[OB] Oathbringer chapters 7-9

[Pagerunner]

32 minutes ago, hypatia said:

And really, is this about people don't know about the Silver Kingdoms or a mistake?

Kurth (Jasnah's guess) and Rall Elorim were in the old kingdom of Iri and they totally forget the kingdom of Rishir.

I would so like a Oathgate in Herdaz.

If you look closely at the colors on the Silver Kingdoms map, you can see the isles all across the north of Roshar (now known as the Reshi Isles) match Rishir's color. Kurth is on an island, so it looks like it is Rishir's old Oathgates, even though it is claimed by the modern Riran nation.

[Hero-of-Pages]

27 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Ugh. That makes sense, its so bloody Dalinar. 

Never mind that Elhokar has shown 0 ability at anything, and the end of the world is not a good time to coddle grown ups where that same Hnorblade could save thousands of lifes in the right hands. I also can't help that feel that Kaladin should have a say on who gets the Honorblade, given he is the only Windrunner around, shouldn't he pick someone he feels can embody the ideals? Otherwise they may be falling down the "too much power in the wrong hands" again. 

I'm pretty sure that somewhere in WoK or WoR it mentions that Elhokar does have a considerable amount of skill with a blade. Though because I don't have a source I will treat that as false until I can find the passage. Nonetheless I would say that giving Elhokar the honorblade does make some sense. He is a very important man, and the honorblade may be one of the best ways to protect him. Maybe in the future we will find that it is best used by someone else, but for now the choice seems sound. He could even lend it for battles in which he won't participate.

[treblkickd]

42 minutes ago, hypatia said:

And really, is this about people don't know about the Silver Kingdoms or a mistake?

Kurth (Jasnah's guess) and Rall Elorim were in the old kingdom of Iri and they totally forget the kingdom of Rishir.

I would so like a Oathgate in Herdaz.

This was my first reaction as well, but if you inspect the Silver Kingdoms and modern era Roshar maps closely you'll notice that Kurth *is* actually in on Rishir, if only just barely. Rishir seemed to include basically all of the northern islands on Roshar.

 

Edit: sorry for the duplication of Pagerunner above, looks like I'm too slow.

Edited September 12, 2017 by treblkickd

[Viridian]

About the murdered guy:

Quote

“Adolin?” Shallan asked. “Did you know him?”

He didn’t seem to hear her. “This is impossible,” he muttered. “Impossible.”

“Adolin?”

“I… No, I didn’t know him, Shallan. ["]

If the murdered Perel is the same Perel from WoR...

Quote

Perel—wrapped in a large stormcoat—stood there bellowing orders. He gave Adolin a quick salute.

“Status?” Adolin asked.

“Treading water, Brightlord.”

“I have no idea what that means,” Adolin said.

“Swimming term, sir,” Perel said.

(WoR, ch 82)

...then Adolin definitely lied to Shallan about knowing him.

Also, that means the guy who used a swimming term was killed in a pool.

[Calderis]

On Elhokar with the blade... I can see Dalinar doing it. I really really hope he's not that storming stupid... 

[rjl]

I loved the Kaladin chapter and the growth he's showing - I think it was good that he hit Roshone, not that it was necessarily a good thing to do but that it makes him seem a bit more human, characters who are perfect all the time are annoying -> also it was a completely understandable reaction considering what happened with Moash and his past history I'm almost surprised he didn't do more.

It also felt very satisfying overal it seemed to tie up the loose threads and didn't leave us hanging; sure he's heading off into the night but that's a new thread now.

 

As for the other two chapters; not so much my kind of thing but useful development nonetheless. I'm nervous where things are going with Adolin, I really hope the death of Sadeas doesn't result in him being cast out/arrested/anything else of the sort; though maybe it could be a useful plot device for him to go into exile for a year or something; I also hope that the mystery doesn't drag on all book.

Regarding Renarin you all seem too suspicious, I just read it as he's seen some visions of the future that have spooked him and he's already by nature a quiet individual.

 

6 minutes ago, Viridian said:

About the murdered guy:

If the murdered Perel is the same Perel from WoR...

...then Adolin definitely lied to Shallan about knowing him.

Also, that means the guy who used a swimming term was killed in a pool.

It's not the same Perel - it says that this Perel who's been murdered is from Sebarial’s army whereas if you read back in WOR you'll find that the Perel Adolin was talking to was one of Adolin/Dalinar's officers.

