Steeldancer

[OB] Oathbringer Chapter 1-3

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And ADOLIN :P Second chapter of the book and I am getting Adolin! I will never tire from saying it :ph34r: So one of my theories seem to materialize itself: Adolin is over-working himself, throwing himself into work, any work so long as he never gets the time to think.

OK, I really have to go to work now :ph34r: I'll come back later today, but I really smiled when everyone seem to agree it was a good thing Sadeas is dead. And Teft. Brilliant. This was a good scene and Dalinar doesn't sound nearly as angry as I thought he would.

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I'm going to take this as confirmation that Shardplate is made of Stormlight. Normal live Shardplate is silvery, as is stormlight. Voidlight is black, and this dark Shardplate is black. 

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Seems like squires lose their powers if the Radiant is not nearby.

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Hmmmm red eyed champion...

So listener or voidbonded human? Or is it metaphorical? Everything very exciting, I was worried the Stormfather would stop sending visions for some reason.

Also have we ever seen an orange-eyed lighteye before?

Excited for Serbarial's new job. Aladar in charge of any potential trial of Sadeas' murder hmm hmm

Edited by Ciridae
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I'm going full typo hunt at the moment:

 

This read really odd:

 

"Dalinar knelt, pulling the jacket back from Sadeas’s face. “That blood is dried. He’s been lying here for some time.”

“We’ve been looking for him,” said the officer in green. “Looking for him? You lost your highprince?”

“The tunnels are confusing!” the man said. “They don’t go natural directions. We got turned about and…”"

 

It feels like something is missing in the middle.  I had to read it a few times, because at first glance it seemed like the Green Sadeas officer was yelling at himself for losing Sadeas...

 

There was another instance in chapter 2 where officer was spelled off cer...

 

"Either way, Dalinar’s lack of offi ers explained the room’s other occupants: Highprince Sebarial and his mistress, Palona. Likable or not, Sebarial was one of the two living"

 

Never mind all the interesting info!

 

A golden light, brilliant yet terrible. Standing before it, a dark figure in black Shardplate. The figure had nine shadows, each spreading out in a different direction, and its eyes glowed a brilliant red.

 

This is the first time I can think of where we see Odium referenced with a light colour...

Edited by Stark
To add examples
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INTERESTING!

Yes Renarin, go find out what you can do so you can be useful in this book! From what we have seen of his abilities in the past it seems they have something to do with seeing the future, as shown by the words he wrote in accompany with the countdown in WoR.

Adolin seems to be Channeling his panic at the moment, part of me wanted one of the bridgemen to spot Oathbringer in the gardens where Adolin threw it, would be great to see Teft or Sigzil bond it as a precaution, can never have too many Shardbarers about.

So squire lose their abilities when not with their Radiant? Interesting, it suggests that they very well might be able to surge bind as well, as the restriction seems kind of harsh otherwise.

Dalinar can experience visions whenever he wants now? Well then he has a great advisor in there by the name of Nohadon, as long as he can convince the man that he is from the future and needs his help than perhaps he could give Dalinar some advice from a first hand perspective, as someone who actually faced a desolation, though I don't know if that would work the visions being recordings and all, he may be like an AI program with only set responses for set situations, like a magical SIRI.

 Nothing from Kaladin or Shallan yet, though Shallan's presence in these scenes shows that the revelation at the end of WoR wasn't completely crippling for her, and we have the reading chapter of Kaladin that I am very much looking forward to the end of.

All in all was worth staying awake till 11pm to read, I'm going to hold off on the flashbacks until release, just to give listening to the audio of part one some meaning then.

 

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A couple of interesting worldbuildung bits. Very intrigued about the Shin invasions. The Oathgate in Azimir throws a wrench into some of my prior thoughts, since I thought Sesemelax Dar should have had it.

But the big thing is obviously Odium's Champion. Although I'm not sure that's actually who it is. It seems more like Odium himself, what with the nine Unmade being his shadows. (Nice to have that number confirmed.)

This vision seems so much less literal than the rest. Others deal with historical events, but this is about the future. I don't think Honor is showing him specific events that may (or will) happen; he has crafted that vision as a metaphor. An apocalypse, in the original sense of the word. (The greek means 'from Calypso,' and originally referred to symbolic visions. Our modern use is derived from the Apocalypse of John, otherwise known as the Biblical book of Revelations, and the term has become associated with the subject of that text, rather than the style.) The figure with nine shadows feels like something out of the books of Daniel or Revelation, like a beast with seven heads and ten horns. So, I don't take the vision as literally saying a figure in black Shardplate will have nine shadows and destroy an empty, already-ruined Kholinar, but that Odium and his Unmade seek the total destruction of Roshar.

