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[OB] Oathbringer 4-6


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2 hours ago, ScavellTane said:

I wouldn't put it pass him to have one tied to Kholinar considering how "corrupt" things got over there. The queen probably played some part in the 'Roshone Affair'.

i think many overestimated aesudan impact on the alethi kingdom mangement. yes she is totaly corrupt, jasnah want kill her for (probably) a good reason, in the WoR timeline she make kohlinar riot, but seven years ago? aesudan truly make a move to conctat the man the blackthorn himself want forgot for good? gavilar is in the shattering plane and roshone can make his move only because dalinar his on trip to the nightwatcher.
PS: a the time of roshone affair navani is the queen

Edited by Fulminato
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They definitely have a working sparnreed (now that @Pattern made it clear to me that they don't run on stormlight, are just paired). Lirin asked Hesina to write to Sadeas's house (I assume to the Pricedom's capital) with enough urgency that it sounded like they can reasonably expect an answer in short time. The already contacted the capital to ask for soldiers, and - three days after the storm - Lirin thought Ka may have been one of them. Plus, Hearthstone is a somewhat major hub in the region - surely, it's a small town, but also the focal point for many much smaller farming villages. They have a fourth dahn citylord. They probably had a spanreed even when Laral's father was citylord.

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Shallan's family had a spanreed and they were supposedly quite provincial. Unless that was only because of Shallan's father's involvement with the Ghostbloods, I wouldn't be surprised if most decent sized towns have one. Tyn had one and she was quite small-time.

They're a recent invention but they don't seem that expensive and the utility value is very high.

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1 hour ago, Elena said:

They definitely have a working sparnreed (now that @Pattern made it clear to me that they don't run on stormlight, are just paired). Lirin asked Hesina to write to Sadeas's house (I assume to the Pricedom's capital) with enough urgency that it sounded like they can reasonably expect an answer in short time. The already contacted the capital to ask for soldiers, and - three days after the storm - Lirin thought Ka may have been one of them. Plus, Hearthstone is a somewhat major hub in the region - surely, it's a small town, but also the focal point for many much smaller farming villages. They have a fourth dahn citylord. They probably had a spanreed even when Laral's father was citylord.

I don't think they have a spanreed, or at least they aren't trying to send this message via spanreed...

Here is the passage from Chapter 6:

Spoiler

“Hesina,” Lirin said, throwing his hands into the air.

“Yes?”

“Write a letter to the highprince’s administrators,” Lirin said. “Explain the situation; see if we can get a forbearance, or at least an explanation.” He looked to the soldier. “Will that satisfy your master? We can wait upon a higher authority, and in the meantime I can have my son back.”

“We’ll see,” the soldier said, folding his arms. “I’m not sure how much I like the idea of a shash-branded man running around my town.”

To me, this specifically reads like they are NOT expecting an immediate reply, otherwise the guard would not be concerned about a 'shash-branded man running around his town' in the meantime.

Additionally, Lirin asked Hesina to 'write a letter', remember, you do not write something and THEN send it on a spanreed, you write it WITH a spanreed and it gets copied in realtime by the person/spanreed on the other end.

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13 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

About Elhokar, since I like defending the guy (its kind of my thing to defend disliked characters in the community). Elhokar wants to be a good king because he has grown up around powerful men. His father unified Alethkar, his uncle is a conqueror, his mother and sister are both respected and commanding people, excelling within their chosen field. It is not strange that he cares about looking good and excelling in order to be praised. He is insecure, and surrounded by people who are, in one way or another, brilliant. He is the only one who isn´t, and yet he is supposed to be the guy in charge. In those circumstances, most people would be whiny and selfish. This is one of the major reasons as to why I think people go to hard on him. He is the average joe among a bunch of Supermen. 

Elhokar also cares for others. He does. He let the Darkeyes enter the arena. 

I've never considered that aspect of elokhar. I always condsidered the "god put me in this place, why am I screwing up so much?" side of him. Being the only average joe in his family is also something that must be weighting on him.

7 hours ago, scifan said:

I also think that we've seen Kaladin's entire POV in the first part.

I don't think brandon can afford to leave us with a cliffhanger like that for months. Not if he doesn't want am angry mob around his house.

