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[OB] Oathbringer 4-6


Steeldancer

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2 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I agree. But at the same time, when the world is ending, you move and do what you have to do to save it, or you watch it all get lost. If the alethi grumble too much Dalinar can just kick them out of Urithiru (try to open the Oathgate without a Radiant). Enough alethi have enough brains to know the end of the world has come.

...

Ialai, I'm sure we haven't seen the last of her, but the time for politicking is over, at least among the alethi. With other kingdoms, maybe there is still some diplomacy to do. The Alethi have had 2 books of their pettiness, and they have seen first hand it all come to a head. Get with the program or die.

The politics will be reduced, perhaps, but they won't go away. Even Sadeas was smug in his confidence that he could turn it to his advantage despite everything else that happened just before Adolin killed him. While some may view the Everstorm and related events as a crisis that requires relinquishing political activities, others will see it as an opportunity to feed their aspirations.

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The rift between Dalinar and Elhokar can be really a chance - with Elhokar recognizing his problem as the first step.

Urithiru isn't the place for the king of Alethkar, here he will always be in the shadow of his uncle.

His responsibility are his people after the everstorm and the riots in Kholinar - preferably with the Alethi soldiers who want to be at home and help their families.

On the other hand - Dalinar can't leave Urithiru at the moment, he has the problem with the other oatgates, with the other kingdoms and with new Radiants.

He has to learn how to delegate...

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17 minutes ago, Elena said:

Also very random: I have not seen nearly enough reaction at Kal's remark about Roshone's coat. Adolin sure would be proud

I think this was to contrast with our introduction to Roshone.  The pride in the new citylord wearing a takama - a little out-dated, sure, but a warrior's garment.  Now, Kaladin is seeing him as outdated and out-of-touch.

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Just now, redbishop said:

I think this was to contrast with our introduction to Roshone.  The pride in the new citylord wearing a takama - a little out-dated, sure, but a warrior's garment.  Now, Kaladin is seeing him as outdated and out-of-touch.

YES! Also his grand introduction - a man from the capital, haughty and refined. Now Kaladin sees him from what he is, a small fish and a petty bully.

Speaking of, I'm curious about Laral - I'm assuming she'll show up in the next chapter. I've always liked her a lot, and I hope being married to Roshone and at such a young age didn't mess her up too much.

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10 minutes ago, IceBaka said:

The politics will be reduced, perhaps, but they won't go away. Even Sadeas was smug in his confidence that he could turn it to his advantage despite everything else that happened just before Adolin killed him. While some may view the Everstorm and related events as a crisis that requires relinquishing political activities, others will see it as an opportunity to feed their aspirations.

I agree with that. Uniting the world behind the Knights Radiant is an inherently political task. Lines of authority are going to be redrawn, new powers are going to rise up and old ones will fall away, and people are going to have opinions about all of that as much as one might wish otherwise. If you're going to require their help, you need to bring them on board somehow. I imagine that Dalinar's going to get a lesson in this.

Also, something has to serve as Dalinar's main plot for this book. Taravangian's going to be rebuilding Jah Keved for a little while before he can make a major move, and there's enough chaos back home to suggest that Dalinar & co. will need to focus on rebuilding Alethkar. Meanwhile, it makes sense for Dalinar's character arc that he finally be pushed to assume the throne for real. So I think a Dalinar v. Elhokar showdown makes a lot of sense at this point in the series.

 

7 minutes ago, Elena said:

YES! Also his grand introduction - a man from the capital, haughty and refined. Now Kaladin sees him from what he is, a small fish and a petty bully.

That is an excellent observation.

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4 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

And Kaladin has both his hands firmly on the Idiot Ball right now. "I will protect those I hate, so long as it is just." As far as he knows, there are Voidbringers ready to destroy his hometown. And he goes and punches the man in charge of the city. He's putting his personal vendettas ahead of his oaths again, exactly what he supposedly overcame in WoR.

Just because he punched him in the face once, doesn't mean, that he wouldn't protect him...

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I guess the fate of Shshshs will be revealed in the last Dalinar's flashbacks. And it will be paralleled with present time heroic deeds of Dalinar. If to speculate, id say well see Dalinar doing horrible things to save Shshshs, while present day Dalinar will save Navani in a much more adult and epic way. 

Well, id speculate even further. That most likely won't happen but giving the direction Dalinar goes (The Beast without a control -> the Human in a full self-control), id say we will see him killing Shshshs in anger and blood drive (Thrill) during the fight against those who kidnapped her. Then in present, Dalinar tragically lets Navani die bounded by his oaths, suppressing his anger and inner beast, to save everyone else. That will be his sacrifice and burden but also will show him grown and matured.