I think it's noteworthy that Dalinar neither hears the word 'champion' from the Stormfather, nor says it to him. I think that Dalinar has leapt to an incorrect conclusion; the vision shows Odium winning, not the last-ditch gamble that the earlier admonitions suggest. I think the figure is just a metaphor for Rayse.

The golden light that the Stormfather didn't see makes me think of the mystery vision from the end of the last book. I hope that an explanation will be offered later in this book.

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28 minutes ago, Flash said:

I'm going to take this as confirmation that Shardplate is made of Stormlight. Normal live Shardplate is silvery, as is stormlight. Voidlight is black, and this dark Shardplate is black. 

I don't think so. It is my belief that Shardplate is made up of the 'lesser' cousins to the Bonded Spren.

For Kaladin this will be Windspren; for Shallan, Creationspren; For Dalinar, this is just another reason why he will be a Radiant without Shards - the Stormfather refused to be a Blade, and he has no lesser cousins to be Dalinar's Plate.

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37 minutes ago, Stark said:

I'm going full typo hunt at the moment:

 

This read really odd:

 

"Dalinar knelt, pulling the jacket back from Sadeas’s face. “That blood is dried. He’s been lying here for some time.”

“We’ve been looking for him,” said the officer in green. “Looking for him? You lost your highprince?”

“The tunnels are confusing!” the man said. “They don’t go natural directions. We got turned about and…”"

 

It feels like something is missing in the middle.  I had to read it a few times, because at first glance it seemed like the Green Sadeas officer was yelling at himself for losing Sadeas...

 

There was another instance in chapter 2 where officer was spelled off cer...

 

"Either way, Dalinar’s lack of offi ers explained the room’s other occupants: Highprince Sebarial and his mistress, Palona. Likable or not, Sebarial was one of the two living"

 

Never mind all the interesting info!

Yeah I was just trying to find a place to post those too haha. The first isn't so much a typo as an inconvenient set of phrases. There probably should be a line break in there to show that Dalinar is responding, but I don't think it's mandatory by the 'rules'.

Other thoughts:

I personally would put that as Plate-from-Light confirmation, though it is somewhat suspicious. Still could be something completely different. About the Champion, it seems like Dalinar could have been recognizing the eyes for a few reasons. Off the top of my head: 1. It was Eshonai. 2. It was Adolin. 3. He just recognized the Thrill, but not the person

Odium's color seems to be golden, of all things. Golden, brilliant, and terrible. If this is actually the case, Brandon is destroying all sorts of tropes haha.

The number is 9, confirmed.

Going to be keeping an eye on Adolin's wrist.

I'm now expecting a few awesome Shallan/Renarin practising viewpoints.

I guess we now know where the name 'blackthorn' came from :D

So gooooood!

 

Edited by Darkness
I'm sad we didn't get to see the Lopen's healing more :(
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Since when does Dalinar have the authority to appoint a Highprince of Information?

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23 minutes ago, Stark said:

"A golden light, brilliant yet terrible. Standing before it, a dark figure in black Shardplate. The figure had nine shadows, each spreading out in a different direction, and its eyes glowed a brilliant red."

 

This is the first time I can think of where we see Odium referenced with a light colour...

The gold surprised me as well. We've all been focusing on the red eyes, thinking that makes Rayse's color red. 

Now the reference to (Alloy of Law spoilers)

Spoiler

"Men of red and gold" starts to make a more sense. I will take it as further evidence that Odium (gold) and "Trell" (red) are working together, though there are other interpretations.

 

7 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

Very intrigued about the Shin invasions.

Likewise! I'm trying to decide whether the order the events are mentioned indicates chronology. How long ago was this invasion? 

Quote

No man had ever united the entire continent— not during the Shin invasions, not during the height of the Hierocracy, not during the Sunmaker’s conquest.

 

@Stark, yes, that first typo is just a missing line break.

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17 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

A couple of interesting worldbuildung bits. Very intrigued about the Shin invasions. The Oathgate in Azimir throws a wrench into some of my prior thoughts, since I thought Sesemelax Dar should have had it.

But the big thing is obviously Odium's Champion. Although I'm not sure that's actually who it is. It seems more like Odium himself, what with the nine Unmade being his shadows. (Nice to have that number confirmed.)

This vision seems so much less literal than the rest. Others deal with historical events, but this is about the future. I don't think Honor is showing him specific events that may (or will) happen; he has crafted that vision as a metaphor. An apocalypse, in the original sense of the word. (The greek means 'from Calypso,' and originally referred to symbolic visions. Our modern use is derived from the Apocalypse of John, otherwise known as the Biblical book of Revelations, and the term has become associated with the subject of that text, rather than the style.) The figure with nine shadows feels like something out of the books of Daniel or Revelation, like a beast with seven heads and ten horns. So, I don't take the vision as literally saying a figure in black Shardplate will have nine shadows and destroy an empty, already-ruined Kholinar, but that Odium and his Unmade seek the total destruction of Roshar.

