[OB] The Child Surgeon

[Emerald101]

There's also Bavadin, which we all assumed was a male name.

[Toaster Retribution]

I think Mara the four and a half year old super-surgeon is the suckling child in  the Death Rattle, as well as the champion of Odium.

[frozndevl]

Regardless of past experience, you asked for a reason why and I gave you one.

It's interesting that Bavadin is female since I think of all of the vessels (that's the correct term, right?) as gender neutral.

[Erunion]

22 minutes ago, frozndevl said:

Regardless of past experience, you asked for a reason why and I gave you one.

It's interesting that Bavadin is female since I think of all of the vessels (that's the correct term, right?) as gender neutral.

But we have to remember that while the power is neutral, the vessels themselves were people first before they Ascended at the shattering of Adonalsium. 

[Toaster Retribution]

22 minutes ago, frozndevl said:

Regardless of past experience, you asked for a reason why and I gave you one.

It's interesting that Bavadin is female since I think of all of the vessels (that's the correct term, right?) as gender neutral.

The Vessels do have genders (or at least had before their Ascension). Ati, Leras, Rayse, Sazed and Tanavast are male. Cultivation, Edgli and (most likely) Bavadin are female.

[Hafrigado]

36 minutes ago, frozndevl said:

Simple, in the English language, Mara is typically a name for a female human.

Yeah the only example of a male Mara (at least in English) I can think of is one of the gods from the Belgariad.

 

24 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I think Mara the four and a half year old super-surgeon is the suckling child in  the Death Rattle, as well as the champion of Odium.

In the place of a Dark Lord you would have a Queen! Not dark but beautiful and terrible as the Morn! Treacherous as the Seas! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love her and despair!

[Emerald101]

32 minutes ago, frozndevl said:

It's interesting that Bavadin is female since I think of all of the vessels (that's the correct term, right?) as gender neutral.

It's true that they no longer have bodies in the same way that they did before they ascended, but we've seen pretty clearly with Kaladin's brands how the way people view themselves can have very tangible effects in the cosmere. Since the vessels likely view themselves as being that gender, we should treat them as such. Also, WoB says vessels can have children.

[Toaster Retribution]

18 minutes ago, Hafrigado said:

In the place of a Dark Lord you would have a Queen! Not dark but beautiful and terrible as the Morn! Treacherous as the Seas! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love her and despair!

Pretty much, yeah.

[Fulminato]

9 hours ago, Erunion said:

That's a really good question. 
Fingerless gloves? Those would be pretty scandalous though. And how old is Mara? Is she young enough not to have covered her hand?
Or is she just amazingly good with her uncovered hand? Do they have special surgeons gloves? Or does vorinism make an exception for surgeons?

Mara i suppose is a darkeye, and darkeyes women use regular glove.

1 hour ago, BlackYeti said:

But this is Roshar, why would we assume that it's the same there?

I seem to recall that when Brandon first started writing Mistborn, people initially assumed Vin to be male due to her name, which is why he made certain to use female pronouns for her early on. In the Way of Kings Prime, Kalladin was called Merrin, which most people thought sounded feminine. I don't think we can really use the name by itself as an indicator of gender.

all the name in the books so far follow our male/female patter. thinking of 'mara' like a male name is highly improbable.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Fulminato

[frozndevl]

I understand that the vessels were people (mostly) and as such they do have a gender, I just think of them more as a power since they've been around long enough that their core self has probably been mostly subsumed by the Shard.

[BlackYeti]

4 hours ago, Fulminato said:

Mara i suppose is a darkeye, and darkeyes women use regular glove.

I think your logic is flawed here. Darkeyed women do indeed wear gloves, however, Vorin society is structured on the principle that women are only allowed to take jobs that do not require two hands to perform. If the gloves were a loophole, then women would not be barred from any job. Instead, they wear gloves, only because it is impractical for them not to.

Moreover, given the standards of hygiene that we saw Lirin insist upon in Kaladin's flashback chapters, do you really think that he would allow his apprentice to wear a glove?

4 hours ago, Fulminato said:

all the name in the books so far follow our male/female patter. thinking of 'mara' like a male name is highly improbable.