2 hours ago, Fulminato said:

I find high improbable a rural alethi village like heartstone have a spanreed linked to a city placed so far, in a kingdom isn't vorin. if heartstone had a spanreed (there is a recent invention) is linked to the closest city (real city, not mere village) managed by a ligheyed family of high dahn (third/fourth) appointed by the highprince himself

I think if I were a centralized government I would invest big money to ensure that every fair-sized town has a spanreed connected to the capital.  earthstone is the seat of a landlord, as such it should have a way to convey messages to the capital.

4 hours ago, Pattern said:

Spanreeds are a kind of pairing (conjoining) fabrial, made from one gemstone (ruby) (with a captured spren in it) and then cut in half. If you move one, the other moves in the same direction. I guess cutting the gemstone also splits the spren in half?

The important thing to remember though is that spanreeds are paired. You can only write to the one other spanreed paired to yours. So probably Heathstone has one spanreed, connected to the hub in Tashikk (the city Tyn uses) or another city with similar information houses. From there the message can be relayed to the destination.

On the need of stormlight to use them: I am not sure, the required energy is given by the movement of the first spanreed (double as heavy as it would be without the pairing), so it might be that the trapped spren is enough to make it work.

But the ruby is always flashing with light when the spanreed is used, so it may be that the gem needs to be infused? In that case the weeping would really suck. Imagine if all mobile phones stopped working for a couple weeks...

2 hours ago, Pattern said:

Technical question: How do spanreeds compensate planetary rotation and the differential in velocities of different places? After all you can't use them on a (moving) ship...

different places on the planet will always remain in the same position compared to each other. A ship instead changes position all the time.

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I assumed that all fabrials need stormlight to function, including spanreeds. I read the spanreed coppermind article, and it doesn't say one way or the other. If there is no infused spheres in Hearthstone, they might be completely out of communication with the outside world, and Kaladin can't surgebind. It will probably take him weeks to travel to Kholinar by foot. Hopefully the highstorms start back up soon so he's not trapped there for long.

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55 minutes ago, Bcknight2 said:

I don't think they have a spanreed, or at least they aren't trying to send this message via spanreed...

Here is the passage from Chapter 6:

  Reveal hidden contents

“Hesina,” Lirin said, throwing his hands into the air.

“Yes?”

“Write a letter to the highprince’s administrators,” Lirin said. “Explain the situation; see if we can get a forbearance, or at least an explanation.” He looked to the soldier. “Will that satisfy your master? We can wait upon a higher authority, and in the meantime I can have my son back.”

“We’ll see,” the soldier said, folding his arms. “I’m not sure how much I like the idea of a shash-branded man running around my town.”

To me, this specifically reads like they are NOT expecting an immediate reply, otherwise the guard would not be concerned about a 'shash-branded man running around his town' in the meantime.

Additionally, Lirin asked Hesina to 'write a letter', remember, you do not write something and THEN send it on a spanreed, you write it WITH a spanreed and it gets copied in realtime by the person/spanreed on the other end.

:D I love that we get seven hubdred interpretations out of the same three lines. To *me* the hurried tone he used to ask Hesina to write means that even five minutes would make a difference  (and, again, how else did they send a message since the storm?) and the guardsman is just being a dick. I love overanalyzing stuff.

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18 minutes ago, Elena said:

:D I love that we get seven hubdred interpretations out of the same three lines. To *me* the hurried tone he used to ask Hesina to write means that even five minutes would make a difference  (and, again, how else did they send a message since the storm?) and the guardsman is just being a dick. I love overanalyzing stuff.

I imagine the 'hurried tone' is Lirin trying to keep Kal from being locked up... Or perhaps even summarily executed (the guard did mention hanging earlier in the chapter)

We don't really have any evidence that they did send a message since the storm.

all we have is this paragraph:

Spoiler

“What’s this?” Lirin asked, turning back to his work. “Did the highprince’s house send soldiers already? That was faster than expected. How many did you bring? We can certainly use…” Lirin hesitated, then looked back at Kaladin.

