[OB] Oathbringer chapters 7-9

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Ryder said:

We've seen Kaladin summon Syl as a shardblade a couple of times now, but have we gotten a good description of what she looks like as a blade yet?  

She looks like whatever Kaladin wants her to look like.

[Catladyman]

2 minutes ago, Fulminato said:

don't think renarin can spoke of thing him done.
"Now, as the Truthwatchers were esoteric in nature, their order being formed entirely of those who never spoke or wrote of what they did" WoR Chapter 52

This could be a restriction placed on the order by their spren, similar to how Kaladin cannot lie because of Syl. The way that Syl and Pattern seem to stand in opposition as far as ideals makes me wonder if we will see a similar tension between Glys and Ivory. Jasnah's order possibly values the recording and sharing of knowledge, while the Truthwatchers see it as harmful. This could also explain the way Renarin acted during his visions. He was struggling against his Truthwatcher-ness in order to write and communicate any of what he was learning.

[Toaster Retribution]

2 hours ago, PatronOfRot said:

I hope Kaladin's kid brother doesn't turn out to be Odium's Champion.

This is brilliant. It would go along well with the "Odiums champion is the suckling child from the Death Rattles-theory". It is a great observation, and I think that it has a high likeliness of being true as well. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

It is a great observation and I think that it has a high likeliness of being true as well. 

Just because it goes well with one theory? I don't know. Sounds like blunt speculation to me.

[Cæcilie]

5 minutes ago, Catladyman said:

This could be a restriction placed on the order by their spren, similar to how Kaladin cannot lie because of Syl. The way that Syl and Pattern seem to stand in opposition as far as ideals makes me wonder if we will see a similar tension between Glys and Ivory. Jasnah's order possibly values the recording and sharing of knowledge, while the Truthwatchers see it as harmful. This could also explain the way Renarin acted during his visions. He was struggling against his Truthwatcher-ness in order to write and communicate any of what he was learning.

Actually, the opposite order to the elsecallers is the skybreakers and bondsmiths for the truthwatchers, according to the radiant diagram. Though I get what you mean. It will be interesting when all the radiants unite.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Cæcilie

[Toaster Retribution]

Just now, SLNC said:

Just because it goes well with one theory? I don't know. Sounds like blunt speculation to me.

It goes very well along with a Death Rattle. There is no other baby of significance in the story yet. And having Kaladin being put in a situation where he is forced to kill his other brother to save the world would be a great end to Stormlight 5.

[+robardin]

9 minutes ago, Asrael said:

On The copycat murder my immediate suspicion is Ialai. She was with Sadeas minutes before his death and I was really surprised to find no one found the body for 5 days. I suspect she was near enough to find out it was Adolin and has crafted this response to get at him somehow. Either set him up as a murderer or just psych him out so that he's vulnerable. More likely to set him up to fall BIG and shame Dalinar as well

Oooooooohh

I like this, a dirty plan on so many levels.

Even if she didn't suspect or know it was Adolin, an interesting way to draw out the murderer.

Edited September 12, 2017 by robardin

[+Wax]

AWESOME READ!!

I am wondering why no one else has cottoned on.  Something terrible has happened at Kohlinar.  The riot was one thing, but the whole city has fallen silent on spanreed... sounds omnious.  They'd have the max parshmen as well.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Toaster Retribution said:

And having Kaladin being put in a situation where he is forced to kill his other brother to save the world would be a great end to Stormlight 5.

And utterly predictable.

[redbishop]

7 minutes ago, Bean Delphiki said:

Surprisingly enough Roshone may have some kind of redemption...I still think he's going to die though.  

Perhaps, but not immediately.  I like him as a potential Radiant or Squire.

Anyone else think Laral was the other voice that Syl referred to in Ch. 5?

Quote

“And you don’t have an imagination, it appears.” She landed in the air before him and became a young woman. “Besides, there was… another voice. Pure, with a song like tapped crystal, distant yet demanding…” She smiled, and zipped away.

She and Kaladin played frequently as kids.

[OrangeJedi]

I don't think anyone has mentioned the new Oathbringer preface quotes yet. 

Quote

I did not die.

I experienced something worse.

That right there make me rethink my assumption that it was Jasnah. Who is the author of Oathbringer. Some thoughts I have now are that it might be a Herald or maybe even Honor? Or is it a main character that we have seen and nothing has changed. Who has suffered something worst that death?

[Toaster Retribution]

Just now, SLNC said:

And utterly predictable.

Not necessarily. Four pages of theorizing sharders, and few of us picked up on it. Remember: we are super-nerds. Few people analyze Stormlight, remember Death Rattles, and theorize in the way that we do. And we only picked this one up because of the fact that the Death Rattle I mentioned is one of the most discussed ones. 

[Nymeros]

2 minutes ago, OrangeJedi said:

I don't think anyone has mentioned the new Oathbringer preface quotes yet. 

