primarily human. Most all the non-humans we've met(Venli being an exception) don't seem the "enemy champion" type. But large swaths of our human cast has those attributes in spades.

11 minutes ago, Pattern said:

Odium's influence in her has been strong for a long time, thus she has all lights blinking around her to be chosen as champion.

This is why I want to wait until after book 4 to judge her chances. If this were Well of Ascension(Book 2 of 3), I would consider those blinking lights to be a good sign. But this is book 2 of 10. Venli has had less than 25 pages of screentime out of 2,000 so far, and already has several blinking lights.

To quote Kwaan's Inscription: "It seemed that he fit the signs, true. But, well, how can I explain this? Could it be that he fit them too well?"

1 minute ago, Andy92 said:

I do agree that Venli seems more likely than Eshonai if the champion is a Parshendi. But Eshonai is more of a warrior already, so there's that to think about. 

As Maxal has pointed out in the past, who says it will be a battle of blades? It could be a contest of willpower, or stratagem, or anything else.

Edited by The One Who Connects
Andy replied
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

As Maxal has pointed out in the past, who says it will be a battle of blades? It could be a contest of willpower, or stratagem, or anything else.

While I can't really find some piece of evidence to really disagree, Dalinar does see a Champion in black Shardplate which seems to suggest a warrior of some sort. 

Only other thing I've got is that anything outside a battle seems kinda...lame lol. I get what you're saying in that there are different ways to spin what the Champion would actually do. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Andy92 said:

Only other thing I've got is that anything outside a battle seems kinda...lame lol. I get what you're saying in that there are different ways to spin what the Champion would actually do.

I suppose feeling lame is a fair complaint. Although even if the Champions don't fight, everybody else will. That mega-battle could be a contest of stratagem actually, with the champs being military minds, but not fighters. That'd probably meet the "subverted expectations" quota and satisfy your warmongering ways :P


If we wanted to go the realm of proper combat, then Odium should pick Dalinar(one of the most dangerous men on Rosher). If we wanted to go in the realm of magical combat, I don't see much beating Szeth(Kal beat him because he broke Szeth's willpower). The problem with those scenarios is that we can pick an objective "best" candidate and Odium can work to get that best on his side without much resistance since Honor is dead.

If Odium can't just possess someone to have a champion, then he won't have the best fighter. It is thus in his favor to manipulate the contest into something more in his champion's wheelhouse. If the "second-best" is someone already under Odium's control, it is now in Honor's favor to pull the fine print on Odium to change the contest into something Honor's champion is good at in case our best fighter dies/turn evil/get injured, etc..

We as a fanbase put too much stock in what we know. The Everstorm didn't happen last time, so it stands to reason that the Champion issue won't be resolved in the same was as last time.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

I suppose feeling lame is a fair complaint. Although even if the Champions don't fight, everybody else will. That mega-battle could be a contest of stratagem actually, with the champs being military minds, but not fighters. That'd probably meet the "subverted expectations" quota and satisfy your warmongering ways :P

I can live with that. :D

Actually makes sense too, with the Champion leading The Unmade and their armies with another leader at the front of the KR. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

The Everstorm didn't happen last time, so it stands to reason that the Champion issue won't be resolved in the same was as last time.

Actually, I don't think there has ever been a champion before. Honor said that having a contest between champions was one of the few ways Dalinar and the new Radiants could defeat Odium. Why would Odium expose himself by appointing a champion willingly? Especially when Roshar was so much stronger with the Heralds, a good number of Radiants, the Dawn Shards(whatever those are), and Honor himself. Perhaps its just my interpretation, but I think that having a champion is a bigger liability than it is an asset, and that Odium will only do so if he is somehow bullied into it or if he is sure he is going to win and wants to deliver the killing blow. 

Quote

I suppose feeling lame is a fair complaint. Although even if the Champions don't fight, everybody else will. That mega-battle could be a contest of stratagem actually, with the champs being military minds, but not fighters. That'd probably meet the "subverted expectations" quota and satisfy your warmongering way

Think that this would be a more practical application of Odium's champion. Sure Odium's champion will be incredibly powerful, but Honor has all but promised us a way out of it. So, if a champion was appointed, I think that Dalinar and friends would have a harder time against a "hive-mind" champion who controls Odium's army of voidbringers from a more secure position.  

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ever since the champion was first mentioned in WoK, I had always thought it would simply be Odium's most skilled warrior. Maybe the captain of his forces on Braize who he carts in for the fight?  This was still my thought in OB when Dalinar sees him in the vision. It would sure be an interesting development if it turned out to be someone currently on the good side, but I didn't even consider that until visiting this forum. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Varenus said:

Actually, I don't think there has ever been a champion before.

"Last time" being the last time it happened in Brandon's books. Last time Shards appointed Champions, they fought one on one. I would rather Brandon subvert our expectations and have it be different this time.

18 hours ago, Varenus said:

Perhaps its just my interpretation, but I think that having a champion is a bigger liability than it is an asset.

It's not just you. It's the truth. Odium has to be put in a situation where he thinks risking a Champion is the safer choice. Odium has the initiative, meaning he moves first and the good guys are forced to react. The good guys have to pull off something unexpected, and put Odium on the defensive.

"If you continue to allow this war to be fought on the Empire's terms, you are going to lose." -Saw Gererra

9 hours ago, Insightful Koloss said:

It would sure be an interesting development if it turned out to be someone currently on the good side, but I didn't even consider that until visiting this forum.

Those theories mostly have to do with how Brandon develops characters. He isn't just going to introduce a random new character as Odium's champion at the last second. Brandon loves foreshadowing and complex characters. It's not in his nature to have important characters(like a Champion) be one-dimensional.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a suspicion that it is going to be Moash.  