A competent and considerate Lord shouldn't need to be told that the towns/villages under their purview would need aid after the land was wracked by a storm traveling in the wrong direction in the middle of the weeping... The competent and considerate part is why Lirin is surprised when he thought aid had already been sent.

Edited by Bcknight2
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1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

I've never considered that aspect of elokhar. I always condsidered the "god put me in this place, why am I screwing up so much?" side of him. Being the only average joe in his family is also something that must be weighting on him.

I don't think brandon can afford to leave us with a cliffhanger like that for months. Not if he doesn't want am angry mob around his house.

I think if I were a centralized government I would invest big money to ensure that every fair-sized town has a spanreed connected to the capital.  earthstone is the seat of a landlord, as such it should have a way to convey messages to the capital.

But the ruby is always flashing with light when the spanreed is used, so it may be that the gem needs to be infused? In that case the weeping would really suck. Imagine if all mobile phones stopped working for a couple weeks...

different places on the planet will always remain in the same position compared to each other. A ship instead changes position all the time.

There's always a deeper secret :)

Seconding the mob.

But to be fair, you would probably make a better Highprince than Sadeas.

I always took spanreeds as a functional pairing, and once the device is set up it doesn't need stormlight infusion. It just works by Connection. Kind of similar in practise to how the gemstone of a dead shardblade is needed to establish a bond, but once that Connection is made it doesn't require Stormlight to summon and dismiss the blade, so the gemstone never runs out. Maybe a bad analogy because the system doesn't share the same mechanism, but it's still an occasion of using the magic system without continual input.

Seems like solid evidence that the focus of at least that type of fabrial is the planet itself.

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2 minutes ago, Darkness said:

I always took spanreeds as a functional pairing, and once the device is set up it doesn't need stormlight infusion. It just works by Connection. Kind of similar in practise to how the gemstone of a dead shardblade is needed to establish a bond, but once that Connection is made it doesn't require Stormlight to summon and dismiss the blade, so the gemstone never runs out. Maybe a bad analogy because the system doesn't share the same mechanism, but it's still an occasion of using the magic system without continual input.

Seems like solid evidence that the focus of at least that type of fabrial is the planet itself.

The counter I have to the idea that Fabrials don't need stormlight to function is this passage from WoR:

Spoiler

“We made a breakthrough in the design of new Shardblades the other day.”

“What, really?” he asked. “What happened? How soon will you have one ready?” She smiled, arm around his. “What?”

“Just seeing if you are still you,” she said. “Our breakthrough was realizing that the gemstones in the Blades—used to bond them—might not have originally been part of the weapons.”

He frowned. “That’s important?”

“Yes. If this is true, it means the Blades aren’t powered by the stones. Credit goes to Rushu, who asked why a Shardblade can be summoned and dismissed even if its gemstone has gone dun. We had no answers, and she spent the last few weeks in contact with Kharbranth, using one of those new information stations. She came up with a scrap from several decades after the Recreance which talks about men learning to summon and dismiss Blades by adding gemstones to them, an accident of ornamentation it seems.”

Since Rushu was surprised that the blade could still be summoned and dismissed when the gemstone had gone dun, that would suggest it was an anomaly, thus, their typical fabrials probably need to be infused to function.

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1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

I don't think brandon can afford to leave us with a cliffhanger like that for months. Not if he doesn't want am angry mob around his house.

Hey, he's written this book paced for reading as a novel. It's on you (meaning, "us"), not him, for reading these narrow bandwidth, time released dribs and drabs of preview passages over three months! If you can't deal with it, just wait until November 14th. (I didn't think so. Otherwise why are you here in this thread?)

I'm pretty sure Kal's father meant the request to "find out more from the highprince's administrators" (that would mean reaching Sadeas' warcamp on the Shattered Plains) as a delay tactic. Never imagining the type of response they're going to get if they actually do so!

As for the spanreed thing, as far as I recall, most of them have been used in a personal capacity rather than official. They pair on a one-to-one basis, so important people like Dalinar have multiple spanreeds to other important people. There isn't a central "Dalinar Station" you can just up and spanreed to arbitrarily, you have to either have been given a paired spanreed from Dalinar, or sent him one yourself that someone on his end monitors. I'd think even knowing who had spanreed connections to who else is considered sensitive or private information.