Edited by Harbour
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As it was, he’d traveled over a thousand miles in half a day, but this last bit—ninety or so miles—had taken an excruciating three days

This is actually quite impressive. 90 miles (144 km), would be roughly 30 miles (48 km) per day. Without Stormlight. You can walk that in the first day maybe, but for 3 days in a row... Makes me wonder if KR are stronger than normal men due to the Nahel bond, even without stormlight. He doesn't look tired enough to not have slept in 3 days, just depressed (nothing new there). He also had to stay still during the Everstorm. Could just be a mundane explanation such as he is in good shape, and stubborn, but could also be something more? 

Edited by WhiteLeeopard
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Won't read through everything on here yet till tonight or tomorrow, but I wanted to throw my two cents in without being "tainted" by all the ideas on here.

* The obvious choice for the chapter epigraphs is Jasnah, so that's fascinating. My first guess was Dalinar.

* Glad to see the Stormfather is remaining somewhat "aloof". Some were worried that he was becoming too "buddy-buddy" with Dalinar.

* *Facepalm* I apparently switched the storms around in my head and forgot the Everstorm was going the wrong way. I do wonder why it's silent though. Perhaps Dalinar is just too far away from the lightning to hear it?

* The enemy rides this storm??? That's terrifying. Is Odium on Roshar now?

* Yaaay! Dalinar admitted a secret to Navani. Good job, Dalinar, I'm glad that didn't take you all book like someone else we know. *Cough*Kaladin*Cough*

* Some delicious new information. He married her for the Shardplate. She was taken hostage. I wonder by whom? Maybe some other Highprince during their conquest?

* Oooooo a somewhat Vorin wedding. And by the Stormfather himself. I wasn't expecting it but it does make sense. Still frustrating that Kadash is still hesitant to accept it. I expect more trouble by the church. I certainly hope Kadash isn't one of those zealots like the Sons of Honor. Also some more teases at Dalinar's past. I definitely don't remember Kadash being that important to Dalinar from the first two books, but I'll look for that in the reread.

* So Elhokar is in Urithiru... I wonder if the other kings know that, as they refer to Dalinar as the de facto king of Alethkar. Elhookar doesn't seem too happy with Dalinar, but in a way that he senses it's right anyway. I smell drama.

* Okay, here's the Kaladin "Chapter 1" from before. But luckily it keeps going.

* Syl's aunt hunts gloomspren. Very cool. Maybe that's why they're so rare.

* I am glad to see that Kaladin's depression is still a part of him, but I sense that he's not letting it own him this time. He still has the self-rejection and guilt, but something is different. I didn't want the same old storyline with him struggling through it dominating this story. He's dreading things like facing his parents, but he knows what he has to do, and he knows the cost of focusing more on his own shortcomings in the face of the Everstorm.

* Yaaasssss his parents are alive. I knew it! Also, Kaladin just throwing the guard away. Yaasss.

* Shockspren. I love all these new spren we're seeing.

* Heartwarming reunion. Basically what I expected, but I know that there will be some drama. Dang it Kaladin, suck up some stormlight and summon Syl to show them all who's boss so that they stop accusing you of all those things.

* "We had to dedicate your spot to something else, Kaladin." Hmmmmm is there a new child? Or another person staying with them? That would be interesting as well.

* Mara, the apprentice. Very interesting. Maybe she's staying with his parents? Now, was Vivenna called Mara as a cover name in Warbreaker, or am I just remembering Nyneave?

* "Something else you need to know about-" grrrr. Don't cut her off I need answers.

* "Perhaps it was time, for once, to stop letting the rain dictate his mood. He couldn’t banish the seed of darkness inside him, but Stormfather, he didn’t need to let it rule him either." Yes, good job Kaladin that's real growth.

* YES PUNCH HIM KALADIN. Storms, I wasn't expecting that but I hope it doesn't cause too much problems. As soon as he summons the blade they'll all realize he's in charge now. That was badchull. Oh my.

 

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5 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

This is actually quite impressive. 90 miles (144 km), would be roughly 30 miles (48 km) per day. Without Stormlight. You can walk that in the first day maybe, but for 3 days in a row... Makes me wonder if KR are stronger than normal men due to the Nahel bond, even without stormlight. He doesn't look tired enough to not have slept in 3 days, just depressed (nothing new there). He also had to stay still during the Everstorm. Could just be a mundane explanation such as he is in good shape, and stubborn, but could also be something more? 

