Maybe this is a dumb question, but where are all the Shardblades?

[king of nowhere]

1 hour ago, Bort said:

There is a WoB that tells us that the gems in Shardplate weren't there originally, but were added later, after the Recreance. So, Plate cannot just disintegrate if it isn't kept charged with Stormlight. You may have been thinking about trying to grow Plate from a fragment of a broken piece? This is mentioned a few times in WoR, how the Plate would disintegrate if another piece of it was given more Stormlight than the piece you are trying to grow.

 

Edit: WoB Link

plate that is not infused don't enhances strength, and it is too heavy to move in. How did they used plate without gemstones?

[Bort]

3 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

plate that is not infused don't enhances strength, and it is too heavy to move in. How did they used plate without gemstones?

My guess is that's because the Spren who are part of it are dead. As for how they used it, I would guess with difficulty.

Or even, maybe carrying bags of spheres charged with Stormlight, and it is only after the Blades have started being bonded, that someone thinks to do the same with Plate.

[Killik]

1 hour ago, Bort said:

My guess is that's because the Spren who are part of it are dead. As for how they used it, I would guess with difficulty.

Or even, maybe carrying bags of spheres charged with Stormlight, and it is only after the Blades have started being bonded, that someone thinks to do the same with Plate.

I think they probably just didn't use it until they put gems in.  I would think that adding gems to plate to make it work would come before adding some kind of Fabrial to the Blade to allow bonding and summoning.

We see a couple times where the gemstones in Plate runs out and they "lock-up".  Its not that it is difficult to move, its practically impossible and completely impractical for battle.  

Edited August 29, 2017 by Killik

[Calderis]

17 minutes ago, Killik said:

I think they probably just didn't use it until they put gems in.  I would think that adding gems to plate to make it work would come before adding some kind of Fabrial to the Blade to allow bonding and summoning.

I'm fairly certain the blades came first. 

Gems weren't added to the blades because of fabrials. They were added purely as ornamentation and the ability to bond was a happy accident. 

Once that was discovered, added gems to the plate would have been a natural step. 

[The One Who Connects]

On 8/29/2017 at 10:40 AM, king of nowhere said:

plate that is not infused don't enhances strength, and it is too heavy to move in. How did they used plate without gemstones?

We know that humanity added gems to them, which means that the KR didn't do that. Ergo, something that makes KR different from normal mortals is the key here.

• Perhaps a KR infused with Stormlight isn't affected by the weight. It makes Kaladin a lot faster and stronger than normal.
• Perhaps Infused Stormlight has some type of synergy with Shardplate. Dalinar's Plate looked like it glowed when he battle the Chasmfiend after all.
  • Specifying "infused" would explain the change too. Stormlight Infused in a KR could power Plate, and Stormlight infused in Gemstones is the closest substitute.

[TheMediocreMind]

I think that Helarand's shards are good support for the theory of secret society caches. IIRC that blade was unknown until Kaladin won it from Helarand. I think that secret blade stashes are a lot more common than anyone lets on to. (obviously enough)

[Ralph Elorim]

The majority of the shards are in the possession of the Herdazians under the rule of King The Lopen, waiting to conquer Roshar.

[thejopen27]

On 10/30/2017 at 3:08 AM, TheMediocreMind said:

I think that Helarand's shards are good support for the theory of secret society caches. IIRC that blade was unknown until Kaladin won it from Helarand. I think that secret blade stashes are a lot more common than anyone lets on to. (obviously enough)

Helaran received full shards from the "Skybreakers," Lys has a secret unaccounted for shardblade, Taravangian has at least one that he could give to Graves, but since he is miles away and un-activated in Alethkar, he probably has others. Hoid was able to easily find a random blade when he needed one to make sure no one asked questions about what happened to the blade Taln showed up to the gates with. I would guess that the Skybreakers are hiding some, the Shin have a bunch, and that the Vorin Church hid a bunch of them.

[Yata]

4 hours ago, thejopen27 said:

Helaran received full shards from the "Skybreakers,"

Actually we don't know where he took the Shards from, we know only he tried to find the Skybreaker, but we don't know if he actually found them and they are the Shards' source.