The spanreeds work by simultaneous transcription, so you can't use someone else's spanreed connection "securely" while passing a message along. Whoever controls the spanreed on the other end WILL read your message. Hence the use of code we saw Tyn using with the Ghostbloods, which was done via a "public" spanreed relay service.

Those were operators out of Tashikk who place chains of spanreeds with points at various important locations, including each of the Alethi warcamps and surely in Kholinar, but Hearthstone is not going to be important enough to have such a node, I think. So to do the inquiry via spanreed at all would involve sending a human messenger to the nearest Big City (maybe even all the way to Kholinar) to get one sent via relay to Amaram/Sadeas' camp, and then awaiting the reply.

Roshone may have a spanreed connection back to someone in Kholinar, but it'd be to someone specific with whom he wanted to maintain direct contact. I doubt he'd approve using it to request relaying a spanreed message of at least two more hops (each incurring cost or imposing on someone) just to ask, hey, what's the deal with this Kaladin guy and the slave brands? Especially after he got punched in the face.

Speaking of which, I sure hope Kaladin has some kind of official writ about "having Dalinar's blessing". I don't think that's been mentioned in the text, has it? We're just assuming he's got something like that? If not, he's gonna be cornered into summoning Syl as a Shardblade to avoid immediate repercussions from that punch.

Given how sensitive Kaladin is about the whole lighteyes/darkeyes thing, I'm sure he'd actually much prefer it if, in his role as a grubby-looking darkeyes with multiple brands on his head (without revealing himself as a Glassy-eyed Radiant Shardwielder), he could pull out something signed by the Dalinar, the Highprince of War or the king himself that proclaimed him equal in ranking to the Fourth Dahn.

Edited by robardin
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Based upon what I remember from Dalinar's visions, while the Knights Radiant protected all kingdoms while they didn't actually fall under the authority of any given ruler/kingdom. Although at this point, with the Everstorm being unleashed, it's very possible that the end result will be so devastating that the hope of survival will overrule individual kingdom sovereignty... but people rarely give up their authority willingly.

As an Alethkar high prince, Dalinar actually has a significant conflict of interest with his disparate positions of authority.  To keep the knights radiant as being perceived protector's, and not as a force subject to the crown of Alethkar, Dalinar will have to abdicate his position to Adolin.

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55 minutes ago, Bcknight2 said:

The counter I have to the idea that Fabrials don't need stormlight to function is this passage from WoR:

  Hide contents

“We made a breakthrough in the design of new Shardblades the other day.”

“What, really?” he asked. “What happened? How soon will you have one ready?” She smiled, arm around his. “What?”

“Just seeing if you are still you,” she said. “Our breakthrough was realizing that the gemstones in the Blades—used to bond them—might not have originally been part of the weapons.”

He frowned. “That’s important?”

“Yes. If this is true, it means the Blades aren’t powered by the stones. Credit goes to Rushu, who asked why a Shardblade can be summoned and dismissed even if its gemstone has gone dun. We had no answers, and she spent the last few weeks in contact with Kharbranth, using one of those new information stations. She came up with a scrap from several decades after the Recreance which talks about men learning to summon and dismiss Blades by adding gemstones to them, an accident of ornamentation it seems.”

Since Rushu was surprised that the blade could still be summoned and dismissed when the gemstone had gone dun, that would suggest it was an anomaly, thus, their typical fabrials probably need to be infused to function.

This.

Current Fabrial-Tech uses trapped spren and Stormlight. The Spren may make the gemstones retain Stormlight better as it gets tied up with the spren itself, but without Stormlight there would be no effect without feeding on the Spren itself. 

An effect from a fabrial requires an investiture source, just like surgebinding. While maintaining the bond between pairs is a constant effect, the moment you start transferring energy between the two places there is going to be a fuel cost. 

For something as small as a spanreed, it may be exceptionally minor. Stormlight in fabrial gems appears and behaves differently than plain Stormlight in a gem though and we've seen that. The first time Kaladin sees the heating fabrial he comments on how a gemstone that large should be blindingly bright, but he can look right into it and see the stormlight. 