[redbishop]

4 minutes ago, Viridian said:

Also, that means the guy who used a swimming term was killed in a pool.

That is hilarious, and it deserves a pause for acknowledgemnt.  Well spotted!

I am on mobile now and may have missed, but have we speculated that Perel may have been killed because of where he was/What he had seen, rather than a pure frame up or other sneaky shenanigans? As a Sebarial guard, he may have seen something he wasn't supposed to (such as Ghostbloods spying on the Brightness Radiant?) and been killed, and the murderer used a recent, memorable method of killing/mangling as misdirection?  "Look, a serial killer!" may throw them off the correct trail.

Except it shouldn't throw Adolin, and could give him a reprieve, if not fully put him in the clear.

[scifan]

8 hours ago, bleeder said:

Also, where's our buddy Zahel? Still in Kholinar, or...?

I thought Zahel was in the Kholin war camp...  have kind of missed him as well... 

[The Invested Beard]

More Zahel is something I could definitely get behind.

[scifan]

1 hour ago, robardin said:

I thought that even the "dead" Shardblades reformed themselves to fit the lock, but wouldn't turn. But you're right, I don't think Honorblades can reform themselves the way that Sprenblades can, even the (mostly) dead ones.

 

(Great, now I'm thinking of Miracle Max from The Princess Bride saying, "it so happens your spren here is only MOSTLY dead! There's a big difference between mostly dead, and all dead... Mostly dead, is slightly alive!")

I thought the reverse - that the lock reforms to fit the blade...

[Elena]

I know most people are guessing Ialai is behind the copycat murder and I see their point, but (assuming the murders will continue, which is likely) this seems a bit too irrational for her. How would she pick people to kill? How can that be pinned on Dalinar, besides the obvious 'create distraction' factor? Who would actually be doing the killing? For a scene this stage I'd expect one would need at least a lookout in addition to the killer, ideally two - would Ialai involve that many people, especially now that she's alone in her plotting?

Too many variables left to chance for someone very visible who'd be taking a big gamble setting up all of this for no immediate gain.

IDK, it seems to me like it's more likelyto be a Ghostblood plot; maybe they're seizing the chance to kill people they don't like and  blame it all on some crazy stabbing maniac. They have also the expertise and probably more experience with 'larger' hits.

 

Ps: anyway - where the hell is Amaram?

[Ryder]

3 minutes ago, scifan said:

I thought the reverse - that the lock reforms to fit the blade...

Here's the section from WoR where Shallan has Renarin try the oathgate first:

Quote

“Made of the same stuff!” Shallan said, growing excited. “And that slot is shaped like it might fit a Blade. Try sliding the weapon in, very slowly.”

He did so, and as the point moved into the hole, the entire shape of the keyhole shifted, the metal flowing to match the shape of Renarin’s Shardblade. It was working! He got the weapon placed, and they turned around, looking over the chamber. Nothing appeared to have changed.

Looks like the lock changes to fit the blades, regardless of whether they're dead or not.

[+Wax]

Chance for wild theorizing...

Dalinar accentuates Shallan's capability.

While seeking for the truth on Sadeas's death, he tugs Renarin's power showing the vision of Adolin killing Sadeas...

How's that for a plot twist!

Also the delayed healing for Adolin suggests nowhere near proto radiancy.

Edited September 12, 2017 by axcellence

[Hischier]

1 minute ago, axcellence said:

Chance for wild theorizing...

Dalinar accentuates Shallan's capability.

While seeking for the truth on Sadeas's death, he tugs Renarin's power showing the vision of Adolin killing Sadeas...

How's that for a plot twist

Could that be what happened when Dalinar saw the vision of Odium's champion? Maybe that's why Renarin looked so spooked. He saw that image and somehow Dalinar saw it too in his vision?  

 

[maxal]

27 minutes ago, Calderis said:

On Elhokar with the blade... I can see Dalinar doing it. I really really hope he's not that storming stupid... 

I think he is. I called it out. It has been one of my theories and so far... well, it seems like a real possibility. What else could Dalinar have for Elhokar to brighten his mood? Oh yeah nephew, I am usurping your authority because you are inept at being king, have a pad on the back and a cookie.

@Viridian: The Perel whom was just murdered was from the Sebrarial army whereas the treating water Perel was one of Adolin's soldiers. I am thinking the assassin who is doing the copycat murders has for order to murder brightlords within Dalinar's group of allies, across all warcamps, whichever one is easiest to kill. Perel was at the wrong place at the wrong moment. I am convinced there will be more murders...

