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[OB] Oathbringer 4-6


Steeldancer

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One complaint I do have is the lack of both Renarin and Shallan. (Especially Shallan though. Has she done anything yet besides stand in the background?) I get that there are a lot of characters to juggle and that this is Dalinar's book and that we only have the first 6 chapters, but they've been in Urithiru for several days now, and we haven't heard a single thing about Shallan exploring the secrets of the Radiants. Is she dealing with the Ghostbloods already? And speaking of Renarin, has seriously no one asked 'Hey, what's up with this Radiant stuff?' It was so out of no where at the end of WoR, I would think that Dalinar would ask a few more questions. Has anyone seen Glys? Has he explained his powers or anything yet to anybody? Is he still having visions? What was Adolin's reaction to his gf and brother being Radiants from the legends? WHY ISN'T DALINAR INTERACTING WITH EITHER OF THE TWO SURGEBINDERS RIGHT BESIDE HIM? 

I'm hoping that Branderson will address all of this in due time, it just feels weird to shove them both to the side without any reference or hints to what they might be doing. 

Edited by Pammie
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2 minutes ago, Bcknight2 said:

I see another, more mundane possibility, Roshone has fallen on hard times and can no longer afford any parshmen. It is mentioned that Roshone's armor is out of date before Kal decks him...

Edgedancer spoiler:

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Also, while I like the theory that Odium is marshaling the newly turned voidbringers to him, I thought the newly turned parshmen in edgdancer didn't cause much mayhem because Nale dealt with them after Lift broke through his insanity...

 

This is certainly possible. However, we do have the damaged hovel where the parshmen used to be, and I also think that Odium would want an army somewhere. We already know that his forces will attack Kholinar, so it seems likely that they are gathering.

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“I will not hold back truth if I find it, Kadash,” Dalinar said. “You just saw that I am literally bound to a spren of oaths. I don’t dare lie.”

A spren of Oaths? That is an Interesting way to describe the stormfather Dalinar, but it clears the question as to what kind of spren bondsmiths bond, Oath spren, though the stormfather is definitely has a large piece of the shard of honor, and likely even some of Tanavast's memories, but that doesn't mean he can't be a spren as well, one with an intent as tunnel visioned as the others

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10 minutes ago, frozndevl said:

There isn't much, if any, Stormlight around so he can't get all glowy and show off yet.

He could make the shardblade-Syl appears, and a darkeyes slave suddenly becomes in a 4 dahn lighteyes.You could almost hear Roshone mind exploding.

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31 minutes ago, Argent said:

"Soft-skinned" is a made-up terms, right? Not an English phrase? Because it feels very appropriate for Roshar where everything has a shell.

Nah, it's a standard phrase, means weak.

 

31 minutes ago, Argent said:

Ayy, a new type of spren! Glorious day!

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What about starspren? That one caught my eye earlier.

 

1 hour ago, Advanthera said:

I was feeling what everyone else said about the first few chapters feeling off - but these one pulled me right back in. They felt like Stomrlight Archive again <3 Such great reads.

I agree with this as well... it felt better. Part of it could be we were so used to reading Kaladin PoV that having him back made sense. Also, it could be that the exposition is starting to taper a bit and we get more into the "voice" of the characters.

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6 minutes ago, Idealistic said:

He could make the shardblade-Syl appears, and a darkeyes slave suddenly becomes in a 4 dahn lighteyes.You could almost hear Roshone mind exploding.

I can only assume that this is pretty much his plan, since he discovered things are largely intact.  His initial warn-them-and-help seems to be overcome by events, so...  now he can right a few wrongs.  He has seen a lot of maltreatment by Roshone, and there were quite a few comments where his scorn for the local soldiers is apparent.  Punch the Citylord out, summon a lambent shardspear, defeat the guard - bona fides established.

I wonder if his reunion with his parents - and the fact that they don't seem to hold ill-will regarding Tien's death - will lead to him no longer seeing himself as a slave, and the brands being healed in the first gasp of post-Weeping Stormlight?

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4: Dalinar and Navani have shot-gun marriage on top of a skyscraper that would put Las Vegas to shame!

5: Kaladin's gloomy homecoming

6: Kaladin punches away the gloom

 

I'm having severe Shallan withdrawal symptoms here. I can't imagine her quietly hanging out in the background is by accident though, so I can't help but wonder what's going on in Shallan-land.

