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[OB] Tien a Dawnsinger?


teknopathetic

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In the new chapters, Syl mentions she could hear and remember "another voice. Pure, with a song like tapped crystal, distant yet demanding...".

In one swoop Syl mentions singing and crystals (shards). Seem a little familiar? We have Tien, a boy who was pure and obsessed with finding the perfect rocks, being spoken of as having an allure. Could Tien be showing sign of magic? His voice resonates to her in kadalin's memory that seems exceptionally suspicious. Could Tien have been a proto-dawnsinger? Maybe Dawnsingers are actually another form of magic (cultivation-esq), and Tien was starting to be able to utilize it (seeing as other magics are returning as well). The kid spent all day cultivating cute rocks, and now the Spren seem interested in his memory? It is just too much of a hint to be ignored. 

Honor states the Dawnshards are gone, but that doesn't mean that Dawnsingers won't be popping up. Personally, I though Dawnsingers were Parshendi, but now I am not so sure. 

 

Edit:

I asked Brandon "If i am crazy to think that Tien is connected in some way to the DawnSingers.". 

 

Brandon: "You are not crazy to make that connection, but you are not exactly right.  This will be explained in the upcommimg book so you wont have to wait long". 

Edited by teknopathetic
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I believe the prevailing theory right now is that the Dawnsingers were powerful spren and that they were corrupted by Odium to become the Unmade. The second part is less certain. Kabsal stated that they were spren in WoK, although religions in the Cosmere always tend to get a lot of things wrong. So neither are certain, but the first part has at least been stated as fact by someone in-world.

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I just don't think we'll ever find out, since Tien is dead and (so far) it doesn't look like he's going to be the focus of any post-mortem speculations like Shshsh or Gavilar are. Maybe it's just that I never got into him as a character as opposite to a plot point, but I personally feel he was only there to give further depth to Kaladin's backstory and motivations, and it doesn't really go any further than that. Besides, if Syl remembers Kal's parents then she probably remembers Tien too, and would've called him by name or at least made it clear who she meant.

8 minutes ago, Ansalem said:

I believe the prevailing theory right now is that the Dawnsingers were powerful spren and that they were corrupted by Odium to become the Unmade. The second part is less certain. Kabsal stated that they were spren in WoK, although religions in the Cosmere always tend to get a lot of things wrong. So neither are certain, but the first part has at least been stated as fact by someone in-world.

I totally missed this! Do you have a link to a thread about this theory?

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I think that was originally one of mine actually, here is the link to the original thread. 

Its been expanded on a bit since then to address the listener songs and to include the new information from Oathbringer (mainly by Calderis as I don't post much) but most of the info is there.

To go back to the OP, I am fascinated to know what the voice Syl remembers was but I don't think it was Tien. She seems to know enough about Kals family to have referenced him by name and he never really shows any abilities that cant be more easily explained. 

I feel it is more likely to involve Cultivation somehow.

Edited by Jace21
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9 minutes ago, Jace21 said:

I think that was originally one of mine actually, here is the link to the original thread. 

Its been expanded on a bit since then to address the listener songs and to include the new information from Oathbringer (mainly by Calderis as I don't post much) but most of the info is there.

To go back to the OP, I am fascinated to know what the voice Syl remembers was but I don't think it was Tien. She seems to know enough about Kals family to have referenced him by name and he never really shows any abilities that cant be more easily explained. 

I feel it is more likely to involve Cultivation somehow.

Yep. The credit here is yours. You planted the seeds of my head canon. 

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I asked Brandon "If i am crazy to think that Tien is connected in some way to the DawnSingers.". 

Brandon: "You are not crazy to make that connection, but you are not exactly right.  This will be explained in the upcomming book, so you wont have to wait long". 

Edited by teknopathetic
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44 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

I asked Brandon "If i am crazy to think that Tien is connected in some way to the DawnSingers.". 

Brandon: "You are not crazy to make that connection, but you are not exactly right.  This will be explained in the upcommimg book, so you wont have to wait long". 

What in the world. 

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I suppose the other powerful Spren have effects other than just being spren. Stormfather has the highstorms, Nightwatcher has the old magic and the Unmade have the Thrill, Deathrattles etc.

If there is still 1 uncorrupted Dawsinger as I think, this WoB could be saying it has a larger effect that was effecting Tien. Makes sense it would be positive based on the description of both Tien and Dawnsingers.

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5 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

I asked Brandon "If i am crazy to think that Tien is connected in some way to the DawnSingers.". 

Brandon: "You are not crazy to make that connection, but you are not exactly right.  This will be explained in the upcomming book, so you wont have to wait long". 

i wonder... since Humans weren't native to Roshar like the Parshendi, they aren't attuned to the rhythms and spren, and everything. Hell, they don't have shells. However, maybe Tien was one of the first humans that has evolved a bit to be more in tune with the planet and can start to hear the Dawnsingers some. /tinfoil

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Ok really crazy theory here, and I don't even really believe it, but is it possible that Tien isn't dead...?
 It could be what his Mom was going to tell him, and sheds new light on her saying "We can rebuild, be a family again. And there’s something else you need to know about. We—”...
Now I lean towards this meaning they had another kid, but it would be so much more dramatic (and admittedly less likely) that somehow Tien has returned. I have absolutely no idea how this would realistically work, but it would also explain how we could be finding out more about Tien. I just don't see how we could be getting more information about him if he's dead... unless his parents know something about Tien that Kaladin didn't. 
It has been talked about before about how it seemed as if maybe his parents didn't love Tien as much as Kaladin based off of their reactions, but maybe their reactions could be explained by them knowing something about Tien that we don't know....
Ok, I know I am mostly rambling, but if that quote from Brandon is correct, it leads me to believe that I have not been looking deeply enough into Tien as a character...
 

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@teknopatheticI don't really believe Tien will come back, but not because he won't be bringing back characters. In fact, a recent post on his facebook page has made it clear that we will see more characters coming back from the dead (I would read that, it is very interesting). He also said:
"However, the story of the cosmere isn't really about who lives or dies. We established early on that there is an afterlife (or, at least, one of the most powerful beings in the Cosmere believes there is–and he tends to be a trustworthy sort.) And multiple books are about people being resurrected. What I'm really interested in is what this does to people. Getting given a second try at life, being reborn as something new. (Or, in some cases, as something worse.) The story of the cosmere is about what you do with the time you have, and the implications of the power of deity being in the hands of ordinary people."
This makes me question if bringing back Tien would be of value in this respect. I am also not sure there is a convincing mechanism for Tien returning to his family. We saw his dead body (through his brother) and he went a long time of being dead. I am mostly just putting a crazy theory out there that could possibly explain some things. I am also picturing how dramatic and unexpected it would be for Kaladin to turn and see his little brother.

As far as seeing a cognitive shadow... that would be interesting. I wonder if we could even see some form of him, especially as some of the characters get closer to the cognitive realm.

 

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On 9/10/2017 at 0:56 PM, teknopathetic said:

i feel like Brandon wouldnt want to bring to life another dead character, but ot would be cool to see Tien as some sort of cognatove shadow.  

i I wonder if any magic systems grant powers specifically to the dead. 

On Threnody that is what shades are.

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