19 minutes ago, Elena said:

I know most people are guessing Ialai is behind the copycat murder and I see their point, but (assuming the murders will continue, which is likely) this seems a bit too irrational for her. How would she pick people to kill? How can that be pinned on Dalinar, besides the obvious 'create distraction' factor? Who would actually be doing the killing? For a scene this stage I'd expect one would need at least a lookout in addition to the killer, ideally two - would Ialai involve that many people, especially now that she's alone in her plotting?

Too many variables left to chance for someone very visible who'd be taking a big gamble setting up all of this for no immediate gain.

IDK, it seems to me like it's more likelyto be a Ghostblood plot; maybe they're seizing the chance to kill people they don't like and  blame it all on some crazy stabbing maniac. They have also the expertise and probably more experience with 'larger' hits.

See my above comment, she isn't targeting specific people, she is just creating confusion. She is making it look as if Sadeas's killer is killing more people and she sneakily made sure they would be among Dalinar's allied warcamps. The fact it was Perel is irrelevant, what is relevant is they all think the same killer has stuck twice. 

Why is she doing it? Because this is exactly what she and Torol were attempting to do in WoR: goat Adolin, push him over, drag him to the edge if the cliff, then shove him into it. There might have been a clue onto the body which led her to suspect Adolin or she just suspects him or she has no idea and she's fishing, but having copycat murders increases the charges against the killer. She is hoping he will come clean before he gets accused of having killed more people. If it is Adolin, even better: he gets accused of several murders and not just one. She ought to know he is likely to get away with murdering Sadeas because of all which has happened, but the other men? Nah, if he is caught, even if he wants to, Dalinar won't be able to protect Adolin.

An assassin is probably doing it: replicating the murder is not difficult. His/her task is to copy the murder by targeting whomever it is convenient to target as long as it is a lighteyed.

I have no idea why the Ghostblood would even be involved in this. It makes no sense for them. 

10 minutes ago, axcellence said:

Also the delayed healing for Adolin suggests nowhere near proto radiancy.

Well, we knew he wasn't a proto-Radiant: I used the same argument to state neither was Elhokar. I am thinking it is not normal for a fractured wrist to be painful so long after the impact. Normally, fractures aren't painful once the inflammation is gone which is usually after a few days. The fact he cannot move the hand without wincing tells me something is wrong with his wrist: he disrupted it while stabbing Sadeas. One of my theories has been Adolin's wrist gives him away.

[Ardjet]

19 minutes ago, Elena said:

 

Ps: anyway - where the hell is Amaram?

If I recall correctly, last we saw he was heading away from the warcamps on a cart, with his shardplate hidden in the cart.

My guess would be he returned to some contacts in the Sons of Honor for more plottin' or for refuge.

[mariapapadia]

I don't really understand what would point to Dalinar giving Elhokar the Honorblade. I understand it's all suppositions, but it doesn't make sense to me. Firstly, we don't know what happened to the blade, if it's in Dalinar possesion at all. Secondly, even though Kaladin saved Elhokar and had a moment with him when the king let his guard down, I don't think he sees him as a capable king yet, he just accepted that he deserved protection. And I don't think Dalinar would ignore Kaladin or he would do it without asking for anyone else's opinion. Doesn't Elhokar already have a Shardblade+ Shardplate ? Plus, I think(maybe I am remembering wrong) Syl pointed out how Szeth gained those powers through the blade and it's a forced way to do it? 

If Dalinar would give the blade to someone in order for that person to gain powers, why wouldn't he give it to Adolin? It would make much more sense for Adolin to gain powers that way,given that pretty much everyone around him is a Radiant and he seems much more capable than Elhokar.. 

[+robardin]

29 minutes ago, scifan said:

I thought the reverse - that the lock reforms to fit the blade...

I went back to reread it and you are right. 

Quote

Adolin obeyed, scrambling forward, summoning his Shardblade. He rammed it into the slot, which again flowed to fit the weapon.

 

[scifan]

27 minutes ago, Ryder said:

Here's the section from WoR where Shallan has Renarin try the oathgate first:

Looks like the lock changes to fit the blades, regardless of whether they're dead or not.

However, it doesn't really address the question about if an Honor blade would actually work the mechanism... I suspect not...

