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[OB] Oathbringer 4-6


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16 minutes ago, What's a Seawolf? said:

Also,  "Besides, there was… another voice. Pure, with a song like tapped crystal, distant yet demanding…"

Was that Cultivation (probably with the help of futuresight) calling Syl to Kaladin?

 

I think you're right about that being Cultivation's voice. The only other spren we know that's definitely connected with her is Wyndle and he's described as being a bundle of vines with crystals peeking out. Plus, he apparently grew a crystal garden? And considers himself the purest form of cultivation spren? Maybe crystals will become a running theme with Cultivation. Also, as far as we know, she's stationed somewhere far to the east, so that explains the "clear, distant voice." 

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Some thoughts, i haven't looked at the posts but want to do a dump before i sleep

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Dalinar thought he could see what it had done. A series of impressions, thrown at him in anger. The storm’s experiences as it had slowly crossed Roshar.

Houses ripped apart, screams of the occupants lost to the tempest.

People caught in their fields, running in a panic before the unpredicted storm.

Cities blasted with lightning. Towns cast into shadow. Fields swept barren.

And vast seas of glowing red eyes, coming awake like spheres suddenly renewed with Stormlight.

Dalinar hissed out a long, slow breath, the impressions fading. “Was that real?” he whispered.

Yes, the Stormfather said. The enemy rides this storm. He’s aware of you, Dalinar

Very palantir like. Is Odium actually riding the Storm? A voidish version of the Strormfather? Either way it seems he can get into Dalinar's head. Could the champion vision have been Odium's doing rather than something in Tanavast's vision?

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I can’t remember how she died. That one gets to me, because there are parts of that day I know I should remember. Something about a city in rebellion against my brother, and my wife being taken hostage?”

That… and a long march alone, accompanied only by hatred and the Thrill. He remembered those emotions vividly. He’d brought vengeance to those who had taken his wife from him.

Looks like we know more about shshsh's death, and looks like the theories of Dalinar killing her probably aren't right. Of course anything could've happened.

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There are no foolish oaths. All are the mark of men and true spren over beasts and subspren. The mark of intelligence, free will, and choice.

More evidence that nahel-bond spren do it to get something out of it, that using oaths to forge a bond is related to sapience. 

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“I am comfortable with oaths, Stormfather,” Dalinar called up to him. “As you know.”

YES. THE FIRST IN MILLENNIA TO BIND ME

Millenia. So it has been at least 2000 years since the Recreance. Ok millenia could mean less. But seems to firm up the Recreance as being very old indeed?

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“People feel gloomy all the time.”

“Who knows?” Syl said. “Some spren are common. Some are uncommon.” She tapped his shoulder. “I’m pretty sure one of my aunts liked to hunt these things.”

Hunt them?” Kaladin asked. “Like, try to spot them?”

“No. Like you hunt greatshells. Can’t remember her name…” Syl cocked her head, oblivious to the fact that rain was falling through her form. “She wasn’t really my aunt. Just an honorspren I referred to that way. What an odd memory.”

Aunt? Could it be cultivation? But then strange to refer to her as an honorspren. The previous version of this said relative instead of aunt. And are gloomspren 'normal' spren then or perhaps something more significant? Perhaps related to the feeling pig gloom yay Dalinar got from the everStorm, the thing that was new to the Stormfather? Perhaps an unmade or simply a gloom that Odium puts on the world?

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So how can you remember them?” Kaladin said, frowning.

“Because I do,” Syl said, flitting around him. “Everyone is connected, Kaladin. Everything is connected. I didn’t know you then, but the winds did, and I am of the winds.”

“You’re honorspren.”

“The winds are of Honor,” she said, laughing as if he’d said something ridiculous. “We are kindred blood.”

“You don’t have blood.”

“And you don’t have an imagination, it appears.” She landed in the air before him and became a young woman. “Besides, there was… another voice. Pure, with a song like tapped crystal, distant yet demanding…” She smiled, and zipped away.

Very interesting. Syl being connected (Connected?) to Honor lets her have memories of things that occurred before she became sentient. Would any honorspren have memories of other radiants or would it just be of their own?

And... the voice of Cultivation?? Could honorspren also be partly of Cultivation? Or is Cultivation intervening in Roshar actively now, through the spren?

If so I believe that's the first time we've 'encountered' Cultivation? But i may be misunderstanding. 

There's my brain dump, I'll see the theories in the morning!

Edited by Extesian
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Okay, my thoughts:

-The pure crystal voice might be Cultivation. @Michael Portz Distant yet demanding doesn´t sound like Tien.

-Elhokars behavior in this chapter makes me think he will take on a more antagonistic role, as @maxal has proposed.

-Jasnah is a good suggestion for the Oathbringer author, but I will stick to my idea of it being Ishar a while longer (even though I´m probably wrong).

-Dalinar probably did something that resulted in his wifes death. His trip to the Nightwatcher was probably his first step to achieve control over himself and getting rid of the Thrill.