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Just now, kari-no-sugata said:

4: Dalinar and Navani have shot-gun marriage on top of a skyscraper that would put Las Vegas to shame!

5: Kaladin's gloomy homecoming

6: Kaladin punches away the gloom

 

I'm having severe Shallan withdrawal symptoms here. I can't imagine her quietly hanging out in the background is by accident though, so I can't help but wonder what's going on in Shallan-land.

Perhaps the 'Veil' persona is starting to influence her 'Shallan' persona, letting her know that shutting up is sometimes useful? And yes, I know she doesn't have disassociative disorder.

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Only a few quick thoughts:

What oaths had Navani broken before?

I think the death of shshsh as a hostage and Dalinar full of hate and Thrill is connected with what had happened in Rathalas.

SomeTHING with Lirin and Hasina?

Syl isn't much afraid of the new storm and the consequences.

No Stormform or something like that, no Parshmen had attacked. I think - like Gavilar had planned - 'an old ancient spren' had the Parshmen transformed back into Listener.

And I like/love the reunion of Kaladin's family.

Edited by hypatia
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That was SO great.

I was reading the chapter on the bus and I teared up a little at Kaladin's reunion with his parents. Syl is awesome. I love her! I also appreciate that I can tell that every character (at least the main players) have gone through some growth in the last two books. It makes me unaware of what they're going to do next.

Chapter 4 was also super great! Very unexpected. I didn't expect them to have their wedding that way! The people who attended the wedding also surprised me. It makes me realize how much the situation has changed in a very short time. It's also interesting that Dalinar is aware that he's an usurper. I wonder what Elhokar is going to do, if anything?

1 minute ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Not speaking during the wedding is in-character for Shallan, but I am still surprised that she didn´t say much when ordered to train. Perhaps she just agreed with Dalinars decision and decided there was no point in talking.

I don't think she was there at the wedding. It's a little frustrating that we haven't seen her yet but then again, we've only read 6 chapters so far. Unlike Renarin, there hasn't really been a mention of her. Maybe she's out exploring via a disguise? As for Renarin, I hope he takes a more active role soon. I really want to know what is going on inside of his head!

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1 minute ago, sooyangi said:

I don't think she was there at the wedding. It's a little frustrating that we haven't seen her yet but then again, we've only read 6 chapters so far. Unlike Renarin, there hasn't really been a mention of her. Maybe she's out exploring via a disguise? As for Renarin, I hope he takes a more active role soon. I really want to know what is going on inside of his head!

She was mentioned as being one of the people in the elevator with Dalinar right before the wedding. She is mentioned in chapter two as well, as one of those who Dalinar speaks to. He tells her and Renarin to practice with their powers so that they can help lead the other Radiants later.

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Alright. Read chapters, did some worked skimmed the thread.

Confirmed that Everstorm is completely new. (glad that fights over) 

Dalinar admits he can't remember Evi to someone else finally. 

And most importantly WHAT HAPPENED AT THE RIFT!?!?! 

Kadash on the ground vomiting and becomes an ardent the very next day over something purged from Dalinar's memory? 

I'm definitely doubling down on the "Dalinar killed his wife" thing

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8 minutes ago, Flash said:

I'm fascinated by Kaladins description of having lived 4 lives. 

Youth, Soldier, Slave, Radiant?

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

Kadash on the ground vomiting and becomes an ardent the very next day over something purged from Dalinar's memory? 

I just had the thought that if the wife was a hostage, that he had to make the choice to end fighting which resulted in her death... or something worse, he struck through her to enemy killing her in the process. Or maybe the "if you kill me, the hostage dies" scenario where he had to kill the villain and she died a horrible death.

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As for "Oathbringer" my first thought was Jasnah. Shadesmar... Heretic... But it's too obvious. 

Then the setup for the backlash from the Devotaries points towards Dalinar... But that just doesn't feel quite right either. 

The more I think about it, the more Renarin feels right. The "and beyond" comment may have to do with his sight, and if he is going to start actively looking forward he will be branded a heretic without a doubt. 

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I haven't read any other posts in this thread yet (I will get them eventually -- didn't want to spoil my first impressions)  -- but here are my thoughts/impressions/questions regarding Chapter 4 Oaths.