4 hours ago, thejopen27 said:

I would guess that the Skybreakers are hiding some, the Shin have a bunch, and that the Vorin Church hid a bunch of them.

I don't think the Vorin Church hid them, or at least if the Church did it...the modern Church doesn't know it. The Sons of Honor have not a bunket filled with Shards as the effort Amaram putted to acquire a single Blade, to the point to kill his faithful men to obtain those Shards.

[Knghtstlker]

I don't know if it was mentioned. But I tend to think that the KR Radiate Stormlight, the Plate acts as a Buffer zone. Absorbing the Light that the KR Radiated. Thus, powering the plate. Which is why they require gemstones to work now.

Many times it's mentioned that Shardplate is basically unchinked Just tiny little plates to interlock on the larger ones. There is no "Weak spot", The KR didn't need Gemstones to power the stormlight, the Armor itself is a Ziplock Baggy to "Seal in the Flavor". It just happens to absorb all stormlight leaking out of the KR, As stated in Adolin's Disadvantaged fight. Kaladin not only ran out of stormlight, but healed the Shardplate. KR are the gemstones.

[Bort]

On 8/29/2017 at 3:41 PM, Killik said:

Yes I was thinking of attempting to grow new Plate when a piece was broken/lost.  But I was under the impression that without the influence of the KR and their investiture, the plate couldn't function at all, I supposed I simply extended the concept of the plate not functioning to disintegrating without use or new investiture from the KR.  Granted this does not mean that any plate that hasn't been used since the Recreance would disintegrate but plate that has survived but has no gemstones to function would be significantly less helpful than the missing blades.

I think of the Stormlight powering Plate as 'feeding' the Spren that make up the Plate. This is why, when a piece breaks, feeding it extra stormlight will allow it to heal faster. I also think the Shardplate is alive, in a sense, but doesn't require bonding like the Blade does, which is why Kaladin was able to use the helmet as a weapon during the duel, and why it can still mold itself to the contours of the wearer.

The impression I got from Brandon hen I asked him about this was that the gems in the Plate came after the gems in the Blades, although I wouldn't want to claim that this had been confirmed.

[thejopen27]

15 hours ago, Yata said:

Actually we don't know where he took the Shards from, we know only he tried to find the Skybreaker, but we don't know if he actually found them and they are the Shards' source.

I don't think the Vorin Church hid them, or at least if the Church did it...the modern Church doesn't know it. The Sons of Honor have not a bunket filled with Shards as the effort Amaram putted to acquire a single Blade, to the point to kill his faithful men to obtain those Shards.

I meant the church before they were dethroned by the nobility/warlords. The early church that likely grew out of former servants, stewards, and squires of the Radiants. It's likely only the higher-ups would know of the location of these caches, and they would be the most likely members of the Vorin Hierarchy to be killed by the Sunmaker. If the "Skybreakers" have been operating uninterrupted for 2000 years since the Recreance, that's a lot of time for Nale to gather and hide as many shards as he could. I assume Heleran was a non-Surgebinding member of the "Skybreakers" similar to Szeth in Edgedancer, or the old man Lift sees guarding the door. I don't know how Nalan has convinced Highspren to keep bonding when all the others were not. Is it possible Nalan was somehow reawakening Skybreaker Shardblades to give his soldiers surges? 

Edited November 3, 2017 by thejopen27

[Calderis]

22 hours ago, thejopen27 said:

Hoid was able to easily find a random blade when he needed one to make sure no one asked questions about what happened to the blade Taln showed up to the gates with.

Hoid did not swap/steal the Honorblade. 

Quote

Questioner

At the very end of Words of Radiance, Dalinar touches a Shardblade and it screams at him. Shouldn't that particular Blade have been safe?

Brandon Sanderson

No it should not have. It's a clue that something has happened.

[...]

[This is] a question that the subtle reader should be asking. And there are other clues that something is wrong with what the story you've been told is.

Questioner

Because Option 2 is that it's unsafe to touch an honorblade, but there's no evidence of that.