-Shallan still has no lines of dialogue. 

-Another mention of Aladars daughter.

-Also, I want to see Mraize and Amaram soon!

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Just now, Pammie said:

Maybe crystals will become a running theme with Cultivation.

This also jives well with the fact that Cultivation can see into the future better than Honor, and seeing into the future is kind of like seeing through a crystal - the farther you try to see, the less you can decipher. Didn't Honor or Preservation themselves use a crystal analogy for seeing into the future once?

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7 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

Man, after waiting all that time for a resolution to the Chapter 5, Chapter 6 isn't any better. When we first heard Kaladin's chapter, I had wondered why it didn't seem like they had fought Voidbringers. Kaladin hangs a lampshade on it, but we don't get an answer as to whether or not the parshmen population will adopt the same forms as the Parshendi, if they're on the war path.

Perhaps they are not just yet on war path; perhaps the everstorm just triggers the transformation  from parshmen to parshendi dull form, and only the next highstorm triggers the next step ...

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Well that wedding was fast!

And I am genuinely surprised nothing went terribly wrong, calm before storm I presume (I do NOT apologize for that pun)

The follow up to Kaladin reaching home is something I have been slavering over ever since Brandon released the rough draft of whats now Chapter 5 like two years ago! It was really touching and I liked that Lirin and Hesenia were both still in town and okay instead of "Oh they moved to Kolinar years ago!" style your-princess-is-in-another-castle plot. Especially since the indication that they want him to stay with them sets up some good dramatic hooks since Kaladin probably needs to end up in Kolinar or another big city for the climax anyway to get back into the overarching plot. Lastly as one of her few defenders on this forum (she was just a little girl who had just lost her dad and been told these strange new people would basically decide her future, of course she did whatever she thought would make them happy!) I really wanted to see where Laral ended up. I hope Roshone hasn't done to her what Lin Davar did to Shallan's stepmom.

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7 minutes ago, yahas said:

This also jives well with the fact that Cultivation can see into the future better than Honor, and seeing into the future is kind of like seeing through a crystal - the farther you try to see, the less you can decipher. Didn't Honor or Preservation themselves use a crystal analogy for seeing into the future once?

Shattered glass I believe, Mistborn: Secret Histories spoiler

Preservation to Kelsier.

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14 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

Man, after waiting all that time for a resolution to the Chapter 5, Chapter 6 isn't any better. When we first heard Kaladin's chapter, I had wondered why it didn't seem like they had fought Voidbringers. Kaladin hangs a lampshade on it, but we don't get an answer as to whether or not the parshmen population will adopt the same forms as the Parshendi, if they're on the war path. 

I can see two options here:

1. They were inside and thus not directly affected by the storm, which means that they avoided transformation.

2. Odium is gathering them all up somewhere to get a functional army, and so every Voidbringer goes straight to the gathering place, without attacking anyone. Odiums last army was pretty much obliterated, so he needs a new one. Maybe this hypotetical army is what will assault Kholinar later in the book?

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Just now, Toaster Retribution said:

I can see two options here:

1. They were inside and thus not directly affected by the storm, which means that they avoided transformation.

2. Odium is gathering them all up somewhere to get a functional army, and so every Voidbringer goes straight to the gathering place, without attacking anyone. Odiums last army was pretty much obliterated, so he needs a new one. Maybe this hypotetical army is what will assault Kholinar later in the book?

This would make sense. Because ive been wondering "where the heck did the voidbringers go from edgedancer?" 

They kind of appeared and then disappeared without doing anything. That bothered me. 

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13 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

And Kaladin has both his hands firmly on the Idiot Ball right now. "I will protect those I hate, so long as it is just." As far as he knows, there are Voidbringers ready to destroy his hometown. And he goes and punches the man in charge of the city. He's putting his personal vendettas ahead of his oaths again, exactly what he supposedly overcame in WoR.

While I agree, Kaladin will always be riding that Idiot Ball, I don't think he's acting stupidly. There's a big difference between protecting an cremhole and decking said cremhole in the face. Especially an cremhole that would undoubtedly look down on Kaladin and disagree with everything he says. I'm not really saying that Kaladin was right to punch him, just that I don't think he's acting against his character development from WoR. Actually, I would think that the best way to deal with Roshone would be to put him in his place; unless he's had some serious character development, he's not going to work with Kaladin unless forced to. 

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I really hope that Dalinar's curse was specifically to forget shshsh and not "his wife." It would be quite sad if he gradually lost his ability to see Navani and I don't think divorce is possible.

 

I don't think that would go over well with the stormfather. All oaths are important, whether or not they were done in haste, or without full knowledge of the consequences. 

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Most of the things I wanted to say have already been brought up, but what did Hesina want to tel Kal? 