I loved this chapter!!!!  So much going on.

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I’m certain some will feel threatened by this record. Some few may feel liberated. Most will simply feel that it should not exist.

I needed to write it anyway.

I know that many women who read this will see it only as further proof that I am the godless heretic everyone claims.

So after reading this chapter, I am convinced that in book Oathbringer is written by Navani.  There is so much going on in the first part of this chapter about Navani's hands. 

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He passed Navani—who sat at the writing desk working on her memoirs again

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His eyes flickered down, and he noticed that she’d removed the glove from her safehand. It was barely visible in the dark: slender, gorgeous fingers—delicate, with the nails painted a blushing red.

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He lifted his hand to grasp Navani’s,

Save for that hand, with which she caressed his chin.

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her hand still casually uncovered,

 

So the question is -- what has been uncovered by Navani's hands and what has her hands written about in Oathbringer???

 

The color Red.

Red was mentioned many times in the chapter.  Red Lightning in Black Coulds, Red Eyes in the Blackness below.  But it was also mentioned on Navani's blushing Red nails, and her wedding dress was Red!  Red for Luck.  Who has a red wedding dress?  And obviously she had it for awhile. (My favorite line in the entire chapter was 

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A Lady must be prepared

I'm getting the feeling that Navani has some sinister reasons marrying Dalinar and that by the end of the book, we will all wish/hope that they had never gotten married in the first place. This is evidenced by the fact that Stormfather called her out on having broken oaths before and the Gloryspren around her after their marriage. Why gloryspren. She won. Why was getting marrying Dalinar something to win?  She didn't even get a real proposal. 

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"He would not apologize for it, or for her"

I believe that Dalinar will be taking those words back soon. We will soon learn what Oaths Navani has broken in the past, and I believe now that Dalinar would have never married Navani had he remembered Shshshsh, his wife. I believe that Dalinar said earlier in previous books that he has never told anyone, not even his sons that he can't remember Shshshsh.  He told Navani this before they were married. The first person he admitted this to.  Navani had a chance here to tell him what she knows he forgot -- but she didn't because she didn't want to ruin their wedding. It sound to me that Navani knew what his other burse/boon was and now she knows both. Dalinar opened his heart to Navani and was honest with her.  She wasn't open and host back because she has alternate motives. She doesn't love him.  Dalinar won't break the oath of this marriage because it was to the stormfather.  This will be quite the problem later.  He will lose his bond with the Stormfather if he breaks his marriage oath.  (BTW -- He was the first in a Millennia to Bind Stormfather -- so that means that Gavilar did not bind him!)

 

Dalinar & his past

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. “You know how I was, what I became, when I was a man with no control. I will not surrender now.”

 

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“You are the woman I love,” Dalinar said, pulling her tight. “A woman I have always loved.”

 

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That… and a long march alone, accompanied only by hatred and the Thrill. He remembered those emotions vividly. He’d brought vengeance to those who had taken his wife from him.

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appreciate the man you have become; you should avoid reminding me of the man you once were.”

“The Rift,” Dalinar whispered. “Rathalas.”

. Do not forget that I was there. You are not infallible.

 

As I've mentioned before, I am steeling myself to really be disgusted with Dalinar.  It will be worse than discovering Shallan's past.  "Words are the most important things in my life right now" So I guess he did what Gavilar told him to.  He found those important words. I think we will find out a time in Dalinar's life when he didn't "always love" Navani. It will be exciting to see the flashbacks of the Rift, Rathalas and such. Somthing to look forward to. So much foreshadowing here.

 

Random Thoughts

My second favorite quote in this chapter is

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he had the power of a god, but not the pedigree

I think this plays into the Cosmere and I love it.  What is the Pedigree of the Gods?

 

The Everstorm did not recharge spheres!  At all!!!!! 

 

Sprens are remnants of shards?  Stormfather is the largest remnant of Honor!!!!

 

Chanada -- have we seen her yet?  I don't remember.  Who is she?  Sounds important.

I love it that May Aladar was at the wedding.  She will be a player -- I'm sure.

 

And last but not least here is a list of spren that were mentioned in this chapter, followed by a list of colors referred to in this chapter. (Is there an ongoing list of types of spren somewhere?)