Brandon Sanderson

There is no evidence of that. In fact there's much stronger evidence that something else is going on.

Questioner 2

Did Hoid switch out the blades?

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid did not switch out the blades, but good question.

 

[thejopen27]

23 hours ago, Calderis said:

Hoid did not swap/steal the Honorblade. 

 

because Taln still has his and Hoid just gave him an un-bonded one so no one would ask questions about what happened to the one he had when he arrived. 

[Calderis]

29 minutes ago, thejopen27 said:

because Taln still has his and Hoid just gave him an un-bonded one so no one would ask questions about what happened to the one he had when he arrived. 

Taln dropped his Blade, and it did not vanish. Those around assumed it was unbonded, but it did not Vanish because it's an Honorblade. 

Taln does not have it any longer. To still have it, it would have to have been dismissed and not picked up by another. Honorblades bond on touch. 

[thejopen27]

Where are you getting this info? 

[Yata]

20 minutes ago, thejopen27 said:

Where are you getting this info? 

About the Bond with touch or the "not vanish"?

Anyway are both by WoB. we know everything you Need to gain the Honorblades' Surgebinding is to have contact with them (physically or if not summoned, whatever they are kept).

And another WoB explains some mechanic differences between the Sprenblade and Honorblades. An Honorblade has to be' explicity dismissed by his holder while the Sprenblade works in the opposite way.

For example, if someone made Szeth faint while he was fighting with the Honorblade...The Blade will remain summoned

[Lightflame]

I feel like there are a bunch of hidden Blades scattered between people, but the majority of the Shardblades are held by one of the secret societies, so let's look at the ones we know and see how likely each is.

- Sons of Honor: Absolutely not. If Restares was sitting on 1000 or so Blades, Amaram wouldn't have needed to murder people to get a Shardblade.
- Diagramists: Also no. Taravangian could have been gathering up Blades, but the Shardblades went missing long ago, and the Diagram wasn't created until after Gavilar's death. These guys have only been around for a few years.
- Stone Shamans: On one hand, they have the Honorblades, so having the Shardblades isn't much more of a stretch. On the other hand, they have the Honorblades, so also having the Shardblades wouldn't be terribly exciting. As well, to gather the Shardblades, they'd need to be picking them up, and even if Shin culture is built on a lie, that feels like a little much.
- Skybreakers: Nale has been around for ages, and Helaran, who sought them out, shows up with a completely unrecorded Shard. It seems reasonable to believe that they have them, so I'll say they're the second most likely group to be holding the Shardblade horde.
- Ghostbloods: I can't really comment on them at the moment, since I don't really know what their goals are.
- Aimians: I think they're the most likely, since they're immortal and want the Knights Radiant to return. They're probably hiding a bunch of Shardblades on their island, and will pull them out for a big climactic moment.

[thejopen27]

53 minutes ago, Lightflame said:

- Diagramists: Also no. Taravangian could have been gathering up Blades, but the Shardblades went missing long ago, and the Diagram wasn't created until after Gavilar's death. These guys have only been around for a few years.

I wouldn't put it past Uber-Taravangian to have deduced where some blades are and to have recovered them. Graves, a member who is unimportant enough to not be given direct orders, has been given a shardblade and plate to lead operations in Alethkar. 

[Yata]

2 hours ago, Lightflame said:

- Skybreakers: Nale has been around for ages, and Helaran, who sought them out, shows up with a completely unrecorded Shard. It seems reasonable to believe that they have them, so I'll say they're the second most likely group to be holding the Shardblade horde.

Actually we don't know how old is the actual Skybreaker's organization. I had the feel it was recently re-founded but of course I could be wrong. Regardless they could have some Blade/Plate but I don't think they managed to get the main part.

2 hours ago, Lightflame said:

- Aimians: I think they're the most likely, since they're immortal and want the Knights Radiant to return. They're probably hiding a bunch of Shardblades on their island, and will pull them out for a big climactic moment.

Honestly this is an option I complete ignored and also if I am not sure about the likeliness....I like it a lot.