 

They were the first thing I read actually. All 3 felt utterly useless though.

[Toaster Retribution]

3 minutes ago, OrangeJedi said:

 Who has suffered something worst that death?

Heralds. Repeated death, accompanied by sweet torture and chats with Rayse. I believe that Ishar is the author. 

[OrangeJedi]

 

Just now, Toaster Retribution said:

Heralds. Repeated death, accompanied by sweet torture and chats with Rayse. I believe that Ishar is the author. 

But isn't a heralds death predicable or at lest not unexpected?

[+robardin]

2 minutes ago, OrangeJedi said:

I don't think anyone has mentioned the new Oathbringer preface quotes yet. 

That right there make me rethink my assumption that it was Jasnah. Who is the author of Oathbringer. Some thoughts I have now are that it might be a Herald or maybe even Honor? Or is it a main character that we have seen and nothing has changed. Who has suffered something worst that death?

I think it was meant to be "obviously" Jasnah, who was "killed" on the boat with Shallan but instead spent months in the Cognitive Realm with the spren and possibly worldhopped as well (she can't exactly get a backpack, bandolier, and a glove in the Sprentown Market). Which of course is why it isn't Jasnah.

But like I've said before, I'm done trying to guess the author or meaning of these chapter heading quotes. Whatever Brandon's setting me up for, I'll walk right into with my eyes wide closed. It's... Better that way.

[ProfessorMLyon]

Quote

Renarin who stood up, setting aside his blanket and cup, then walked over to put his hand on his father’s shoulder. The youth looked even more spindly than normal when standing beside Dalinar, and though his hair wasn’t as blond as Adolin’s, it was still patched with yellow. He seemed such a strange contrast to Dalinar, cut from almost entirely different cloth.

Could it be that Dalinar is not Renarin's father at all? If true, could it be a factor in Shhshhh's death? Pretty long stretch I know, and definitely without any evidence. But since we know almost next to nothing about her, it is fun to speculate. 

[Snakh]

I'm going to follow what several others have done in the previous threads: Put my thoughts here before reading everyone else's.

Chapter 7

Quote

I did not die.

I experienced something worse.

This is starting to point more and more toward Jasnah as the author of Oathbringer. This has me just about completely convinced.

As expected, Lirin is not pleased with Kal punching someone. Also I'm glad Kal is able to see that punching Roshone is something he shouldn't have done, though it was also hilarious that Syl thought he probably deserved it.

The little power struggle between Roshone and Kal over the situation is somewhat entertaining. 

Quote

“Brightlord, sir,” the man said, eyes down. “I may not be the best soldier around, but… well, sir, trust me on this. We should just pretend that punch never happened.” The other two soldiers nodded their heads in agreement.

Baha. At least they're smart.

While I understand it was the most efficient way for Kaladin to get what he needed, I can't decide how I feel about him summoning Syl to get things moving. And, although the text says "Curiously," I don't find it the least bit out of character for Lirin to close his eyes and lower his head at his son being a shardbearer.

The parshmen being gone without attacking anyone seems to reinforce the theory that they're gathering somewhere in force. 

Quote

"...They looked like Voidbringers, I tell you, with big bony bits jutting from their skin.”

“They were taller,” the guard captain added. “Taller than me, easily as tall as you are, Brightlord. With legs thick as stumpweights and hands that could have strangled a whitespine, I tell you.”

I may be misremembering Storm Form, but this doesn't sound like it to me. Something new perhaps?

Kal requisitions horses, giving Roshone a small fortune, then later doesn't even take any horses. Seems wasteful.

Quote

“Syl?” Kaladin whispered. “I might need you again.” “You sound apologetic,” she replied, cocking her head.

First, possible formatting error. Hopefully just the Tor transcription. Second, this little tidbit was wonderfully done. I love that the spren of objects have associated genders.

Quote

“Because humans didn’t imagine those ones, silly.”

Some of the older spren have 4 genders, because humans didn't imagine those. I wonder if these ones were imagined by the Listeners instead, since they also have 4 genders. Do Listeners predate humans on Roshar?

It doesn't really surprise me much that Roshone wasn't up to the task of doing what was necessary to save his people. And boy was it interesting to see Laral again. She seems to have changed quite a lot in the 2-3 years since Kal left, and it's interesting to see that she seems to have been happy with Roshone, or at least wants Kaladin to think that she has been.

Kholinar sounds like it's in a bad place right now for sure, spanreed not tended and all. 

The scene where Kaladin is acting as assistant to Lirin definitely illustrates how much he's changed over the years, and really hammers home the point that his experience with surgery has been in the form of battlefield medicine. I can tell that Kaladin and his father have a very large gulf between them. However, Kaladin's path was always going to be the spear, no matter what Lirin had wanted for his son.