If spanreeds don't require Stormlight, then their fuel source would have to be the Spren itself providing the surge access, which would mean at some point the spanreed is just going to break for no reason  and you'd need a new one. I think it more likely that periodically they need to be reinfused and they retain their light far longer than normal due to the Spren within the stone. 

Edited by Calderis
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2 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

different places on the planet will always remain in the same position compared to each other. A ship instead changes position all the time.

Spanreeds transmit the movement of writing, being accellerated in the process and gaining own velocities. The problem of the rotating planet I see is not the spanreeds keeping the same distance to each other but that the velocities differ greatly due to that rotation. Easiest situation is sitting on the equator with one spanreed and the second spanreed is also on the equator but on the other side of the world. Then both spanreeds move with opposite velocities to each other - viewed from an "inert frame of reference", say one resting with regard to the Roshar star. The spanreed on the receiving end would be catapulted away quite spectacularly.

Spanreeds must have a mechanism to compensate for accellerated frames of reference.

Thinking about it for a while and going a bit realmatic, perhaps it is enough on Roshar that the spanreeds are percieved/thought to be resting

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1 hour ago, robardin said:

Given how sensitive Kaladin is about the whole lighteyes/darkeyes thing, I'm sure he'd actually much prefer it if, in his role as a grubby-looking darkeyes with multiple brands on his head (without revealing himself as a Glassy-eyed Radiant Shardwielder), he could pull out something signed by the Dalinar, the Highprince of War or the king himself that proclaimed him equal in ranking to the Fourth Dahn.

I think you understimate how much growth he had at the end of WoR. He is not going to be thrilled at having blue eyes, but I don't think he will hide it or be ashamed of it for long. He did sort of agree to no more hiding and accepting what he is. And he clearly separated he Captain from the Radiant as two different lifes. Of course that may just be me wanting to read more maturity in him :P.

58 minutes ago, scifan said:

Based upon what I remember from Dalinar's visions, while the Knights Radiant protected all kingdoms while they didn't actually fall under the authority of any given ruler/kingdom. Although at this point, with the Everstorm being unleashed, it's very possible that the end result will be so devastating that the hope of survival will overrule individual kingdom sovereignty... but people rarely give up their authority willingly.

As an Alethkar high prince, Dalinar actually has a significant conflict of interest with his disparate positions of authority.  To keep the knights radiant as being perceived protector's, and not as a force subject to the crown of Alethkar, Dalinar will have to abdicate his position to Adolin.

I agree abdication is sounding better the more we go on. Technically Adolin is already in charge of the armies, and Dalinar would likely continue using his clout as having the Kholin princedom behind him in politics. Basically would be usurping some of Adolin's authority instead of Elhokar's. But Adolin will mind a lot less than Elhokar, and he has no wish to deal with the political side of highprince in any case. Or could just be one more reason to send Adolin to deal with Kholinar as highprince, while his father stays in Urithuru so the power usurping is not that obvious. 

For the other part...yes, before humanity united but stayed separate. BUT, before, the heralds arrived to unite humanity, AND the time between desolations was brief enough that uniting was not such a chore, as they remembered. This time unity will be a nightmare, as such ironically they may need to be forced to become 1  (or something along those lines) while before an alliance was enough. 

41 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Current Fabrial-Tech uses trapped spren and Stormlight. The Spren may make the gemstones retain Stormlight better as it gets tied up with the spren itself, but without Stormlight there would be no effect without feeding on the Spren itself.

I just had a vision of Roshar in 5000 years going on strikes for spren rights -_-.

Edited by WhiteLeeopard
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All this talk of spanreeds and getting Roshone to send a message to Kholinar or Sadeas's Princedom makes me think everyone has failed to consider one other possibility. What if Kaladin brought a spanreed with him to communicate with Dalinar directly? Though I'm not sure how they would verify it was Dalinar on the other side. And it may be unlikely since Kaladin can't write, so he would have to trust a stranger.