I think it's noteworthy that Dalinar neither hears the word 'champion' from the Stormfather, nor says it to him. I think that Dalinar has leapt to an incorrect conclusion; the vision shows Odium winning, not the last-ditch gamble that the earlier admonitions suggest. I think the figure is just a metaphor for Rayse.

The golden light that the Stormfather didn't see makes me think of the mystery vision from the end of the last book. I hope that an explanation will be offered later in this book.

An explanation was given right in the text. I think that section needs a careful reread. "A golden light, brilliant yet terrible. Standing before it, a dark figure in black Shardplate. The figure had nine shadows, each spreading out in a different direction, and its eyes glowed a brilliant red."

The figure in Shardplate is standing before the golden light, which I took to be Odium's Champion standing before Odium.

Then the Stormfather straight up answers Dalinar about the shadows and light:

“What was that light I saw?” he whispered.

I saw no light, the Stormfather said.

“It was brilliant and golden, but terrible,” Dalinar whispered. “It bathed everything in its heat.”

Odium, the Stormfather rumbled. The enemy.

The god who had killed the Almighty. The force behind the Desolations.

“Nine shadows,” Dalinar whispered, trembling.

Nine shadows? The Unmade. His minions, ancient spren."

7 minutes ago, asterion137 said:

Since when does Dalinar have the authority to appoint a Highprince of Information?

I guess since Elhokar was noted as still recovering? That part didn't feel fleshed out enough for me either tbh

Edited by Darkness
Pagerunner, I'm not sure if you're implying that the golden light from the last book could also have been Odium's aura. If you are, I have to disagree based on how Dalinar felt warmed and comforted last time.
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6 minutes ago, asterion137 said:

Since when does Dalinar have the authority to appoint a Highprince of Information?

I took it as Dalinar basically being the active ruler, since Elhokar is still recovering. Under normal circumstances, I don't think he would, but such authority has been delegated while the king is down.

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Wow. Just wow. So much from two chapters. I say two because the flashback we've had for some time (except the last few paragraphs. So I'll make my initial comments on the first two before I fall asleep (sorry if others have posted the same stuff)

Quote

A golden light, brilliant yet terrible. Standing before it, a dark figure in black Shardplate. The figure had nine shadows, each spreading out in a different direction, and its eyes glowed a brilliant red...

I saw no light, the Stormfather said.

“It was brilliant and golden, but terrible,” Dalinar whispered. “It bathed everything in its heat.”

Odium, the Stormfather rumbled. The enemy.

The Champion is fascinating but so is Odium's light being gold. And the champions eyes being red. Makes me think of Miles talking about red and gold...

Quote

If he wanted to travel to Vedenar, Thaylen City, Azimir, or any of the other locations, they’d first need to get one of their Radiants to the city and unlock the device.

Azimir!

Quote

The walls were twisted with lines—natural strata of alternating earthy colors, like those made by crem drying in layers. 

 Maybe irrelevant but the same strata pattern that Tien loved. In a place Szeth refers to have stones hallowed enough to walk on.

Quote

Kaladin’s men had begun manifesting powers as Windrunners— though apparently they were merely “squires.” Navani said it was a type of apprentice Radiant that had once been common: men and women whose abilities were tied to their master, a full Radiant.

The men of Bridge Four had not bonded their own spren, and—though they had started manifesting powers—had lost their abilities when Kaladin had flown to Alethkar to warn his family of the Everstorm.

Very interesting. Squires are proximity tied to the radiant. Means the bond between them is not spiritual?

Quote

Songs tell of how the losses compounded upon one another, causing us to slide farther each time, until the Heralds left a people with swords and fabrials and returned to find them wielding sticks and stone axes

This fascinates me. They were progressively losing the Destinations! They must have started off with humanity being more advanced and reverted to cavemen. The heralds originally had an easier job. And if it was down sliding like that, maybe they even made the right choice...

And of course, finally confirmation of 9 Unmade :)

Time to fall asleep and see what has been said in the morning! And what I've hastily and wrongly put :D

OATHBRINGEEEER!!!!!!!!!!!!

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4 minutes ago, Darkness said:

An explanation was given right in the text. I think that section needs a careful reread. "A golden light, brilliant yet terrible. Standing before it, a dark figure in black Shardplate. The figure had nine shadows, each spreading out in a different direction, and its eyes glowed a brilliant red."

The figure in Shardplate is standing before the golden light, which I took to be Odium's Champion standing before Odium.

Then the Stormfather straight up answers Dalinar about the shadows and light:

“What was that light I saw?” he whispered.