1 hour ago, thejopen27 said:

I wouldn't put it past Uber-Taravangian to have deduced where some blades are and to have recovered them. Graves, a member who is unimportant enough to not be given direct orders, has been given a shardblade and plate to lead operations in Alethkar. 

I mostly agree, Mr.T could have figuret the location but the main problem is still how recent this discovery is. Unless the Blades/Plates were left untouched for centuries...Mr.T also knowing where they are, will be uncapable to stole them from their actual keepers

[thejopen27]

9 hours ago, Yata said:

 mostly agree, Mr.T could have figured out the location but the main problem is still how recent this discovery is. Unless the Blades/Plates were left untouched for centuries...Mr.T also knowing where they are, will be incapable to steal them from their actual keepers

I doubt there is one big cash. I would guess they are scattered across Roshar and Taravangian wouldn't need to find them all, just a cache of several. 

[maxal]

On 8/29/2017 at 3:20 AM, Ciridae said:

I agree it's likely that some are lost, others hidden in caches or secretly bonded, but we don't know what the other orders did with their blades during the recreance. We only know for certain what two of the ten did with their blades, maybe others left theirs at the top of a mountain where they actually were covered by crem. IIRC we have confirmation that Adolin has an Edgedancer blade, we know that Stoneward and Windrunner blades should be in circulation. Do we know what orders the other known blades belong to? 

We have this:

• Oathbringer (Dalinar > Sadeas > ???): “Six feet long from tip to hilt … It was long and slightly curved, a handspan wide, with wavelike serrations near the hilt. It curved at the tip like a fisherman’s hook, and was wet with cold dew.” The Way of Kings (p. 202-203). “…curved, like a back arching, with a hooklike tip on the end matched by a sequence of jutting serrations by the crossguard.” Words of Radiance (p. 88).
• Sunraiser (Elhokar): “It was long and thin with a large crossguard, and was etched up the sides with the ten fundamental glyphs.” The Way of Kings (p. 203)
• Eshonai: “[It] was wicked and barbed, like flames frozen into metal.” The Way of Kings (p. 930)
• Szeth (Note: This is an Honorblade, not a true Shardblade): “His Shardblade was long and thin, edged on both sides, smaller than most others.” The Way of Kings (p. 25)
• Firestorm (Gavilar > Elhokar): “[It was] six feet long with a design along the blade like burning flames, a weapon of silvery metal that gleamed and almost seemed to glow.” The Way of Kings (p. 29)
• Helaran Davar (Shallan’s brother) > Amaram: “It was engraved and stylized, shaped like flames in motion.” The Way of Kings (p. 671) It is also described as having a white gemstone in the pommel—or at least, the stone flashes white. (p.706) It is also described as being “etched along its length” Words of Radiance (p. 160).
• Adolin: “Its surface was austerely smooth, long, sinuous like an eel, with ridges at the back like growing crystals. Shaped like a larger version of a standard longsword, it bore some resemblance to the enormous, two-handed broadswords he’d seen Horneaters wield.” Words of Radiance (pp. 219-220).
• Moash: “…a shimmering silvery Blade. Edged on both sides, a pattern of twisting vines ran up its center.” It has a heliodor in the pommel. Words of Radiance (p. 780, 782).

Looking at it, it seems many known Shardblades have flames embedded into them, one way or another. Thus, they must belong to same orders or close-to orders.

Blades with Flames: Eshonai, Gavilar/Elhokar, Helaran/Amaram

Blades with Hook: Oathbringer

Blades with Glyphs: Elhokar

Edgedancer Blade: Adolin

Blade with Wines but doesn't look at all like Adolin's: Moash. Could be another Edgedancer Blades or not.

So looks like we have Blades from at least four orders, maybe five. It is not impossible some orders are more readily found in Alethkar which would account for the high number of known Blades with flames. 

As for the missing Blades, well, maybe not all knights dropped their Shards on the ground for anyone to pick them up. It could be some buried them, hid them or threw them into the sea.

