[OB] Oathbringer chapters 7-9

[+robardin]

2 minutes ago, Calderis said:

You've got it backwards. The clue is specifically in tWoK. 

AHA

I missed that

[Khyrindor]

Most likely something Hoid says to Renarin early on. That's my guess.

Yes, Argent, I hear you laughing at us...

 

[Elena]

On 09/12/2017 at 6:59 PM, king of nowhere said:

 

On 09/12/2017 at 6:45 PM, Daishi5 said:

I don't see Laral at all as being a squire, she grew up to be one of the arrogant light eyes that Kaladin hates.  When Kaladin reminds her the way Roshone treated his father and how he as good as killed Tien, she replies that Lirin had spoken bad of Roshone.  

Yeah, rereading that passage, it felt quite off from her:

"roshone killed my brother and made my family suffer for years"

"yeah, but your father insulted roshone, so roshone was justified"

Ok, it wasn't exactly what it meant, but it read a lot like that. Still, I think laral has a better capacity than kaladin to see all sides. kaladin has been trained militarily to think in terms of "us" and "then", he even states so in the first book. He doesn't give a fair chance at his opponents.

 

Okay so, keeping in mind that I love Laral and thus I'm hardly objective, we should probably keep in mind that she might be overcompensating in putting on an 'all-is-well' front for Kaladin's benefit. I'm glad she found her role and took control of her life, but it was a life she was thrust into, didn't choose. She had both her father and her betrothed die on her within a few years, then had to marry Roshone and likely felt lost and alone. Now she's in a better place, but Kaladin coming back has definitely brought up bittersweet childhood memories of when life was easier, and she wants it to make clear she's far from that lost girl now. So I never read her as arrogant, just like she's trying a bit too hard to show that she's fine, she's good, and it's all on her.

(That said: as much as she's happy with her life I doubt she's happy in her marriage - content in it, more like it - and I hope her story is not over yet because she deserves true happiness. Her story always really made an impression on me.)

[Jaconis]

Well, Hoid has taken a special interest in encouraging each of our other proto-Rafiants. He speaks to Kaladin, Shallan, and Dalinar to help them through their issues. The only other person he specifically tries to help (that we've seen) is Renarin. In that very same conversation he says he only helps those that could benefit from it. 

[WhiteLeeopard]

Laral seemed a rich, spoiled, country girl that wanted to be a spoiled, popular girl from the capital. She briefly behaved like that. Then she married Roshone. Now she is a capable, arrogant woman in control of her town.

[Errdil]

3 hours ago, Spicker said:

I agree that crem deposits would be very common in all of Roshar. So if that is all there is to it, why is the rock of Urithiru so notably different than other rock?

It just hit me. Urithiru is described as being above the storms, with mechanisms to lower the spheres for infusing and all that. It can't be crem deposits, unless it was somehow built at lower elevation and then risen up.

[Argent]

17 minutes ago, Kalinovsky said:

So share it pleeeeeease! I'll give you cookies!..

Oh no, I meant that he allowed me to share it with the lady who asked a similar question. Not publicly

It's juicy though. Gon' blow your minds.

[Emerald101]

1 minute ago, Argent said:

Oh no, I meant that he allowed me to share it with the lady who asked a similar question. Not publicly

It's juicy though. Gon' blow your minds.

You really do enjoy toying with our emotions, don't you?

[Calderis]

10 minutes ago, Emerald101 said:

You really do enjoy toying with our emotions, don't you?

Pray he never becomes a Beta. 

Argent would ascend to the Shard of Ridicule or Sadism or something similar. 

[+Spicker]

9 minutes ago, Errdil said:

It just hit me. Urithiru is described as being above the storms, with mechanisms to lower the spheres for infusing and all that. It can't be crem deposits, unless it was somehow built at lower elevation and then risen up.

Well it is on a mountain, so we know that it was lifted up at some point. The problem is on Earth that is a million year process. So the rock was probably uplifted first (this could have cause warping and twisting sediment layer we see) and then built into Urithiru.Then again we don't know much about the creation of Urithiru, but these chapters have me more and more curious. It is clear by everyone's reaction to the strange halls that this place was not created by any methods that they would be familiar with.

[+robardin]

5 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Pray he never becomes a Beta. 

Argent would ascend to the Shard of Ridicule or Sadism or something similar. 

The Shard of Smugness

But hemalurgy with an argentium spike would be very useful

 

[+robardin]

31 minutes ago, Khyrindor said:

Most likely something Hoid says to Renarin early on. That's my guess.

Yes, Argent, I hear you laughing at us...