There is a scene in WoK when he is practicing with the spear in a chasm, by the light of a dozen spheres, and he is described as having an equal number of shadows. I know that it is far from definitive, it may not even be foreshadowing since the number of shadows is different. Its just a scene that made me think of the possibility, and after pondering the idea, it seemed to fit. While he and Moash were friends, they were also opposites. Kaladin wanted to excel at fighting in order to save people, Moash to kill them. I could keep listing examples...but the list goes on. Btw...he also has shardplate.

As the singular connector pointed out, Brandon likes to develop his important characters. It would be an interesting plot development to have these two, once friends, stand toe to toe, in the battle for roshar.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, hoidhunter said:

As the singular connector pointed out,

That's a new one. :)

32 minutes ago, hoidhunter said:

There is a scene in WoK when he is practicing with the spear in a chasm, by the light of a dozen spheres, and he is described as having an equal number of shadows

Never noticed this before. I happen to have my book next to me today. Do you happen to know what chapter this was?

Edit: @hoidhunter I found it. Chapter 63

Quote

The most skilled were Skar and Moash. In fact, Moash was surprisingly good. Kaladin walked to the side, watching the hawk-faced man. He was focuesed, eyes intense, jaw set. He moved in attack after attack, the dozen spheres giving him an equal number of shadows.

I never noticed this before. Good eye, even if it doesn't end up meaning much.

Edited by The One Who Connects
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, hoidhunter said:

I have a suspicion that it is going to be Moash. 

The biggest issue I have with Moash being the Champion is Dalinar's familiarity. While it's possible Dalinar has seen Moash while he was one of Bridge Four, I don't think it would be enough for Dalinar to recognize Moash from the eyes alone. I feel like it either has to be someone Dalinar is very familiar with or Dalinar himself.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am going left field and saying Elhokar.  The nephew who tries, and tries, and tries, and keeps failing.  Dalinar's Tien.  The king who is so bad at Kinging that he gave up his throne, however temporarily, to a one-armed Herdazien.  The one who is so paranoid about the voices he hears and faces he sees in the mirrors that those close to him stop taking him seriously.

 

He is Gavilar's rightful heir, but he does not hold a candle to his sister.  His wife is a disaster.  His kingship is in such shambles that people would rather go to his crazy uncle than him.  Even his useless cousin is now more relevant than him, as the first Truthwatcher in centuries, that we know of.  And then his uncle marries his mother.

 

So many different seeds of resentment planted by necessity, I can see him easily growing to hate Dalinar and his sons, as well as those that protect him.  The head of his bodyguard almost allowed a plot to assassinate him to succeed.  No one values him, and many see him as a joke, despite his ability with the plate and blade.

 

A lot of people are looking at Renarin because he is creepy.  I am looking at Elhokar because he has a lot to resent, some justifiably.  And it is really easy for resentment to blossom into hatred.  Especially if that which you resent makes perfect sense, and is justifiable.  Elhokar is losing his grip on everything that is his by right of birth by degrees, and there is nothing that he can do about it.  And those responsible have nothing to say but "Oops.  I know we shouldn't have, it was an accident, we did not mean to.  But done is done, and it just is more efficient this way.  So we are going to keep doing it.  No hard feelings?"

 

And no spren has bonded him.

 

My bet is on Elhokar of the nine shadows becoming the champion of Odium that could destroy Dalinar better than any other, not through strength of arm, but by attacking Dalinar's guilt, and relationship to his new wife.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Salkara said:

The biggest issue I have with Moash being the Champion is Dalinar's familiarity. While it's possible Dalinar has seen Moash while he was one of Bridge Four, I don't think it would be enough for Dalinar to recognize Moash from the eyes alone. I feel like it either has to be someone Dalinar is very familiar with or Dalinar himself.

What if the familiarity is based on his familiarity with The Thrill, and therefore 1 of the 9 shadows/unmade?

Edited by Riceloft
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Riceloft said:

What if the familiarity is based on this familiarity with The Thrill, and therefore 1 of the 9 shadows/unmade?

I feel like that's a bit of a stretch. If that were the case, he would feel the familiarity for countless numbers of characters. It seems to me that this is a bit more specific.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Salkara said:

I feel like that's a bit of a stretch. If that were the case, he would feel the familiarity for countless numbers of characters. It seems to me that this is a bit more specific.

I don't at all. As has been stated numerous times, the visions were recorded long ago, and Tanavast is self admittedly bad at foresight.

The familiarity of the thrill is much more likely than Tanavast predicting a specific person as the champion. A specific person who wouldn't be born for a millennium after his death. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Calderis said:

I don't at all. As has been stated numerous times, the visions were recorded long ago, and Tanavast is self admittedly bad at foresight.

The familiarity of the thrill is much more likely than Tanavast predicting a specific person as the champion. A specific person who wouldn't be born for a millennium after his death. 

I don't think we understand the visions fully. Dalinar has been able to interact with the visions in some ways, changing their narrative a slight bit. Also, the Stormfather, who is providing the visions, didn't see the Champion (well, didn't see "the light," but I interpret that as not seeing the Champion either). I think it's definitely possible that Odium is able to affect the visions in some manner (similar to how Ruin affected the Terris religion).

I know that's a stretch, but I believe Dalinar feeling a familiarity just because of the Thrill is even more of a stretch. At this point, he's pretty much immune to the Thrill, right? I remember seeing a WoB to that effect anyway. There are thousands (millions?) of people who experience the Thrill. That just seems too general. I expect that when the Champion is revealed, the general reaction will be along the lines of "Dalinar's familiarity makes so much sense now," and both Dalinar and the Champion having experienced the Thrill doesn't seem like a strong enough connection.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.