Nightwatcher Origin Theory

[Head Crabs]

Hey Sharders! 

 

Long time lurker, but first time poster! Hopefully im not regurgitating a theory posted elsewhere, and apologies if this theory expands a bit beyond the confines of roshar, it's about an entity on roshar but by necessity has to expand a bit further! Let me know if i should move this to cosmere theories! but i have some ideas about the origin of the Nightwatcher. 

 

It starts with our current understanding of the nature of spren capable of nahel bonds. From what I understand, these spren are small pieces of honor, and cultivation to varying degrees depending on the variety. And have been referred to as splinters of honor or cultivation. These splinters are bits of investiture left without will or a host long enough that it gains sentience. (There has been confirmation in a WoB that spren are splinters similar to the way seons are on sel) 

 

I've come accross a number of theories proposing that the nightwatcher is of cultivation, possibly a kind of cognitive shadow similar to the stormfather. This doesnt hold up in my opinion, there is a WoB that i dont know how to link which tells us that cultivations holder is still alive, and from what we know of the old magic, it doesnt seem to fit into the types of investiture made possible by honor and cultivation. (nor the possible iterations of voidbinding that we'll see more of soon) 

 

I propose that the nightwatcher is actually a splinter of adonalsium from pre-shattering. There were already other spren on Roshar before any of the shards came there. I think it's possible that this is a magic system that predates all other kinds on roshar, and was put into place before any shards were taken up. The concept of a boon and a curse doesnt feel at all like the symbiosis present in all of the magic from honor, cultivation, or even odium. 

 

Thoughts? 

 

 

[Orlion Blight]

Here's some ammo for your theory:

Quote

for instance there were some spren on Roshar before Honor and Cultivation got there.  Those were already splinters of Adonalsium where he had left power which attained sentience on its own.  So, it can be intentional is what I am saying, does that make sense?  You have seen other splinters.

That piece of info came from the following post: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4258-questions-for-seattle-signing-1014/?do=findComment&comment=68628

As far as proof: I do not know if there is much in the way of saying it is more plausible than the Nightwatcher being a splinter of Cultivation, but it is certainly plausible. 

[ParadoxicalZen]

It's something I've been wondering myself lately. We don't know if the Nightwatcher existed prior to H&C's arrival, like the Stormfather, or if she was created by Cultivation at some point. If she did exist, i wonder what their/her original purpose was/is

[Nathrangking]

there is a WoB which states that the nightwatcher is to cultivation what the stormfather is to honor.

What is the relationship between Nightwatcher and Cultivation?

BRANDON SANDERSON

I expected a hard RAFO, but he said Nightwatcher compared to Cultivation is similar to Stormfather compared to Honor.

TAGS

Nightwatcher, Cultivation,

Edited September 13, 2017 by Nathrangking

[Yata]

6 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

there is a WoB which states that the nightwatcher is to cultivation what the stormfather is to honor.

Except that it can't be the same as the Stormfather is the merging of the ancient spren Rider of the Storm (mostly an Adonalsium's Spren)  and Tanavast's Shadow (former Honor's Vessel) while Cultivation's Vessel is still alive.

It's likely that Honor corrupted the Rider of The Storm and Cultivation corrupted the Nightwatcher to make them compatible with their magic....But the Nightwatcher and Stormfather could not be the same as the Stormfather inherit from Tanavast features the Nightwatcher can't have.

So the two could be on the same concept but vastly different in the end

Edited September 13, 2017 by Yata

[Toaster Retribution]

I would guess that the Stormfather had some kind of connection to Honor before he died. A popular theory is that Honors perpendiculary is inside the Highstorm. If that is correct (which it most likely is), then I'd guess that Honor had to hijack/bond/connect to the Stormfather in order for it to happen. Something similar could be the case with Cultivation. She connected with the Nightwatcher while forming her perpendiculary.

Even if I'm wrong about the perpendicularity thing, I still think it is pretty clear that Honor had some kind of bond to the Stormfather before he was splintered. The same is probably the case for Cultivation and Nightwatcher too. The only difference would be that the Nightwatcher is a spren only, and not a merge between a spren and a cognitive shadow like Stormdaddy. 

