Borio Singaldi

Allomantic Cyanide

41 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Carbonationspren said:

Is there any canon that says that the metal inside you must be touching you to be burned? If an Allomancer swallowed, say, a copper-coated Ettmetal bead, then burned the Ettmetal before burning the copper, that seems to solve the problem. The copper would act as an insulator while the Ettmetal was used, then could be safely burned away after the Ettmetal reserves were gone.

Except by the time ettmetal exists, the only Allomancers are Mistings. It's possible that you could also vomit up the metal shell using the same idea.

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2 hours ago, Ookla the Noble said:

Except by the time ettmetal exists, the only Allomancers are Mistings. It's possible that you could also vomit up the metal shell using the same idea.

Hemalurgy still exists (thank Harmony).

Edited by Unlicensed Hemalurgist
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5 hours ago, Unlicensed Hemalurgist said:

Hemalurgy still exists (thank Harmony).

Yes, but I never heard of ettmetal mistings, and you can't really hemlurgically transfer non-existent attributes.

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5 hours ago, Alfa said:

Yes, but I never heard of ettmetal mistings, and you can't really hemlurgically transfer non-existent attributes.

Just because they haven’t been seen doesn’t mean they exist.  It just means people aren’t going around testing for them.  We saw this with the Atium mistings in HoA.  However, we don’t even know whether it can be burned logistically, or if ettmetal is an Allomantic metal.  If it could, it could be stolen through Hemalurgy (though lack of Atium could be a problem if we don’t know the specific metal that steals that attribute).  

And even if it were not possible to get someone that can burn ettmetal (assuming it was allomantic), theories can be made about situations that may not be possible in the storyline given in the novels.

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Hello, first post so I hope you'll excuse any awkwardness within.

I am attempting to quote Carbonationspren question regarding whether metal inside you must be touching you to be burned. Hopefully I have done so correctly. If it isn't simply clicking the Quote button and then posting I hope someone will enlighten me in how to do so.

(Edit- Ok so I have to hit the quote button first, hmmmm. Well I don't know how to add it to this post after the fact, and I'd rather not double post. If anyone can tell me how to insert a quote into an existing post and how to turn someone else's forum name into the highlighted, linkable version I have seen on here I would much appreciate it. )

Anyway, yes. This. And my first upvote to you.

We know that feruchemy and hemalurgy require direct physical contact to work. Allomancy seems to only require the metals to be within oneself. We can then hypothesize that for instance, metal flakes being suspended in either stomach acid or even initially a simple water or alcohol solution seems to count as an acceptable reserve of said allomantic metal. If instead the flakes needed to be literally touching the lining of an allomancer's digestive tract we would likely see an allomancers reserve fluctuate with internal fluid levels as various flakes touched the stomach lining and then swirled away. In fact, taking into account duralumin's ability to almost instantly burn the entirety of an metal reserve, we can likely assume at least Some of the swallowed metal would in fact not be in direct contact with the actual flesh of an allomancer at the moment of use.

Therefor, we only need to ask if it is only water based fluids inside the stomach that must then contact the allomantic metal to make it available or if the metal simply being enclosed with the digestive tract is all that is required. If an aqueous solution substitutes for a direct physical connection then the reactivity of ettmetal still poses a problem. 

I hypothesize that it is only the physical location of the metal that is required. This is conjecture, but I somewhat doubt that instantly upon the water/alcohol reaching the inside of an allomancer's stomach it undergoes a cognitive or spiritual transition from "I'm water!" to "I'm a Person!" I would venture it takes digestion and integration into the bloodstream for this change of cognitive aspect to occur. Therefor I see no inherent difference between a metal flake surrounded by water inside a stomach, and a metal flake surrounded by a non-reactive substance inside a stomach. It is still isolated isolated from the allomancer physically and likely cognitively.

And since we know the next large Mistborn series will take place in an era of 1980's-like technology and plastic comes from hydrocarbons which were once part of a living being, I conjecture that even if say another allomantic metal would interfere with accessing an enclosed ettmetal bead, by the time Scandrian technology progresses to early 1900's era Earth analogue they should be able to ingest ettmetal with minimal danger.

Edited by Keithfta
attempting to quote
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What would happen if you stored the flakes in oil, and drank that? From what I can find, oil is normally used to store alkali metals in real life, and IIRC in BoM Wax is given his metals in a whale oil solution, so you should be able to drink metals this way. The main issues are whether or not whale oil prevents ettmetal from exploding (oil seems to work for normal alkali metals, but I'm not a chemist), and making sure that the ettmetal stays inside of the solution while being swallowed.

P.S.
I think this is what @Keithfta is trying to say?

P.P.S
@Keithfta, you can quote people while editing you post by selecting the text of the post you want to quote. If you move your mouse away a message saying "quote this" should pop up. Press it and the quote appears at your text cursor in the text box.