The only problem with that argument there is that there are not really any characters from Roshar that have names that we would expect to see in real life, so I suppose you're right on a technicality.  However, it in no way makes for a convincing argument. I would actually find an argument that the terrestrial nature of the name Mara implies that he/she will be a worldhopper to be far more convincing.

[Ytsken]

14 hours ago, SLNC said:

Now, Syl says, that she had heard another voice, when she said, that she remembered Kaladin's parents.

Wouldn't this description apply more to Laral?

And as for the 'other thing he needs to know'... how about the fact that Laral's engagement was not to Roshone (which they all believed back when Kaladin left) but instead was to the other Brightlord present at the time... Amaram.

And she is here... maybe with her husband the Shardbearer who helped defend against the Voidbringers. But regardless... Laral being the person both Syl and Hesina refer to makes a lot more sense than a toddler sister/apprentice Kaladin never knew.

[WhiteLeeopard]

27 minutes ago, Ytsken said:

And as for the 'other thing he needs to know'... how about the fact that Laral's engagement was not to Roshone (which they all believed back when Kaladin left) but instead was to the other Brightlord present at the time... Amaram.

And she is here... maybe with her husband the Shardbearer who helped defend against the Voidbringers

Probability: unlikely.

Alethi lighteyes go to war together, man to lead and fight, woman to write and politick behind the scenes. If Laral had married Amaram its almost certain she would have gone to the camp with him, and Kaladin would have seen her during his 4 years serving there. 

Amaram been there is also very unlikely as 

1. He was doing Son of Honor business last time we saw him, and on his way to Urithiru I believe.

2. He was entirely focused on Taln, helping a 4th league forgotten town would be at the bottom of his list of things to do

3. If he had been in the town in the past 5 years I bet his parents would have (respectfully but insistenly, they were 2nd nahn after all, couldn't just be brushed aside) asked about their sons in more detail, and Amaram didn't remember Tien from a lost chull, and likewise forgot about Kaladin 5min after branding him and stealing his Shards. 

4. If Amaram is there, he will not know Kaladin's new public status, would try to kill him as revenge for been the cause of losing so much influence on Alethkar/Dalinar. That would give Kaladin a chance to claim by killing him he was protecting himself. Amaram would drop dead 10 secs after proclaiming for Kaladin to be executed, and that would be a rather abrupt and anticlimatic end to Amaram. (Not that it wouldn't be fun )

On Laral been the voice Syl hears, maybe. 

Edited September 6, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard

[Nathrangking]

I'd like her to secretly be fafen in disguise. Kaladin brings her back to Urithiru and she meets Zahel and then the fun begins!

[Harbour]

In before Mara is a grown girl and future romantic interest of Kaladin, probably red herring.

[Khyrindor]

I'm thinking that there is a new sibling for Kaladin, but the sibling isn't Mara. Mara could be a relative or someone new, perhaps. Don't know about female or male yet, honestly, but Hesina helps Lirin quite a bit as is, so I'm sure he at least would make exceptions to Vorinism when it came to saving a life. 

On the sibling bit, Kaladin would 100% treat the child like he/she was Tien incarnate. He'd have a very very tough time leaving his family as his promise to Dalinar says he has to go to Kholinar and the Oathgate. Here's to hoping they all join him and go together; they'd be safer in Urithiru.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Khyrindor

[Khyrindor]

Whoops, ignore this. 

Edited September 7, 2017 by Khyrindor

[Watchcry]

12 hours ago, Harbour said:

In before Mara is a grown girl and future romantic interest of Kaladin, probably red herring.

I'm thinking the same thing. 

[MoS03]

New sibling, perhaps, but not someone capable of surgery, not yet. Relative of Hesina's? I still think she's half-lighteyes.

[Fulminato]

searching trough WoR for another matter i found

"Dalinar undid his breastplate and sat down with a grunt as the surgeon ordered him a stool. He suffered the woman’s ministration, though he knew the wound was not terrible. It was bad—any wound was bad on the battlefield, particularly if it impaired the sword arm—but it wouldn’t kill him." [chapter 83, time's illusion]

a woman surgeon is a common thing in the vorin/alethi society.