 

27 minutes ago, Pattern said:

Spanreeds transmit the movement of writing, being accellerated in the process and gaining own velocities. The problem of the rotating planet I see is not the spanreeds keeping the same distance to each other but that the velocities differ greatly due to that rotation. Easiest situation is sitting on the equator with one spanreed and the second spanreed is also on the equator but on the other side of the world. Then both spanreeds move with opposite velocities to each other - viewed from an "inert frame of reference", say one resting with regard to the Roshar star. The spanreed on the receiving end would be catapulted away quite spectacularly.

Spanreeds must have a mechanism to compensate for accellerated frames of reference.

Thinking about it for a while and going a bit realmatic, perhaps it is enough on Roshar that the spanreeds are percieved/thought to be resting

What if the spanreeds work through the Cognitive Realm and the Cognitive Realm doesn't move as the planet does? It would still make sense that you can't use them while moving on a ship since moving along Roshar has an equivalent motion through the CR, but the CR itself doesn't necessarily need to be attached to the motion of the planet in that sense. In other words, is the CR version of Roshar like a shadow planet that moves in the same way as the physical planet or is it merely a representation that is fixed in CR space? Does it rotate and orbit a CR sun? The brief visuals we've had of Shadesmar would suggest to me that it doesn't, because the clouds are always pointed at the sun which tells me that the sun is in a fixed spot in the sky. Though since our viewings so far have been brief, it could simply be that the clouds move to keep track of the sun. But I also wonder if Shadesmar is even spherical, since the sun always seems to be visible.

It may be a bit of a stretch since I just now thought it up, but worth considering I think.

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14 minutes ago, Ansalem said:

It may be a bit of a stretch since I just now thought it up, but worth considering I think.

I like the idea very much!

52 minutes ago, Calderis said:

If spanreeds don't require Stormlight, then their fuel source would have to be the Spren itself providing the surge access, which would mean at some point the spanreed is just going to break for no reason  and you'd need a new one. I think it more likely that periodically they need to be reinfused and they retain their light far longer than normal due to the Spren within the stone. 

The poor spren...we have seen what happens to spren when they sacrifice their investiture to surgebind...screaming spanreeds pop up in my mind.

Edited by Pattern
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7 minutes ago, Pattern said:

I like the idea very much!

@Ansalem I second that, it also makes sense realmatically.

The spanreeds when activated are viewed as a single item through their bond in the Spiritual Realm. 

Movement is then transmitted through the Cognitive Realm from the Spiritual bond, and manifests as Physical motion. 

It's a very concise explanation that counters the physical problems present in the device using mechanic's we know exist. I'm pretty sure you nailed it. 

Edited by Calderis
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1 hour ago, Ansalem said:

What if the spanreeds work through the Cognitive Realm and the Cognitive Realm doesn't move as the planet does? It would still make sense that you can't use them while moving on a ship since moving along Roshar has an equivalent motion through the CR, ...

I think this is a winning concept! And that the requirement that neither spanreed's holder be moving while they operate has something to do with drawing on Connection based magic in Cognitive Realm, similar to how the mechanics of AonDor on Sel have a spatial component due to the Shardic power being "crammed" into the CR instead of where it usually is in the Spiritual Realm.

 

Edited by robardin
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2 hours ago, robardin said:

Given how sensitive Kaladin is about the whole lighteyes/darkeyes thing, I'm sure he'd actually much prefer it if, in his role as a grubby-looking darkeyes with multiple brands on his head (without revealing himself as a Glassy-eyed Radiant Shardwielder), he could pull out something signed by the Dalinar, the Highprince of War or the king himself that proclaimed him equal in ranking to the Fourth Dahn.

 

58 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I think you understimate how much growth he had at the end of WoR. He is not going to be thrilled at having blue eyes, but I don't think he will hide it or be ashamed of it for long. He did sort of agree to no more hiding and accepting what he is. And he clearly separated he Captain from the Radiant as two different lifes. Of course that may just be me wanting to read more maturity in him :P.

I think you're misinterpreting what @robardin is saying here, I said something similar in a previous comment:

And I didn't mean that I thought Kal is ashamed of being who he is or that I think he's going to be determined to hide that he's a Radiant...

I meant that Kal is uncomfortable with the fact that he became a lighteyes when he became a Radiant, and he's uncomfortable with the implications of what that means for the current lighteyes' justification for rule... The last thing he wants to do is give the current lighteyes additional justification to say that their eye color indicates the favor of the Almighty.