[thejopen27]

8 hours ago, maxal said:

We have this:

• Oathbringer (Dalinar > Sadeas > ???): “Six feet long from tip to hilt … It was long and slightly curved, a handspan wide, with wavelike serrations near the hilt. It curved at the tip like a fisherman’s hook, and was wet with cold dew.” The Way of Kings (p. 202-203). “…curved, like a back arching, with a hooklike tip on the end matched by a sequence of jutting serrations by the crossguard.” Words of Radiance (p. 88).
• Sunraiser (Elhokar): “It was long and thin with a large crossguard, and was etched up the sides with the ten fundamental glyphs.” The Way of Kings (p. 203)
• Eshonai: “[It] was wicked and barbed, like flames frozen into metal.” The Way of Kings (p. 930)
• Szeth (Note: This is an Honorblade, not a true Shardblade): “His Shardblade was long and thin, edged on both sides, smaller than most others.” The Way of Kings (p. 25)
• Firestorm (Gavilar > Elhokar): “[It was] six feet long with a design along the blade like burning flames, a weapon of silvery metal that gleamed and almost seemed to glow.” The Way of Kings (p. 29)
• Helaran Davar (Shallan’s brother) > Amaram: “It was engraved and stylized, shaped like flames in motion.” The Way of Kings (p. 671) It is also described as having a white gemstone in the pommel—or at least, the stone flashes white. (p.706) It is also described as being “etched along its length” Words of Radiance (p. 160).
• Adolin: “Its surface was austerely smooth, long, sinuous like an eel, with ridges at the back like growing crystals. Shaped like a larger version of a standard longsword, it bore some resemblance to the enormous, two-handed broadswords he’d seen Horneaters wield.” Words of Radiance (pp. 219-220).
• Moash: “…a shimmering silvery Blade. Edged on both sides, a pattern of twisting vines ran up its center.” It has a heliodor in the pommel. Words of Radiance (p. 780, 782).

Looking at it, it seems many known Shardblades have flames embedded into them, one way or another. Thus, they must belong to same orders or close-to orders.

Blades with Flames: Eshonai, Gavilar/Elhokar, Helaran/Amaram

Blades with Hook: Oathbringer

Blades with Glyphs: Elhokar

Edgedancer Blade: Adolin

Blade with Wines but doesn't look at all like Adolin's: Moash. Could be another Edgedancer Blades or not.

So looks like we have Blades from at least four orders, maybe five. It is not impossible some orders are more readily found in Alethkar which would account for the high number of known Blades with flames. 

As for the missing Blades, well, maybe not all knights dropped their Shards on the ground for anyone to pick them up. It could be some buried them, hid them or threw them into the sea.

It's surprising that none seem to be obviously Windrunner (possibly Oathbringer) or Stoneward (possibly Sunraiser) blades, since we know those are two orders that for sure gave up their blades. Alethkar seems to have several Dustbringer and Edgedancer blades.

[maxal]

1 hour ago, thejopen27 said:

It's surprising that none seem to be obviously Windrunner (possibly Oathbringer) or Stoneward (possibly Sunraiser) blades, since we know those are two orders that for sure gave up their blades. Alethkar seems to have several Dustbringer and Edgedancer blades.

I am thinking Oathbringer is a Stonewards Blade. Sunraiser is... something else. The flames Blades probably was Dustbringer. I cannot say if Moash's Blade is an Edgedancer Blade or not: it does not resemble Adolin's. The only element which may tie it to the Edgedancers is the vines on it. For some reason, Adolin's Blade is blue... as far as we know, it is the only Blade which has a distinctive color.

[thejopen27]

1 hour ago, maxal said:

I am thinking Oathbringer is a Stonewards Blade. Sunraiser is... something else. The flames Blades probably was Dustbringer. I cannot say if Moash's Blade is an Edgedancer Blade or not: it does not resemble Adolin's. The only element which may tie it to the Edgedancers is the vines on it. For some reason, Adolin's Blade is blue... as far as we know, it is the only Blade which has a distinctive color.

I thought I remembered another blade being described like Shallan's, with geometric patterns running along it.