[maxal]

2 minutes ago, mariapapadia said:

I don't really understand what would point to Dalinar giving Elhokar the Honorblade. I understand it's all suppositions, but it doesn't make sense to me. Firstly, we don't know what happened to the blade, if it's in Dalinar possesion at all. Secondly, even though Kaladin saved Elhokar and had a moment with him when the king let his guard down, I don't think he sees him as a capable king yet, he just accepted that he deserved protection. And I don't think Dalinar would ignore Kaladin or he would do it without asking for anyone else's opinion. Doesn't Elhokar already have a Shardblade+ Shardplate ? Plus, I think(maybe I am remembering wrong) Syl pointed out how Szeth gained those powers through the blade and it's a forced way to do it? 

If Dalinar would give the blade to someone in order for that person to gain powers, why wouldn't he give it to Adolin? It would make much more sense for Adolin to gain powers that way,given that pretty much everyone around him is a Radiant and he seems much more capable than Elhokar.. 

Because Dalinar has a blind spot when it comes to Elhokar... whereas he doesn't when it comes to Adolin. We see in his reactions how he has never considered the possibility of Adolin falling him or not being steadfast nor steady nor needing help nor anything whereas he keeps on thinking about Elhokar, what to do about poor Elhokar, how can he manage Elhokar. It makes more sense for Dalinar's character to give the honorblade to Elhokar as opposed to Adolin

[Starla]

22 minutes ago, Ryder said:

Looks like the lock changes to fit the blades, regardless of whether they're dead or not.

Per this quote in chapter 8, it seems sprenblade is required to operate the oathgate:

"Plus, there wasn’t much of her to go around. Only an active, full Knight Radiant could work the control buildings at the center of each platform, initiating the swap. For now, that meant only Shallan.

[+Wax]

5 minutes ago, Starla said:

Per this quote in chapter 8, it seems sprenblade is required to operate the oathgate:

"Plus, there wasn’t much of her to go around. Only an active, full Knight Radiant could work the control buildings at the center of each platform, initiating the swap. For now, that meant only Shallan.

So, bets on who will activate the second oathgate?

Kaladin

Jasnah

Lift

Renarin

Dalinar

Shallan again

or someone else?

I am betting on Kaladin as Jasnah/Lift has no viewpoints in Part 1.

Interestingly, there was a WoB that we won't see so much of Kaladin in Part 1.  So much so for that!

Edited September 12, 2017 by axcellence

[geralt]

2 minutes ago, maxal said:

Because Dalinar has a blind spot when it comes to Elhokar... whereas he doesn't when it comes to Adolin. We see in his reactions how he has never considered the possibility of Adolin falling him or not being steadfast nor steady nor needing help nor anything whereas he keeps on thinking about Elhokar, what to do about poor Elhokar, how can he manage Elhokar. It makes more sense for Dalinar's character to give the honorblade to Elhokar as opposed to Adolin

I think that says more about who Dalinar regards as more capable than anything else. 

[rjl]

16 minutes ago, Ardjet said:

If I recall correctly, last we saw he was heading away from the warcamps on a cart, with his shardplate hidden in the cart.

My guess would be he returned to some contacts in the Sons of Honor for more plottin' or for refuge.

That was Moash and Graves. Amaram was last seen taking the man who may be Talenelat into a coach planning to go to Urithuru after writing a letter to Restares saying that they had succeeded. He regrets the loss of Dalinar's friendship wishing that he had killed Kaladin; and one of the ghostbloods tries to kill him with a blow gun - he recognises them as a ghostblood; but they run off when he summons his Blade.

Edited September 12, 2017 by rjl

[mariapapadia]

4 minutes ago, maxal said:

Because Dalinar has a blind spot when it comes to Elhokar... whereas he doesn't when it comes to Adolin. We see in his reactions how he has never considered the possibility of Adolin falling him or not being steadfast nor steady nor needing help nor anything whereas he keeps on thinking about Elhokar, what to do about poor Elhokar, how can he manage Elhokar. It makes more sense for Dalinar's character to give the honorblade to Elhokar as opposed to Adolin

Even considering that Dalinar has a blind spot for Elhokar, rather than Adolin ( which I don't necessarily agree with) from a strategic point of view it would make much sense to give Adolin power and put him in a higher position because he knows he is more capable than Elhokar. And I don't think this is up for debate, I truly belive he considers his son's competence above the one of his nephew. With those powers and Elhokar still being sort of the king, he can't do much. Like if it were up to use those in battles or other circumstances. I don't think he would waste "powers" only for him not to be a cry baby. I don't know, maybe you are right. But it doesn't make sense for the way I read the story so far .