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Things have gotten better since you left,” Hesina promised Kaladin, squeezing his shoulder. “Roshone isn’t as bad as he once was. I think he feels guilty. We can rebuild, be a family again. And there’s something else you need to know about. We—

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We had to dedicate your spot to something else, Kal, but we can make space for you.

Something else? Pet axehound? 

 

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Not having read any comments:

AAAHHHHHHHHH

I started very dissapointed not to see Kaladin chapter, but soon changed my mind. Dalinar and Navani marriage by the Stormfather!!! Perfect and hilarious. Rosharan weddings must truly show whether they are true or just pomp thanks to helpful spren :).

Kaladin chapter! Depressed, as usual. But then he fights up and resurfaces. 

I absolutely love how everyone keeps tiptoing and behaving as they always did (threatening him, darkeyes-lightyes rank, parents treating him as their little Kal. All the while thinking, darn, they really don't realize their baby has grown up ^_^. But expect this to end soon. Fighting over how to keep him free of his writ of slavery with the highlord (uh, Sadeas, he is kind of busy, should be on the Beyond by now). While reminiscing, well Dalinar gave his Shardblade for him when he was a no-one. Pretty sure he is worth all the Shards in Alethkar by now. 

Roshone is a better man as he feels guilty? Huh. Count that -10 in expected predictions.

Best moment: tie between parents hugging him and punching Roshone

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4 minutes ago, PatronOfRot said:

I really hope that Dalinar's curse was specifically to forget shshsh and not "his wife." It would be quite sad if he gradually lost his ability to see Navani and I don't think divorce is possible.

 

I don't think that would go over well with the stormfather. All oaths are important, whether or not they were done in haste, or without full knowledge of the consequences. 

That is a brilliant yet terrifying thought.  And something I can see Brandon pulling.

This being Dalinar's 'book,' I had been assuming this whole time someone close to him was going to die (if he himself lives, anyway.)  But him 'losing' Navani in that fashion could be all the more heartbreaking.

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3 minutes ago, Ciridae said:

Most of the things I wanted to say have already been brought up, but what did Hesina want to tel Kal? 

Something else? Pet axehound? 

 

I think maybe she was going to mention Lirin's new apprentice Mara?

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Ooh, this is a fun one! What a way to snap out of it, This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules you, Roshone!

I took notes this time and it was interesting, pretty big info dump confirming things.

Official word of Spren and sub-spren... I think the theory of Shardplate being 'lesser spren' is now more likely. And again the reference to Bridge Four close to becoming Radiants, this is either a very un-subtle, or a big misdirect. Speaking of Shardplate, nice dowry we have there for Dalinar. I appreciate that Dalinar is acknowledging he has grabbed / usurped power and he doesn't feel to bad about it. I am curious about his use of the phrase 'fortress' in how he is building up Urithiru; this could be either as a capital or more precisely as a place from which to direct a battle. I loved the visualization of the Everstorm below Urithiru. And Kadash, you big tease you, what do you know?

Confirmation of the boon / curse from Dalinar, that's cool. 

I love the Chapter 5 header... is that the epigraph? I haven't paid as much attention to the as I have in the past. Looking into Shadesmar and beyond..

Baby born with no face, gah! That is not a pleasant image, thanks Brandon.

And that was a hell of a reunion, Kaladin was true to form with his doubt and depression, but he is starting to kick back out of it sooner. I was curious how long he was going to just sit their like a bump on a log. And I am very curious how he is going to explain himself, because to the populace he is just a slave branded dark-eyes that knocked out their Lighteyes lord. There isn't much, if any, Stormlight around so he can't get all glowy and show off yet. I guess Syl could make an appearance.

Now onto reading everyone else's thoughts.

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11 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I think it is either the new surgeon apprentice or a new sibling for Kaladin.

True could be either, but for some reason I expected something about parshmen in Hearthstone to be reavealed. Speaking of which..none of the Hearthstonians noticed evil parshmen, right? They just up and left, there was no fighting. So are they all gathering somehwere? 

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29 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I can see two options here:

1. They were inside and thus not directly affected by the storm, which means that they avoided transformation.

2. Odium is gathering them all up somewhere to get a functional army, and so every Voidbringer goes straight to the gathering place, without attacking anyone. Odiums last army was pretty much obliterated, so he needs a new one. Maybe this hypotetical army is what will assault Kholinar later in the book?

 

28 minutes ago, Flash said:

This would make sense. Because ive been wondering "where the heck did the voidbringers go from edgedancer?" 

They kind of appeared and then disappeared without doing anything. That bothered me. 

 

I see another, more mundane possibility, Roshone has fallen on hard times and can no longer afford any parshmen. It is mentioned that Roshone's clothes ate out of date before Kal decks him...

Edgedancer spoiler:

Spoiler

Also, while I like the theory that Odium is marshaling the newly turned voidbringers to him, I thought the newly turned parshmen in edgdancer didn't cause much mayhem because Nale dealt with them after Lift broke through his insanity...

 

Edited by Bcknight2
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