I have a feeling this has been done already, but I quickly did a scan of passages where Renarin says something in TWoK. Not a whole lot grabs my attention...

Ch. 12 - Wit shows up and uncharacteristically teases Renarin about walking the warcamp with him with picking up not one but two women, causing Renarin to blush while denying it.

Ch. 15 -  Wit challenges Renarin to say something, but nothing ridiculous, and Renarin replies with the phrase, "nothing ridiculous".

Ch. 18 - Renarin is the first one to notice an unexpected highstorm.

Ch. 52 - Renarin is described as seeming like he's about to have a seizure when being present during one of Dalinar's visions, and seems to have some knowledge of the Nightwatcher, enough to rule out the visions as being related to Dalinar's visit (since his bane would have manifested at that time, rather than now).

Renarin is also the one to discuss verifying what Dalinar sees in his visions - specfically, the Day of Recreance at a Feverstone Keep - by cross-referencing details with other known facts.

Ch. 60 - he shows intense interest in Navani's anesthetic fabrial.

Ch. 61 - he asks Navani about the Desolations, and mentions that his mother had told him a story, "The Origin of the Makabaki", about people born from rocks.

Ch. 69 - Renarin seems extremely agitated and upset about Sadeas' (false) news of Dalinar and Adolin dying while getting overwhelmed by Parshendi; then, he is very glad to see them both arrive alive.

Bwuh?

...Maybe the first time we see Renarin is the reveal? He was Lightweaving a pair of attractive girls for himself?! 

Edited September 13, 2017 by robardin

[dionysus]

5 hours ago, Calderis said:

The intent of Honor is about codes, and bonds and keeping your word. It about maintaining decisions you've made in the past.

Cultivation on the other hand, is all about pre-planning. Laying out a goal and working towards that by manipulating the environment and events to achieve that goal.

I don't see Odium, a Shard who's intent is literally acting on and inspiring hatred, being better at foresight than Cultivation. I just don't. 

I don't see that there is evidence that the intent of the shard has anything to do with the strength of various powers. Not to go into specific spoilers, but lots of powers associated with different shardworlds share seemingly no connection to the intent of the shard on that world. White Sands seems like a good starting point. I personally believe that you can't ignore the fact that these shards are held by sentients of various affinities and abilities, and thus they will naturally have their strengths and weaknesses. Just like I am good at engineering but terrible at making music. Give me a guitar but it doesn't mean I can play Stairway to Heaven.

[Pammie]

@robardin @Khyrindor So I just released my inner stalker and did several google searches where I found this thread from August where he drops a few more hints, one being that it's a page where Renarin's name is NOT mentioned. Here's the link, it's in one of his comments further down on the page.  

I thought that these small chapter releases would help with the wait, but I was so wrong. We still have two whole months until Oathbringer and I am literally going to go insane.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Pammie

[The Technovore]

Okay, I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this (Because I'm not about to read 16 pages of posts to find out) But the whole scene with Shallan shooting out a map of Roshar suggests to me something AWESOME. Radiants can cross-Resonate their abilities! Dalinar's Abilities are Adhesion and Cohesion, both having to do with objects binding together, what if the Cohesion surge temporarily bonded him and Shallan together, so Shallan could use the Stormfather's knowledge to perform her Lightweaving! Can groups of Radiants from different orders do things no one even imagined is really exciting to me!

EDIT:

Also this bit: That moment notwithstanding, I can honestly say this book has been brewing in me since my youth, from the Chapter 8 preface sounds like it could go for Sanderson himself just as well as Jasnah(/Dalinar/Hoid/Super mysterious author-itorial enigma).

Edited September 13, 2017 by The Technovore

[Khyrindor]

4 minutes ago, Pammie said:

@robardin @Khyrindor So I just released my inner stalker and did several google searches where I found this thread from August where he drops a few more hints, one being that it's a page where Renarin's name is NOT mentioned. Here's the link, it's in one of his comments further down on the page.  

I thought that these small chapter releases would help with the wait, but I was so wrong. We still have two whole months until Oathbringer and I am literally going to go insane.

Ahkay so my Hoid guess is off. My next guesses are something Jasnah says about her cousins, or something Adolin thinks of "His brother" not by name.

[frozndevl]

2 minutes ago, The Technovore said:

Okay, I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this (Because I'm not about to read 16 pages of posts to find out) But the whole scene with Shallan shooting out a map of Roshar suggests to me something AWESOME. Radiants can cross-Resonate their abilities! Dalinar's Abilities are Adhesion and Cohesion, both having to do with objects binding together, what if the Cohesion surge temporarily bonded him and Shallan together, so Shallan could use the Stormfather's knowledge to perform her Lightweaving! Can groups of Radiants from different orders do things no one even imagined is really exciting to me!

