Haelbarde Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) Because I've been looking at the various FTL theories floating around, I was looking at the Feruchemical abilities with space travel in mind. There are a lot of abilities which would be quite useful for an astronaut. I mean, a Feruchemist with a number of filled brassminds and cadmiumminds could potentially survive EVA without a space suit on, relying on warmth and oxygen from their metalminds. Reduced gravity results in bone density atrophying, which could be counterbalanced with a pewtermind. If there were complex machinery (ftl drives), a coppermind manual could come in handy. For zero-g navigation, ironminds and steelminds would be useful. Momentum is important in space, so being able to manipulate your weight on the fly would help speed up/slow down when moving through space. Being able to adjust the finese of your motor skills with steel could be useful as well. Health, obviously is useful for fires/fights etc. and being able to sustain yourself without food or water is plenty handy too. Being in space, particularly if alone, or with only a small crew, in cramped spaces could cause a great deal of tension. Electrumminds could certainly assist here. Because day and night have no meaning, being able to have an adaptable roster is very useful, and if there's an emergency, being able to have a full crew that is wide awake would be invaluable. Duralumin is an interesting one, and I'd like to theorise here. It talks about making connections in the spirit web. The wiki implies for more like between people, but I wonder if it could be used to create gravitational link between a person and the ship - thus achieving artificial gravity. And because I'm nice, have a table: Metal Ability Use Iron Weight Momentum Steel Physical Speed Movement/finetune motor Tin Senses Lookout/maintanence Pewter Strength Anti-zero-g-bone-atrophy Zinc Mental Speed Combat Brass Warmth Cold of space Copper Memories Instruction Manuals Bronze Wakefulness Constant roster/emergency Duralumin Spiritual Connection Artificial gravity? Aluminium Identity AI? Chromium Luck Always handy Nicrosil Investure Gold Health Accident Electrum Determination Anti-depressant Bendalloy Food/water storage Sustenance Cadmium Breath Vacuum. Thoughts? Edited February 14, 2014 by Haelbarde 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claincy Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Interesting thoughts there. A feruchemist would certainly have an advantage over an ordinary human. If they went for an EVA without a spaceship they would still need Feruchemical gold to sustain it for an extended period of time as even without the need to breath, other injuries would gradually accumulate. They could survive for a while even without Feruchemical gold though. (This is to the best of my knowledge and a little bit of research, so, still take it with a grain of salt). Duralumin is potentially interesting. However I do not think you could use it for any sort of anti-gravity. The following is speculation, partially based on information in the MAG. Firstly, I would guess that the ships spiritual aspect would not be string enough to have a particularly strong connection unless the feruchemist tapped a truly huge quantity of duralumin. Unless the ship was awakened Then it might work. That aside, I don't know that Feruchemical duralumin could have such a direct effect on the physical realm as would be necessary for artificial gravity. We really don't know what effect it could have. From what we know of duralumin tapping it makes others trust and like you more and vice versa, tapping huge amounts would make anyone nearby willing to lay down their life for you, and you willing to lay down your life for any of theirs. (MAG knowledge, insert grain of salt). So if your ship was awakened it would really like you? It might help you work better with it, sort of like co-operative flying where you work with the ship. I don't really know, just throwing ideas here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haelbarde Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Thanks for your reply.I was basing my thoughts re: duralumin on the assumption that gravity is a result of a spiritual bond between distinct/discrete pieces of matter - ie. the spiritual bond results in the physical force opposed to the other way round (or that at least it is 'iff' relationship ie. gravity => spiritual bond only if spiritual bond => gravity - Gravity causes a particular spiritual bond, and a particular spiritual bond causes gravity). If this is the case, forming/enhancing the spiritual bond should enhance the physical effect (gravity), and thus, give a sensible anchor point (ie, base of a ship [if its a conventional ship], or center if its a sphere or ring) gravity would be achieved. But I'm not entirely sure how well grounded the theory is. Is it theorised that gravity is somehow related to a bond between an object and a planet in the spirit web, or is something actually drawn from the books/WoB? The other thing I wondered about was about the capabilities of a Firesoul - could you survive near a sun by storing the warmth in the brassminds? Could you then release it at extreme temperatures to act as a portable power station? Re: EVA - I'm making the assumption that the main worries in a vacuum are the lack of oxygen, followed by the cold. For extended periods, you'd definitely need Feruchemical bendalloy, and Feruchemical gold, and if even longer, Feruchemical pewter if you ever wanted to go planetside again. Beyond the cold and the assphixiation, I know little else of the dangers of the vacuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I think, actually, that the best astronauts would be twinborns in specialised spacesuits. Allomantic iron Feruchemical iron, for example (used without compounding) would basically allow extremely precise spacewalk manuvers. Cadmium compounders would need only insulation and a supply of metal, if they had a team of lurchers moving them - depending on how it works, they could even be the air supply for a station. Allomantic iron and Feruchemical cadmium would have the benefits of both, though with a reduced airless time. Feruchemical brass might actually be better for absorbing heat to use as power from the sun, though Allomantic pewter could be handy to nullify the radiation. Compounded Feruchemical tin eyesight would allow for visual communication