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I need to give you all upvotes, but I can't right now... You're all making really good points that have taken my theory in different (albeit better) directions.

Also, if it was possible to burn ettmetal without it exploding, there's a possibility that anyone can burn ettmetal, just like anyone can burn lerasium. By that logic, everyone on Scadrial is a Lerasium Misting (or no one is, depending on your perspective), and lerasium is of the essence of Preservation. If ettmetal a.k.a. harmonium exists because of the fusion of Preservation and Ruin into Harmony, perhaps it retains that ability from the part of Preservation's essence and anyone can burn it, meaning that everyone/no one is an ettmetal Misting. Then @Carbonationspren's point could be validated. Though I think it could be rendered moot by something from Well of Ascension. When Vin is having her final fight against Zane, she starts to burn the bead of atium Zane had given her earlier, only to find that it's just a bead of another metal with a slight coat of of atium on its exterior. Nevermind, that doesn't count, because the bead was made of lead, wouldn't register to Allomantic senses (I just checked). So how do we know if someone could discern two metals if one is encased in another? Thank you all for your insight.

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If harmonium/ettmetal is actually an alloy of atium and lerasium, then it would:

1) be able to be burned by anyone, as a consequence of being a lerasium-based alloy (as ookla the rusty pointed out)

2) giving the ability to burn atium

Unless, of course the WoB that says a metal mixed with lerasium turns you into a misting of that metal doesn't apply to other god metals, or its powers are modeled after atium. If the latter, then it will most likely have some sort of time-based effect. 

Of course, if harmonium is instead atomically fused, this would of course be null and void, although I do like the idea that it could store any feruchemical attribute, as feruchemy is the balance between Preservation (lerasium) and Ruin (atium). This idea makes more sense when you think of the fact that this is Sazed's metal, and Sazed is (or was, at least) a Feruchemist. (To be honest, that probably doesn't have a ton to do with it, but it seems interesting)

Of course, this is assuming that it doesn't explode on contact with saliva... which I don't think anyone has mentioned so far. Even if it didn't react to stomach acid, it would probably react to saliva.

Edited by xinoehp512
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On 12/6/2017 at 4:15 PM, Carbonationspren said:

Is there any canon that says that the metal inside you must be touching you to be burned? If an Allomancer swallowed, say, a copper-coated Ettmetal bead, then burned the Ettmetal before burning the copper, that seems to solve the problem. The copper would act as an insulator while the Ettmetal was used, then could be safely burned away after the Ettmetal reserves were gone.

Well, I've found a WoB to back this up:

Quote

Lurcher

Can you burn a metal wrapped in another metal, if both are Allomantic? Like, the inner metal, could you just burn that before?

Brandon Sanderson

No, you're gonna have to work your way through the outer one.

Lurcher

And what if it was a non-Allomantic metal? The same?

Brandon Sanderson

It's gonna depend on how thick it is, and stuff. But I would say, if you wrap it in a non-Allomantic metal, that's not good for getting to the metal. It's viable, but it just depends on how thick it is, and things like that. Like, sometimes things have been plated to keep the access to the metal off, but usually you would want to do that in aluminum, to make sure.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/127-salt-lake-city-comiccon-2017/#e5124

So, looking at this, we could use a very thin plating of some Allomantically inert metal that can be digested (or a biodegradable plastic) to allow Allomancers to burn Ettmetal.

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In my opinion the best Allomantic “poison effect” is a Aluminium Lerasium Alloy, which would completely destroy someone’s Allomantic abilities.

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2 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

@Herald Of Justice, where did you hear that? I haven't heard that before.

Sanderson said that the God Alloys of Lerasium turn you into a really powerful misting of the metal it is alloyed with.

therefore, a alloy of Duralumin and Lerasium would overwrite someone’s spiritual dna and they would become a Duralumin gnat. 

Edited by Herald Of Justice
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10 hours ago, Herald Of Justice said:

a alloy of Duralumin and Lerasium would overwrite someone’s spiritual dna and they would become a Duralumin gnat. 

I am pretty sure it wouldn't overwrite. 

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2 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

I am pretty sure it wouldn't overwrite. 

Actually, Sanderson has said that if a misting or a Mistborn burns a Lerasium Alloy it will overwrite the Allomancy they already have, and replace it. An example would be that if a pewterarm burned steel/Lerasium he would cease being a pewterarm and become a coinshot.

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55 minutes ago, Herald Of Justice said:

Actually, Sanderson has said that if a misting or a Mistborn burns a Lerasium Alloy it will overwrite the Allomancy they already have, and replace it. An example would be that if a pewterarm burned steel/Lerasium he would cease being a pewterarm and become a coinshot.

I've looked on Arcanum (admittedly only under the "lerasium" tag) and all I've found regarding this is: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/64-firefight-phoenix-signing/#e894

Which notes that it contradicts earlier statements but disagrees with your statement.

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