I saw no light, the Stormfather said.

“It was brilliant and golden, but terrible,” Dalinar whispered. “It bathed everything in its heat.”

Odium, the Stormfather rumbled. The enemy.

The god who had killed the Almighty. The force behind the Desolations.

“Nine shadows,” Dalinar whispered, trembling.

Nine shadows? The Unmade. His minions, ancient spren."

The Stormfather did not see the figure in black Plate, and Dalinar does not mention him. That's part of why I think the explanation is lacking.

Contrast with Honor's speech in the vision. This precedes the destruction:

Quote

"Most of what I show you are the scenes I have seen directly," the figure said. "But some, such as this one, are born out of my fears. If I fear it, then you should too."

And it closes with this:

Quote

"I wish I could do more," repeated the figure in gold. "You might be able to get him to choose a champion. He is bound by some rules. All of us are. A champion could work well for you, but it is not certain. And... without the Dawnshards... Well, I have done what I can. It is a terrible thing to leave you alone."

Odium's champion isn't the bringer of the True Desolation. Odium's champion is Honor's hope, not his fear. I find it very incongruous for the destruction to be wrought by the champion while Honor is saying getting Odium to choose a champion is their best hope.

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16 minutes ago, asterion137 said:

Since when does Dalinar have the authority to appoint a Highprince of Information?

He always had that autority, as nobody would have ever dared to contradict the blackthorn. He was just trying to play nice before.

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Was initially dissapointed I didn't get to read about Kaladin reaching home. But once I got over it, the chapters were really good. Random thoughts next.

Palona went up 10 points in my book. Before I was mildly fond of her, now, go girl.

Interesting about the champion, will reread that later.

Can't believe Dalinar said they needed Sadeas, open your eyes! He was never going to be anything other than a problem. Nice to see everyone was happy he was dead.

Very surprised squires lose their abilities with distance. Guess will have to ask how much distance

Nearly confirmed that Kholinar oathgate will be open by end of book.

Had seen the flashback before, but still...Dalinar was a monster in his youth. Cleary Sadeas was just angry to have lost his monster of a friend. Only good thing he did, is he kept his word to not sack town. Can't believe they were taking for slaves and raping the people of the taken towns, thats how they unified mighty Alethkar? Great union...

Will post later when my thoughts are more settled.

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6 minutes ago, Extesian said:

Very interesting. Squires are proximity tied to the radiant. Means the bond between them is not spiritual?

IIRC Spren bonds also degrades with distance, seems like squire bond behave similar.

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15 minutes ago, dendrophobe said:

I took it as Dalinar basically being the active ruler, since Elhokar is still recovering. Under normal circumstances, I don't think he would, but such authority has been delegated while the king is down.

Dalinar is the Highprince of War, and they are most definitely at war. That probably comes with a host of granted powers / authorities.

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Any theories on who the writer of Oathbringer is (yes, I know that Brandon Sanderson wrote it, but you know what I mean)? Do you think it's someone we know already, like Dalinar? Or is it a book from the ancient past, from the time of the Radiants? 

I was a little disappointed that since chapter 3 is a flashback chapter, we only got two epigraphs. 

Quote

I’m certain some will feel threatened by this record. Some few may feel liberated. Most will simply feel that it should not exist.

It sounds like this is describing something paradigm shifting, a discovery that challenges the beliefs of the world. Hmm.... Oathbringer, the bringer of oaths. This is definitely referring to the Words of the Radiants, the person who brings the new Oaths. Why would thoughts by the person who brings Oaths threaten the status quo? 

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Read the first two chapters, will have to catch the third later today.

Any odds that Odium was able to "capture" Sadeas's Cognitive Shadow after death, and that's his champion? 

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zebobes, my initial thought on that was it could be soon after the Hierocracy, as such it went against a lot of Vorin ideas. But your idea is as good as any :P 

Dalinar appointing highprinces...I think he is just over tiptoing around Elhokar sensibilities. Finally. Roshar's survival is more important than the chain of command, specially when so many in command are morons. In cases of complete destruction, men will be more likely to listen to the one with the best chance of leading them out of the mess alive, than to the one that has the right blood or title. Those are niceties for peace times, even if they are not fully ignored, they would probably be a lot less relevant.

Oh, and Dalinar stating Sunmaker was his direct ancestor, impressive, don't remember this from before. Shin invasions were also thought provoking, ties in to some Shin conquest theory threads from recently.

Edited by WhiteLeeopard
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@Andy92 that is an interesting thought but i don't think we have any evidence of shards being able to "capture" cognitive shadows, I think until that abillity is spelled out we shouldn't base theories on it.

I personally am wondering if eshonai's sister venli is odiums champion, and he was the voice that the listeners heard that lead them to szeth.

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