But we do know (I think?) that Stormfather predates the arrival of Honor and Cultivation. It would be logical to assume that Nightwatcher did so too, and in that case, yes, the Nightwatcher might be created by Adonalsium. 

So, in conclusion, I think that the Nightwatcher is created by something other than Cultivation (Adonalsium for example) but now has some sort of connection to Cultivation.

[Head Crabs]

It's even possible that the nightwatcher had an entirely different purpose prior to the shattering of adonalsium and the arrival of honor and cultivation. It would seem likely that their investiture into roshar would influence and shape any of the "natural" magic systems that were put into place by adonalsium. Which could be why wyndle seems to regard the nightwatcher as some kind of mother figure. 

 

I have to agree with yata, there is a WoB stating that cultivation's holder is still alive and kicking around roshar. Im liking the idea of the nightwatcher being an ancient pre-shattering spren that has been influenced by the long term presence of a shards investiture. 

[Yata]

1 hour ago, Head Crabs said:

Which could be why wyndle seems to regard the nightwatcher as some kind of mother figure.

Just a Little thing, we don't know if the "mother" Wyndle speak about is the Nightwatcher or Cultivation herself.

Some think It's oblious because the Stormfather is address as "father' by Syl.

But if you think about It's possible the Stormfather is saw as father for his Tanavast merging rather from his "old Rider of the Storm" self.

I am not saying you are wrong, Simply we don't for sure yet

[Head Crabs]

A fair point! 

[Subvisual Haze]

On 9/13/2017 at 9:51 AM, Toaster Retribution said:

I would guess that the Stormfather had some kind of connection to Honor before he died. A popular theory is that Honors perpendiculary is inside the Highstorm. If that is correct (which it most likely is), then I'd guess that Honor had to hijack/bond/connect to the Stormfather in order for it to happen. Something similar could be the case with Cultivation. She connected with the Nightwatcher while forming her perpendiculary.

Even if I'm wrong about the perpendicularity thing, I still think it is pretty clear that Honor had some kind of bond to the Stormfather before he was splintered. The same is probably the case for Cultivation and Nightwatcher too. The only difference would be that the Nightwatcher is a spren only, and not a merge between a spren and a cognitive shadow like Stormdaddy. 

But we do know (I think?) that Stormfather predates the arrival of Honor and Cultivation. It would be logical to assume that Nightwatcher did so too, and in that case, yes, the Nightwatcher might be created by Adonalsium. 

So, in conclusion, I think that the Nightwatcher is created by something other than Cultivation (Adonalsium for example) but now has some sort of connection to Cultivation.

I agree.  I think Stormfather being a shadow of Honor is a bit of misdirection.  Almost everyone saw the chapter blurb about Bondsmiths being limited to 3 members and made a quick connection to the 3 shards in the system and tried to shoehorn in Nightwatcher as a Cultivation equivalent and a mysterious 3rd spren as some sort of Odium analogue.  I think Stormfather is the exception though owing to his complex nature.  Stormfather existed as a unique and powerful "super spren" personifying the Highstorm before Honor mixed his investiture into the highstorm and before Stormfather took on a secondary role as the shadow of Honor.  Originally Stormfather was just a giant spren representing the storm, and I think other 2 Bondsmith spren will follow a similar pattern.

So rather than the most common theory that the 3 Bondsmith spren will be related to the 3 shards (which is kind of silly, Odium doesn't fit here at all), I propose the 3 Bondsmith spren are of a more elemental nature and remnants of Adonalsium's creation of Roshar pre-Honor+Cultivation's arrival.  Stormfather personifies the highstorms and the air.  Nightwatcher likely personifies the land/earth of Roshar.  A 3rd giant spren would probably best fit as a personification of water/oceans.  What has got me thinking of the Nightwatcher in this way was simply looking at a map of Roshar.  The Nightwatcher can be found in "The Valley".  "The Valley" occupies a spot right at the center of all the maps we have of Roshar, the perfect location to find a spren representing the land of Roshar. 

There's also an odd quote from the (in universe) Way of Kings "all save the Heralds themselves must dine with the Nightwatcher", which might make more sense if we view the Nightwatcher as a representation of the Earth/land.  When you die your physical body returns to the Earth, so "dining with the Nightwatcher" could be the Roshar equivalent to "ashes to ashes".