with the ground. A crew of bendalloy ferrings, with a single Cadmium compounder, could potentially survive for years assuming that the Bendalloyers had had several feasts of truly epic proportions before leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalbusker Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I think Feruchemical iron wouldn't be as useful in zero-g as you might think. If momentum were conserved with Feruchemical weight manipulation, then somebody running towards a door and tapping weight just before they hit it would slow down dramatically and gain no net benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Fascinating idea and topic! Upvote! for my money, if I'm a Cosmere astronaut, I'd want to at least have access to Allomantic steel, just in case I lost my tether to the ship when I was EVA! it would also make moving within the ship much easier. re: Firesoul Ferring... I'm not sure that you'd have enough brass to keep up with the pace of heat you'd have to be absorbing to survive anywhere near a star. We know that each metalmind has a maximum storage and a maximum transfer rate, so I'm not sure you'd have the "bandwidth" or storage capacity to handle a near star event. I think to do something like power generation there would need to be some sort of heat compounding going on... I really like the concept of Feruchemical duralumin being able to replicate artificial gravity, especially in conjunction with Feruchemical iron and the ability increase/decrease mass. I feel like this is something that we'll probably see in some way, though probably not how we're talking about right now. I would guess that even if it does work like that, it will be personal only so your whole crew would need to be full Feruchemists or Connectors to benefit. Probably what we will see is a play on the Feruchemical duralumin thing tied to the magics/technologies of Southern Scadrial that will allow for Artificial Gravity. I love this topic though! Feruchemists would be much better in general than Allomancers at things like EVA, etc, but I'm betting that Starship operations/flight will be built around Allomantic powers since they are externall focused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeBrick Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I have to disagree with the Op's notion that Brassminds and Cadmiumminds alone could protect you from space exposure. The real damage comes from the solar radiation and lack of pressure. Your saliva and sweat will boil, bubbles of nitrogen will fill your blood, your lungs collapse (or rupture if you hold your breath), your circulation fails, and the side of you facing the sun is fried by intense solar radiation. The only thing that could survive would be a Gold Compounder with a lot of metal. I'm also very skeptical of the artificial gravity idea: the Connections they're talking about are specifically bonds of friendship. Could certainly help with keeping the crew together emotionally, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalbusker Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I have to disagree with the Op's notion that Brassminds and Cadmiumminds alone could protect you from space exposure. The real damage comes from the solar radiation and lack of pressure.Agreed, but they could certainly get away with a much lighter spacesuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) I have to disagree with the Op's notion that Brassminds and Cadmiumminds alone could protect you from space exposure. The real damage comes from the solar radiation and lack of pressure. Your saliva and sweat will boil, bubbles of nitrogen will fill your blood, your lungs collapse (or rupture if you hold your breath), your circulation fails, and the side of you facing the sun is fried by intense solar radiation. The only thing that could survive would be a Gold Compounder with a lot of metal. I'm also very skeptical of the artificial gravity idea: the Connections they're talking about are specifically bonds of friendship. Could certainly help with keeping the crew together emotionally, though. It really depends on how "real" space is in the Cosmere. Radiation may not be an issue for them The theory presented here was a Spiritual connection between the floor and a person "acting" like gravity. Possibly in the Cosmere, that is all that gravity will end up actually being in the underlying structure... Maybe a Basic Lashing is just shifting the Spiritual connection of a person to a different surface? For Feruchemical duralumin where does it nail down that it is friendship bonds only? Remember, all the Ars Arcanum are presented from in-world character POV. They may not have ever experimented with the kind of connections we're talking about here. It may also not work, but it is an interesting idea! Edited February 14, 2014 by Green Hoodie Mistborn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Or a propulsion mechanism where the air systems would be. And I don't mean literally going into a star, I was thinking more like a full-body tanning bed facing the sun with the most harmful radiation filtered out, or even a lattice of black metal heat-absorbers that, isolated in a vacuum, would get extremely hot. The Feruchemical brass ferring could just touch it and store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haelbarde Posted February 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 I have to disagree with the Op's notion that Brassminds and Cadmiumminds alone could protect you from space exposure. The real damage comes from the solar radiation and lack of pressure. Your saliva and sweat will boil, bubbles of nitrogen will fill your blood, your lungs collapse (or rupture if you hold your breath), your circulation fails, and the side of you facing the sun is fried by intense solar radiation. The only thing that could survive would be a Gold Compounder with a lot of metal. I'm also very skeptical of the artificial gravity idea: the Connections they're talking about are specifically bonds of friendship. Could certainly help with keeping the crew together emotionally, though. regarding lungs: who needs them with Feruchemical cadmium, but yes, EVA without a space suit would still be problematic. They'd be able to survive a bit longer though, which could be useful, but not indefinietly But yay! Discussion happened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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