I'm going with the mundane explanation here. If all he is doing is walking and sleeping, that gives him 16 hours a day to walk 30 miles, so rounding gives him 2 miles an hour. That's not fast walking. He's been in shape as his last oath healed him of all his wounds and probably restored him to his peak strength.

He's a soldier and was drilling, so I expect he is probably a bit tired, but also motivated to get home.

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My first impressions of Chapter 5 Hearthstone (I still haven't read any other posts in this thread yet -- but I promise I will get to them)

 

Quote

I’m certain some will feel threatened by this record. Some few may feel liberated. Most will simply feel that it should not exist.

I needed to write it anyway.

I know that many women who read this will see it only as further proof that I am the godless heretic everyone claims

I can point to the moment when I decided for certain this record had to be written.  I hung between realms, seeing into Shadesmar--the realm of the spren--and beyond.

Its Jasnah!  Why didn't I see it before.  Godless heretic.  Of course it is Jasnah. Jasnah is on the cover of Oathbringer.  Of course it is Jasnah. How could I have ever thought it was Navani? I mean, I already read about this experience she is referring to. (I'm sure that if I had just kept reading after the last chapter I wouldn't have even remembered that at one time I even considered Navani as the author -- getting these chapters in pieces and recording my micro-reactions is such a different experience -- I'm not sure what to think of it yet) 

Quote

She pressed back against the wall, breathing deeply.  I, she thought. need to write this experience down. 

 

--Words of Radiance. prologue pg 23 (Jasnah speaking)

 

 

Kaladin's Journey

So, I've read this scene before -- or parts of it. I'm pretty sure that Sneaky Sanderson left the following line out of the version I read online awhile ago.

Quote

The Everstorm hadn’t recharged his spheres, of course. Neither with Stormlight nor some other energy, which he’d feared might happen.

So nothing happened at all to the spheres in the Everstorm.  Nothing. (Confirmed a second time)

So how long will Roshar go without Stormlight?  The normal time during the weeping? Or will it be longer? How will our Radiants be radiant without stormlight?

I don't have much else to say.  Perhaps because I've seen this before.  But why does it end here?  I really, really want more. I am not satisfied.

 

SPREN OBSERVATIONS for Oathbringer Chapter 5: Hearthstone

lifespren

rainspren -- blue candles with eyes

gloomspren (long, grey, like a tattered streamer of cloth)

 

COLOR OBSERVATIONS for Oathbringer Chapter 5: Hearthstone

vibrant green grass

motes of green dust

yellowish patches (of grass)

Red storm

Your eyes are brown again (Kaladin's eyes -- Syl speaking)

glassy light blue (Kaladin's eyes)

pale while blue (description of Syl)

blue candles (rainspren)

grey (gloomspren)
 

 

 

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I just found Kal non-sensical.

How about a span reed to hearthstone instead of sending Kaladin?  They could have told Roshone to keep the parents safe as an order.

Then Kal punches Roshone for a traitor.... will go down well!

 

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Sorry I didn't read all the comments yet (only page 1), because I didn't want to be influenced by what other people said.

So I think Dalinar might have done something awful to his wife when she was taken hostage. Kadash's comment sounds horrific enough that Dalinar butchered everyone during the hostage-taking and after that.

If the voidbringer didn't make so much damage in Heartstone, and given the comment from Hesina cut off by Lirin, and the change in Roshone's personnality, might we infer that a Surgebinder appeared in the town at some time ? Like a Truthwatcher or a Edgedancer ? (More likely a Truchwatcher, to warn about the incoming catastrophy). Did another Surgebinder from somewhere else came to fend of the Voidbringers ?

What if Gavilar wrote the book Oathbringer ? He had the visions, as has Dalinar, and interpreted it differently from Dalinar. Only the thing about Shadesmar seems of for him, but that would be a twist. IIRC, Brandon said every title will be from an in-book existing book. If so, a book being written during the action count as an actual book ?

Thank you Kaladin for remembering to punch Roshone. But I hope he remembers he has to protect him too. The appearance of Gloomspren is enough to make me fear another handful of dark-Kaladin chapters.

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1 minute ago, axcellence said:

How about a span reed to hearthstone instead of sending Kaladin?  They could have told Roshone to keep the parents safe as an order.

He tried to reach Hearthstone by spanreed, but none of the villages had a connection to Hearthstone. It's pretty rural after all.

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2 minutes ago, JoyBlu said:

So how long will Roshar go without Stormlight?  The normal time during the weeping? Or will it be longer? How will our Radiants be radiant without stormlight?