 

passionspren

windspren

starspren

smokey blue awespren rings

gloryspren

joyspren

 

Red Lighting in Everstorm

Black Clouds

Blushing Red nails (Navani)

Blackness below

red eyes

violet eyes -- Navani

Jade (wedding headdress)

Turquoise (wedding headdress)

Red for Luck (Navani's wedding dress)

Gold (Thread on Navani's wedding dress)

Golden coat (Elhokar's coat)

Golden lights of Gloryspren

light violet eyes (Kadash)

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, frozndevl said:

I just had the thought that if the wife was a hostage, that he had to make the choice to end fighting which resulted in her death... or something worse, he struck through her to enemy killing her in the process. Or maybe the "if you kill me, the hostage dies" scenario where he had to kill the villain and she died a horrible death.

Consumed by hatred and the Thrill... I don't thing the human shield tactic would have worked anyway. We know the Thrill can push towards a desire to fight even when there's not a current opponent, as evidenced by the references to him nearly attacking Gavilar. And know that instance the Thrill leveraged Dalinar's jealousy of Gavilar over Navani to try and make it happen. 

So it may very well have been a human shield type, "kill me and she dies" situation. In that state overcome by the thrill, I think he'd have struck anyway. 

Or being the sociopath the thrill made him, and having the Shardplate he married her for, he may have intentionally struck her down so she couldn't be used against Gavilar and Himself again. 

Kadash had to have a reason to be horrified and swear himself to the ardentia. That's not an accidental death. 

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23 minutes ago, frozndevl said:

Perhaps the 'Veil' persona is starting to influence her 'Shallan' persona, letting her know that shutting up is sometimes useful? And yes, I know she doesn't have disassociative disorder.

I don't see any logical reason for this to be the case. Shallan hasn't been acting as Veil for many weeks at this point, as far as we know. In the last scene we saw of Shallan in WoR (from Dalainar's POV), Shallan seemed a bit "off" to me (quieter and more solemn), but she's like a ghost so far in Oathbringer. Hmm, I do seem to remember that she has a tendency to be quiet in crowds but I thought she got over that in WoR.

So, either Shallan was hit harder by the events at the end of WoR (accepting that she killed her mother), or that changed her more than expected, or something new has happened. Or some combination.

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2 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said:

I don't see any logical reason for this to be the case. Shallan hasn't been acting as Veil for many weeks at this point, as far as we know. In the last scene we saw of Shallan in WoR (from Dalainar's POV), Shallan seemed a bit "off" to me (quieter and more solemn), but she's like a ghost so far in Oathbringer. Hmm, I do seem to remember that she has a tendency to be quiet in crowds but I thought she got over that in WoR.

So, either Shallan was hit harder by the events at the end of WoR (accepting that she killed her mother), or that changed her more than expected, or something new has happened. Or some combination.

Yeah, I don't really believe what I wrote, but worth a discussion since apparently she isn't defending herself!

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Quick Mod Note: please don't post multiple times in a row. If you need to respond to multiple people, use the "+" button beside "Quote" to do a multiquote post. Thanks!

Also, I love these chapters, they're just so good. Definitely upvoted the sentiment that there's not enough Renarin though. There's never enough Renarin for me.

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1 hour ago, PatronOfRot said:

I really hope that Dalinar's curse was specifically to forget shshsh and not "his wife." It would be quite sad if he gradually lost his ability to see Navani and I don't think divorce is possible.

 

I don't think that would go over well with the stormfather. All oaths are important, whether or not they were done in haste, or without full knowledge of the consequences. 

No no no no... please don't let that happen... Brandon....

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I agree on the whole missing Shallan (and even Renarin).  Wouldn't Shallan have accompanied Adolin to the wedding? Fortunately, I think Brandon might cover Shallan more next 3 chapters in the Adolin or Shallan POV chapters so I'll reserve judgment for now.

So happy Kaladin's parents are at least alive (for now). That reunion was long awaited and great to read.  I found it odd that Syl wouldn't have wanted to introduce herself to Lirin/Hesina right away but I guess she could be waiting for an opportunity to do so in private later.  I have this dreadful feeling that Lirin is about to die in front of Kaladin, upgrading Kaladin's gloom to super levels. (Please be wrong :lol:).

 

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