So using his supposed 'rank' to take control of the situation would seem like a regression of character and a sign of reduced maturity, to me.

For proof that he's still at least somewhat uncomfortable I give you this from chapter 5:

Spoiler

It took a few hours without summoning his Shardblade. Once he did that, his eyes would bleed to a glassy light blue, almost glowing. Syl found the variation fascinating; Kaladin still hadn’t decided how he felt about it.

 

For proof that he doesn't want to further justify the lighteyes supposed superiority, I give you this from WoR:

Spoiler

“You’d be lighteyed,” Adolin whispered. “Even if it didn’t change your eye color, you’d count as one. Shardbearers are immediately of the fourth dahn. You could challenge Amaram. Your whole life would change.”

“I don’t want my life to change because I’ve become a lighteyes,” Kaladin said. “I want the lives of people like me . . . like I am now . . . to change. This gift is not for me, Adolin. I’m not trying to spite you or anyone else. I just don’t want a Shardblade.”

 

Edited by Bcknight2
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@Ansalem This WOB would definitely support that idea too: 

Quote

INTERVIEW: Feb 19th, 2016

DIRIGIBLE

"Is the cognitive realm flat or spherical?"

BRANDON SANDERSON

"The cognitive realm is this weird thing, where it's flat, but it's distorted."

QUESTION

"Yeah, 'cause I was going to say, if you make a globe flat..."

BRANDON SANDERSON

"You can walk from one planet to the next. So it's got really weird...the spatial reasoning doesn't work the same way."

So we know that the cognitive realm isn't spherical, so definitely wouldn't spin like a physical planet would.

Edited by Spicker
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@Spicker that's really interesting, I didn't know you could walk from one planet to the next. I sort of assumed that each planet had a kind of pocket universe representation and that the CR doesn't really have space as we normally think of it, but I hadn't considered that might mean all of them were directly connected. But it does make sense now that I think about it. If there's no space between the "planets" of the CR then they must all be touching. I had always thought of them more like bubbles pressed together, but one big bubble makes sense too. I suppose it's the difference between a separate CR for each planet vs one Cosmere-wide CR. I knew there was only one CR but hadn't put much thought into what that means spatially.

Nice to know I was right about it being flat though. :D Definitely lends credence to my idea.

Edited by Ansalem
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7 minutes ago, Ansalem said:

Nice to know I was right about it being flat though. :D Definitely lends credence to my idea.

There's a couple of WoBs on it. I'll post the other. Have you read Secret History? I won't get into it because spoilers but we know some things about the Cognitive Realm because of it. 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1182#53

Quote

QUESTION

So you’ve said, moving a spren off world from Roshar is difficult. What about physically, say the Ones Above visit them, and they fly away?

BRANDON SANDERSON

So one of the things you’ll have to be asking questions and theorizing on is what happens if you try to carry a spren around the planet. What happens to their Cognitive sense, right? So you’re on Roshar, right? So on the Physical Realm what would happen--because on Shadesmar, you have a flattened version. So there are questions for you to be theorizing implicit in that. And one of them is, what happens, you cross a threshold circling the globe, your spren, what happens to them? Right? This relates to the question you’re asking.

QUESTION

Wait wait, you have a three dimensional plain coexisting with a two dimensional plain?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Well, two dimensional is the wrong term, but basically.

We also know that distance in the Cognitive Realm is compressed or expanded due to Cognitive activity. 

Space does exist in the Cognitive, but it's basically an empty wasteland that is drastically reduced in distance compared to the actual physical distance. 

So say you come to the edge of Roshar, you'll reach an open black "sea" where no thin NG exists, and when you cross it you can reach another world's Cognitive Realm. There's a really good thread that this was all discussed a couple months back, I'll try to find it and edit it back in here. 

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12 minutes ago, Ansalem said:

@Spicker that's really interesting, I didn't know you could walk from one planet to the next.

I believe that's basically how most Worldhopping is meant to be done in the Cosmere, no? Traveling in the Cognitive Realm from and to the Physical Realm via Shardpool singularities?

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