Speaking of sons, Kaladin has a little brother! Not going to lie, I teared up alongside Kal. "Child of peace," while fitting to a son of Lirin and Hesina, perhaps not a great name for a child born right before a Desolation.

Boy was it cool to see Kal show off a bit for the people.

Chapter 8

Epigraphs continuing to point toward Jasnah.

Shallan chapter finally. She's clearly out of sorts having faced down the biggest demon of her past. Unsurprisingly, she's still a big contradiction.

Quote

“The sword isn’t you. The sword is me, my father, the life we led, and the way it got twisted all about.”

“I…” Pattern hummed softly. “I don’t understand.”

I’d be shocked if you did, Shallan thought. Because I sure don’t.

The art geek within me is very happy that surrealism is a thing in this world, and the scout's description upon seeing surrealism is surprisingly insightful.

We see Dalinar's affect on Shallan's Surgebinding. I wonder if this is specifically because he's a Bondsmith, or if any of the different orders can work together like this.

What's with that reaction that Renarin had to Odium's champion? What has he seen? We haven't heard much about Renarin's surgebinding, or his spren. I hope we'll get some chapters with his viewpoint later in this book. I've always been fascinated by Renarin and I'm dying to know what's going on in his head.

We know that the Oathgates are locked from the cities in which they exist, and that it takes a Radiant to use them. Does that mean that a Radiant will have to travel to those cities to unlock them, or can that be done by anyone?

Chapter 9

I have serious doubts about Adolin's ability to not fall apart about murdering Sadeas. The way he reacted to this copycat murder, I'd be extremely surprised if he makes it out of part I without anyone figuring it out. Seems like Renarin might already know, but I imagine Shallan will piece it together pretty soon. Especially since Dalinar gave him the task of solving Sadeas's murder. Shallan noted that he's "as deceitful as a newborn," which makes me worry about his ability to make it seem like he's working on solving it without implicating himself.  My gut tells me he'll eventually just confess.

In closing, I'd like to reiterate: Renarin is interesting (and creepy). What is going on inside that quiet head of his? Also, I've been waiting for ages to know what that box is he was always playing with. We don't know what that is yet, right?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Not necessarily. Four pages of theorizing sharders, and few of us picked up on it. Remember: we are super-nerds. Few people analyze Stormlight, remember Death Rattles, and theorize in the way that we do. And we only picked this one up because of the fact that the Death Rattle I mentioned is one of the most discussed ones. 

And yet, we still don't know what the Death Rattles really mean. They are just cryptic messages, that Taravangian extracts from terminally ill patients by bleeding them to death in hope, the important word here, to expand the Diagram. Maybe it is foreshadowing, maybe it is something that had happened in the past. Maybe what ever that child in the Death Rattle became he already is, because he grew up. Maybe it's just crem dung. Even Mr. T doesn't really know what all the Death Rattles mean. No one knows.

It is just speculation. I don't think, that we can put a probability on it yet.

Edited September 12, 2017 by SLNC

[The Invested Beard]

I really hope Brandon is faking us out on the whole creepy Renarin thing. I can definitely see him being restricted on what he can or can't say as a way of staving off ostensibly manipulating events with what is effectively insider trading in future knowledge.

Everything about the Kaladin chapter was freakin perfect. Loved the Radiant reveal.

Also I'm thinking the in-world Oathbringer author is looking more and more like either Dalinar or Jasnah.

Edited September 12, 2017 by The Invested Beard

[Ansalem]

2 minutes ago, Snakh said:

In closing, I'd like to reiterate: Renarin is interesting (and creepy). What is going on inside that quiet head of his? Also, I've been waiting for ages to know what that box is he was always playing with. We don't know what that is yet, right?

It's just a box that he keeps Glys in.

[ProfessorMLyon]

11 minutes ago, OrangeJedi said:

I don't think anyone has mentioned the new Oathbringer preface quotes yet. 

  Quote

I did not die.

I experienced something worse.

That right there make me rethink my assumption that it was Jasnah. Who is the author of Oathbringer. Some thoughts I have now are that it might be a Herald or maybe even Honor? Or is it a main character that we have seen and nothing has changed. Who has suffered something worst that death?

My own personal theory is that the author is Shhshhh, and that she is going to bring all sorts of confusion and discord to Kholinar family when she comes out and says "Surpise! I'm not dead." Think of how awkward it would be for Navani. 

Edited September 12, 2017 by ProfessorMLyon

[Snakh]

Just now, Ansalem said:

It's just a box that he keeps Glys in.

Do we know this for sure, or is that a theory?

[Ansalem]

Just now, Snakh said:

Do we know this for sure, or is that a theory?

Well, it isn't explicitly stated anywhere in the books, but it's very strongly implied. I'd say we're more than 90% sure.

[Toaster Retribution]

7 minutes ago, OrangeJedi said:

 

But isn't a heralds death predicable or at lest not unexpected?

Where did he say that it was unexpected?