 

The general consensus (if we can call it that at this point) is that this is something specific to the Bondsmiths, and not something that would happen whenever two get together.

[Khyrindor]

Just now, frozndevl said:

The general consensus (if we can call it that at this point) is that this is something specific to the Bondsmiths, and not something that would happen whenever two get together.

Was about to say that, but didn't want to double post. I will add that it could be possible in groups as long as a Bondsmith is present to set it in motion.

[The Technovore]

 

 

 

1 minute ago, frozndevl said:

The general consensus (if we can call it that at this point) is that this is something specific to the Bondsmiths, and not something that would happen whenever two get together.

Makes sense, with the Cohesion surge, maybe it's just a Bondsmith's ability to combine powers with other Radiants

[Ansalem]

1 minute ago, The Technovore said:

Makes sense, with the Cohesion surge, maybe it's just a Bondsmith's ability to combine powers with other Radiants

Bondsmiths don't have Cohesion, they have Tension. I could see Cohesion doing something like that, but I don't see how Tension could, just based on the names.

[Khyrindor]

4 minutes ago, The Technovore said:

Makes sense, with the Cohesion surge, maybe it's just a Bondsmith's ability to combine powers with other Radiants

 

1 minute ago, Ansalem said:

Bondsmiths don't have Cohesion, they have Tension. I could see Cohesion doing something like that, but I don't see how Tension could, just based on the names.

As all Surges are considered forces of nature, what we see here is (I'm 99% sure) Dalinar's Resonance.

[Ansalem]

Just now, Khyrindor said:

As all Surges are considered forces of nature, what we see here is (I'm 99% sure) Dalinar's Resonance.

Right, that's what I was trying to say. 

[Daishi5]

29 minutes ago, robardin said:

I have a feeling this has been done already, but I quickly did a scan of passages where Renarin says something in TWoK. Not a whole lot grabs my attention...

Ch. 12 - Wit shows up and uncharacteristically teases Renarin about walking the warcamp with him with picking up not one but two women, causing Renarin to blush while denying it.

Ch. 15 -  Wit challenges Renarin to say something, but nothing ridiculous, and Renarin replies with the phrase, "nothing ridiculous".

Ch. 18 - Renarin is the first one to notice an unexpected highstorm.

Ch. 52 - Renarin is described as seeming like he's about to have a seizure when being present during one of Dalinar's visions, and seems to have some knowledge of the Nightwatcher, enough to rule out the visions as being related to Dalinar's visit (since his bane would have manifested at that time, rather than now).

Renarin is also the one to discuss verifying what Dalinar sees in his visions - specfically, the Day of Recreance at a Feverstone Keep - by cross-referencing details with other known facts.

Ch. 60 - he shows intense interest in Navani's anesthetic fabrial.

Ch. 61 - he asks Navani about the Desolations, and mentions that his mother had told him a story, "The Origin of the Makabaki", about people born from rocks.

Ch. 69 - Renarin seems extremely agitated and upset about Sadeas' (false) news of Dalinar and Adolin dying while getting overwhelmed by Parshendi; then, he is very glad to see them both arrive alive.

Bwuh?

...Maybe the first time we see Renarin is the reveal? He was Lightweaving a pair of attractive girls for himself?! 

.... Crazy thought, is Renarin around for all of Dalinar's visions, or could they be somehow different when Renarin is around?

[The Technovore]

20 minutes ago, Ansalem said:

Bondsmiths don't have Cohesion, they have Tension. I could see Cohesion doing something like that, but I don't see how Tension could, just based on the names.

Welp, guess I'm dumb then XD 

[Silarn]

10 hours ago, Pattern said:

I don't understand the fuss people make about strata in rocks. Roshar is shaped and formed by crem desposits from Highstorms. The whole continent shifts slowly westwards, since material is eroded in the east and deposited in the west. The crem layers slowly solidify to rock with natural strata. 
Mountains have to be folded up (so Roshar cannot be totally tectonically inert) which would result in curved strata.

Of course, what you just described is essentially the process by which metamorphic rock is formed.  Take a little sedimentary rock (or igneous or whatever, really), apply the pressure (and heat) of giant slabs of earth pushing against one another, and add a few (thousand) years of time - boom! Metamorphic!

Now, whether or not this is actually how we ended up with the rock of Urithiru, whether or not it ends up being important -- I dunno. However, I'd wager that Shallan's inability to draw the city is definitely not one of perspective. I imagine it's a bit similar to why she can't quite pin down a perfect drawing of Pattern.