It's normal during the Weeping, since that is just normal rain. From what I've seen others discussing, we are probably a week or so away from a normal highstorm. Though, with the Stormfather kicking off a bonus storm at the end of WoR, who knows?

1 minute ago, axcellence said:

How about a span reed to hearthstone instead of sending Kaladin?

That implies that Hearthstone had one. I'm going to guess not since it's not a really important location.

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12 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

This is actually quite impressive. 90 miles (144 km), would be roughly 30 miles (48 km) per day. Without Stormlight. You can walk that in the first day maybe, but for 3 days in a row... Makes me wonder if KR are stronger than normal men due to the Nahel bond, even without stormlight. He doesn't look tired enough to not have slept in 3 days, just depressed (nothing new there). He also had to stay still during the Everstorm. Could just be a mundane explanation such as he is in good shape, and stubborn, but could also be something more? 

I disagree with this. My father once ran 107 miles in 24 hours; 90 miles in 3 days, by comparison, doesn't really sound that impressive to me.

Edited by BlackYeti
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I feel like we could easily spend 100 hours theorising about the exact situation in Hearthstone e.g. did someone else warn them? Did the Voidbringers run off? Had Roshone sold his Parshmen? Were the Voidbringers fought? Does Kaladin have another sibling? What's Kaladin going to do next?

But... We'll probably have answers to all of those questions next week, looking forward to it :)

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I keep seeing people confused by Navanis red wedding dress as if it should be white. Is there any evidence that we have seen that Rosharans wear white for their weddings? This is a world where people have crab things for dogs, and cover their hands for the sake of modesty. Is a red wedding dress so unusual??

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5 hours ago, Pagerunner said:
  • Dalinar believes that the vision he received at the end of WoR (light and warmth) is from a god above the Almighty. Our understanding leaves no tangible deity above the Shards. So, he's incorrect. Right?

No.  I'd interpret the situation like Dalinar does. Just because you were there when Adonalsium splintered, and you got some of the power, doesn't make you a god.  Nor does the lack of a "tangible" deity above the Shards mean there isn't a deity above them.

Quote

Syl is clear: she remembers Kaladin's family, even though she hadn't been with Kaladin in Hearthstone. I think the other voice she mentions is Tien. But that begs the question, where did Kaladin's spear skills come from? He felt something the moment he picked up a spear, but something he thought he lost in WoR when he was breaking his bond with Syl. He thought all of his spear skills came from the bond. But he was drawn to the spear before the bond.

I totally agree, and think the voice is Tien, calling Kaladin back from darkness.

Edited by Lightning
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6 minutes ago, Khyrindor said:

* The obvious choice for the chapter epigraphs is Jasnah, so that's fascinating. My first guess was Dalinar.

I immediately thought the same thing, then decided that since Jasnah is sounding so obvious now ('heretic') then she's probably not it. The reminders that the book should not exist. It's addressed to the women reading this, which sounds odd to me. Sure, women read, but they read to men. Books are not intended for one gender only; men have dictated books and men have had books read to them. Both gender consume reading material albeit in different ways, and it is such an accepted fact of Voring culture that it seems so odd to remark on it in such a 'sharp' way, so early into the book. This remarks makes me think the writer is overly conscious of gender roles, wants to drive home the point that is women who read. We know most books in Voring countries aren't addressed to a general (male and female) audience; this is why scribes leave notes and commentary for each other. So I am almost certain that the writer must be a man.

To make an example - I live in an overwhelmingly majority Catholic country. Priests are men and that is a fact. It's an universal thruth - much like Vorin women reading and writing, really. If you walk into a church it will be a man giving the sermon. I don't even think about it nor I comment on it because it is obvious to me. Someone from another country with different religious demographics may remark on it. Someone wishing to challenge this fundamental Church norm would probably remark on it as well. That particular turn of phrase, to me, sounds A LOT as if a man had wrote it. It's driving home the point that women are the custodians of the written word in a way a woman likely wouldn't, because it'd be superfluous otherwise. It's saying 'I'm here, I'm writing this book even though I should not, get used to it'. It's a challenge.

It also explains the heretic bit, definitely. A man who learned how to write would immediately be branded an heretic, and you know Dalinar is well on his way to heresy already.

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3 minutes ago, Asrael said:

I keep seeing people confused by Navanis red wedding dress as if it should be white. Is there any evidence that we have seen that Rosharans wear white for their weddings? This is a world where people have crab things for dogs, and cover their hands for the sake of modesty. Is a red wedding dress so unusual??

Err... well red wedding dresses are common on planet earth for some cultures, and white is a mourning colour for some.

So, it didn't strike me as much as others

 

 

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